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1:31 AM
>> source ++
 
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++: make native! [[
    {Increment an integer or series index. Return its prior value.}
    'word [word!] "Integer or series variable"
]]
 
Dang, I thought this was available for Rebol2
why would you want to return the prior value?
 
Because x: 1 y: ++ x print y would make too much sense to people who program in C if it printed out 2.
 
in C there's an increment before and an increment after operator?
 
Yes, and the post-increment appears in the name C++.
 
1:46 AM
so the post increment can't be easily done in Rebol
it would require operator precedence
if one were to assume Rebol programmers think like C programmers
 
Fun with having both pre-increment and post-increment... "sequence points":
2
Q: Which of the following combinations of post & pre-increment operators have undefined behaviour in C?

clawsI've read, Could anyone explain these undefined behaviors (i = i++ + ++i , i = i++, etc...) and tried understanding Sequence points on "comp.lang.c FAQ" after wasting more than 2 hours of time trying to explain the following results by gcc compiler. expression(i=1;j=2) i j k k = ...

"what counts as pre-expression, vs post?"
 
This is stupid .. got 8 upvotes for my answer on a question about bleeding more if you drink alcohol.
@HostileFork whether it returns the value before or after
oh well, fake money
 
Meta votes now officially count for nothing. So I got a bunch of internet points that are even more fake than usual.
 
2:02 AM
well, meta downvotes just mean that someone doesn't like your idea. Not whether it's correct or not.
I have a meta proposal I want to suggest.
I'd like to see the distribution of reputation points on those who vote on your question/answer.
This way it still remains anonymous, but you can get an idea of who is voting
In the same way that Amazon allows you to rank a product from 1* to 5* and pretty much every other ranking system.
But rather than try to alter the way the voting works, just give us more information.
 
The big meta proposal is that we need to get back to thinking more about how to decentralize the Internet again. There are good ideas and enabling tech for doing it, but the balance is still leaning toward centralized services...where whether something gets tried or not depends on whether the powers-that-be get around to it.
 
I'm also wondering if we need an official Rebol channel on youtu.be
 
Red and Rebol podcast. Something people can listen to while walking or driving. More of a niche market it's a niche where the same distractions don't exist...and there's not a lot of good material.
 
2:18 AM
are there any redbol podcasts?
that would be like programming in text
 
 
2 hours later…
4:14 AM
@kealist have you compiled in the C interface yet ?
 
 
1 hour later…
5:16 AM
Aug 1 '13 at 16:11, by rgchris
user image
@rgchris If you would like to contribute this to the red branding project, or anyone else would, then if you have source files in any particular format and high-res versions you might want to get them together.
They could be an idea pool to draw from later. In any case, I've drawn up my legal advice for the "trademarky" logos that are being outlined for identification and app-stores. Need to keep leverage to do takedowns when stuff like VLC fakes show up and charge in the window app store
I thought it might be nice if there were other things, that were not mixed up as trademarks, which might be collected.
 
5:52 AM
** Script Error: error has no value
** Near: error/fatal "Sorry commands could not be loaded"
I wrote that from Rebol, a programmer's guide book
I got the free PDF copy from Lulu
 
@user3398747 define error first
error/fatal "Sorry commands could not be loaded" calls error function, that is not defined yet.
 
then the second part is not what defines the function?
oh, I need to put it before?
let's see
 
@user3398747 "Function values" are assigned to variables like any other. So error: func [...params...] [...body...] actually assigns a value representing the function to be what you get when you look up the word "error".
The default behavior when you reference a word naming a function value is to call it. But if you don't want to call it, but instead want to work with that function as a value, you can use a couple of different ways. One is a "get-word".
@RebolBot
foo: :print
foo "Hello there"
 
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Hello there
 
In other words, there's nothing special going on. No lookahead that finds all the functions first. But as there is code running to build the functions, you can be tricky.
 
6:03 AM
okay.
 
@RebolBot
params: [x [integer!] y [string!]]

foo: func params [print x]
bar: func params [print x print y]

foo 10 "Hello"
bar 20 "Rebol"
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
10
20
Rebol
 
@user3398747 So there you see an interesting property. You didn't have to repeat the parameters twice. You passed it as a block to the function generator FUNC. Which is, itself, a function that makes function values...
So what I meant by "nothing special going on" I should have said "there is nothing unique going on in the assignment of function values to words vs other things." Lots of special stuff in the other sense. :-)
 
I see,
 
6:36 AM
c0d3, Chennai, India
52 7
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 52 so chat away!
 
>> type? redis:like:key
 
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== url!
 
Hey @c0d3, hello.
 
@HostileFork That's very interesting.
 
Since the end of the Red ad, not a lot of visitors, I've forgotten how to reply to them...
 
6:42 AM
@rgchris What's the syntax for pseudo-elements in StyleTalk? I can't get it to work.
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== {/* CSSR Output */

/** CSSR Output Begin */


.x {
}

#000000 {
}


/* CSSR Output End **/
}
 
>> do reb4.me/r/cssr to-css [.x :after black]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== {/* CSSR Output */

/** CSSR Output Begin */


.x {
^-color: black;
}


/* CSSR Output End **/
}
 
hai @HostileFork
 
@rgchris Nevermind, I figured it out, I need to use with.
 
6:46 AM
@c0d3 We're here discussing the Rebol and Red languages, if you have not heard of them. They are somewhat different than what you've seen, Probably. I think this is a good introduction if you want to take a quick look...
red> print [{And we have...} (reverse {STOBOR}) {!!!}]
@redbot delete
rebol3> print [{And we have...} (reverse {STOBOR}) {!!!}]
 
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And we have... ROBOTS !!!
 
redbot is young still. Doesn't know all the words. :-)
 
@HostileFork sure
 
 
1 hour later…
8:06 AM
The obvious answer is as a script, but what is the best method to ask another rebol process to execute some code?
As a script? As a molded block of rebol values?
 
8:37 AM
@HappySpoon If you're thinking of it as a molded block of Rebol values, then that can't work in the general case. You can tailor cases so it does... some code will work. But to get any generality guarantee for code from someone else to work cross process, you'll have to pass that as a string or script that hasn't gone through evaluation.
 
it's easier to create rebol blocks ... pity
when creating a script as a string, you have to add spaces, quotes for string values etc. PITA.
 
If you are creating the blocks for the code in a controlled environment, where you know you're not building weird structures that won't mold out safely, then it shouldn't be any different than coding with strings; if you make sure to get your types right.
 
So, what doesn't mold and unmold safely?
 
Those usual examples about how you can create a block that says [a a] and they're references to two different a
 
So, probably better to create it as a block of values, and have a function that iterates through it turning it into a string.
 
8:49 AM
Well that won't help you in the [a a] case if that's supposed to represent code, and the first a is a function and the second a is an integer. The sender can run it, the receiver can't.
 
the script is self contained
 
Well, if you don't break the rules then it should work. Note that append code-block reverse http://hostilefork.com would count as "breaking the rules"
That one would be solvable with construction syntax, if such a solution were available and mold would put it out.
But others are not generically solvable. If you are just doing symbolic manipulation where there is no binding involved, and [a a] always meant the same thing as [a a] the string... then yes, I think you can do that. With above caveats.
Your code will also not be able to carry semicolon-style comments with it, as a sidenote.
 
mold removes comments
 
>> mold [comment ["Does it?"]]
 
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== {[comment ["Does it?"]]}
 
8:55 AM
I'd say that LOAD removes comments, and building code blocks structurally has no means to add them.
Just pointing out another of the differences in character that you'll get by building the code structurally and molding it. Less whitespace control, also.
But it should be safe if you follow the rules...
 
red> print [now { is lunchtime here} ]
 
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18-Jul-2014/10:57:41+2:00  is lunchtime here
 
>> mold [
; a comment
none
]
 
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== "[^/    none^/]"
 
gone!
 
8:59 AM
...but the input to the whole process was a string, that had to be loaded...before run... :-)
 
9:11 AM
I'm trying to improve my proggie by offloading all all blocking http operations to slave processes.
 
red> print [now/precise { is lunchtime here} ]
 
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1405675126  is lunchtime here
 
10:18 AM
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 1159 so chat away!
 
>> print ["Bienvenu" reverse {nilraM-ekuL@}]
 
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Bienvenu @Luke-Marlin
 
10:55 AM
I started keeping pretty good notes on things while looking into Node.JS stuff, but the notes in the source started getting too long as I wanted to actually focus on the code. Extracting notes and putting them in blog entries. Here's one on Underscore.JS
Until the C++/C++11 experience, and then Rebol2/Rebol3/Red, I hadn't really spent time looking at how languages change. Basically just using languages and thinking about how they were different. Seeing the JavaScript tradeoffs are odd and depressing on a technical level--as one would expect.
It would be interesting to really get that list of what the successes and failures are in terms of how it might refocus "what to get right" in the Red/Rebol space. What kinds of mistakes wind up costing the most? The least?
 
@HostileFork If you haven't seen it, you might be interested in Guy Steele's take as well:
3
 
The JavaScript pattern seems to be that if you are successful, you do not have to worry about improving the things that people have managed to work around. You don't grow your market by being cleaner about what people showed they would put up with; the people who wouldn't put up with it won't suddenly love your lousy language because you went back to address their complaints.
@earl Book-marked, thanks...I'll remember to look tomorrow...late here.
 
11:11 AM
Here's a written version of the talk: Growing a Language, Guy Steele
 
Tx.
 
11:24 AM
Re JavaScript in particular, note that there is this whole ES6/Harmony process going on. Not the easiest of births, though.
Most recent target date is 2014-12, it seems. Well.
 
11:38 AM
@Oldes Sorry, I think I don't understand your question :) Current R3 has problems in MSYS2/ConsoleZ? If so, what kind of problems?
 
11:57 AM
@HappySpoon Once I finish moving, I will do so and try to convert over some of the various library interfaces to see how they work in Rebol 3
 
 
1 hour later…
1:09 PM
@kealist about libffi dependency, it's possible to integrate the source into rebol build, which just hasn't been done yet, because it's very easy to install on (most) linux systems, and I think we better use system libraries when possible (to better integerated with the system, rather than to be an isolated system itself)
 
 
3 hours later…
3:53 PM
@HappySpoon A Rebol message. Possibly a dialect as opposed to a script?—That'd be your call. There are kinks in SAVE/ALL/HEADER, but that'd surely be edge cases in your scenario.
If you're passing over user-submitted data, you could preprocess with my VALIDATE dialect.
do reb4.me/r/validate
rule: [address: url! ["http" opt "s" "://" to end]]
probe validate [address "http://rebol.com"] rule
probe validate [address "something else"] rule
 
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[address rebol.com]
none
== none
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
[address rebol.com]
none
== none
 
@RebolBot alive?
 
 
3 hours later…
7:05 PM
Is this a bug? Certainly shouldn't ignore the extra string content, right?
>> to date! "2014-07-12T12:00Z"
 
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== 12-Jul-2014
 
@rgchris Better to throw an error if you give it a format it doesn't like than to just ignore. But there has been a lot of resistance to a "formal theory of TO". So often the answer is "TO is whatever it does". Right? Wrong? It's TO.
Not the way I like to think, but...
 
I am open to TO or something like TO (such as my AS) that liberally interprets the content of a string, but I do think it should interpret the whole string.
It'd be similarly a bit weird if you were to do to url! "http://some/path/or/other" and have it return http://some/
Use the whole, or fail.
 
8:06 PM
Rebol2> to date! "2014-7-12t12:00z"
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== 12-Jul-2014
 
 
1 hour later…
TGD
9:31 PM
Hi all,

I've finished a new project with Rebol3 on the Raspberry Pi. It is called PiEM-It!
PiEM is the abbreviation of π-Energy-Monitor.
Take a look at http://piem.tgd-consulting.de for my smart metering solution based on Rebol3 and the Raspberry Pi.
Note: The webserver and the CGIs used are entirely written in Rebol3. Except for the drawing of the charts gnuplot is used, which is directly called by r3.
2
 
nice
 
10:23 PM
@TGD Seems like your website is having problems.
 

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