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6:05 PM
 
@TomW WOW. I had a completely different idea of what that was
!!urban SILF
 
@RodrigoSilva silf Sandwich I'd Like To Fuck
 
mmmkay
 
s/sandwich/ship
I think is the way it goes
that is a fit-ass ship, is my point
 
Anyone of a clean Grid that works within ASP.NET Web Forms, or where you can build your own?
 
6:20 PM
Telerik probably have something
 
@TomW They're kind of a nightmare though.
 
never used, but I've heard the product is quality
no idea about the company
pain to licence?
 
Support is terrible, or something
idk
We use their ORM
 
@Greg - When you say "grid", what do you envision?
 
looks overly complicated, as all commercial stuff that by rights should be free always is
 
6:24 PM
@TravisJ A clean Grid View, with paging, sorting, two custom links to edit / delete based on the Id of that item?
 
In tabular format?
 
Yeah.
 
:(
Is it a requirement to be tabular?
 
Automatically pull data in and out from the database, like any other Grid View.
Depends...
 
I would highly recommend using placards.
 
6:28 PM
Does it work well with ASP.NET Web-Forms?
 
Yes. All you need is html, js, and data.
Does web-forms work with that?
 
@TravisJ Yeah, but it usually requires a data source.
 
1..a
a..2a
2a..3a
where a is the number of placards that fit per line. Each placard is a composed set of information populated by the row data. It can support pagination, sorting, etc. It is just a different style of displaying. Instead of `<table><tr><td></td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr>...</tr></table>` you would have a single div styled and a nested div which shows the composed cells instead of just here is the name of the field, here is the value of the field.
@Greg - Users don't want to have to deal with the naming of fields
It is just extra cruft that will either be misused or confusing.
 
....?
I understand it will clean the syntax, but how does that impact a user?
 
developer less likely to get it wrong and break the app in prod
 
6:37 PM
@TomW That makes sense, I was confused on how a user would see a difference. As they don't really see the names of those fields.
 
@Greg - It isn't composed. Composed data is easier to grok for users. I went through this with Cody last week. If you wish to use the tabular layout that is fine, it is still somewhat common to see (although it is on its way out). But in my opinionated opinion, placards are the modern solution.
@Greg - Look at this demo I made for a row of Cody's test data for example: jsfiddle.net/6pMZb/embedded/result
@Greg - It is possible to display the data without having to explicitly lay out the column name and the disconnected feeling of the columns.
 
@TravisJ That is pretty cool, for our users though it may not be ideal. I'll take a look at it though.
 
@Greg - It is just a simple example, for yours it would be more complex, but still I think there are a lot of benefits.
bbl lunch
 
I smell ulterior motives here
are we absolutely sure the trend away from tabular presentation is because it's more intuitive for the user, and not because laying out tables properly is a ballache for the developer?
 
I'm writing very horrible code right now.
Just so you know.
IT WORKS
I don't know whether to cry or set fire to my computer.
 
6:54 PM
lol
Set fire to your computer, then put it out with your tears.
 
It's Friday. You can't cry on Fridays. This is gonna be expensive...
 
Why not?
 
Fridays are good days
 
O
 
7:12 PM
AWWWWYISSSS
 
What is net neutrality?
It looks dumb
 
@Nathvi It basically means ISPs can't preferentially give some customers better internet. Or something
 
That's fucking stupid.
 
Why?
 
It's their service. They should be able to do what they want with it.
 
7:23 PM
You're disagreeing with seemingly 99% of the American populace.
 
Being well adjusted to a sick society is no good measure of health ;)
 
So you support ISPs and cable companies being able to control what's on the internet?
 
@TravisJ Yeah, I can see some benefit.
 
Gregg did you get that Textbox working?
 
7:31 PM
Comparing ISPs to shipping companies seems like a good analogy.
Ted Stevens was wrong, the internet is like a big truck
 
7:53 PM
 
It is all fine and dandy until you realize the word neutrality is just a mass media term. They chose it to make it seem appealing.
And by they, I mean Comcast, and Time Warner. Those two companies have a verbal agreement to not compete against each other and as a result essentially compose a monopoly on cable internet in the US.
 
@TravisJ You think that is a good approach?
 
Passing legislation allowing them to have full access to be able to limit the speed of specific sites or endpoints, or limit the DNS lookup table is pure bullshit.
@Greg - I am not very familiar with how webforms does data binding. Are you asking about the pagination approach?
 
@TravisJ Well, the pagination itself.
 
@Greg - There is nothing wrong with pagination, but more than likely if there were more than 100 results the user either did not know what they wanted or used too vague of a search term.
 
7:59 PM
Well, it looks like they have it automatically counting results and converting the position based on the int in that field.
 
@Greg - The code written is deprecated though. There should be using statements for connections and linq for the sql queries.
Basically you are going to have an int field the user can manipulate if they want. That is the starting point for skip. So the user skips to page 10 in the int, and you show 5 per view, dataSource.Skip(5*10).Take(5);
Or to use a more englishy description,
page = dataSource.Skip(pageNumber).Take(pageSize)
 
@TravisJ Yeah, I know it is depreciated. The example, what would be better LINQ wise?
 
the skip and take for example
One thing to consider for pagination. Skipping requires an order first. The order requires sorting. So the more items you skip, the further the database results must be sorted. Skipping 5 and taking 5 means that 10 items total were sorted. Skipping 5000 and taking 5 means that 5005 items were sorted and it will probably take a second or two at that point. Skipping 100000 items may become undesirable for that reason.
 
@TravisJ Yeah.
 
As a result of that phenomenon google will not allow you to paginate past page number 40.
So it is something that even large companies and complex software has to deal with as well.
"Sorry, Google does not serve more than 1000 results for any query. "
That is because if you asked google to show you the 10,000th result, it would take like 30 seconds and the whole veil of instant search would be lifted
 
8:09 PM
Yeah.
 
The thing about google which makes them awesome is that usually in the first 10 to 20 results, they had what you were looking for.
 
@TravisJ Yeah.
 
8:24 PM
a (hopefully) simple ASP.NET question: my gridviews have borders but not around the header cells. Adding HeaderStyle-BorderStyle="Solid" did nothing. Here is the Gridview code:
    <asp:GridView
            ID="gvReport"
            CellPadding="10"
            CellSpacing="10"
            RowStyle-BackColor="White"
            AlternatingRowStyle-BackColor="AliceBlue"
            HeaderStyle-BackColor="Blue"
            HeaderStyle-ForeColor="White"
            AutoGenerateColumns="true"
            runat="server">
            <AlternatingRowStyle BackColor="AliceBlue"></AlternatingRowStyle>
        </asp:GridView>
 
@Daи - From my googling, it would seem that in order to have a header style you need to include that as its own element nested in the gridview
<HeaderStyle BorderColor="black" BorderWidth="1">
</HeaderStyle>
 
Adding HeaderStyle-BorderColor="Black" does nothing also
 
@Daи - Do the back and fore color property settings work?
 
It should just be border-style.
@Daи You could cheat and add one of the templates to it.
 
@TravisJ not helping
@TravisJ yes
@Greg and I checked - nothing in my css stylesheet deals with tables or gridviews
 
8:29 PM
If you click the arrow in design mode, then click auto format it will allow you to choose several professional.
 
@Daи - Is it being overridden somewhere?
 
@TravisJ removing all styling and just going with plan gv brings border back to header
 
I am out of ideas :(
 
        <asp:GridView
            ID="gvReport"
            CellPadding="3"
            CellSpacing="3"
            AutoGenerateColumns="true"
            runat="server">
        </asp:GridView>
 
I blame the fact that the server is composing the markup.
 
8:32 PM
that brings header border back
it's just odd
@Greg ooh - now that works - wait no - no header border again when I print
@Greg so even that results in no header border
weird
 
Yeah, that is.
 
@Greg and I'm using the default ASP.NET application style
i.e. 0 design effort put forth
 
what is the place to put screenshots so I can show a screenshot?
 
@Daи I'm saying a professional Grid can be applied by simply choosing "Auto Format" and selecting a style.
 
@JoJo - imgur.com
 
8:46 PM
k ty, I will open account, and show pic I need advice
 
you don't need to make an account there
 
@TravisJ Guess what? The focus stealing issue is back
I think I'll join Satan's army so he can fix this
 
very cool, I like it
 
Step 1: take a screen shot
Step 2 (optional): open paint and paste screen shot, edit out sensitive data, copy image once done
Step 3: navigate to imgur.com
Step 4: ctrl+v
Step 5: ??
Step 6: profit
 
My question is how would I do this in .net or how would YOU do it. They did it with JavaScript and it does not work because if you remove #2 you end up with 1 3 4 5 etc.. They preloaded each DIV
Would this be done with a ListView or what kind of control(s)?
it would be dynamic, so if you removed # 2 it would reorder and 10 is the max you can have
 
9:04 PM
@Greg yes I tried that, it still did not have a header border when printing even when one appears to show in design mode
 
Is there anyway I can stream whatever comes out of speakers of an android phone to a mac?
 
oh well - no style whatsoever works too
 
over wifi
?
 
@DemCodeLines now that's an interesting problem - not a C# one, but an interesting problem
perhaps try asking in an Android or iOS/XCode chat room?
 
Would bluetooth work?
 
9:10 PM
Bluetooth doesn't send audio from phone to mac. :(
 
I seem to recall that windows PCs can act as an audio bluetooth receiver using built-in features
 
9:25 PM
@JoJo - I would do it like this: dotnetfiddle.net/DfPQXd
 
@TravisJ You know a way to put pagination into an asp.net repeater without all that crazy backend, because I've got five grids on a single page.
 
@Greg - No sorry. I try to avoid having server side create html when possible.
 
Hm... How do you do large Grid's then, but don't want excessive scrolling?
 
I guess that depends on what you define as excessive scrolling.
 
Well, if you have a Grid with a thousand records, that is alot of scrolling.
 
9:39 PM
Yes, that is too much scrolling. More than likely, the user did not need to see all 1000 records though. I have a few situations like that I have come across. I will offer the user a set of 20, 50, 100, or 250 results. 50 default. And if they select 250, it will display "Showing 250 results of 15000 total (consider narrowing your search)."
 
@TravisJ That is what I'd like to do.
 
@TravisJ Is there any scenario in which a Model class should implement INPC itself rather than having a ViewModel exposing it? I keep seeing different rules, some say it should never happen and I'm just reading an article in which the author does exactly this
 
@RodrigoSilva - What do you mean when you say "implement INPC"
 
I suppose if the Model class does nothing else than holding information, it might be ok to do it?
 
INotifyPropertyChange?
 
9:45 PM
I mean, instead of having the ViewModel exposing the Model properties, have the Model do it
Yes
 
@RodrigoSilva - For web or win?
 
WPF, win.
 
I am not as in touch with best practice for win. Might want to look that up instead of what my best guess would be.
 
I keep reading different stuff lol and everyone claims it's ok
I've also been told that the Model should always be expoed by a VM, but I can see that it should be ok to avoid this step if the Model does nothing else but holding data.
 
But, if you want my guess... I would have an application level cache that held sets of the Models themselves. The viewmodel would communicate with this cache through a service and the Model themselves would implement the change notifications.
 
9:48 PM
That does seem like a nice solution
 
I like to use a topdown approach when possible for design.
So
[ User Interface ]
talks to
[ Controller ]
talks to
[ Services ]
talks to
[ Data ]
UI has no clue about services, and Controller has no clue about data
 
So, the Services perform all the retrieving/sending logic (assuming a database interaction), and the Data is just sits there
 
Yup
 
just sits there*
 
Data is dumb, UI is shiny, Controller is in charge, and Services take orders.
5
 
10:02 PM
Hey all. Looking for more WPF DataGrid help. Is there a way to make only the last, empty row, editable?
 
That's a good analogy :P
But to clarify, Data holds no real data, it's just a representation, correct?
 
:)
Well, sometimes it does depending on what you are dealing with. But in the case where there is a database, the Data will hold the structure of the data including name and navigation access.
 
In this particular scenario there is no database access whatsoever, just reading a bunch of XML files, deserialize them, make a few changes and show them
 
It will be the responsibility of the DAL to actually populate the Data when there is a database involved or when population is involved. The DAL needs to know even less. It should just be manipulated by the Services in order to pull back an object graph which follows the convention in Data.
Data and DAL are kind of synonymous
 
Hm... So the Service should tell the DAL how it wants data to be formed by sending the Data class?
E.g: Service says: DAL, give me a Data instance from X server
 
10:07 PM
Yes
 
I see, I think I got it :P
Thank you
 
Oh, wait. By sending the data class?
 
Well, the type
Or did I get it wrong?
 
Well, just make sure the service isn't returning the domain entity. It should return some sort of custom mapped class or information.
 
I'm sorry, what do you mean?
 
10:12 PM
If you have a class in your Data called Performance, then the service would not contain a signature which returned Performance or a set of Performance. Instead, it would contain a signature which returned a customized subset of performance.
 
It should return a POCO class then?
Something just to send data around
 
Howdy people.
 
@RodrigoSilva - Correct
0/
 
\o/
 
10:14 PM
But why? What's the problem with returning Performance?
@SpencerRuport Hi :)
 
How are you guys doing these days?
I feel like I never just "hang out" here anymore. :(
 
Our lord Satan never lets us down
 
@RodrigoSilva - More than likely all of the data for Performance will not be needed. So sending back extra slows everything down.
@SpencerRuport - I am doing well. However, I feel like complexity is making progress very slow.
 
Complexity on what?
 
Automating production
 
10:17 PM
mmmm automation.
 
i feel like i'm making my non-complex stuff become complex and that's making my progress very slow
 
@TravisJ Hm... Thank you :)
 
automation has a way of doing that. "This one part will be easy!"
 
@NETscape - Have I already linked the architect astronaut article to you
@RodrigoSilva :D
 
yeah I think I read it
shoot it out again
 
10:18 PM
"Oh wait... there's about a billion variables I never considered."
 
A US billion or a non-US billion?
 
@SpencerRuport - Yeah, it is like, so close to finished now too. But now every decision has a ripple effect, so I can't just make them without examining the repercussions. For example, I need to introduce 3 new database tables which will facilitate 3 new many to many relationships. The implication is rather large so there needs to be all sorts of testing and versioning and stuffs.
 
Whichever is less clearly defined of course.
 
@RodrigoSilva - A US billion from today, or a US billion from yesteday?
 
10:20 PM
@TravisJ 42
 
isn't automation, like, a process. don't break it and you don't gotta fix it, no?
 
@TravisJ - How do you create database tables?
Through management studio or?
 
If 42 is the answer to the universe, life, and everything; then that means that 6.48074069841 is the root of the universe, life, and everything.
@SpencerRuport - Since I use hosted, bleh, databases I create them using a UI and I set them up with the UI as well.
 
So root_of(42) is the root of evil?
 
@TravisJ - gotcha. Does the hosted UI let you create them using sql scripts?
 
10:22 PM
I can see the light!
 
It is because evil is a part of everything.
@SpencerRuport - I could, but since the UI is online, the script has to meet a certain cap (which naturally it exceeds by like 42 too many characters)
 
ah
lame.
 
Yes =/
I would much rather just make 160 custom blade servers to have a massive striped RAID server farm! But that is kinda expensive :(
 
It also requires access to a building that is very close to a power station and that is capable of subscribing to either fios or one of those bundled 8-coax things.
 
10:25 PM
haha
good luck with that.
 
Yeah, I'll let you know how it goes :P
 
if you square the answer to the universe, life and everything...
 
As long as we're talking about crazy desires, I've been wanting to create a generalized language specifically for Web Based Enterprise Applications that will generate code in all the major languages/platforms/databases
 
epiphany. If I was a math teacher I would ask this question:
 
Write the whole thing in this language and select "PHP / MySQL" boom. App created.
 
10:27 PM
What is the answer to the universe, life, and everything? Square your final answer.
 
JK! "C# / SQL 2014"
 
@SpencerRuport - I would use that. Especially if it could map html/js/css to mobile (with event handling connected)
 
boom
@TravisJ - I'll let you know how it goes.
Maybe 10 years from now when I have time.
 
imagine if we had 12 more hours in a day, and we still had ~7 hours of sleep a night and only worked 8 hour days.
 
I like to imagine if I could just work 3 days a week.
 
10:33 PM
technology, i would imagine to advance more quickly.
 
Then I could, you know, live more than I work.
 
you already live more than you work.
assuming sleeping = living hah.
 
@SpencerRuport - 3 12 hour days
 
you know what I mean!
 
wake up at 5 am, get home at 7pm 3 days, and then the other 4 you do whatever you want
 
10:34 PM
yes.
 
I think I'd be okay with 3 13.33 hour days.
3 on, 4 off
then alternate, 4 on, 3 off
 
I was doing 4 10 hour days for a long time
 
So many other programmers I've talked to say they work 12 hour days regularly.
I can't imagine.
 
And then I fell off the wagon
 
I was doing like 5 12 hour days, then that got old when i realized it was basically draining my life
 
10:35 PM
Exactly.
And it's usually on a death march project anyway.
 
you honestly can't work 12 hour days... if you're working 12 hour days, you either suck or, i don't even know
 
I can imagine doing that kind of thing for a project I really believe in.
Temporarily.
 
I still don't know if I would do that, maybe if i had a cool team i worked with
 
But usually 12 hour days just mean the project is doomed.
 
exactly. working 12 hours days isn't going to save you, managers and myself didn't realize that... luckily I figured it out, unfortunately managers haven't
 
10:37 PM
Yeah. Hanselman has a good podcast about death marches.
 
image if instead of a chat room, we all just showed up in an open space office or factory and got to work like that.
the only way you could talk to people is if you met them in the middle of the office/factory floor
 
I don't think I'm very pleasant to work around. I'm loud. I admit it.
 
everyone else would sit in a desk in a circular fashion
 
I'd rather work from home where I won't bother anyone with my outbursts about how Visual Studio has crashed again. :P
 
the middle of the room would be a sound proof glass room
so everyone isn't laughing and talking looks ridiculous
whoa, i should be going home. I'm daydreaming to much about actually getting to work along side another developer.
imagine going into work with your head chopped off...
 
10:40 PM
lol
 
you'd probably die
 
Have a good weekend man.
 
but that's basically my life.
not only can i not yell at anyone, I can't talk programming to anyone either.
 
D:
That's what you have us for!
 
exactly. but you're not around ever so stop trying to take credit ;)
adios! have a good one.
 
11:16 PM
Tried xUnit, could not find [Theory] #annoying
 
#annoying? I think you #confused this #chat with #twitter?
 
I don't have twitter, never read it either. No idea why I decorate with hashtags sometimes. Used t do [x] before
[Fact] works [InlineData] & [Theory] does not, Assert does not have equal
Installed xunit.net from nuget
 
11:31 PM
quick question. does Distinct() need the list to be sorted? and does it use your classes IComparable method if defined or simply do a reference compare? ok that was two questions
 
no need for sorted, not sure but guess it uses equals | gethashcode
 
11:59 PM
thanks
 
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