« first day (1751 days earlier)      last day (3192 days later) » 
01:00 - 23:0023:00 - 00:00

1:17 AM
Who's up?
 
2:07 AM
Sometimes the answer is "No, there is no better way to get what you want."
 
@AaronHall Well, look at Mr Pessimism over here :(
 
lol
I like being right once in a while. There's so many things I know that just aren't so.
 
2:42 AM
Cabbage all. I know I haven't been in here in a long time, but it's my boss' fault.
 
Welcome back.
Did your boss forbid you from participating?
 
At any rate, do we have a good link explaining why Learn Python the Hard Way is such an awful way to teach Python? I just got finished answering another question about it...
@Aaron no, I'm half-joking. He doesn't like me spending time on "random websites" (his words) at work, which to me means Stack Exchange. Oh well, that's why we have weekends :)
 
Yeah, I was down on LPTHW for a while, but sometimes you just need to give noobs something to do that will get them where you can actually help them without holding their hands the whole way. I'm sure the author has his reasons for it.
 
There are so many better resources than it, though - even the ol' Python Tutorial gets you right into it without insisting you type 5,000 print statements in a row "just to get you used to typing things exactly" or whatever the twisted reasoning is. I tried it when I was first learning Python, and almost quit because of it (I also copied and pasted - don't tell!). Fortunately I found Mark Lutz and some other resources like SO, and here I am now with 33k rep...
 
Yeah, I point people to the docs. Particularly people with graduate degrees.
But after LPTHW everyone gets pointed at the docs.
So Matt, I understand you like Sublime?
 
3:03 AM
I do, a tiny bit :)
I discovered it about 3 years ago or so after trying all the code editors and IDEs I could get my hands on, and fell in love. Text-based settings are just so much more powerful and extensible than GUIs, and with the Python-based plugin system you can do just about anything with it.
 
Have you tried Spyder?
 
I used to love sublime, but somewhat ironically it got me (via the Vintageous package) into vim..
 
Honestly, I don't get how people can be productive in just a text editor. I miss PyCharm whenever I try to use another editor.
 
3:19 AM
yeah, a while ago. It was OK, as I recall, but I find that a lot of IDE "features" just get in my way, like function completion and documentation windows popping up all the time, linting screwing up your half-finished code, random warnings about imports not being found when you're coding for a server with a different library, etc.
@Ollie you won't find me mocking you. I use vim at a very basic level, but I still enjoy using the mouse and visual menus on occasion.
@Morgan I have a couple of plugins for Sublime, like Anaconda (not related to the Python distribution) and SublimeREPL running IPython that really help me out. Of course I keep google handy in the next window for searching docs and SO, but that setup has been good to me so far.
 
@MattDMo I agree - in particular I find mouse for a sort of high-level flick-through/reading of a project.. scrolling through multiple files without editing anything.
 
I've been encouraging people to try out Spyder as it comes free with Anaconda.
 
I have mixed feelings about the Anaconda distribution. On the one hand, it's a pretty decent all-in-one package, especially for scientific and numerical computing, and installing packages is usually pretty painless. On the other hand, I'm a hands-on guy, working on the command line, always wanting to be able to upgrade to the latest and greatest for testing, while keeping my "stable" stuff separate. I've found (at least in the past) that Anaconda and similar distributions (...)
(...) don't always have the latest, most up-to-date versions of modules, or even Python itself.
 
Yeah, but it's way more up to date than whatever's in my Linux repo.
ok, my wife has informed me that it's my bedtime, and I have to say goodbye to my internet friends. See ya fellas.
 
rhubarb!
 
3:35 AM
Cabbage. Never been here before -- not sure if I'm too old for this...
Everybody in bed? I guess I'll say rhubarb, then, and see if I remember my vegetables tomorrow.
 
 
3 hours later…
6:55 AM
@PatrickMaupin Just to say hello - a shame you missed everyone! I reckon I can be fairly confident that you're not too old !! ;)
And cabbage anyone that's around
 
7:32 AM
hello everyone
 
7:42 AM
Hey up all
 
so close :-) - 9,987
 
@PatrickMaupin you're Mr. Astor, right?
 
 
1 hour later…
8:56 AM
cabbage everybody
 
9:12 AM
Cabbage
 
 
3 hours later…
user559633
11:54 AM
Greetings
 
12:16 PM
Good morning!
Why is it so hard to go from the documentation to working code? Hmm?
 
user559633
Depends on the code, but I commonly think because documentation is in a vacuum. Implementation is getting it to work with the rest of what you have.
 
Ever found any use for a subclassed int, list, or str?
 
user559633
Only list and it was to replace some ruby code with a python version in a 1:1 behavior map.
 
user559633
Also, how are you today? How's your weekend?
 
Weekend's ok. I stayed up late trying to make this work:
class Int(int):
    slots = ('_x')
    def __new__(cls, value=0, start=0):
        self = super(Int, cls).__new__(cls, value)
        # self.__init__(value) # what? does this *do* anything?
        self._x = xrange(start, value)
        return self
    def __getitem__(self, i):
        return self._x[i]

if __name__ == '__main__':
    ten = Int(10)
    assert Int() == 0
    assert range(ten) == range(10)
    assert ten[9] == 9
 
user559633
12:24 PM
For the talk?
 
Maybe, I don't have a __new__ example.
Not sure I really need one.
 
user559633
I'd like to see one in practice
 
user559633
I wrote the code sample that my company is using for the t-shirts they're printing for the conference. Unfortunately not this one that I originally proposed though
 
user559633
#!/usr/bin/env python
import turtle as t
t.getscreen().bgcolor('#00D881')
s, p = t, t.Turtle(); s.ht(); p.ht()
s.pencolor('#fff'); s.pensize(25)
p.pencolor('#fff'); p.pensize(25)

def set_position(x, pos, b):
    x.up(); x.setposition(pos)
    x.lt(b); x.down()

def _s(it):
    set_position(s, (50,125), 90)
    [(s.fd(50/it), s.lt(25/it)) for i in range(10*it)]
    [(s.rt(4/it), s.fd(20/it)) for i in range(10*it)]
    [(s.fd(50/it), s.rt(25/it)) for i in range(10*it)]

def _p(it):
    set_position(p, (-60, -210), 90)
 
My code looks like an ugly hack to me. Sometimes new people try to use an int like they do a range or list, but seeing that in practice may help one realize that it's a bad idea. Sometimes we just want to see ugly hackery though.
 
user559633
12:31 PM
I think it's totally valid to say "yeah, here's an example that you can use BLAH for, but you should instead do BLERG"
 
user559633
oh whoops, pasted wrong version. i wrote a version that did the company logo. it's on my work computer :/
 
@BhargavRao nice article in the Helsingin Sanomat newspaper about languages spoken in Helsinki, apparently 0.02 % residents has Kannada as their mother tongue = 100 persons
 
oh yeah, there's probably a __new__ example in named tuple
 
1:00 PM
cbg
Wow, Thats really nice! @Antti. Do you have a online version of that article?
 
@BhargavRao it is in finnish so ymmv :D
hs.fi/kuukausiliite/a1437964212473 dunno if you can access it
they're paywalled after 5 daily or weekly or so articles (private mode helps)
 
Damn the auto translate did a bad job :/
 
:D ofc
the funniest thing is the journalist comes across a cricket game and asks what language they're talking with each other :D
 
So "Kieli" means language?
 
yes, it also means tongue
 
1:07 PM
Also 588 people with tamil as MT, surprising as Hindi is at 556. @thefourtheye will be pleased to know :P
Is there no y in Finnish?
 
ha? ofc there is :D
you didn't see any there?
this is only for helsinki, but foreigner concentration is higher in helsinki than in any other part of the country too
 
Malayalam is written as Malajalam :P
 
yes, because y is a different sound, there is y in Finnish but it is as in Swedish, the German ü vowel sound
@BhargavRao also, there is such a weakness in those numbers
the census registry can only have 1 language for each person :D
 
Yep. A person can have only one Mother tongue :P (tongue smiley)
 
and the article says this:
interviews some refugees, asks what languages do they speak: Farsi, Arabic, English, Pashtu, French, Kurdi... and then their absolute weakness if they want to get a job in Finland is their language skill ;)
... they don't speak Finnish
 
user559633
1:15 PM
And they'll freeze on the ice stage of life
 
Lol! :P
I'm translating the article part by part :D
 
@BhargavRao :-|
 
asdflas why did that get removed :D
cbg @강병찬, a username in hangul is hard to ping ;)
 
cabbage!
Yes, Antti, I developed and named astor, starting with a piece of code that Armin Ronacher wrote, and released it as my first foray into git-ness, and then promptly retreated. It was good, though, because when I started getting into git again, helping to fix it up with others around (mainly Berker) was better than doing git solely on my own...
 
1:41 PM
Aaron, I subclass built-ins all the time. Over a decade ago I even wrote code that would create a UserInt class. Because I'm working with hardware, a lot of times I use a simple HexInt class that defaults to hexadecimal for str and repr.
If you want an array example, here is an array class that deals with non-transparent proxy objects in such a way that the users of the objects never see the proxy objects. That's for a lazy PDF parser.
Finally, I subclass strings all the time to provide additional information -- think about filename and line number for a tokenizer... That and Aaron's code example remind me of a question I have (maybe it will be my first stackoverflow question...) Aaron's example has to be Python 2, because __slots__ do not work with integers on Python 3, because ints have variable-sized data. (With Python 2, longs have variable sized data but ints are fixed).
However, slots work with strings on Python 3 but not Python 2. I have found documentation explaining why they don't work in 2, but no documentation explaining why they do work in 3, so I was curious if it was an implementation fluke or a conscious decision.
 
Can I replace call(lambda new, was: new > was) with call(>)?
 
Sure, except you can't use the symbol > -- you have to import gt from operator...
 
You can used the operator module's gt() function, if that helps? operator.gt(x, y) should give the same result as x > y
 
1:59 PM
@PatrickMaupin cbg again, just noticed that you said "maybe I'm too old for this" and then recognized your name
 
@PatrickMaupin Can't see anything about the slots change in the NEWS file
Strange, too, that while Pythonn3 strs can have slots, int subclasses cannot
 
@HoldenWeb -- Yeah, that was kinda my point. Ints in 3 are like longs in 2, so they removed that capability, but they added it on strings. Some of the documentation in 2 as to why you couldn't do it for strings seemed to have some of the sour grapes mentality of "nobody would ever really want to do this anyway" (ah, but I do!) so did they figure that out and do an about-face, or is it all about buffer protocol rationalization?
 
I could bullshit all day without shedding any further light, but I prefer a meaningful silence
 
2:18 PM
Understood. My reason for wanting to know "why" is (only) slightly more than idle curiosity -- if it was done on purpose it may be less likely to change in the next round of optimizations. But I couldn't find it anywhere, either, so I'll join you in silence for now.
@Antti -- I cannot remember participating in a chat room -- that's how old I am.
 
@PatrickMaupin I mean, from github
I guess the slots thing is exactly because the int data is stored at the end of the object, whereas not with the str.
especially with str it does not make any sense to do such an "optimization"
 
Yes, I recognize/remember you from github. (I suppose that's sort of like a chat room in some ways.) My initial comment here was lacking a bit of context -- MatDMo invited me here via a link in a comment on a question, and so I showed up, but everybody was gone.
 
hehe
you should set this room as the browser homepage :D
 
What if I don't want all you guys seeing all the stuff I type into my search engine?
 
"hey did you see, Patrick is googling for Ruby"
 
2:26 PM
Sure, but not that Ruby!
 
here it says: "Nonempty __slots__ does not work for classes derived from “variable-length” built-in types such as int, bytes and tuple."
 
We have a resident rubyist. We've taken him in and are slowly teaching him a civilised language.
6
 
@Ffisegydd which one should we teach? Finnish or Kannada?
 
Welsh, obviously.
 
Right, but IIRC, in Python 2, strings were "variable-length" as well (which is why __slots__ did not work with them in 2, and I haven't found any documentation on the reasons for the change. I suspect it is somewhere in all the buffer protocol stuff, but that's pure non-meaningful non-silent speculation.
 
user559633
2:37 PM
@AnttiHaapala It's spelled "Canada"
 
@tristan no, it is just pronounced Canada
 
user559633
@AnttiHaapala Yes, "Canada" is pronounced "Canada." What's your point?
 
user559633
Okay, maybe this is a really poor "Who's on first" setup
 
OTOH, bytes in 3 (which Antti points out don't support slots) are similar to strings in 2, right?
@tristan -- used to work with a guy named James Hu who had never heard of Abbot & Costello
 
Guess he has heard by now then
there's no way to add more members before that ob_sval in the structs, and if you'd add after, then the access wouldn't be generic
it is possible but would have limited utility
 
2:56 PM
I understand that, but why did they bother changing it for strings for 3?
IOW, why isn't the string 4-byte character data right after the object header?
 
@PatrickMaupin guess the unicode already worked that way in python 3
and the unicode representation is not "4 bytes only" anymore
 
You guys with Kannada and all your other foreign languages -- gimme ASCII, dammit!
 
it still is there... you see that tiny spot in the upper left corner?
 
Yeah, but just like everything else, it costs more than it used to.
 
ah actually if I understand this correctly: github.com/python/cpython/blob/master/Include/…
the compact non-slottable stuff still exists
but it is behind a flag, since some flags are needed anyhow...
(fixed line number above)^
@PatrickMaupin there's not much overhead anymore in python 3.3+
 
3:07 PM
The biggest open source package I maintain (and the only one on github besides astor so far) is pdfrw Like astor, pdfrw runs on Python 2 and 3 with the same code base. I have some tests that essentially read in and reproduce a lot of random PDFs I found on the web. For that use-case, Python 3.3+ is 20% slower than Python 2.7.
 
have you profiled it, would be nice to know what functions are slowing it down
 
It's been awhile, but yeah. I'm pretty sure it's mainly the strings occupying four times as much space.
 
but they don't take 4 times as much most of the time, anymore
if that makes the hit then you should have used bytes for those
 
Yeah, but I find if token == b'>' extremely ugly and error-prone. Might as well write in C.
 
@AnttiHaapala Great catch, Antti
 
3:22 PM
Yeah, it is a good catch. Unfortunately I go cross-eyed looking at all the conditions!
 
Well, nobody ever said there was no waffle in the Python docs. Sometimes it hurts to see the way someone wants to explain and signally fails
To me that looks more like the design specification than "as-built" user documentation
I like the way that you allow arbitrary variable assignment by adding '__dict__' to __slots__
Kind of logical but non-obvious (unless you are Dutch, I guess)
Oh well, this isn't getting next Tuesday's two presentations written, so I guess I better (guess who lived in America) rhubarb out, guys. Hasta la cabbage
 
3:38 PM
Cbg
 
cbg bobby tables
 
:)
Started writing unit tests in Pyramid; enjoying it so far
 
4:04 PM
Trying to start applying for wife's spousal visa to the UK; not enjoying it so far
 
lol
how long you've been married
 
3 years
To prove English language skills she has to send her original uni certificate through the dodgy SA postal system, which takes 5-7 working days, then wait 15 days while it's processed somewhere in Cheltenham (costs 50 quid), then hope the results and certificate make it back here (another 5-7 days)
Rather than just, say, a Skype interview
 
you need to prove language skills?
 
She does, because she's South African
 
I ll never be able to go to UK then :D
Oh only for SA?
 
user559633
4:06 PM
You should fly to the UK, mail the letter, then fly back :)
 
my wife had A1.1 level Finnish when coming to Finland
 
@tristan yeah it's a possibility :)
I prove my own language skills by saying, "Hi, I'm this guy's son"
 
user559633
Also, the UK doesn't allow your wife to move there based on you two being married? I thought there was a family rule.
 
Yeah you apply for a spousal visa, but even so
 
@tristan yeah, Finland has family reunion rules,
 
4:08 PM
They have to guard against visa marriages
 
user559633
That's messed up, given the immigration issues that are happening.
 
exactly
 
user559633
@RobertGrant Yeah, have to watch out for people trying to go the legal route.
 
Haha
Although yes, that's what it feels like at the moment
Wonder if Cameron himself will stop her at the airport for trying to smuggle a visaless foetus into the country
 
basically filed the residence permit application for wife, then waited 3 months for it be processed and she got the card, and that's it. No stupid language exams or anything
 
user559633
4:10 PM
@RobertGrant She should come by land or sea and she'll be fine and probably also get some money for existing.
 
@RobertGrant while you're at it, get the UK to join the Schengen
 
:)
Would be nice
 
I'm in Cheltenham. Tell me where they are and I'll smash some windows if they take too long.
 
we'd like to visit the UK but ... certainly not wanting to get a visa
so... no UK for both of us :D
 
@Ffisegydd awesome
What we might do is courier it there, then have it delivered to my parents and I'll pick it up when I'm in the UK
 
So then the English language bit is done a bit faster
 
hmhmmh
 
user559633
@RobertGrant Would it be possible to send/receive from a mail service? Maybe someone that could print/mail and receive/scan/email the response?
 
anw, what's wrong with the SA post, just send it as a registered EMS letter, granted it will be a shitload of money, but it will get through
go to the largest post office you can find
 
@RobertGrant -- This may or may not be on-point but my wife is English and we live in the US. One time when she was visiting her parents for a few weeks, she thought she'd renew her passport. They didn't let it happen -- sent it back and she had to do it from the states...
 
4:27 PM
woot?
 
@tristan I think I need the original thing back saying she can speak English, that's the problem. Otherwise the issuer could just email it to us. But I'll check!
Amazing how much of this stuff could be automated pretty easily
At least the comms
 
user559633
@RobertGrant It's almost like certain government agencies don't want things to be efficient
 
amazing how much of this stuff is there just to intimidate you, and of no real use.
The Schengen Area is the area comprising 26 European countries that have abolished passport and any other type of border control at their common borders, also referred to as internal borders. It mostly functions as a single country for international travel purposes, with a common visa policy. The Area is named after the Schengen Agreement. Countries in the Schengen Area have eliminated internal border controls with the other Schengen members and strengthened external border controls with non-Schengen states. The Schengen area encourages the free movement of goods, information, money and people...
wouldn't it be nice to have UK there?
 
My daughters got UK passports recently from the states. Most of the set-up was fairly well automated, and you just print out and sign a few things and send with pictures and docs. They still haven't figured out the whole A4/letter thing, though.
 
Oh, get this - the only way to get the university transcript to send off is to fax the university
 
user559633
4:34 PM
@RobertGrant I'm familiar with that :) To get a copy of my original birth certificate, I had to show up in person to my hometown
 
user559633
Which was difficult because I wasn't sure which vat the government lab grew me in and the laboratory sits on a town line.
 
:)
I guess the vats look a lot smaller to adult eyes
Other than the vat of adult eyes
 
4:55 PM
Top class comedy.
 
user559633
@Ffisegydd Dr Meanie Pants
 
@tristan was that your incubation parent?
 
user559633
@RobertGrant I was obviously one of the unmonitored longitudinal studies. I turned out generally okay, except that I hear circus music and see red whenever a dog barks.
 
You were generated for the unittests and they forgot to garbage collect you.
 
user559633
Dog just walked by outside. Click these two links and let them play at the same time a b for a simulation
 
user559633
5:11 PM
@Ffisegydd Next time I interview someone for a Python position, I'll ask for sample code and then ask if it's okay if I check his references
 
user559633
 
Nice.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:23 PM
Free Hotel WiFi \o/
One thing I love about hotels: having AC and being able to set the temperature to a lovely 13C.
 
O_o @Ffisegydd like it cold do we?
 
13C is not cold. 13C is perfect.
Anything above 20C is too hot - Official Fizzy Statement.
 
I prefer 21C
 
Besides - 13C is good - don't wanna end up having warm Gin now, does one? :p
 
13C? Seriously? We have AC, but keep ours at around 27C.
 
6:31 PM
What's the point of using it then? :p
 
Yeah that isn't AC, that's a heater.
 
Because it's 39 outside?
 
It's about 22ish outside maybe according to Google.
 
Ah, well then you would need a heater to get to 27.
 
No because above 25C I literally melt.
Not figuratively, literally.
 
6:32 PM
@Ffisegydd is a snowman?!
I always wondered what happened to Frosty
 
I'm in witness protection.
 
Yeah, the Wicked Witch only figuratively melted. Literally, she dissolved.
 
Guys, I really think we might move to the UK. Getting excited now.
 
Moving's always exciting. I think I'd like to move to New Zealand.
 
(Is it bad that one of the main things I think of that excites me is Netflix?)
 
6:34 PM
@Robert errr... Netflix is accessible without physically relocating yourself :)
 
@Rob can't you just use Hola to "move" region?
 
Yeah but don't I need non-terrible, non-superexpensive internet for that first?
 
Not that we, or Room 6 in general, condone you breaking the terms and conditions agreement.
 
Actually, I just checked the weather, and I lied -- it's only 36 outside right now.
 
Also you can just fake your IP for British Netflix
 
6:35 PM
Yes yes renting an IP is the easy bit I know :)
@PatrickMaupin why NZ in particular?
 
I'd like to visit Edinburgh again
 
NetflixTalk: Watched the first episode of Sense8 yesterday. Was okay. Not amazing though. It's got Naveen Andrews in it though which earns it at least another episode to prove its worth.
 
Not sure. It's a beautiful place, with people I can understand, though.
 
My friend lived in NZ for 2 years. She'd emigrate tomorrow if she could afford it.
 
You mean to go back there?
 
6:38 PM
I think her plan is to move permanently eventually once her and her fella have more money and can prove they'd be useful to the NZ economy (part of the visa application IIRC).
They did NZ for 2 years and then Australia for 2.
 
my wife really wants to see London too...ah, well. When the kids are older
 
One day I'll visit America and see @tristan. It'll be like that scene at the end of Dark Knight Rises when Alfred sees Bruce across the restaurant. We'll nod at each other then never speak again.
 
I've never been to America
I'm hoping that having a child will make travelling way easier
3
 
I'd like to visit America. If I'd stayed in academia I'd have pushed to do a postdoc in USA for 2 years for the experience then move back home.
 
Child, travelling. Yeah, that always works.
 
6:44 PM
:)
 
I reckon I could have scored one at the Advanced Photon Source in Illinois.
 
At least it'll travel free for a bit
 
Holy sh** Cilla Black has died.
 
We have a spare room, at least until I make it to New Zealand. Of course, it is 36 outside. We have been known to lower the AC temperature for foreigners, though.
 
@Ffisegydd wow, okay
 
6:46 PM
Too young.
 
user559633
@Ffisegydd Which one of us is Alfred?
 
Depends which of us is first to fake our own deaths.
 
user559633
Born 27 May 1943
Vauxhall, Liverpool, England
Died 2 August 2015 (aged 72)

Not sure 72 is too young
 
Actually, Robert, it can work quite well when they are tiny. My wife and I went from Texas to England to visit her parents when our oldest was 5 months old. One of the other passengers worked up the courage to ask "can I hold the baby?" and we quickly handed over the baby before she could change her mind. They passed the baby all around the plane and we collected her before landing.
 
She said she didn't want to live past 75
 
user559633
6:51 PM
@Ffisegydd Oh, so I'm like 3x Batman?
 
user559633
I was named Robert...once
 
Exactly -- she had 3 more years.
 
@PatrickMaupin heh scary but cool story :)
@tristan Robert the Bruce Wayne?
 
user559633
@PatrickMaupin Did you check to make sure you received the same baby back? If my kid sucked, like, was a real crying piece of crap, I'd do a switcheroo.
 
user559633
6:52 PM
All babies are the same anyway
 
I'll arrange a maternity test. We already know who the father is.
 
user559633
@PatrickMaupin I'm glad you can joke about it now
 
If you don't laugh, you cry, right?
Like, a lot.
 
user559633
@RobertGrant May you some day find the people that traded you on a plane.
 
It's that level of damage that led me to create the realtime baby trading site ebaby.com
 
6:56 PM
If it didn't work for you, what makes you think somebody's going to give you $850K for it?
 
lol that is ridiculous
 
user559633
For some reason, that reminds me of the time in grade school when they gave us fake babies that recorded when there was impact or they weren't fed/checked up on. After realizing the babies would cry at least once every couple hours for a period of time, we decided the thing to do would be to see who could get the highest score. To this day, I don't know which one of us was number one, but we did all win trips to the school counselor's office.
 
phones broker to put it back to a cool mill
 
They just gave us bags of flour or eggs
 
You could make baby-cakes!
 
6:59 PM
:)
 
user559633
Oh, I don't think bags of flour or eggs would have withstood the same centrifugal force as the training babies they gave us
 
Mine was used for archery practice by an older cousin
 
user559633
@JGreenwell "yo, i fixed your baby hands over pancakes"
 
user559633
Is "Let’s use programming on it!" from a web comic or xkcd or something?
 
user559633
Not sure why it's in my head, but I'm thinking about using it for a slide and I want to make sure I'm not using a meme
 
7:01 PM
I thought it came from an old standard early program (like "hello world") using Lisp
 
user559633
Yeah, I could have sworn that I'm adapting or taking it from somewhere
 
(let ((programming 'Lisp))
    (message "Let's use %s on it!" programming))
 
user559633
Is that from a tutorial?
 
that's from me being old
or more just starting early
 
user559633
Oh, I didn't know if it was some reasonably well known source.
 
user559633
7:07 PM
Also, I'm pretty sure that we're approximately the same age :)
 
hence, second statement
 
For some reason that reminds me of Terence Parr's motto: Why program by hand in five days what you can spend five years of your life automating?
 
Maybe you're thinking of the Luniz classic I Got 5 On It
 
Rhubarb, all. Real life intervenes.
 
Tra
 
7:57 PM
Does 2.7 syntax support in-expression assignment print (path = "xyz")?
 
Why not try it?
 
I did. Python may want it in a different way. You are human to understand the problem and probably correct it.
 
That is indeed what I recognise evil as
Rbrb :)
 
8:16 PM
That's a standard response a few of us use when asked "does X work?" because a lot of people won't have tried it themselves.
In any case, no it's not possible. To do with assignment being a statement (or an expression, I forget)
In any case, can't be done.
For some reason I used "in any case" twice, sloppy.
 
what's a term for data that has loosely related attributes (classifications)?
 
8:40 PM
fuzzy?
 
It was loosely coupled and I was having a brain fart
 
I have a lot of those
Is that brain flatulence?
 
last two paragraphs (...three if I count abstract) for term paper; my brain died a while ago so it might be brain decay
running on zombie brains right now
 
Hah - hope you get it in OK.
 
9:24 PM
cbg
 
10:07 PM
cbg
@RecognizeEvilasWaste Python may want it in a different way. You are human to understand... Actually, Python doesn't want it at all -- assignment inside expressions was deliberately avoided as a language feature, but if the human wants it for some strange, evil reason, the human may ask Python to print([path for path in ("xyz",)][0])
 
DSM
Cabbage for all.
 
Agreed.
 
DSM
Oh, hello! Not sure we've met. Welcome to the room!
 
user559633
Oh yeah, welcome to the room @PatrickMaupin.
 
Thank you. I was invited here yesterday, so thought I'd check it out. Looks like another fantastic time-waster for avoiding real work. It's great! I've been doing a lot of that lately.
Thanks, Tristan. I enjoy your attitude. Where, exactly, in the States do you hail from? (I'm in Austin)
 
user559633
10:19 PM
@PatrickMaupin Hey, thanks. I'm from Maine, but don't have a fixed address.
 
@tristan is in a state of flux
 
My daughter's trying to get herself into that position. One of her strategies is to leave all her crap with me and her mother...
 
user559633
@JGreenwell Well expressed.
 
flux is better than Oklahoma
 
DSM
"No Fixed Address: Programming on the Run"
 
user559633
10:21 PM
@PatrickMaupin Ha! I did the same thing. My cats and stuff are at my parents house. I've been living out of a carry-on suitcase since Apr
 
user559633
@DSM No fixed address: PrograSEGMENTATION FAULT
 
Years ago I remember working with a few guys that had been sharing a house for years. None of 'em had so much as a mattress, because they didn't want to be tied down.
 
DSM
aargh, how do you add a label to a github issue again?
 
DSM
That's only for your own. It looks like you can't do it if you're not a contributor to the project. :-/
 
user559633
10:25 PM
It's nice not to have stuff to tie you down. That said, I miss my mattress, cats, and hobbies that require stuff.
 
user559633
Like lifting, or bikes, or archery, or reading books.
 
It will be interesting to see how my daughter fares after she gets rid of her house and simultaneously winds up with more cash than she's ever had. It was sort of a mistake to buy it, yet an apparently profitable one -- it didn't really cost her anything to live in it because of roommates, and now after two years it looks like the profit is going to be around $65K -- not bad for someone who's never held a full-time job.
 
DSM
Recent pandas question: "Any idea why I'm getting a duplicate Tom Brady?"
My answer, which isn't constructive: "Well, would *you* put it past Belichick to have Brady cloned? 'League only suspended the original.'"
 
user559633
@PatrickMaupin Oh wow, house to sell. Also, good on her for turning that sort of profit -- surprising she could buy it without a full time job.
 
user559633
My impression of the American market was that houses have inflated prices and are hard to sell. I was looking at buying an investment property and people were more than willing to negotiate
 
10:31 PM
She had a lot of help, from a dad who is anxious to get his money back and get rid of the mortgage if she's not going to live there.
 
user559633
Well, then I hope said dad gets a cut of that profit :)
 
The Austin market is crazy overpriced. It may keep going up, but I'd rather not have to worry about it -- spent too much renovating the house to be a slumlord with it. Dad's more than happy to be absolved of the responsibility.
 
DSM
Fewer worries and more money in your pocket. This seems like a solid play.
 
For an anxious guy like me, yes. For awhile, she was wanting to hold onto it, since renting out 5 rooms at $500 each was giving her some cash flow even after she paid me, but I explained that I wasn't happy having all the potential downside while she got all the potential upside. A couple of landlord-type events encouraged her to finally agree with me...
 
user559633
Yeah, sounds like a good play. I'm the anxious type too and can't imagine having a mortgage or any debt
 
DSM
10:41 PM
I remember being very happy when my student debt (which was fortunately pretty light) was paid off.
 
Student debt -- that's my other daughter. Starting her last year of medical school... Fortunately, hers is pretty light, too, though, for her situation.
 
DSM
By the last year she's chosen her specialty, right?
 
user559633
Cheers to her. She'll burn down the loan principle in no time after residency.
 
Yeah, she wants to do pediatrics ICU -- sounds way too intense for me.
 
DSM
I'm glad there are people who want to do that, but words cannot express how fast I would run away from that responsibility.
 
user559633
10:53 PM
i'd totally go into pediatrics (seriously, little people are basically the only people i don't wholesale dislike), but i don't know how anyone can afford going without a job for 4-5 years
 
I went two years without a job after the military and that nearly ended me
 
user559633
@JGreenwell Yeah, I took off ~4 months in NYC and it cost me ~15k. I can't imagine long term unemployment, it must be crushing and impossible. Cheers on bouncing back from that
 
01:00 - 23:0023:00 - 00:00

« first day (1751 days earlier)      last day (3192 days later) »