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12:03 AM
it would be nice if they had something similar to the azure pricing calculator azure.microsoft.com/en-us/pricing/calculator/?scenario=full
 
12:24 AM
what does it mean when an invocationlist contains nulls?
saw it today when debugging event issues, did not look right
 
that seems pretty wrong ;)
are they all null?
 
about half of them were null
 
seems odd
 
the event fired but the subscriber did not react
in the unit tests there were never any nulls that I could see
and the tests passed.
prolly a massive dumb somewhere
 
.Invoke(null)
win :)
 
12:28 AM
fight null with null
 
haha
 
Maybe serialization is the culprit
will be some stepping tomorrow
will probably see things best not seen in the code.
Task save = new Task(new Action(() => _orderService.SaveOrderParametersAsync(parameters)));
save.Start();
Task.WaitAny(new Task[] { save });
^ gem i found in our code.
Think it is some kind of pattern cos it seems to have been copy pasted around.
nontrivial to write it dumber :)
 
got an in-person interview at the consulting place :)
 
12:44 AM
@JohanLarsson That's got a lot of anti patterns mixed in there ;)
 
@ReedCopsey halp
 
(and probably doesn't do what's expected, either :) )
 
I have a good chance of getting a new job... and a good chance that it is in Java :P
 
@Pheonixblade9 do you want it?
 
It's very likely to be more pay, more learning, and better benefits.
it's consulting
 
12:46 AM
working for the consulting firm, or consulting directly?
 
working for the consulting firm.
It's Slalom. They have a pretty good rep, I think.
 
and if it's enterprise oriented java, there's also the cost of extracting the bullet from your brain after the first couple of months to consider....
 
well, they're using Java, but they're also using stuff like AngularJS, so who knows :P
they're not a Java shop, I just think it's the most common thing they run into.
 
shrug They've got a good rep, but consulting firms are a very different animal to work for
 
yeah. I thought you might have something more intelligent than "nooooo, Javaaaaa" to add to the sitch.
 
12:49 AM
not really - only that it could be good or bad, and so much depends on your placement
which makes it tough to know whether you'll be happy there
but that's true of any consulting firm
 
true of any job. :)
but a good friend of mine works there and likes it a lot
honestly I'm just sick of not learning anything at my current job...
but yeah. thanks :)
 
@Pheonixblade9 - Aren't you rather familiar with deving android?
 
@TravisJ yep, I do consulting for it from time to time.
 
So you shouldn't have any problems in a Java environment
 
nope, I know Java just fine
you'll just hear cries of "Y U NO LINQ" frequently.
 
12:59 AM
I like coding in Java like I like hitch-hiking to work
But that is just me :P
 
I don't like the technology, but I like the opportunity and pay. :P
you never know, I might just learn something...
 
Yeah that last part seems nice :)
Just make sure you don't have to optimize anything to run faster.
It is 5, I am takin off
 
1:41 AM
@Mehrad If you come online, I will probably be able to check here again sometime tonight. Otherwise, I"ll talk to you tomorrow. My apologies for missing you over the weekend.
 
1:57 AM
@BradleyDotNET all good
problem already solved...
Thanks for getting back to me
 
 
2 hours later…
4:10 AM
OMG, switching from Eclipse (ADT) to Visual Studio is like jumping from hot sands to cool water
 
 
4 hours later…
8:10 AM
Well.. Eclipse is probably the worst IDE ever, so anything will be an improvement
 
 
2 hours later…
9:41 AM
@RoelvanUden: I totally agree! :)
Used that while studying at the university, fuck i hated it
 
9:53 AM
Yeah.. it has the merit of being open source, but damn, I can't like it.
 
10:08 AM
can we open and read the file contents from javascript?
 
@RoelvanUden: yep indeed.
however there's another IDE which is much better, Intellij
free for educational purposes
a friend of mine who is a java dev, praises it like it's god or something
 
@scheien IntelliJ (same as ReSharper) has a cult following yeah
@CuteChild Sure.
 
never tried it, but I guess anything is better than Eclipse :>
 
 
3 hours later…
12:50 PM
@JohanLarsson I still haven't played with your WPF controls, because time. :-(
 
Np, I'll just nag :)
I even nagged Reed for some QA yesterday.
The stuff I have on github that is prefixed with Gu is ~real~ stuff
 
Why Gu?
Is that your 'company'?
 
the name of our department
 
@JohanLarsson QA?
 
They have asked me to formally switch to become a programmer.
@RoelvanUden Quality A-something Assurance??
 
12:57 PM
nice
 
I think in some places they have people hired to click around trying to break things
 
@JohanLarsson Ah, right. Brain inactive here.
So have you decided to go through with it and become a real programmer? :P
 
1:25 PM
@JohanLarsson: working primarily with testing nowadays then? if so, what kind?
 
1:51 PM
I've a question which I'd like to ask here and not directly on SO
Imagine JSON has still not been invented and a guy starts to write code for serializing to it
I imagine him to have a task to accomplish and start to deSerialize a string from the app config
 
Uh. So what exactly are you asking?
 
he loose 2 hours, he uses classes like string, int, List, Array, Dictionary which are completely unrelated from the task he is doing. And class which are strongly related to the specific task (like DTO and so on)
@RoelvanUden Then he realize: "WTF my problem can be splitted in creating a general part of code (which I will call framework) and in a small part of code that will use that framework!!!
and he invents JSON
I think many software coding could benefit from splitting the problem this way
MVC is also a similar mental approach
 
Your question being, what?
 
the .NET framework
How do I ask other developers for this kind of effort?
how do I refer to this?
Single Responsability Principle? is not enough...
 
Modularization
 
1:58 PM
nice thought, let me check if it fits completely!
 
Or composability if you prefer that.
 
(my dream is to push other developers towards the same effort done by Microsoft and any other framework creator)
 
You should check out the node community. It's modularization heaven there.
That said, the .NET world is now moving in that direction too.
Including the CLR being modularized.
 
great! I think many deverlopers are a bit like: "simply solve the problem is wonderful" and I'm like.. no... simply solving the problem is not the best..
 
It depends on the context. Sometimes having a module is great, at other times it is simply not worth the effort. As a general rule, the moment you are starting to require something you did before, split it off and modularize it. It's IMHO a great balance between productivity and elegance.
 
2:05 PM
But I was thinking also another point..
 
When you generalize for everybody, you lose specificity. Really, we would all still be working in C++ if we wanted to plugin every part of the framework to build our applications :)
 
It needs to have some sort of return on investment rather than just being cool. You can split everything up, but if it isnt necessary, then you just waste a lot of time.
 
@scheien yes, I deeply agree
but lets work on a real example so I can show yoo my concernment
I've opened this question:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/27125222/framework-for-handling-serialization-in-keyvaluekeyvaluekeyvaluekeyvalue
 
That's one line for a really, really bad serialization format.
That's not worth a module.
 
@RoelvanUden yes, but the module already exist. It's enough to replace the serialization format with JSON
instead I wrote some unuseful code..
 
2:12 PM
Uhm.. no. If you have a value with a ; your entire thing just breaks down.
 
Ah, but actually I did all of this just to save some value in an appsetting @RoelvanUden
<add key="example" value="1:10;2:20;5:20;"/>
 
is there any programmable toast machine, coffee machine etc?
like supports apis?
 
@RoelvanUden: I think JSON was better for this task
 
I think you are over-complicating a trivial task.
 
@RoelvanUden: I've solved it in this way:
string[] idSportIdMarketList = appSettingValue.Split(';');

Dictionary<int, int> result = new Dictionary<int, int>();
foreach (string idSportIdMarket in idSportIdMarketList)
{
if (idSportIdMarket == "")
continue;

var idSportIdMarketSplitted = idSportIdMarket.Split(':');
if (idSportIdMarketSplitted.Length == 2)
{
int idSport = Convert.ToInt32(idSportIdMarketSplitted[0]);
int idMarket = Convert.ToInt32(idSportIdMarketSplitted[1]);

result.Add(idSport, idMarket);


}
}
return result;
but it took 1h and I don't like it so much.. do you think using JSON was a worst idea? @RoelvanUden
 
2:20 PM
var appSetting = "1:10;2:30";
var result = appSetting.Split(';')
    .Select(x => x.Split(':'))
    .ToDictionary(x => int.Parse(x[0]), x => int.Parse(x[1]));
There you go, from 1h to 1m. Like I said; trivial.
Don't over-complicate things: KISS. This problem was essentially one line.
 
@RoelvanUden nice
but one point..
I've starting to measure the timing in the IT
 
after every task I wonder when did my time go?
and - at my level of competence - I see a lot of time which is not specific to solving problem but to the syntax of the program.. null checkings and other stuffs
 
Experience will correct that.
 
My question is.. when do we start using things like automapping, MVC, bootstrap, json, angularJS, xml if we can simply manage to solve the problem?
mostly every acronym in the IT means: this stuff will hand complexity at your place so you can focus only on what is extremely specific to your business specification
Do you understand what I mean?
 
2:26 PM
You use those components to accelerate your problem solving capabilities and maintainability. They may have a learning curve, but once you've got it down it's so much easier to back back to code you wrote a few years ago and pick it up like it's nothing.
 
yes!!!
 
Also using wel known patterns like MVC makes it easier for other programmers in the team to understand your code, because they are familiar with the patterns
 
We spend most of our time reading code so familiarity with the context, setting, and way it was put together is indispensable. That's why those components are so great.
And that, team effort, convention over configuration, predictability, KISS, DRY.
 
but so is it correct to say that any line of code which is not business specific is an hint of a framework that should still be written?
@Rovak yes, I agree also on this point
 
No. Don't modularize everything. Frameworks are beasts, don't introduce all kinds of magical modules nobody has any clue about. Modularize what makes sense.
 
2:30 PM
@RoelvanUden I understand your concern.. I mean, as a developer I should not modularize everything.
But if I were Microsoft?
For example.. I think Linq is great
and often it's not needed to use classes for task like the one I proposed few minutes ago
and a lot of time is lost with mapping, DTO, database, showing data, null checking, conversion and so on..
 
Almost everything you mentioned can't be solved with modules.
 
On this point I see like a gap.. like if the actual patterns& frameworks from microsoft are requiring the developer to write tons of (ultraboring) code
 
What gap, specifically? Note that code can't ever be magic; it has to be predictable.
 
is there a name for this part of code? (mapping, dto, validation)
 
Sounds like the domain models stuff
Checkout Domain Driven Design
 
2:34 PM
Well, validation is everywhere. It's just that: validation.
 
@RoelvanUden true.. I'm just thinking with you (BTW compliments for the preparation)
 
3:03 PM
@RoelvanUden I was thinking also to another point
If someone would ask you to abstract and explain why the LINK solution you posted is effective how could you explain it?
I see the fact that it's concise as a consequence..
 
Uhm, you split on ;, then split the resulting on : and parse it into a dict.
Really not much explanation needed. It does exactly as it says.
 
maybe the main reason is that LINQ syntax is more functional than old c# syntax?
and my version is more procedural?
like: take A put it into B..
 
Pretty much. Your code would work in old-school .NET, mine would not.
 
Linq is >= 3.5
 
3:07 PM
yes
maybe Linq could be the future..
I mean.. var, dynamic, linq, IOC, mvc are more convention based
semantic
less procedural
 
The mix is convenient. If you want full-on Linq-like experience, F# is great.
(I don't really like full functional languages tho)
 
I haven't tried it.. I've tried prolog but it was messy..
do you think is it correct to say that the .NET world is moving towards less hard connections?
I don't remember the right word for saying this.. tight coupling maybe?
 
Towards inversion of control, or dependency injection, yeah, quite.
It comes with its own complexity of course :-)
 
@RoelvanUden yes.. I think they are a bit too complex...
 
That's because you appear to lack experience :-P
 
3:13 PM
yes, with that part for sure
Do u also use NodeJs?
is it "cool"?
 
user862319
nodejs is very cool.
 
I've read the homepage of the website but it's not very clear what it's for
is it like signalr?
for making ajax calls?
 
@Revious I use NodeJS for all personal projects. For work I use .NET.
 
@RoelvanUden how is it?
 
user862319
its typically used for hosting websites/API endpoints, but it can technically be used for anything.
 
3:20 PM
NodeJS is JavaScript on the server. It can do pretty much anything .NET can do, and works extremely well for CLIs, web servers, games, etc. It's amazing for IO related tasks and extremely simple. ;-)
 
@Bob is it a web server?
 
It can be a web server if you want it to be.
 
I got ultraconfused :P I thought something like AngularJS or JQuery
 
user862319
nah angularjs and jquery is what you would run on the client-side
 
user862319
nodejs could serve it to them
 
user862319
3:22 PM
or apache or iis
 
Exactly. It's not for in-browser use, it can be a server, some command line tool, etc.
 
user862319
I think some crazy guy ran nodejs through emscripten so you technically can run node.js in the browser...
 
lol.. but it's very strange..
it's not a development language
 
user862319
no its not
 
user862319
it uses javascript
 
3:23 PM
JavaScript is the language, NodeJS is the environment.
Just like C# is the language, and the .NET CLR is the environment.
 
user862319
var http = require('http');
var fs = require('fs');
var index = fs.readFileSync('index.html');

http.createServer(function (req, res) {
res.writeHead(200, {'Content-Type': 'text/plain'});
res.end(index);
}).listen(80);
 
user862319
that would be a simple webserver written in javascript that runs on node.js
 
Probably text/html :P
 
it's incredible...
 
user862319
indeed
 
user862319
3:26 PM
If you are unfamiliar with javascript and the way it does everything asynchronously it can be a bit of a learning curve though.
 
web developers started to conquer app developer's world :P
 
Web technologies hold the future. JS on the server, the browser, and your phone!
Oh and of course on the desktop too, harr harr.
 
user862319
I dont think I would classify javascript as a web technology anymore
 
@RoelvanUden but does it give real advantages compared to c#?
 
Cross platform? :)
 
user862319
3:27 PM
it is far too ubiquitous on the server and embedded devices (chromecast)
 
user862319
javascript's main advantage is the number of environments it can execute in with little to no modifications and the sheer number of developers who know how to work with it.
 
And the simplicity of the language (even tho it will confuse newbies for some time)
 
user862319
also a lot of nosql database engines (e.g. MongoDB) use javascript to store and communicate data.
 
user862319
so we have full web application stacks that are javascript from db->webserver->browser.
 
@Bob really???
 
user862319
3:30 PM
one language for the entire stack
 
Yeah, really.
 
but JS is supported?
I mean.. java is still the same as in 1997..
 
You write queries in JSON on MongoDB and have JS for map/reduce functions.
 
c# has linq, mvc, and so on and so on
 
OI! Java !== JavaScript
 
3:31 PM
I know, I know :P
 
user862319
ideally you would use some sort of ODM in node.js such as mongoose to handle that for you
 
ODM?
 
user862319
object document model
 
user862319
since mongodb is a document-based database, they call it ODM
 
@Revious JS has all of that, too, y'know. MVC frameworks, mappers, ODM/ORMs, Linq~like queries, etc.
 
user862319
3:32 PM
for a sql database its typically referred to as an ORM
 
@RoelvanUden :o
 
user862319
If you want a good example of how much stuff you can do with node.js and related technologies: github.com/pilwon/ultimate-seed
 
@Bob That is.. a lot of dependencies.
 
user862319
you dont have to use them
 
user862319
its included
 
3:34 PM
I prefer the DIY approach anyway :-P
 
they are using all this stuffs?(Angular, AngularUI, Barbeque, Bootstrap, Bower, Browserify, Docker, Express, Font Awesome, Grunt, Handlebars, jQuery, JSHint, Karma/Mocha, LESS/LESSHat, Livereload, Lodash/Underscore, Modernizr,
 
user862319
yeah its nice until you start writing your own Gruntfiles
 
I prefer to fine tune my own grunt, too. No problems there :-)
 
oh my god... developing is getting ultrahuge!!! :D
 
user862319
I just like this seed project because there are a lot of eyes on it and many edge cases and weird things have been figured out.
 
3:37 PM
@Bob but is it a source code of a website?
where can I see it running?
 
user862319
You would probably never use everything in that project for your own site, but if you learn about all of the components used you should be off to a really good start.
 
user862319
I recommend going through some stuff on MEAN stack and node.js on youtube
 
user862319
 
user862319
That's probably a good starting point.
 
3:40 PM
@RoelvanUden Corrupting the new guys?
 
user862319
:D
 
@MrDoom I wouldn't dare.
 
I have a question, is it possible to make the text next to a checkbox not clickable/checkable?
I can check off the checkbox but the area around the checkbox is also clickable
 
Don't make it part of the same element. Make it a label in Forms/WPF.
 
I am using ASP.NET MVC
don't make what part of the same element?
 
3:45 PM
In HTML? Don't make a label with a for attribute then.
In terms of helpers, don't use the LabelFor
 
hm ok I will check thank you!
 
@MrDoom :D
I will try to get deeper with it
now I'm curious on what MEAN is how can I google for it?
 
@Revious MongoExpressAngularNode (MEAN)
 
I think I've just discovered that in my previous company I was learning nothing :D
 
You learn most by playing around with technology IMHO.
In companies you usually do the same trick again and again.
 

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