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12:21 AM
I believe that some github repos have a simple manual tagging approach such as add a comment to a ticket with [ add label XXX ] which are picked up by admins and added
Maybe this would work
"use your tags only or on issues that you yourself posted" this sounds like a good ground rule.
Finally found a useful summary of access permissions in github
I have assigned @Ladislav read which does not actually give him the abaility to add labels :-/
Unfortunately the granularity of the permissions is such that "Edit and delete anyone's comments on commits, pull requests, and issues" is at the same level of access as "Apply labels and milestones" (in their terminology "Write" access)
In summary, yes, I agree that I do not think most users should have delete capabilities for issues and discussions around issues which is what "Write" entails
 
12:37 AM
Give Ladislav the script and a turnkey way to import the issues to a repository as he sees fit.
He may have complete editing rights there.
And then, in terms of any further access on a shared ticket database, we can all discuss access to that under the shared terms.
There has been an absolute 0 statement of any real desire to collaborate with anyone else, so I don't see a reason to be trying to address the issues in a way that presumes such an interest.
 
@HostileFork I am not sure how that will work. Have you got a pointer to how this could work?
As an alternative to meet @Ladislav requirement to add tickets then we may need to have an alternative solution such as a bot user scanning new tickets for a specifically formatted comment along the lines of "please add label X to this ticket"
That way it at least keeps the discussion in one place??
 
It could be a RebolBot command.
 
In the mean time I will remove the "Read" access from @Ladislav as it doesn't solve the labelling issue he has and, as far as I understand, does not actually give any additional rights
@HostileFork how did I know you were going to say that :-)
 
If the bot could somehow poll comments and issues on the feed for instructions that would be pretty cool. Anything doing useful GitHub work is interesting...
 
@HostileFork seems quite doable.
Anyway, back to work BBL
 
12:46 AM
L8r. In other news, though I'm tired after doing some amount of battle with path dispatch, I may have figured out a missing link to specific binding...which is that not only ANY-WORD!s get marked with the relative bit in function bodies, but also ANY-ARRAY!s...using the same mechanism to avoid the bit pattern from escaping the block. It might just be the last piece needed.
So the funny thing about this is, that closures represented a lot of overhead and the question might be how all that information could somehow be elided if you don't copy.
Or roughly phrased: that was a lot of data. If you don't make any copy at all, where are you getting all that data from? But this answer is a bit crafty in that it's taking advantage of the existing "wastefulness" of "boxed" Rebol values being so "large"...by threading the information through in the values themselves.
 
 
8 hours later…
8:46 AM
UCBLogo http://pt.unionpedia.org/UCBLogo #Austrália #Scratch #StarLogo #REBOL #Lisp #Unix #Logo #Smalltalk #KTurtle #NetLogo #Subrotina
 
9:35 AM
>> Hi
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-no-value.html
    *** ERROR
** Script error: Hi has no value
** Where:
** Near: try load/all join %/users/try-REBOL/data/ system/script/args...
 
:)
 
@RebolBot hi
 
@HostileFork hi to you too
 
@ParasDPain Welcome. The workings of RebolBot are that it implements a "dialect" which is what it will use if you say @RebolBot some stuff on the same line. However, if you say >> some code here it does not use the dialect, it just runs the code in what we call "DO".
This demonstrates the feature of how the same "box of parts" used to program in can become your own "box of parts" in a dialect.
 
10:10 AM
@Hostile
@HostileFork Oh I see
 
@RebolBot
my-language: func [code] [
    foreach item code [
        either tag? item [print "TAG!"] [print mold item]
    ]
]

my-language [print <doesn't always> print <need to mean> print <print!>]
 
@RebolBot Why you do this
 
@ParasDPain What do you mean?
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
print
TAG!
print
TAG!
print
TAG!
@ParasDPain What are you trying to say?
@ParasDPain Can you elaborate on that?
 
@RebolBot I mean why do you reply?
 
10:12 AM
@ParasDPain The bot repeats itself at times. Anyway, above you can see that it's very easy to come up with new interpretations of the symbols. See Homoiconicity
The bot uses a sort of chatterbot ELIZA-like thing if it doesn't know what you said.
It's not terribly interesting to talk to but more fun than an error message.
 
@HostileFork I see and how do I know whether you are a bot or not? Looks like Good cop/Bad cop to me Haha
@RebolBot sing me a song
 
@ParasDPain Can you elaborate on that?
 
@RebolBot No I will not, go figure it out
 
@ParasDPain Can you be a little more specific?
 
10:15 AM
@HostileFork Hahahaha okey
@Rebolbot 42?
 
@ParasDPain What?
 
@rebolbot the meaning of life isnt it
 
@ParasDPain I'm not sure I understand...
 
posted on February 08, 2016 by ladislav

This may be a surprising finding for some people, but here are the arguments why non-transitive equal? leads to trouble: lesser-or-equal? should be transitive for it to be a linear order on decimals. If it weren't transitive, existing sorting algorithms would not work correctly using it. (To see why this is a problem, check #2251 and #2218.) greater-or-equal? should be transitive for it to

 
@rebolbot K I will be back later. Bye
 
10:16 AM
@ParasDPain Can you be a little more specific?
 
@HostileFork See ya later clever bot
 
@ParasDPain Anyway, you can save some time looking at the source for the "shrink" script
 
@rebolbot Bye Bye
 
@ParasDPain Bye to you too
 
 
1 hour later…
11:28 AM
@johnk It looks that Ladislav can label issues, see #2259. I have no problem with it--as long as there is no trouble--and outlining problems with equality is in the category of "not trouble", and I agree it is a problem.
I still think it is early yet to be giving privileges before a demonstrated willingness to discuss what it is we are attempting to collectively achieve, and on what codebase, etc.
 
12:09 PM
@HostileFork good that labelling stuff is working
 
@johnk I would be happy just being able to add tags "Ren-C.dismissed", "Ren-C.reviewed", "Ren-C.resolved"... so as long as there are tagging rights to be given out, that is what I could make use of.
 
12:33 PM
@HostileFork sounds fair to me. Having a quick look at the red github instance issue labels as well github.com/red/red/labels
A good start would be to add these labels to make it easier to work across both red and rebol
 
@johnk Same where possible would be good.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:04 PM
@HostileFork You have discovered the main reason paths must begin with words. The same thing happens to X in X/day: 1 but it is not confusing.
 
@MarkI That's not the conclusion I would draw, especially because I disagree with it. Just pointing it out.
I noticed in the GOB/size/x: whatever case that what it does is it actually keeps running the set path forward. So GOB/size generates a projected PAIR!... then it asks the rest of the path to run including a set, and that set writes the temporary. But then it comes back to control of the GOB! dispatcher, which does an interpretation of the updated temporary to write back as if you had used the ordinary GOB/size: whatever
I found it did this when I tried to stop all writes to temporaries, that would have no observable effect. So things more like (12-Dec-2012 + 1)/day: 10. But the two places making active use of this are GOB! and STRUCT! for their "oh, I'll look at what happens to the temporary down the set-path chain and then interpret it back" bit
It's rather inefficient, in that if you have a C array in a struct of 1000 integers, and you say my-struct/int-array/10: 20 ... it will actually explode my-struct/int-array to a BLOCK! of 1000 INTEGER!... then it will update item 10 to 20... then it will go and write back all 1000 integers from the block. :-/
 
@HostileFork I am saying that it is the indirection at the head that makes set-paths usable. Otherwise you are modifying literals, as you have shown.
 
There are no lexical constants.
 
Literal then? (changed in place)
 
Not held in a variable.
 
2:13 PM
That's a roundabout way of saying constant.
 
Obviously it's not constant.
 
When it is entered it is.
 
Well, being as I wanted to make function bodies constant, I of course have a mind to say that there should likely be policies against this kind of thing. I don't know where that policy should live exactly. It's the kind of thing one shouldn't be doing unless one meant to.
 
When you put it in a variable, or some other location, then it is not a constant.
I am shooting from the cuff here, as usual, just to warn you and everyone :/
 
Anyway, I wouldn't have bothered with paths except they were in the way of specific binding.
 
2:16 PM
Paths are important. Forgive my blabberings, paths really need serious treatment. They have to have a story that I haven't had time to think about yet.
 
Well, think about them I guess. Questions about the mechanical handling of paths that aren't often typed in remain. Should a 1-element path act just like that 1 element would act if it weren't in a path? (I think probably yes.) Should a 0-element path act just like an unset? (I think probably yes.)
I am remaining of the opinion that /foo is a rendering of a path with NONE! at the head. NONE! instead of unset because of the slipperiness of working with unsets. That append '/foo 'bar is the 3-element path /foo/bar. Also, that these are "live" and the essential way of saying this->foo.bar(...)
 
 
1 hour later…
3:46 PM
@HostileFork @MarkI I wonder if MOLD could return a code block instead of a string....
 
@giuliolunati Well, it wouldn't be mold then, as that's sort of defined as what it is supposed to do... !
You would know better than most what mold does right now :-)
 
3:59 PM
>> m: map [1 2] m/3: 4 do probe load mold m
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
[make map! [
        1 2
        3 4
    ]]
== make map! [
    1 2
    3 4
]
 
>> load-mold: func[v][load mold v] load-mold map [1 2]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== [make map! [
        1 2
    ]]
 
@HostileFork I wonder if a native version of load-mold ---^ could be useful...
 
@giuliolunati I think we're mostly skeptical of that MAKE syntax as a MOLD result, as opposed to having a correct construction syntax or literal form. Having a really good answer for that is still a big open question. But in map's case, the literal syntax in Red is I think, for instance #(1 2 3 4)
Though the idea of being able to get back various kinds of code that would create things is an idea, to reverse engineer source code... to get back a FUNC or PROC definition, etc.
@redbot
foo: func [return: [integer!]] [
    return "some string"
]
foo
 
4:12 PM
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== "some string"
 
I was wondering what the error message said, redbot. But I guess there is no error message.
 
@HostileFork
gcc ../src/core/a-constants.c -c -DTO_LINUX -DTO_LINUX_X86 -DREB_API -m32 -DENDIAN_LITTLE -DHAS_LL_CONSTS -O2 -fvisibility=hidden -I. -I../src/include/ -I../src/codecs/ -o objs/a-constants.o
In file included from ../src/include/sys-core.h:157:0,
from ../src/core/a-constants.c:33:
../src/include/sys-value.h:1027:5: error: unknown type name ‘Reb_Binding_Target’
Reb_Binding_Target target;
^
I got this error on 64 bit Linux
 
@ingo Ah, thanks. C++ build allows one to omit the struct definition, I should have checked.
 
@HostileFork No problem, compiling and noticing errors isn't much, but something I can do from time to time.
 
@ingo Keeps me paying attention :-) but have been doing C++ lately. Very slight difference: github.com/metaeducation/ren-c/commit/…
I've reached a sort of point-of-no-return on the specific binding. It better work. (odds currently seem very high, but it's a lot of change.)
 
4:41 PM
@HostileFork Yup, works again! Thank you!
 
@ingo Are you doing anything in particular besides building? Tried any varargs or specialization? New stuff so I'm sure there are breakages to be found, but the design seems reasonable.
As I mention, I get bothered when I want to do cool demos like:
foo: func [x [integer! <...>]] [
    unless tail? x [print take x | foo x]
]
It's sort of the simple thing that people from other languages would want to try on day 1. But the stupid dynamic binding breaks it, and it breaks everything, which is why I have to stop it.
And forcing people to choose between function and closure is not an answer -- how would people really know which to choose, it's just one of those "noise" decisions...
 
@HostileFork Not much so far. Played a little with varargs, and what I tried, worked. But nothing esoteric like your example.
 
I don't think it's esoteric. :-)
In some languages, it's not using recursion that's esoteric...
 
Having varargs eat the rest of my script looked too freightening, so at the moment I test if the first arg is an object, and if not, I take a predefined number of arguments.
For an unspecified number of arguments I feel better using a block.
 
Most varargs things decide the number of args from something they see first.
Like printf("%x %y %z", ...)... there are 3 percents, so it knows 3 things
Note that | can be used to stop the varargs, and is mechanically speaking cheaper than a block.
(It does not stop hard-quoted varargs)
 
4:50 PM
Yes, I know about | but guess I'll need some time to get used to them.
 
They work best at starts of lines.
my-dialect [
    | foo baz bar
    | mumble frotz 1 2 3
    | more instructions here
]
my-dialect [
    [foo baz bar]
    [mumble frotz 1 2 3]
    [more instructions here]
]
The contrast in approaches would be that in the latter form, your dialect has essentially sacrificed blocks to grouping.
In the first, you might make divisions optional (you may want to omit them) but also you could use blocks for other non-group meanings at your top level.
my-dialect [
    | [block line] a b c d e
    | some sequence not starting with block (means something else)
    | 1 2 3
]
my-dialect [
    [[block line] a b c d e]
    [some sequence not starting with block (means something else)]
    [1 2 3]
]
 
I'll have to think about it ... and now, you know ... I have to go. bbl
 
Anyway, something to think about in the motif of a language seeking to help with removing boilerplate.
Naturally...later...
 
BTW, does parse handle | specially in source?
in the to be parsed block, I mean ...
 
Not currently, no
You can use quote | to reference a BAR!, or alternately parse a literal | with '|
("lit-bar!")
 
4:58 PM
OK, CU
 
 
4 hours later…
8:48 PM
@rgchris @ShixinZeng Does anyone use the Codec_Markup? I'd imagine it's not very good compared to the altxml or otherwise, and the last thing we need is to be maintaining C code for parsing HTML/XML.
 
@HostileFork I don't think we're using it
 
There are too many projects in the project. :-/
 
@HostileFork I have a question for you. Is every value in the paramlist of a function a typeset! ?
 
@ShixinZeng The [0] value is a FUNCTION! value of the function itself, but all the others should be typesets.
 
uh, [0], that might be the one that caught me
Thanks!
what's in varlist[0] of a function?
 
8:54 PM
A FUNCTION! has a paramlist, a spec, and a body...but no varlist.
However, its paramlist can serve as the keylist for a FRAME!
And in the case of a FRAME!, the varlist's [0] element is the FRAME! value of that frame.
 
@HostileFork This probably relates to what in Rebol 2 was LOAD/MARKUP which I'd suggest gets used by some scraping scripts:
>> decode 'markup to binary! "<foo>Bar"
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== [<foo> "Bar"]
 
@rgchris If necessary can a compatibility wrapper for decode be made to get basically the same output from altxml?
 
@HostileFork Ok, thanks. I was confused with frame!
 
I'd be on the side of saying "If a parse-based solution to reading in HTML written in Rebol cannot be serviceable enough, and instead needs to have C code like this then the language really should give up now". The use of C should be very specific.
 
9:09 PM
@ShixinZeng Note the comments do keep evolving and hopefully getting better over time.
 
Thanks. I am reading the comment
 

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