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12:13 AM
I have this code which always reaches else even if the "if statement is satisfied".
 
How do you know that the if statement is satisfied?
 
@zondo There is a print statement just before the if, showing the values that the if condition will evaluate.
 
Because of the error
 
how does pypy work? Do I need to write purely python and it would compile it faster?
 
@AbhishekBhatia in addition to printing the variables, try printing the if condition:
print (data_rec['username'] in users)
 
12:26 AM
^Please check this @PaulMcGuire
I can't comprehend to the slightest how does it reach in the else.
 
You don't by any chance have mixed spaces and tabs in your Python code, do you?
YOU DO!
I can see in the pastebin
Very subtle bug - convert everything to spaces or tabs, but don't mix
(my preference is spaces myself)
Never mix, never worry
 
there needs to be a good rhyme for that. Along the lines of beer before liquor, never been sicker.
 
@PaulMcGuire Thanks! That solved it.
Never came across this before.
 
@idjaw How about this: Tabs mixed with spaces: unhappy faces
5
 
that works, that works.
applauds
 
 
1 hour later…
1:45 AM
consider I create an api in flask and deploy using apache. How do I know which version it is executing?
 
Version of what?
 
python
 
Well you could simply execute import sys; print(sys.version)
 
cbg all
 
2:18 AM
@paul23 but it is a server right.
 
What would you say guys to a person who asks about Php over Python for simple informational websites?
 
Php over Python as in Python embedded in Php calls or just Php for web development over Python?
If the second I would mostly say, "cool, whatever floats your boat, dude - you know you can use both though, right?"
 
Thing is that this guy wants me to build a corporate website, and he told me to use php for it, I've built web apps under Python, but never a simple website, I'm not sure if tell him that Python would be better
And yeah, you're right, both can be used together
 
there are a lot of depends in that situation
 
hmm, have you build corporate websites under python?
I mean, there's not that much to do, most of the logic is a contact form, a quote form, stuff like that, an api to save to db, and that most of it
 
2:31 AM
like my job is analysis and tools like jupyter allow me to create simple static (or server-side) based reports and dashboards with tie-ins for using JavaScript for expanding points, menu drill-downs, and the like - so Python is useful when tied in to webdevelopment proper here. Though I could do the same with other methods, even C#/ASP.Net and have for other reasons - depends on the need
dude, I've built projects in Perl/CGI/Template::Toolkit (if your old enough to remember those tools)
 
well, I'll try out python just for fun with a simple website
 
 
2 hours later…
4:41 AM
Im trying to understand the use of futures in pythons new perty 3.5 async module
anyone have experience with those?
 
5:24 AM
cbg
@feniixx no one should build a simple website with php either...
 
5:48 AM
CBG all.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:10 AM
@feniixx if it's simple on the server side, consider using a static site generator like Pelican, and just expose logic through javascript to some endpoints. It's quite a cool, different way of doing things. Or you can do a standard db site in Python as well.
 
user559633
7:25 AM
i find it amusing that every programming book decides it needs to explain generally what computers are and what programming languages do
 
It's so they can claim they help beginners, however briefly, and thus widen their market. "The internet is basically a series of tubes. Now, on to multicasting!"
 
user559633
@HackinGuy because c++ does name mangling at compilation time, Paul McGuire's advice is spot on -- use the FFI to C via "extern C" to define a predictable name
 
user559633
#include <iostream>
// e.g. something like this
class Hi{
public:
  void example(){ std:: cout << "hi hackinguy" << std::endl; }
};
//this is what you need to do
extern "C"{
  Hi* Hi_new(){ return new Hi(); }
}

  void Hi_example(Hi* x){ x->example(); }
}
 
@tristan Not every book ... For example Eloquent Ruby doesn't.
 
user559633
@Carpetsmoker Which is weird because a Ruby book should say "hey, welcome to the sad, sick world of programming"
 
user559633
7:34 AM
"you're going to hate it here"
 
:-) Well, in this case its intended audience is people who already know how to program in other languages, so they've had the introduction
 
user559633
That's fair. I wasn't trying to diminish Ruby, just more that the type of person to pick up a specific book on C is probably a little more familiar with the concept of programming than someone going for Ruby/JS/Python
 
7:48 AM
I am making flask server on ubuntu, but it always runs system python instead anaconda's one.
Though the anaconda one in path.
 
user559633
Are you using a virtualenv @AbhishekBhatia
 
user559633
Use a virtualenv. pyvenv in python 3, virtualenv for python 2.
 
Okay I should I use virtualenv. How does that relate to this problem?
 
user559633
Read about virtualenvs.
 
7:52 AM
i don't get it, I just need tell the path to use anaconda's python. What has a virtual environment got to do with it?
 
user559633
@AbhishekBhatia Cool, so if you want to not read what virtualenvs do or how they help you, but you know about PATHs, then set up your path and pythonpath.
 
The point where I am confused is that path is correct. Also, I have specified shebang on each .py to direct to anaconda.
 
user559633
garlic
 
user559633
@AbhishekBhatia and that's a recent question. read the room rules. this is not your first time in here asking people to debug your local environment and disregarding advice
 
8:09 AM
Morning.
 
user559633
mornin
 
Sry, I know it is new. Just thought of referring to provide more info. I am not sure about debugging though I haven't used flask/apache before. I think I need to mention path somewhere else as well.
 
Morning all
 
user559633
@AbhishekBhatia You knew it was against the room rules and you posted it anyway? Making sure I understand.
 
user559633
Morning JRS
 
8:14 AM
sry! I was asking a general question related to my specific question posted. Later provide more info. Bye thanks.
 
I'm glad you think enough of us to type "sry" instead of "Sorry" when apologising.
 
user559633
Cool, so it wasn't just me being a jerk
 
No in fact I thought you were remarkably restrained.
I would not have been so.
 
cbg
sry I'm a Finn
 
user559633
@AnttiHaapala It's nice that you apologize for it, but we don't hold it against you. (edit: too much, anyway)
 
8:25 AM
well I was thinking of the term "extenuating circumstances"
 
user559633
i'm an american and i haven't once tried to spread democracy by force in the room, so i guess it's possible to overcome genetic programming :P
 
I'm British and I haven't tried to make an empire of the room...with me at the top...as an RO......
 
I am facing a similar issue to this stackoverflow.com/questions/28567498/… . Is there any other way to fix it without using fabric?
 
I'm Dutch and I haven't tried to trade with anyone in the room yet..
What's wrong with me?
 
Some guy asked in comments that same thing, but there isn't a reply yet.
 
8:39 AM
"I'm facing a similar issue which I won't go into detail about, please solve it for me but not by using this specific technology"
 
user559633
Huh. So all we need to do is establish a trade route with Margin and he'll stop dominating the Python tag
 
@Ffisegydd haha. It's exactly the same thing.
I did a ` sudo chmod 777 *` in the folder contaning *.py to fix any permission issue. But doesn't work.
 
user559633
hahahaha
 
@tristan not sure if you intentionally did so, but "Margin" makes me feel sidelined..
 
user559633
8:45 AM
@MartijnPieters :/ sorry, i thought you found it amusing
 
@Martijn welp. Better not mention...

Martian Pieters...

Nov 23 '15 at 20:42, 44 minutes total – 13 messages, 7 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked Nov 23 '15 at 21:27 by Ffisegydd

Nice "sidelined" pun btw.
 
user559633
Oh, I missed the pun in my worry that I was being unintentionally offensive
 
Hehe, thanks for reminding me. @tristan, I had forgotten about that user misspelling my name that way.
 
user559633
No worries :) Learning to spell your name and not transposing the 'i' and 'j' was the first rite of passage for the room up until you became a mod and stopped spending time in here.
 
It was one of the 77 Tests.
 
user559633
8:50 AM
As someone on the 75th test....and now down to one kidney...I fear for tests 76 and 77.
 
Test 48 was correctly pronouncing "Ffisegydd" without biting your own tongue off.
 
user559633
Fizzygood. Nailed it.
 
Sorry, too many things to pay attention too; this room is not the only thing seeing a drop. :-/
 
user559633
No need to be sorry -- I hope everything is good :)
 
It is, but boy is it busy :-)
 
user559633
8:52 AM
rite of passage ~20 is laughing at your computer screen, having your significant other ask what's up, and being able to respond "python room" without receiving any follow up questions
 
Oh yeah, that occurs more than I'm comfortable to admit.
RoP ~34 is having your significant other hear the chat ping when someone @s you and coming to tell you "Someone from the Python room wants you."
 
user559633
Oh, weird, my girlfriend just says "fizzy needs you"
 
Anonymous
Does anyone have an idea how to run a set of independent python scripts consecutively, as in one script after the other, but on the condition that script2 runs after the success of script1 .. and so on...
 
Anonymous
Aside from nohub/cron I don't know how to do this.
 
0
Q: Removes non-vegetarian foods from a list of foods. Uses a recursive algorithm

A.Adef veggie_r_ip(foods): """ ------------------------------ Removes non-vegetarian foods from a list of foods. Uses a recursive algorithm. Use: veggie_r_ip(foods) ------------------------------ Preconditions: foods - a list of Food objects (list of F...

syntax error? :D
 
user559633
9:07 AM
Asking us to explain his homework assignment: bohr.wlu.ca/cp164/asgns/asgn07.php?d=2016-03-04
 
"PyDev module"
 
if I want data to appear in a query string - is it something that I would use a flask function for...or urllib (as per: stackoverflow.com/questions/2506379/…)
to clarify
I keep googling 'how to add/create query string using flask'
 
@Sean what do you want to do
 
I think I'm thinking about this incorrectly
 
user559633
@Sean What are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to make a request with query params or receive a request?
 
9:17 AM
user submits some data using a form
 
... yes
 
this data is added to url as a query string
 
user559633
Type everything out and explain what you one to do on one line please.
 
then I use that data via request.args.get('name')
 
... yes, if <form method=get>
 
9:18 AM
@tristan understood, sorry
 
user559633
@Sean It's okay, let's start over.
 
That's now 8 lines without any hint to what is the actual problem :D
 
user559633
You want to receive a request in Flask that has query params. Please explain where you're stuck and link to a gist or pastebin of the code you have so far.
 
okay, I'll think for a moment, and put it in one line
 
user559633
Thanks
 
9:20 AM
 
user559633
using nltk and wordnet, is there an efficient (non-O(n^2)) way to find a shared hypernym between two target terms? i'm currently doing a for x in term_1_synsets: for y in term_2_synsets: x.path_similarity(y). while my existing setup works, i'm crawling over non-trivial corpora and my modal depth to a root entity is 8, so it adds up
 
Next message determines my role in the sopython community team.
or shall we have a committee to decide that?
 
user559633
What are you asking?
 
No committee - decide your own role?
 
Just like that?
I will have no such thing.
 
user559633
9:28 AM
Non-RO semi-regular who isn't a problem user. That's your room role.
 
RO?
 
user559633
Room owner.
 
I will be forever known as "Non-RO semi-regular who isn't a problem user. That's your room role.
"
 
user559633
Are you filling out a form or something?
 
user559633
9:29 AM
Oh, teams? I put in "1995 Seattle Supersonics NBA All-Star Power Forward Shawn 'Reign Man' Kemp!!!!"
 
That is a fine title.
 
user559633
Don't overthink it. The teams feature isn't doing anything and filling in that textfield is maybe the least important thing you'll do today.
 
Or maybe you're just saying that to have the best title.
 
I'm writing a basic flask website. I would like the user to be able to submit data (e.g. their name) and for that data to be added to the query string of the url that is returned after the submit. How do I 'create/add' a query string to a url? is it something that I would achieve through flask? or something that I would achieve through urllib/urlparse? (as per: stackoverflow.com/questions/2506379/…) <hopefully more clear...
 
It seems fair that your picture is one of a snake!
Alright, I have chose a title. It is befitting my status.
A fine title.
Good day all of you.
 
9:38 AM
Ooh, give me a role @tristan, give me a role claps excitedly ;)
 
I think I need to read about how flask handles the response
 
cbg
I just did this ... alias python=python3
 
user559633
@JRichardSnape let me think on this
 
user559633
back in a bit
 
Two can play at that game, @GLaDOS
"Role cannot be longer than 40 characters"? Where's the issue tracker?!!!!
I see it's OK to be a piece of furniture - congrats, @GLaDOS
 
9:57 AM
good morning
i am missing a python module, and when i search for it, the internet turns up nothing, i try pip and simply the name, also yields nothing.. what is my course of action
 
@tristan Supersonics... triggered
Still salty about team moved to Oklahoma.
Anyway, hi! o/
 
10:18 AM
I can't imagine import sqlite3 throwing ImportError: No module named '_sqlite3'
 
user559633
@RajaSimon please, too much detail
 
here what I did.. I Downloaded python 3.5 and installed it and added "alias python=python3" "alias pip=pip3" into ~/.bashrc after that my django project throwing error
django.core.exceptions.ImproperlyConfigured: Error loading either pysqlite2 or sqlite3 modules (tried in that order): No module named '_sqlite3'
so import sqlite3 gives above error ..
 
user559633
your python path is probably looking for python2 libs.
 
so how to fix it... ?
 
user559633
follow an official guide on installing python3. docs.python.org/3.5/using/index.html
 
10:38 AM
@tristan you've turned into a snake!!!!?
 
user559633
yeah, a witch turned me into one and i'm waiting to get better
 
@tristan hae I just reinstall using ./configure --enable-loadable-sqlite-extensions && make && make install and now it's better ...
 
Darn those witches hey? Oooo... I see the sopython community team is joint 2nd in membership size - awesome
 
wow , kicked for a word :)
 
user559633
10:47 AM
@hmmmbob respect the room culture or don't come about.
 
"how to install the module in question ?"
 
Just follow the instructions
 
where are those?
 
user559633
on google.
 
Can I direct you to the following rule: If you have posted a question on the main site and a significant amount of time has passed without receiving a satisfying answer, then you can discuss your question in the room.
 
10:50 AM
you can
 
user559633
@hmmmbob Wow, and you broke the other rule on spamming here for help on recently asked questions. You have burned up 100% of free good will.
 
Umm... when did teams get the "history" option?
 
It's not a bug when a cable is resting on the downarrow key
 
user559633
@RobertGrant thanks for pointing out that he was abrasively ignoring another room rule.
 
user559633
Even though the "don't link to a recently asked question" isn't my favorite, it really serves a purpose sometimes. I'd like it more if it was "if you are asking about a recently posted question, include when asking the room"
 
user559633
10:56 AM
stackoverflow.com/questions/35792910/… off-topic/asking for offsite resource/library
 
user559633
it took me literally 15 seconds on google to find the source of that file, and even worse, i'm nearly positive it's linked to in the tutorial the user is following
 
user559633
11:29 AM
disqus sucks so bad for getting/giving feedback on blog posts. all i wanted to do was post a "thank you for writing this" on a blog, but that doesn't work, and now i'm staring at some social network garbage
 
user559633
 
user559633
great, so now they have the email address i use for spam, yet i still can't post the "thank you" of which was the sole reason i signed up. no one benefits.
 
I also don't like that Discourse that much
 
user559633
i'm resisting the urge to roll by own for a static site. if you're not trying to monetize it with social integration and user funnel nonsense, it's a really easy thing to write.
 
Yeah it's a cool thing to do I think
 
11:39 AM
tried to engage @hmmmbob in a private room, but got no response so left a few comments and departed
 
@holdenweb Chat invites can take a while to reach the inbox - so there's a possibility they haven't even seen it yet
 
user559633
or it's another abandoned low-quality question
 
is there unicode character for sigh
 
user559633
lol Antti
 
user559633
11:49 AM
"i noticed you're the maintainer of the python-levenshtein module and i've been meaning to ask you something: sometimes when i overload my dishwasher, it makes a clicking sound during the soak cycle."
 
Could anyone help me with requests.Sessions() and Multiprocessing.Pool -> I can't figure out a way to associate one process with one session so that I don't open thousands and thousands of sockets each time (after a few minutes I exhaust my open sockets)
 
@JonClements Fair enough. The room's still there
 
@holdenweb how's the CTO'ing going?
 
Interesting. Team morale and overall performance seems to be going up. Currently paying back a lot of technical debt on the deployment side to ensure we can keep a green master branch and deploy from it whenever needed
Still haven't written much code, but a lot of the early issues were always bound to be management-related.
Can't remember enjoying work this much, or being this busy, for a good long while
 
@holdenweb writing code is always the easiest bit - pleased to hear it's going well :)
 
user559633
11:58 AM
@holdenweb Oh, that's great. I'm very happy for you
 
user559633
being busy and happy == the best
 
Yeah, actually seeing joined-up thinking from the devs now, with questions like "isn't that a bad idea becasue down the road X will trip us up?"
We are due to deliver a prototype on 24 March, after which I start a week's holiday - thought I'd show my confidence in the team
 
Also a great motivator to ensure delivery is made for the due date :)
 
great news from my 1 work...
I need to start maintaining a PHP project.
that and of course continue debugging javascript with IE11
 
@Antti who've you peeved off at work?
 
12:03 PM
no one, I am just stupid enough to sign a contract
got 50 % raise though
so I guess that means I earn as much as a janitor at Facebook now.
 
user559633
EU pay is just low.
 
Thankfully the taxes are also low
Oh, wait.
 
well my family is still not a net payer :D
 
user559633
When I was looking (at jobs in the EU) it seemed like there was a distinct underpaying of technical/hard fields and maybe too much being paid to simple management and non-technical roles.
 
user559633
e.g. a PM shouldn't be getting paid more than a non-junior developer
 
12:07 PM
indeed
hear hear
 
Agreed, especially if you mean prime minister
 
user559633
how prime is said minister?
 
He's Optimus Prime Minister
 
user559633
Oh, yeah, you should probably pay him until the oil runs dry.
 
@tristan they lie to everyone in Finland that in Finland there is no hierarchy.
I guess because PMs does not have any power whatsoever here, they need to be compensated for it.
 
12:11 PM
Lol who wouldn't want hierarchy?
 
user559633
@AnttiHaapala that's adorable. if you believe there's no hierarchy, you're so near the bottom of the hierarchy that you can't perceive the slope
 
Unless everything difficult's been done, you need to reward people for doing difficult stuff
 
user559633
"we have a flat org structure. see you in a year for cost of living raise negotiations"
 
the hierarchy in Finland is so different. In Finland you can complain to ministers, MEPs, city councillors, the president. But not the vice CEO of a SME you're working at.
 
user559633
@RobertGrant you can reward people with increased responsibilities/pay/perks without enforcing a structure, but the "no hierarchy" thing only works until someone discovers a pokey-stick, starts slowing down the group, or resources become scarce
 
12:15 PM
Yeah that's it - if there's no hierarchy, who's deciding who gets what reward?
 
user559633
you should probably stop asking questions before a startup crowdfunds a drone to use to strike you
 
@AnttiHaapala That makes sense to me. The people holding political office are there to help protect the people's rights. If they aren't doing it right, I think it makes perfect sense to complain. As for the vice CEO, he holds your cash belt; it wouldn't be very smart to complain to him.
 
whaddup people
 
Ulp. Founder just told me our first alpha user is likely to a a huge multinational bank ...
No pressure there, then
Glad we've been making evidence-based estimates for the last six weeks
 
12:29 PM
Done.
 
user559633
@holdenweb Evidence-based estimates for developer hours or for performance?
 
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/35795950/modify-bitfield-in-the-p‌​ython-libtorrent-client
 
We estimate in story points, and measure the # of story points we achieve each sprint
 
user559633
Are you estimating on complexity or developer-time?
 
user559633
Or both, separately
 
user559633
12:31 PM
also, hi idjaw. doing work before work :) how are you?
 
So the team velocity is evidence based. Estimates are based on complexity, and we size using standard scrum scoring, which seems to work well as a sort if Delphic polling technique
 
@tristan doing work before work, as well, actually.
 
And I've just told my Python devs that source lines should be <79 lines but they are allowed to go up to 99 where to do otherwise would (in their subjective judgment) compromise readability
 
-1
Q: UnicodeEncodeError on reading tags from html data

user3050590I am trying to read a html file on my disk. I am using BeautifulSoup to work with the tags in it. My file can be downloaded here . I am getting this unicode error when trying to print the tags. I am not even able to store the tags in another file. : Traceback (most recent call last): File "C...

 
Seemed like a good compromise between adherence to mindless rules and total relresentational anarchy
 
12:34 PM
do we have official dupe for the charmap codec on windows?
 
user559633
@holdenweb As someone that's been working on a '2' for a week, I'm cemented in my view of "complexity estimates bear no relation to time-hours"
 
hands @tristan a laxative
 
user559633
Were they going hog-wild on line-length before? 99 is pretty short for anything non-trivial with descriptive var names
 
user559633
@RobertGrant Just because a task isn't complex doesn't mean it's not absurdly time consuming.
 
user559633
e.g. painting a house
 
12:36 PM
@tristan how was that "2" arrived at?
 
user559633
@holdenweb that i estimated it as a 1 because it's a dead-simple task, someone bumped it to a 2. the specific task is just re-writing settings/config, which is trivially simple, but time-consuming to implement
 
@tristan I can't work out if this is you playing along or not :)
 
When we size issues, everyone in the team votes, and we re-vote after explanations from the highest- and lowest-voting members until we converge(-ish)
 
user559633
finished last night, but it was one dispatching function performing basic logic, but ten thousand lines of "find var, decide what should be default, put the rest into yaml, search for usages"
 
user559633
@RobertGrant lol just got it
 
12:40 PM
yeah, that's pretty much how we poker plan as well. But we never bring time in to the question. If we have a task that involves overlaying configs across different systems, that task is a 2, but that task is going to take a hell of a long time.
 
Do you work as part of a team - or, should I say, are there other team members in your organization? I feel it's good to get as broad a set of inputs as possible, and discourage my devs from saying "You just have to ..." or "All it needs is ..."
 
user559633
I work as part of a team, yes, but if estimating on complexity, it's rightly very close to the bottom as it was data-entry for 90% of the work.
 
We've never used time at all as an estimator. Just story points and observed velocity. We haven't discussed the complexity or time content of a story point at all - how would that help?
 
user559633
Because if you're actually approaching a deadline, having the datapoint of "this is simple, but is going to take a piggish amount of time" would be very useful.
 
That means that low-complexity tasks with lots of grunt editing will tend to get higher estimates. We are just roughly comparing the "nastiness" of the task with others we have done before
 
12:43 PM
We need a canonical target for UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode ... maps to <undefined>
6
 
user559633
If you're going back and saying "whoa, tristan usually does 40 points a week, why did he do 2 points that week? oh yeah, time consuming but easy", then you're already doing that in an inelegant way.
 
@tristan our stories get included according to the value the business perceives in their implementation. And we don't record individual velocities, only team velocities
 
user559633
Oh, if you're comparing "nastiness," then you're already doing a "complexity x crappiness"
 
user559633
Yeah, so the story I just put away is very high business value, but also something i could do with a concussion
 
@tristan like I say, it's never been discussed. We encourage the devs to use their intuition about the amount of work involved in a story/task.
@tristan So why didn't you give yourself a concussion?
Then you would have worried less about the amount of time it was taking
 
user559633
12:46 PM
Which goes back to "so are you estimating on complexity or time-spend?" and the answer seems to be "the dev tries to estimate the amount of work in hours, then converts it to a hand-wavey 'fibonacci' number"
 
nvm...they changed their comment...I'll just let nature take its course
 
Yeah we haven't found a practical way around equating points to time
 
@idjaw I downvoted, but they obviously changed the comment before I saw the Q.
 
something along the lines of not giving them a complicated solution because they aren't a nerd
 
@RobertGrant The easiest way is just tell people to stop doing it
@idjaw I suggested they investigate the use of functions
 
12:49 PM
That's not what I mean - I mean what is size other than time it will take?
 
user559633
But if you're not estimating on complexity and there's an implicit "it will take me X time", then you're trying to equate bubblegum-lollipop-points with hours anyway.
 
@RobertGrant It's an unconscious melange of time, work and other intangible factors.
 
But how's work different to time?
 
Surely it's obvious that "how long were you at work today" and "how much work did you do" are different questions?
 
user559633
12:51 PM
When TristanCorp can hire, I'm going to estimate on time and perceived "hardness" of the problem.
 
Yeah but does a hard problem that takes 40 hrs mean anything different to an easy problem that takes 40 hrs?
 
user559633
Whoa whoa, we don't estimate anything over a 13.
 
@holdenweb yes, but see my example as to why in the context of estimating, they become the same thing
(Very happy to be disproven here)
 
Because of where we currently are we sometimes estimate up to 100 (effectively infinity, so we don't use that). But nothing goes into a sprint unless it's been decomposed into tasks of 5 points or below - occasionally an 8-pointer might be allowed in.
 
user559633
It's almost like agile is a consulting trick meant to dissociate time deadlines from work for the benefit of software consulting companies
 
12:54 PM
I'm just doing what works for me, mate, and if I find it stops working or I find a better way I'll change
 
@holdenweb I don't see how that relates to my question? Say 4 hrs instead of 40, if that's what you were replying to
 
@RobertGrant I was actually replying to Tristan. Your obsession with time has started to bore me :P
 
user559633
Hey, if it works and you're hitting deadlines reliably with your team, go for it
 
user559633
In the meantime, I have a bag of magic jellybeans that will get your team to do 3x the work of Agile. They're only $2,000 a pouch.
 
To reiterate: the only important question is "can we get these things done in this sprint?"
 
user559633
12:57 PM
Sure, and this came from "are you estimating on complexity or time" and the answer is "on hour-estimations roughly transmuted into points that are subjectively grounded"
 
If they are performing by spending half their wages on @tristan's magic jelly beans I don't really care
 
@holdenweb just like to know how you actually achieve it. Maybe it's just experience of how long things are likely to take.
 
user559633
Oh, sorry, only management may consume these jelly beans. They're very special. So special that small teams and professional developers before the mid 2000s didn't discover them.
 
@tristan I said that? I don't think so ...
I said "We haven't discussed the complexity or time content of a story point at all"
 
user559633
@holdenweb Oh, sorry, I thought you had mentioned measuring on "complexity" at some point.
 
12:59 PM
But then when you look at a task, how do you decide how many points it is?
 
user559633
Yeah, entirely my bad, I apologize. Not sure why I had that in my brain.
 

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