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12:57 AM
@jakebird451 no...
 
@evan54 No what?
 
@jakebir
@jakebird451 no i don't mean panda3d
 
 
7 hours later…
8:07 AM
productive programming language?
 
moin moin
 
@ColinO'Coal so what's special in python, in a few words?
what can in do that php can't?
 
that are two questions ^^
 
yea...
 
special in python ... blocks without start and ending tags -> instead we are using 4 space indentation
 
8:13 AM
from what i've heard it's great for manipulating data
can it work with tabs instead of 4 spaces?
 
irritates language switcher really hard hehehe
tabs workssss ... but all recommend you to do not this bloody way
use 4 spaces
special in python is also, that we a very big/huge/exentsive library included
very convenient
 
yup.. really annoying (actually pressing 3 more times a button is kinda worse than having start-end blocks)
 
additionally extending a python installation with third party libraries is verry verry easy and convenient
 
ok, so... what can it do that php can't?
 
first there is the Python Package Index where most of all developers of third party products store their modules
and there exists very nice tools for installing, updating (and in one also: deleting) these python libraries from the central repository (pypi) into your python installation
what differs ... first: virtual environments
in python 3.3 included (and before, simply extendable using pypi), virtual environments allows you to handle the problem of multiple environments and dependencies very easy and comfortable
 
8:20 AM
i'm actually annoyed atm because this: print x, "-", puts a space after x's value and i don't want that
 
a big "plus" also is, that you don't need in lot's of cases a webserver (like apache, IIS, etc.)
there exists lot's of web-application frameworks, which comes out with a development server component 'out-of-the-box'
 
interesting
 
printis a writewith a line break
print("..."), with a comma is suppressing this
but whats your problem with the "write line" print?
print will be used for printing out information into the standard out stream
i.e. the console
if you want to print a combination of information, you can concat several inforamtions to the final output string and print them just in a easy way
 
String Formatting.
 
yea, was trying to understand a py script and thought about learning the lang, thougth that's a feature but was annoying me
so why do i have an extra space and how do i remove that?
 
8:27 AM
instead of the printstatement (or the print()) function, you can use directly the output stream
just simply import the sys module and access the stdoutstream
 
how do i get to the man of print and similar funcs?
 
Colin is making things difficult
 
well.. for print i don't need to import anythjing.
 
sys.stdout.write("a")
 
You can simply concat strings together before prining.
print "%s %s" % ('hello', 'world')
or
print "hello " + "world"
 
8:29 AM
You can in PHP too, but if he want's to know how it works in python ...
 
Specifically using
print "hello", "world"

is like doing two print functions but not newline between them.
 
aha!, thanks @InbarRose
 
Sorry for interrupting... anyone familiar with Python web development here?
 
@OlegsJeremejevs: most of all
 
Alright, loooong post incoming.
 
8:31 AM
 
can i concat a string with an integer with +?
 
Hi, I decided to switch to Python (from PHP) in web development and I found myself not wanting to use Django, because I heard that it has too much magic in it. That matters to me because I'm a programmer-perfectionist, coming from hardcore C world. Currently I think I gonna go with Pyramid, but that isn't very appealing, since its documentation and userbase are much smaller, and there aren't any big projects powered by it.
The best way to go would be to try both and see for myself, but, unfortunately, I'm in a situation where I really don't have time for this (even a couple of free days). Could someone, please, help me out with this decision? Maybe there is something third (i.e. Flask; though, it's a microframework and isn't very suitable for big projects)?
 
@kaᵠ No, but you can use string formatting.
 
@InbarRose i'm there but having a problem getting accustomed to the help
 
Thats not totaly right Inbar ... he can concat a string with an inter by convert/casting the integer into a string
 
8:33 AM
But then it would not be an integer
 
print("This is a int:" + str(1))
 
If he converts an int to a str then it is not an int
The question was if you can concat a str and an int with +
 
for printing purposes it should be ok
managed to get it done like so: print "%d%s" % (x, "-")
 
yes, for example. That would work fine.
 
:) ... that's what I thought @kaᵠ
 
8:35 AM
But you can write that as:
`print '%d-' % x`
 
and now: print str(y)+"-" looks nicer this way
how about casting?
true @InbarRose, nice
 
It is all covered on the docs, you can try the tutorials on this page: stackoverflow.com/tags/python/info
 
man.. py's docs suck (compared to php's) ... or i'm not accustomed to them
 
Not accustomed perhaps.
 
@OlegsJeremejevs: mostly the decision depends on what you want to do
 
8:38 AM
@ColinO'Coal In two words - I want to create a job board, from scratch.
 
@Inbar: therefore I said "not totaly" ;) ... strictly you are write with your declaration
@Olegs: use django ^^
 
@OlegsJeremejevs apply the KISS principle, a job board is basically a very simple app... just a CRUD to the bare bones
 
@ColinO'Coal That was easy :D But why?
 
@OlegsJeremejevs Python can be a very powerful language, if you get into it, and are intending to write a big project with it, you could even write everything by yourself. But the normal python method would be to use modules, currently - the most common module for web dev is django. Switching to python being your choice - these are your options.
 
also, if you for some reason don't like X.. move to the Y, and so on
 
8:41 AM
nothing to extend ... agree with Inbar
 
guys, how do i cast an int to a string?
 
str(your_int)
 
isn't that converting?
 
but I'm not sure whether it's a casting regarding other strictly typed languages like java or .net
in python (as also in php) you have no variable declarations with indication of the type/class
@Inbar: is pythons str(int) a casting or converting?
I'm really not sure, sorry
well ... finally it instanciates a new object
 
>>> x = 'a'
>>> type(x)
<type 'str'>
>>> x = 1
>>> type(x)
<type 'int'>

No casting.
 
8:45 AM
k
 
just assignment.
 
in php you cast by: (string) $x and you can convert like: "$x" or $x.''
 
when you use str(1) you are not casting the int 1 into a string, you are applying the str() function and getting the return value
 
factory method?
 
Python uses assignment for variables.
 
8:47 AM
@kaᵠ: there is no kind of casting in python like (classX) variableY
 
a
anyway seems py is a bit more strict than php
 
finally you can access all fields/attributes/methods of python object which are implemented directly or in any super-class
without casting
from my experience, it's a little bit more simplier than php
 
I recommend you at least read this basic blurb: stackoverflow.com/tags/python/info And if you are interested there are links there that will take you to what you need to know.
 
Well, guys, this isn't very helpful :) I did my research, I know what are my options; I want to use a framework, but I can't decide which one. Isn't Django going to be a pain for someone who likes explicit implementation of everything (no magic)?
 
I wouldn't call it "magic".
 
8:52 AM
@OlegsJeremejevs Look, I know Python, I am not a psychologist, make your own decision. If you want specific details I can help you. But I can not tell you what clothes to wear or what to use for your site.
 
@InbarRose looks ok, and I never had anything against py, as opposed to other trending langs
 
Was referring to @OlegsJeremejevs.
 
@Olages: Similar to other language where you are using a few third party libraries to creating (big) web application projects, in python you have a very well documented and ripened out framework with django.
If you say "magic", there is more magic in developing "ASPX MVVC" .NET or "Spring" Java applications than in Django,.
But Django was shipped with all neccessary stuff you need to develop a web application from top to bottom.
It includes the template engine for your web pages, formular module, control layer and also the persistent layer.
Other than Spring (Java) - where you also have to decide which ORM framework you want to use - or whether you want to use Server Faces instead of simple Server Pages ... Django made the decision for you an comes with a complete out-of-the-box bundle.
Yeah, of course, you can digress from the way and patch/extend the base bundle.
But it's not recommend.
 
9:09 AM
Thanks for your help. %hugereplysnip% I'll try Django.
 
@OlegsJeremejevs why not PHP since you know it best and switched from it...
?
 
@kaᵠ: Too messy and old, IMO. Jeff Atwood wrote a good article on this: codinghorror.com/blog/2012/06/the-php-singularity.html
 
@OlegsJeremejevs shortest path from A to B is the one you know best...
also If you're searching for something, eventually you're gonna find it (bugs, annoyances, etc) and sooner or later you're gonna see it everywhere
 
@kaᵠ: This is a personal preference talk :) I can't explain why I am so confident about this switch, but here is a scientific rationale: me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design
 
9:25 AM
hey.. i told you all of this because you said: "I'm in a situation where I really don't have time for this", so if you actually don't have time... think again, if you're choosy and picky then you have time!
 
@kaᵠ: Ever since I got a GPS a few years ago, I've been discovered many shorter paths between various As and Bs and some amazing scenery along the way
 
bumped into geocaching in you way @MattH ?
 
@kaᵠ: Two kids under 3, don't have time for geocaching at the moment. Got friends who are into it though (no kids yet)
 
@MattH thought the same a lot of time when i used the gps, no comment for the places i've seen, but some of the 'shortest' paths were darn long or difficult!
@MattH once we wanted to save time, gas and traffic and picked a 50km shorter road... bad idea... ended up using the same road as everyone else +100km as we had to torn back
 
@kaᵠ: All of life is a gamble, eh?
 
9:36 AM
@kaᵠ: So, if I spend all my free time doing something more exciting (like implementing computer vision algorithms) than trying out new web frameworks - that's it? I'm stuck with PHP? Forever?
 
sorry @OlegsJeremejevs you know best how to spend your time, and whatever anyone tells you about php, py, django is practically irrelevant, only you can decide and for that you need to know enough to compare
@MattH yeah:) ohh and those 100km were worth it for the places and the stories
 
10:17 AM
Hi all
 
@JonClements: Morning Jon
 
Morning morning
 
10:33 AM
Hi Jon
 
@OlegsJeremejevs: Your concerns are kind of vague so it's hard to know how to respond to them. The advantage of a small framework like Pyramids is that you have a chance to understand it thoroughly and manipulate it reliably. But the advantage of a "big" framework like Django is that it has a well-trodden path towards a "big" site.
If you know in the back of your mind that your site may eventually need to go into production, to scale to many users, to have a robust and configurable authentication framework, to have a test framework that knows how to build test database instances, to be able to evolve your database schema, to internationalize and translate your user interface, ...
to integrate with caching frameworks like memcached, and so on, then Django has a clear plan for how you're going to do each of these tasks. (And without, at least in in my opinion, unduly burdening the user who's just getting started.)
 
Plus it's generally easier to find Django developers than Pyramid developers...
Oh heya @ColinO'Coal
 
10:50 AM
Man... I'd never read this article on PHP http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/ before, I knew that it was awful; I had no idea that it was awful all the way down, I stopped reading when I got to `Variables`.
On the flip side, I don't feel at all bad about https://wiki.theory.org/YourLanguageSucks#Python_sucks_because: I don't think I should feel hypocritical...
Hmmm... Markdown links failure.. nevermind
 
11:06 AM
afternoon chaps
 
so guys, have to swith workplace .. see ya tomorrow
 
11:39 AM
@InbarRose: Thanks for the typo fixes.
Multitasking don't work.
It's like men trying to walk and chew gum at the same time..
 
@MartijnPieters It's dangerous typing - have to take a a moment to remember to keep breathing ;)
 
> It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to.
Now paraphrase that to fit Stack Overflow answering? :-P
I know, not what you meant, but it reminded me strongly of Tolkien, for some reason. :-)
 
Yeah - for some bizarre reason I thought of youtube.com/watch?v=EchC6p_zvdU - which concerns me somewhat... :P
 
11:55 AM
@JonClements ...
@MartijnPieters It's dangerous business, Frodo, joining SO. You start with a Question, and if you don't ask if right, there is no knowing how you might get closed.
 
It's a dangerous business, Jon, joining Stack Overflow. You start with one answer, and if you don't focus on one tag, there is no knowing what questions you might fancy answering!
Is it just me, or does this comment make no sense whatsoever?
Ok, but I will definitely wait comments on your reply! — ma_mama 2 mins ago
 
Let me think about it for a minute.
So, to elaborate what *I* think the logic in his comment is:

ma_mama is *definitely* going to wait for comments on a reply some person is supposed to make.
So.... yeah... it does make sense, but it is convoluted and illogical.
 
You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay on Stackoverflow, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
(or should that be question hole) ?
Stackoverflow is a system, Martijn. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Programmers, students, help vampires and Ninjas. The very minds of the people we are trying to help.
@MartijnPieters have you just had a birthday? :)
 
12:12 PM
I recently did indeed celebrate the passing of another year, yes. :-)
 
I thought your age looked different on your profile - many happy belated returns ;)
 
Those get refilled when empty.. I have a sweet tooth and they have the equipment to make more!
 
nice...
 
i still want some of them
to go with my ... well.. everything
 
@MartijnPieters well - think I've just voted on the plone awards
Tweeted anyway...
 
12:17 PM
Those were last years. :-P
 
I know... but better late than never ;)
 
so your vote is very much appreciated, but too late, I am afraid.
 
hey - it's a late birthday prezzie
;P
Can't say I didn't think of you ;)
 
A donation in your name has been made to The Human Fund.
The Human Fund: Money, For People™
 
12:24 PM
Trying to snow again...
 
You are trying to snow again?
I didn't know you could snow. Interesting skill! :-P
 
Oh yes - a man of many talents...
None of them useful... but all quite impressive ;)
 
Developing one's own ecological water cycle is quite difficult. But it's a very rewarding hobby. Entertain partygoers by forming a Cumulonimbus in your living room! Impress dates with double rainbows! Rain hail on your enemies!
 
I've met some people with pretty bad dandruff ...
 
lol
1
Q: Simple syntax for iterate 2 list with index

Des333Required to run through two lists. Is there a way to make it easier? for idx, ( l1, l2 ) in enumerate( zip( list1, list2 ) ):

 
12:34 PM
You mean like magic? – Inbar Rose 3 mins ago
 
Seems like a valid answer to that question would be, "No."
 
Tut tut - of course - zippodium runnosio!
 
@JonClements xD
 
I would say, "hire someone else to write the loop for you", but even that isn't simpler. Unless you live with a contractor and can just turn around in your chair and say, "hey Randy, make this for loop for me". But that's only one word shorter than the solution the OP has.
 
@Kevin -- Yeah, but I actually like the itertools.count solution that @jamylak posted. It doesn't involve the nested unpacking which is a nice.
 
12:44 PM
I'm having trouble understanding this comment: stackoverflow.com/questions/15804966/…
 
For me, it's pretty much a toss-up for readability. Unpacking is a bit ugly, but using a non-built-in function count requires a little bit of extra brainpower to recall or guess what it does.
@GarethRees, perhaps "there is no table [that calls] Source_info to [enforce a] foreign key". as in, "I don't have a Users table and your answer assumes I do"
 
The code in the original post contains the line user = models.ForeignKey(User) which implies the existence of a User model (and so a users table in the database). So I don't find that a plausible interpretation.
 
Yeah, it's a pretty incomprehensible comment then.
 
@JonClements Too Narrow?
 
12:58 PM
Well - no just thought I'd post an answer as Lev had - think mine's better, but anyway...
 
@JonClements' answer is approximately how I would do it. But Lev's answer is more likely to be comprehended by a beginner.
List comprehensions are like magic to newbies. You may as well have answered in Latin.
 
@JonClements: Why `rsplit`? (And not `split` or `partition`)
Personally I prefer the behaviour of `partition` and `rpartition` for this kind of thing.
 
Good point - I always forget about rpartition
I think mostly because if the delimiter doesn't exist, it should break... And I only want 2 elements, not 3 returned...
 
Did chat get markdown turned off recently?
 
markdown is disabled for multiline comments.
 
1:05 PM
Oh, that's a bit PHP isn't it?
 
I would choose from among split, partition, etc, whichever one correctly handles restaurant names that have a colon in them.
 
@JonClements: hate to say it but I think rsplit is really the wrong choice, the first delimiter should be the one to use as the key-value separator.
 
Really, why?
 
Yeah, multiline markdown would be really nice. As is, you can't include code blocks in your comments. They break, like this one:
def frob():
print "this code will not be properly indented"
What if the file has a line like, McDonald's 2: the return of McDonald's:85?
 
@JonClements rsplit(':',1) splits on the last occurrence of the delimiter in the string. Assuming the string is KEY+DELIMITER+VALUE it is more likely that the delimiter could occur in the value, not the key
but perhaps it's just a point of view thing
 
1:10 PM
I disagree. In this case, the key is a string, and the value is an integer. If the file is well-formed, then rsplit is preferable.
 
@Kevin: The value is a string as well, they just happen to be digits in the sample. Not sure what that has to do with it though
Oh wait.
I get you. The only values are numeric ratings.
Fair enough. rsplit or rpartition are the better choices
 
It's a fairly moot point, anyway. If there's a chance of mixing up your delimiters, you ought to use an unambiguous format. csv or something.
 
@Kevin: If I was drawing a Venn Diagram of formats, csv wouldn't be in the unambiguous area.
 
@tomaszbrue heya tomas
 
It's certainly something I wouldn't trust myself to edit by hand.
Better make the file machine-readable only. Use pickle and encrypt the result.
Apply ROT13 for good measure.
 
1:17 PM
@Kevin Twice eh?
 
But of course ;-)
 
I thought ROT13 was encryption? :P
heya @Wooble
 
hi
 
ROT13 on top of normal encryption will stop hobbyist cytologists that try every encryption method, but not every possible combination of two encryption methods.
For attackers with unlimited patience, however, it does nothing.
 
Umm, I love the fact that someone in PHP flagged one of their feeds as offensive... ;)
 
1:25 PM
Anybody use version control for their personal projects?
 
@Kevin Yes. Of course.
 
I'm looking for something better than just having a 0.9, 1.0, 1.1, etc folders
 
Quick scripts no... Mini websites/other personal projects - yes, of course ;)
 
It's something my fancy college education unhelpfully skipped over entirely.
 
I version control my .history file to catch perl one-liners. ok, not really.
@Kevin: git and hg are both nice.
 
1:26 PM
I use to use SVN, then moved to bzr, then still use that along with git
 
I used to use cvs, long after it was fashionable. I think I'm still an admin on the official CVS wiki.
 
I think my rule of thumb is, if it's something that'll take me less time to rewrite then remember where I put it, or even if I've already written it, then it doesn't get version controlled
 
I see three letter acronym (or TLA) names are fashionable here...
git, cvs, svn, bzr
hg bucks the trend. It's 30% faster to type! I'll google that one first, as its reward.
 
@Kevin It's also written in python!
OTOH, github is so awesome and git so ubiquitous that I've stopped using hg.
 
cvs is the only one of those that's an acronym.
 
1:30 PM
I figured git might be an actual word, but the other ones don't even have vowels.
 
They're abbreviations, but they aren't acronyms.
Pedantry is a way of life.
 
@Cairnarvon good observation ;)
 
bzr and hg are definitely new enough that they even unix people would have accepted longer command names :)
 
@Kevin Yes: version control is such a basic feature of software development that it would be horribly painful to try to work without it. With version control you don't need to be afraid of trying things out: if you break it, you can revert and try again.
 
I understand. I too am a pedant. Just not on the subject of abbreviations and acronyms. :-)
Yes, I want the ability to revert changes the way a man in the desert wants water.
 
1:32 PM
@mgilson wow, that question is so confusing. I don't think the OP even knows what he wants
 
Yeah. I apparently didn't get it.
 
I'm really happy Github made version control fashionable.
I almost never have to get up to find backups for people anymore.
 
Just now, for example, I discovered that a misconfigured Windows installer had broken my registry settings. So I reverted to the last good machine snapshot in VMWare Fusion and carried on. No need to spend hours trying to figure out how to fix the damage like I used to have to do.
 
Yup - I love VM's - especially for vulnerability testing
 
:)
Without saying anything I shouldn't be saying, but already saying too much, I once worked on a project for the DOD involving VM's and vulnerability testing / detection.
 
1:38 PM
@JonClements: There you go, an admission that your answer was better
 
VSS is also an acronym, although I usually prefer not to acknowledge the existence of such a thing.
 
Darcs is a recursive acronym. Once again Haskell is the only one that goes the extra mile.
 
The super duper pedantical reader may argue that cvs and VSS are not acronyms but initialisms, because you can't pronounce them as words like you would SCUBA or NATO.
To that hypothetical reader I would respond, stop reading so much Wikipedia, don't you have something more important to do?
 
Wikipedia used to make that distinction but explicitly doesn't anymore.
 
1:46 PM
@matth awww - ty ;)
 
@Kevin: pedantic is the adjectival form of pedant... Just saying
 
Actually Dictionary.com says initialisms are the ones pronounced as words. That's the first time I've seen that.
 
Now I wish that PEDANT was an acronym for something.
 
Seems to me that words are pretty meaningless if you can't agree on what they mean! I vote to strike initialism from the English corpus for all eternity.
 
@Kevin CVS is pronounceable, if you treat it as something engraved in stone and read the V as a U.
 
1:52 PM
@MattH I wish... Visual Source Safe... a version control thingy by Microsoft from years back...
 
@MartijnPieters Python: Extra Dangerous And Naughty Text
 
excuse my while I register "pydantic" on pypi.
I don't know what this module will do yet, but why should that stop me?
 
@Wooble: which pretty much conveys my reaction where I given the task to deal with a CVS system today..
 
@wooble - omg - I'm so tempted to see if that is free as a domain name - but I'm going to try not to, because if it is, I'd have to register it
 
@Wooble you already have a cool name, who cares what the module will do?! That's how it works, right?
 
1:55 PM
It should probably be a fork of pylint.
pydantic.com is, in fact, available. If only I had the motivation to blog about python, I'd snap it up in a second.
 
Million dollar idea: secede from current country and form a new one whose abbreviation is "IC". Acquire the .ic TLD and sell vanity sites to people.
You know you want www.pydant.ic...
 
la la la - didn't hear that - la la l aa
 
@Kevin If you have $10,000 and a time machine, IANA can hook you up.
 
If you have a time machine, anything is possible.
Acquiring 10k would be a doozy, for one.
 
Pydantic - Python Dynamic Anonymous Network Telecommunication In Cyberspace
ie. python tor.
<- genius
bows
 
2:01 PM
applauds
Wrong window... ;)
 
@MartijnPieters And that's why he earns the big bucks
 
So - lets do it, it would not take us long. :)
And... silence...
 
We're busy building a time machine... requires concentration you know...
 
Gah, need to get back to some Java coding... any suggestions what I should tell myself for motivation?
 
@pcalcao you might get hit by a bus, and won't have to code Java anymore? :)
 
2:13 PM
@pcalcao Write once, exploit anywhere? Pays the mortgage?
 
Those are actually helpful! Not yours @JonClements, your suggestion does solve the problem, but a tad bit too... permanently.
 
@pcalcao I was going to say "The sooner you start, the sooner you'll be finished", but I'm not sure that holds true for Java
 
@pcalcao sadly I was (and still am) at a loss as to what would be motivating...
 
How about this: do it or you can't pay rent this month.
 
Best motivator: Do it for her
 
2:24 PM
Elbereth?
 
It is a Simpson's reference, but also a widely applicable statement.
 
Not too busy at the moment - I suppose now's the time to do some more work on personal projects...
 
It is said that engraving Elbereth on the floor of a chat room will cause wicked trolls to be repelled.
 
Wow - the legends of chatrooms - is there a book I can dust off from somewhere explaining these?
 
It is an oral history, passed down from the gray-bearded elders, who thrived in the chaotic void before the birth of the web.
(Our era is also a chaotic void, but we have pictures of cats. So that's progress.)
 
2:32 PM
Yeah - there's an internet video cat festival later this year or something, WTF?
 
How did people share humorously captioned cat pictures before the Internet? I can't comprehend such a society.
 
@Kevin here: io9.com/5900334/…
 
Umm, must be something about cats - the Egyptians use to make statues and stuff, then we moved to photography and digital publishing of videos.... Maybe we're not actually the sentient species on this planet and the cats are actually in charge...
 
Cats had a much better grasp of English back then, apparently. Compare 1870's "What's delaying my dinner?" to 2007's "i can has cheezburger?"
 
Oh hang on - a cat's just jumped up on the window sill and is staring at me in the office....
 
2:38 PM
Must be a recent mutation.
Cats are interesting. Not many animals so obviously consider us inferior to themselves.
 
Cats
They have biological weapons and are using them.
 
Hi I want to create a plot of data that displays the data gradually, in other words at first it plots 1 point, then 2, then 3 and as time progresses you see the entire plot
 
Sounds great.
Go for it.
 
my question is should I use QGraphicsScene
 
What is stopping you?
 
2:50 PM
or just keep updating a plot
I have never used QGraphicsScene from the litle I read it says it's for games etc, so seems a bit of overkill
and before I bashed my head against the wall a million times trying things out I thought I'd ask for guidance
 
@evan54: What medium are you intending to display this in?
 
eee python Qt gui application?
does that make sense, not sure what you're asking, not web if that answers your question
 
@evan54: No, that does make sense
 
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