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12:00 AM
but someone could if they need performance for a loop somewhere
 
But, for things like your raspberry pi interface, I think, it's probably a better idea than the FFI
I would pick user natives over FFI generally speaking
Red has, currently, what you would think of as user natives...but no FFI
Anyway, what I like about user natives and such is that it does change the conversation a bit, to where people nitpicking the number of CPU cycles to do a pre-lookahead for enfix lookback on hard quoted left arguments can see that... well, sure, a pre-lookahead costs a little more.
...but, isn't the point that Rebol feel awesome when you use it?
And if you need to add a billion numbers and don't want interpreter overhead, well, write yourself some native code and pipe down. :-)
If you're not writing native code, you should feel like you're driving a luxury vehicle. You're paying for it.
 
So, using user natives I theoretically could allocate some memory at a fixed address ( where the GPIO is held) and poke into it?
theoretically since I don't know C
 
@GrahamChiu Sure, user natives use the same API as a native native. You could have done your UDP multicast too, if you could trick the libraries and compilation into linking it.
But it's a new and speculative feature.
 
@HostileFork untested?
 
Not heavily tested, but nothing fundamentally unsound about it.
I'm just saying that, if we do our job right, it's a challenge to Red/System, in terms of anyone who would call Ren-C slow.
Because, well, interpreters are... slow. They just are.
Doesn't matter if you're French or not, if you run your algorithm through an interpreter, you pay a tax.
 
12:16 AM
So, when do you think TCC enabled ren-c might appear in travis builds?
@johnk did you know we can hit arm hardware directly using user natives ?
 
12:39 AM
@GrahamChiu all happy now. Just a typo int he config
 
@johnk vi?
 
@GrahamChiu not sure. You can hit gpio via the filesystem directly, but it looks like wiring provides a nicer wrapper
@GrahamChiu and small screen and big fingers. All good
Looks like wiring has implementations in ruby, python, perl etc. which are a wrapper around the lib
 
@johnk yes... but do we need a library if we can write user natives?
 
@GrahamChiu You are telling me you're going to become a C programmer all of a sudden?
 
@HostileFork I can cut and paste like the best of them!
 
12:48 AM
@GrahamChiu It's much easier to write and debug your code as a regular non-TCC native first.
 
I was programming in C when you were in diapers
admittedly it was on my Cbm 64
and it was just "hello world" lol
 
@GrahamChiu Well I was folding those diapers into Penrose tiles, and programming on an Osborne 1.
In BASIC, but, well.
 
 
4 hours later…
5:19 AM
posted on March 28, 2017 by gchiu

to file! "|" == %| echo %| ; crash ** Version: 2.102.0.3.40 ** ** Platform: Windows win32-x64 ** ** Build: 27-Mar-2017/14:13:02 ** ** Commit: c5ab948 **

 
6:15 AM
This room suddenly disappeared. Could not find it. Somebody renamed it. And I see a lot of room owners removed and new ones added.
 
@iArnold yeah, spring cleaning
@iArnold also removed the redlang twitter feed which was upsetting us!
@iArnold odd that it disappeared since the room number should redirect you here
 
6:44 AM
@GrahamChiu I do not always login and then I type the name of the room and my standard search word is 'red' and it will leave this room as one of the few shown. But when I am logged in I still can see the room.
 
@iArnold use rebol
that's what we all do here :)
 
@GrahamChiu Solving that is my daily job, so that is a good thing, I have to pay my bills too ;-)
So the REDlang tweets were really annoying, so 'our' redlang is just not present/popular enough to annoy the educational twitterers away to an other tag.
And we do not talk about compilable Rebols here?
 
@iArnold We are granting a longstanding wish that Red not exist on StackOverflow.
I'll help make that happen
 
@HostileFork at least you do not carry the burden of maintaining this room anymore so you are free to focus on the good stuff.
 
@iArnold Not enough to drive them away
I think there's a conference on which they're all retweeting
 
6:54 AM
@iArnold I resigned a very long time ago.
 
@sqlab check out our new downloads page
 
But it was I, who started 291.
 
Wel a fresh start. Anybody want to join github r3n organisation? ;-)
 
Ok, I have a new temporary repo for help .. so we can work on this and then move it to a new repo later on
@iArnold well the docs need a home
but it looks as though we can't spell!
 
@GrahamChiu A link to the new downloads page?
 
6:57 AM
@iArnold I appreciate you wanting to take initiative, but there won't be any movement soon.
 
@RebolBot downloads
 
@GrahamChiu Ren-c binaries
 
We're doing fine.
 
it's very slow due to some DNS issues on digitalocean
@iArnold docs are here github.com/gchiu/reboldocs
 
It's just time to cut Red out of the equation. For all practical purposes, it does not exist any longer.
 
6:59 AM
so people can add examples, files etc to the help
but I found it really tricky to get formatting right in markdown
@iArnold actually red is only off topic for @HostileFork .. the rest of us can talk about it!
 
@GrahamChiu It seems you should do two files
One file, auto generated, has to be updated from the natives
Another file, user contributions
 
yeah but how to merge them to view as one?
 
Or, I guess, a understood "don't edit above this line" convention
 
@HostileFork er, did you check any of the files out?
 
@GrahamChiu I prefer not to.
 
7:02 AM
@GrahamChiu I looked, you scraped help
 
@iArnold I thought you were a red supporter
---
Above this line is autogenerated. Place user comments below.
bit hard to misunderstand this??
 
@GrahamChiu My reading scan saw the line and didn't think it was part of the file
I disregarded it, like a footer
 
@HostileFork It's part of the file
 
Yes, I see now, but there's a markdown line if you look at it, and I'm so used to seeing that being copyright or something that I didn't read it as data.
 
Pay attention!
 
7:05 AM
I'm used to ignoring everything under such lines.
 
anyway, it's all up for suggestions
the format is pretty plain
but I think the idea is to publish it to rebol.info
 
I agree with the motive, of a living help system. But I feel the in-interpreter help is already pretty good. I feel like the real problem, which legalistic attacks isn't going to help, is how to get a more vibrant StackOverflow presence.
 
@HostileFork it just doesn't give examples of use
 
Well, there is SO documentation. But again, if you're blocked from writing any Rebol examples that aren't Rebol(tm) because of he-who-will-not-be-named, that's lame.
 
that's ludicrous
We can do what we want
 
7:09 AM
<shrug>
 
like this
USAGE:
     --- :value

DESCRIPTION:
     Ignores the argument value.
     --- is a function .

RETURNS: [<opt>]
    Nothing.

ARGUMENTS:
    :value [block! any-string! binary! any-scalar!]
        Literal value to be ignored.
what is --- supposed to do?
 
I didn't make that.
That's an old thing
 
it's just a random thing I plucked out
 
I am actually surprised I didn't take it out yet.
I don't know if people remember my theory on COMMENT, where it didn't just hard quote and ignore
 
Removal of Red, sounds a bit ... well ... hostile ....
2
 
7:12 AM
@pekr that hasn't happened. Read the transscript
HF just agreed that discussing red was off topic for himself
and I changed the room name so that we can discuss all rebol variants
 
I just need to know one thing, if this channel turns into R3 chat only, or is going to stay a friendly place, where whatever Rebol-like langs ideas are discussed?
ok .... that's why there is an * char, right?
 
@pekr I just said this!!
 
Your post appeared right at the time I pressed the enter with mine ;-)
 
@pekr we were also discussing whether we should use red's parse instead of r3a
Well, as I said you need to read the transcript instead of jumping to conclusions :)
 
It would just be a port of the approach, to C.
vs. the recursion model as used in R3-Alpha, but I am not eager to do this, there's a lot of other work.
In any case, I think it's fine for Red to fall off the map.
 
7:17 AM
Well, @HostileFork thinks, that Red's parse might have a good merit. Why not to get the idea one from each other? It is just 2 days ago, since I posted on Altme 3 points - bar! type (hence Gregg's reaction which was discussed here), Definitional return and the removal of Closure
Did not get reply from Doc though, as he was preparing a release. Gregg put up some comments ...
 
@pekr They are not interested in my ideas!
 
How do you know?
 
Which, in the case of definitional return, I didn't exactly come up with that all by myself.
There was quite a bit of talk about it before.
I just put 2 + 2 together
 
As for R3, during the Brno workshop, where Earl has introduced his secret, almost ready Emscripten port, which was never released, he said, that R3 networking code is kind of a mess and should be rewritten. What do you think about it @HostileFork?
 
7:19 AM
@pekr which year was this?
 
Dunno - two years ago? Has anything changed since then? He surely was not talking about the upper level protocols, but the networking code internals ...
 
@pekr Well, I have said what I think in general, which is that core evaluator needs to be pulled from the rest of it. But Ren-C isn't just a libRed (and a better, more complete, libRed foundation). It has another angle to it. And I would personally prefer a message/thread loop from Qt.
 
@pekr well, there is the hope that networking will full duplex
 
So what I want to do, is do a good enough job of factoring so that Atronix can take ownership of the "old model", which they need to...they rely on it, and it's already a huge amount of work for them to engage the modern evaluator.
 
@pekr was anything written up about this Brno meeting?
 
7:22 AM
For the event loops, many use libev or is it libuv these days ...
 
I'm not familiar with it
 
The emscripten build should not have any of the network code, or PNG and GIF decoding.
 
@GrahamChiu - no, it was just a Redcon, where me, Oldes, Rebolek, Doc, Cyphre and Andreas met ...
 
@pekr Well I place my bets on Qt, it's well-crafted.
 
I see
 
7:23 AM
Early days, chat about anything Rebol/Red related. Cyphre even shown his never released GUI port for Android
 
<sigh>
 
Really a pity we lost some old time rebollers - they just disappeared. E.g. BrianH - such a skilled guy for internals ... now we can see he is contributing to Ruby. Ladislav? Appears from time to time. Ditto for Gabriele. Andreas - gone. Kaj - gone ....
 
When I look at the competence and organization between people like cppreference, or the C++ standards committee, these are people you can count on: en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/template_argument_deduction
 
As for the GUI for Android, it was AGG based, ran R3-GUI and was considered being slow. The conclusion was, that the ARM SW only AGG can't be fast. But Cyphre admitted, there might be some bug ...
 
@GrahamChiu I cannot bet on only 1 horse if I want a future without having to program in bloatware frameworks
 
7:26 AM
@iArnold so which one is it? :)
@pekr well, we saw that one
It was very slow
 
@GrahamChiu That is about as stupid as choosing between the Beatles and the Stones when you should enjoy both their music.
 
@iArnold or neither :-)
 
@iArnold I read that as I can only bet on one horse
 
I've met Mick Jagger.
 
so if we have the help docs on rebol.info, it could point back to my repo, or the r3n repo
whatever people want
If it goes to r3n, it means @iArnold gets all the work of approving PRs and not me :)
 
7:33 AM
@GrahamChiu No I would immediately put you on the owners list of the organisation and probably the organisation can be transferred to another account. I do not have to stay the owner, I have no intention, I just grabbed the name to be used by our community.
 
@iArnold oh .. I thought you were volunteering to do some work for the community
 
@GrahamChiu That is no problem except I consider myself not to be qualified to judge upon the changes offered.
 
@iArnold it's called upskilling!
I do that all the time
 
And there should always be 3 maintainers with the keys
 
I'd imagine that there would be an inbuilt function in renc that would take a url and run the examples attached to a page
so if you had 3 examples you'd need three urls
 
7:59 AM
You want to have Ren-C renamed to r3n? IIRC, there was a "project", codenamed REN, and it was about the Rebol endorsed data exchange format, kind of JSON NG. Not sure if the idea is going to be pushed forward, but decide wisely, what you use it for :-)
 
@pekr no
it was just a play on the words
so instead of r31 or r32 .. it would be r3n
 
Well, Ren-C has Ren in its name, so on the other hand, why not ...
As for the REN data exchange format, I am not sure we are strong enough community to push it onto other environments and not sure if there are some other benefits than simply using a JSON
 
The similarity between REN and Rebol is no coincidence.
 
@pekr that was influenced by rebolek's ren data format I think
 
We still remember Rebol/Services, right? It was a nice concept - many suggestions arose, and Carl chose LNS, or something like that ...
Was it for Lightweight Networking Services?
 
8:08 AM
@pekr Yes, that was my suggestion but I didn't get any prizes for that!
 
You should call Carl, he clearly owes you a bottle of a good Rebol wine :-)
 
@pekr probably from 20 years ago now
 
I can't believe we started in 1996. Back then, when someone mentioned some other lang and its 20 years heritage, I thought to myself - gee, why 20 years? You can build it in 1-2 years, no? And look where we are at 2017 ....
 
so it would have to be vintage Sassenrath Ranch wine
@pekr well these things take time, so doc has a lot on his hands. Carl had paid developers working on rebol and rebol2
 
In that sense, I am glad FS (FullStack) is funded. I always wondered, with Carl's and Reichart's contacts, if I don't know - Intel, Google, would fund some of Rebol efforts. I know Google has some Summer of code or something like that, so most probably lots of projects are competing to get funded ...
Or we need one rich follower :-) I remember there was one appearing shortly after R3 was open-sourced, but it looked suspicious since the very beginning, like - why would anyone do it? :-)
 
8:15 AM
@pekr Piquard?
 
Not sure. There was also one guy, who created a nice blog site for Rebol and it started being popular. Not remembering his name/nick either, while I do remember old RebolForces from Allen ...
 
@pekr reboltutorial
 
Yes, that was it ...
 
8:41 AM
LNS - 2005
only 12 years ago
 
See my comment - "Carl leaved for a trip, so we will have to wait :-)" .... 12 years later - Carl's still on a trip :-)
 
@pekr but your english is better now!
 
@GrahamChiu (Yes Jean-Luc Picard. No that guy just shared the name Patrick Stewart.)
@GrahamChiu Various links get broken in time. (Even if it is Apple developer documents). My recommendation is backing up the data/pages you refer too to secure the information for later use.
 
@iArnold that's the advantage of using github
in case the website that publishes it goes down
 
 
3 hours later…
12:08 PM
It's time to turn the warning levels ("up to 11") on the travis builds.
I think people who aren't @ShixinZeng may not realize how important Ren-C bringing a true debug build to Rebol is.
There is little hope we could be where we are without Panic_Series! It is a critical piece of how we have any clue what's going on.
@NickS Hello there. Ask any questions if you have them. :-)
1154
A: In YAML, how do I break a string over multiple lines?

Steve Bennett ă„ąThere are 5 6 NINE (or 63*, depending how you count) different ways to write multi-line strings in YAML. Block scalar styles (>, |) These allow escaping, and add a new line (\n) to the end of your string. > Folded style removes the newlines within the string (but adds one at the end): Key: > ...

Jeez, what's wrong with that picture? :-(
 
12:39 PM
This cannot be done. Ever. Stop asking for this.
Either a language has a syntax and there are things that cannot be loaded, or it doesn't and every program is a byte sequence.
 
@MarkI Didn't you have some sort of philosophical leaning that Rebol items were intrinsically/intentionally represented by the strings that the person had typed?
I do not feel I have enough data to know if KWATZ! is good or bad in the long run, and to re-hash my point, I feel the burden of proof should be on the people inventing these features to come to the table and show them doing something remarkable and not breaking anything that was previously good.
 
@HostileFork I cannot recall to what you are referring. As far as KWATZ!, it was abandoned when it was realised that it is both impossible and useless.
 
How do you know it was abandoned? It comes from the World language, but most probably you do know that?
 
@MarkI I'd have to dig a bit to find what I'm referring to, but it was something where you were arguing kind of that there be arbitrary precision numbers, because the numbers came from strings initially...
 
@pekr Yes I do know that.
@HostileFork Actually I remember now. Give me a sec ...
 
12:45 PM
E.g. Doc, after long time, approved an experiment (well, with big initial hesitation :-) ), allowing to load/trap, once there is an error ...
 
@MarkI Doesn't it feel nice to have someone who listens to what you say? :-P
 
@pekr Yes, it is still in r3a (and ren-c AFAICT)
 
And people think I only talk and don't listen...
Not true, not true. :-)
 
The idea was you could build a Rebol based on a backing store of strings only. There would still be types, however, that "interpreted" the string data during use -- and thus there would have to be a syntax to the strings when input. That is, you couldn't have any arbitrary string be a number, for example.
 
@giuliolunati Do you build with address sanitizer? I'm about to make it easier to do so, e.g. make -f makefile.boot SANITIZE=yes.
 
12:48 PM
@pekr I of course am not saying it was "officially" abandoned. But all the examples I have seen are trivially breakable.
 
The executable size is too big to be putting up on the downloads page, I think. The sanitizer injects a ton of code.
I am baffled how any project bigger than Rebol can use it, guess Google gives people pretty big computers.
 
Trivial in the sense that even the most casual observer can see how it can't work in general, and in specific you don't need it.
 
I'm not supposed to say anything, but, in the "missing the point" department:
Compiling R:\test.red ...
*** Compilation Error: attempt to redefine a keyword: return
<shakes head>
 
@GrahamChiu I did. This is really a progress, but I'm waiting who will offer first synchronous IO, Red or R3n.
 
@sqlab Do you have a spec of what the program you want to run would look like?
I haven't exactly held back on my feelings that there's not any great design in the port model.
 
1:03 PM
Not at the moment. I just liked Rebol2 for the way to intercept TCP.
 
What I have proposed, and people haven't exactly enthusiastically embraced, was the idea that the ports should be a generic plan, if you didn't see what I was proposing, I'll try to summarize
If you say read http://whatever.com, that there is a "plan" or strategy, which turns that into something like port: open/with http://whatever.com [num-reads: 1] | data: read port | close port | data
 
I think that you first have to master synchronous IO and then later you can you can work asynchronously
 
Yes, I think READ by default should be synchronous.
But I think, even above, that the READ PORT I show, could break itself down as a generic plan, which is an async request plus wait
 
@HostileFork No, that's not what I want. I want to interfere at every stage and inspect manually.
 
Well, do you understand what I mean, when I say that the current port model is very liberal in letting ports interpret what "read" and "write" mean, but I'm proposing getting rid of that liberalness
Instead, saying there's a plan, all ports adhere to
And, like you say, you should be able to cut in at any phase of that generic plan
 
1:09 PM
With R3 you have to write the whole protocol / scheme before inspecting
 
But I am proposing there is no liberty in saying what read X means if X is not a PORT!. read X always means open X with info saying you're only doing one read in sideband, then you read it, then you close it, then you give the data.
The end.
 
So you want to constantly open and close ports? Have you ever seen TCP protocol socket communication in tools like Ethereal (Wireshark)?
 
You can open a port, and hold it open. I'm talking about behavior when X is not a port.
And I'm hand-waving with "num-reads: 1", it may be in the best interests of the model to basically embrace HTTP headers
 
OK
 
I want to open a port I can inspect in the console. I want to insert data into the port and I want to copy from the port without closing anf finishing.
 
1:13 PM
Instead of coming up with a new language for that
I do not see anywhere what I am suggesting is contentious with that.
 
I had to look up contentious.)
 
But I am wanting to limit the way in which these verbs compose, so that they follow a form; I do not want to give as much freedom as the current port model does; there's no "design" I can see.
@sqlab Vocabulary word of the day. :-)
The design seems to me to be this "plan" I describe, Rebol's edge.
 
I see the design of R3 and I think sometimes it's too ambitious.
 
And we need to know when you use a codec or not. read http://hostilefork.com vs load http://hostilefork.com... is read always BINARY! and the caller sorts it out, but load looks at the content-type, perhaps giving back STRING! or a structure?
@sqlab Don't remember if you read these slides or not, if not, worth the time I think: docs.google.com/presentation/d/…
 
I will have a look. Bye
 
1:19 PM
@sqlab l8r
 
1:49 PM
@HostileFork No, don't have ASAN on phone.
 
@giuliolunati Does it have valgrind?
 
Hrrrm
 
But in case of trouble I can build on PC
 
@giuliolunati Well, we have seen, that the ARM has some different situations that come up
It would be nice if the test suite could pass under valgrind or address sanitizer on ARM/Android, I do not know which would be easier to try
Maybe valgrind is easier?
So there is no "sudo apt-get valgrind" in the android shell?
 
1:53 PM
Not in mine
Maybe Termux has, but lacks gcc
 
Ok. Well, no pressure. :-) Just wondering.
There are a lot of asserts that things are working even without ASAN/Valgrind
@giuliolunati ... @ingo has voted a "I like it" on _ as BLANK!. Do you like it? I mentioned that R3-Alpha accepted # for NONE!, but rendered as the word "none" (bad round-tripping, to have a blank become a word). Do you have ideas or thoughts about blank?
So far it seems no one likes # for this, I cannot recall anyone ever saying they liked it.
But I think it shows, Carl was looking for a single-symbol for this purpose.
 
@HostileFork @MarkI about kwatz! -- I'm favorable, I think it as another string flavour (lit strings! are "{}" delimited, lit tags! are <> delimited, lit kwatz! are space delimited)
 
@giuliolunati Don't know what World did, but if evaluator ever managed to see a KWATZ!, it would have to be an error.
Not ignore it.
And obviously name needs to be UNKNOWN! or something more sane. :-P
In my conception, PARSE drives LOAD.
So LOAD is a userspace idea, built upon PARSE, which you could tweak and adapt to your liking.
The guts of PARSE would be optimized and tailored to help make this scenario nearly as fast as TRANSCODE, just expressed a bit more generically.
 
2:09 PM
@HostileFork (changed battery, sorry ...) about _ -- I use it, but has somewhat low visibility
 
@giuliolunati You use a very small screen! Has it been a notable problem?
 
Absolutely I don't like # for blank
 
No one does :-)
Do you like BLANK instead of NONE
 
@HostileFork No
@HostileFork yes!
I don't like ';' for comments
 
@giuliolunati I mentioned earlier I got confused, and started doing # comments like this and then getting errors, and when I changed it back to ; I thought, wow, it looked better with the #
I was really unhappy to turn it back to ; ...
 
2:13 PM
I'd like # or // for comments
Better #
 
Have to admit, I was feeling # is better, but Rebol uses it for many things
// has a benefit, in that, it's such a terrible WORD!, you don't want to say o: make object! [//: 10] | o///
 
But '# ' isn't used
 
So here you have a thing you would reasonably want to outlaw as a word, accepted in many languages... it doesn't fight for things the way # does.
And I mentioned I think the // has succeeded for reasons, those who say "no don't make Rebol look like C" forget that it does not come from C, and that it was likely not easy to get C to accept it into the standard but they did.
 
@HostileFork Good timing re: ASAN/Valgrind! I'm just pottering around with host-repl.r and unfortunately I'm getting following error :(
C Source File ../src/os/host-main.c, Line 896
unmanaged series was likely created during evaluator tick: 24329
series guard didn't trigger ASAN/Valgrind trap
:
either not a REBSER, or you're not running ASAN/Valgrind
 
@giuliolunati Used or not, I feel # is really overloaded, I don't like it for characters, I want to use &, e.g. HTML entities. &AElig
 
2:17 PM
Happens when I use do/load/import.
(in host-repl.r)
 
@HostileFork +1
 
Reason for do/load/import is to load in a users config so that you can skin the repl
 
@draegtun You're getting an error during running the startup code. If you have an IDE and want to Get Fancy, you can set a breakpoint in Fail_Core, that's the routine that gets called when a fail() in the C or a FAIL in the Rebol happens. When you set that breakpoint, you can look at the stack, and when you look at the stack you should get a tick count of which evaluator tick the error was on...
But, depends on how fancy you want to get. You could also just send it as a PR and have me look at it. :-)
 
No IDE... just Vim here
 
And I'll tell you what's going on
I keep meaning to do a little how-to video, like "how to diagnose malfunctioning Ren-C"
 
2:21 PM
OK... but generally there is no reason why something like.... do %/home/user/repl-skin.reb (which is empty) cannot be loaded/do from host-repl.r ??
 
@giuliolunati Well, just for the sake of argument, why don't you look at your Rebol code with // or #, try it on for size, think about it.
@draegtun File exists, but has no contents?
 
File exists. Tested with and without contents but get that ASAN/Valgrind error
tried DO, LOAD & IMPORT :(
 
That means there was an error, it's not robust to handle errors
If an error occurs during the running of the startup code that's bad
You could try probe trap [do %/home/user/repl-skin.reb]
But the problem is, the REPL is supposed to be the means by which errors are reported to the user.
So if the REPL itself errors, right now you get a panic
(Basically because if the REPL can't load, then what's the point of being graceful about it.)
 
OK here is there error which REPL now shows....
make error! [
    [self: code type id message near where arg1 __FILE__ __LINE__]
    [
        code: 3000
        type: Script
        id: no-value
        message: [:arg1 "has no value"]
        near: [...
            lib-get/(all [any [opt_GET any_GET] 'opt]) :source ??
        ]
        where: [lib-get either* get all --anonymous-- read either read-decode case load --anonymous-
        arg1: _
        __FILE__: %../src/core/n-data.c
        __LINE__: 664
    ]
]
 
Hum. Well, you're trying to GET a BLANK! somewhere, directly or indirectly.
e.g. something like a get any [false] is happening
Why? Who knows. If you don't have a debugger, just PR it, I'll tell you why
 
2:27 PM
ok
 
@draegtun Happy you're getting involved, so I'm quite happy to help. :-)
 
But just to note there is no other change except adding this do %....
 
Worth. My. Time.
 
@HostileFork maybe I wish // as an operator ...
 
@giuliolunati Well you see what I say above, how it sort of has troubles in general, being a WORD!.
It's a "bad word" :-)
@draegtun Arrite, well, the thing on StackOverflow is minimal complete verifiable examples, so exact diffs and exact situations helps
 
2:30 PM
@HostileFork yes, I agree -- I can live w/out it
 
I feel like # is a better comment character, though, so this is a tough thing to think about.
 
Thats OK... diff's fine... though at moment (for simplicity) the file and its path is only specific to me
 
I had favored // for a while, but I know there's definitely going to be a backlash on that
The # would need a space after it, obviously, as you say.
 
@HostileFork While here.... I prefer ; myself for comments. ; is also used in Lisp world. They have a convention of ; depth depending on message given
I nearly always do ;; when I comment :)
 
@draegtun I'm not looking to give ; any other function
But it is kind of "dirty", looks like a bug got squished on your screen, not very solid.
Doesn't provide the heft I want to break code from comment
And two ;; just looks like two bugs got squished :-)
Dotty and messy, doesn't have good graphic design shape
 
2:34 PM
i know... but i don't think ; will be useful elsewhere in Rebol... so makes sense to use as comment (methinks!)
 
Right, not looking for any other purpose, but thinking to repurpose # followed by space.
As no one likes that meaning "blank" that we've found
 
Never liked // for comments
 
I always loved that pattern
Semiotic
But I think // will indeed be a hard sell to Rebol people, and # might be much easier.
And, playing around with it, I like the # comments better.
(which surprised me, because almost every language that uses # for comments gives me pains, not for reasons of choice of comment character, but because I hate bash and makefiles and all that)
Anyway, no one is talking about taking ; away
 
I rather squash bugs ;; (no shift key needed) than use shift and what number is that c-sharp sign above again?
 
3, for 3x3, perhaps
 
2:42 PM
3x3 to play noughts and crosses
I once went to an internet cafe in Germany needed to send an email, it took me almost 5 minutes to find the @ because it was not in the right place. I copied and pasted one then saw where it was on the local keyboard.
 
Crazy moon keyboards. (in the scene, the crazy moon language he can't read is fairly basic spanish.)
 
@draegtun Looking!
 
Cheers.
On another note a question about make (outside chance it maybe related to problem in PR so worth bringing up now). If I do just make it rebuilds the r3 binary but doesn't pick up any changes I've made in hosts-repl.r
So I'm having todo make -f makefile.boot each time which I don't think is right :(
make all produces r3 binary but throws an error at the end :(
 
@draegtun Incremental building is a bit tricky when you have as much file generation based on scanning the C sources as there is. A lot of incremental builds comes from knowing things about the relationships between files, and it gets really mucked up when you are scanning the whole world with a preprocessor.
 
2:52 PM
Last page of this -
Undefined symbols for architecture i386:
  "_Host_Lib", referenced from:
      _Host_Crash in host-main.o
      _main in host-main.o
      _Close_Socket in dev-net.o
      _Accept_Socket in dev-net.o
      _Host_Crash in host-main.o
      _main in host-main.o
      _Close_Socket in dev-net.o
      _Accept_Socket in dev-net.o
     (maybe you meant: _Host_Lib_Init)
  "_N_quit", referenced from:
      _Do_Code in host-main.o
      _main in host-main.o
  "_N_resume", referenced from:
      _Do_Code in host-main.o
 
We can do better than we are doing, but it's kind of a matter of priorities. I've mentioned I want to be able to have the executable you're using extract its mezzanine to a folder, and let you edit that, and run from the local filesystem instead of the embedded bits, and then also let you re-image your edited mezzanine into the executable.
 
@HostileFork OK so its alright for me todo make -f makefile.boot each time to rebuild after changes?
(at this moment)
 
@draegtun It's best if I take the issue seriously and correct it, which I can.
I'm actually working on very much related issues right now
I've reproduced your crash
 
OK just bringing it up in case I'm causing some artifact for the issue/PR I have
so if its not me then good :)
@HostileFork Definitely not me then... phew :)
 
In a sense, the coming of new contributors is the kick in the butt I need and... HEY look it's @Morwenn!
 
2:56 PM
No more Red? Is Red dead? Is it redemption? :p
 
@Morwenn He's being a copyright troll and is becoming persona non-grata, sending cease and desist letters, and not really doing himself any favors, IMO
 
@HostileFork Not that I'm new ;-P But was a while ago and only something minor :(
 
Let's hope it's a temporary state of affairs.
 
@HostileFork Eh, why not CC0 everything and let it be?
 
@Morwenn Because we hate each other, and he thinks that the best way to get back at me is by being a jerk to people who aren't me.
Poor planning.
 
2:59 PM
Meh :/
 
Yup. How are you?
 
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