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12:13 AM
@ShixinZeng @earl I need to move on the errors. I've mentioned my personal strong feeling that the lexical advantage of calling a disruption of control flow out via a special macro syntax is important.
It is not technically the case that needs to be tied with a decision of a signal via a single (in debug build) global/thread-local variable. raise could stay paired exclusively with Error(), and panic is the far less common thing, and arguably need not run through the same mechanics at all.
However, my argument would be: it's important to me, it's a lot better than where it was, it's not hard to change if it turns out to be a problem down the road. So I'd prefer any resistance to it be based on a concrete way in which it fails in the paradigm the codebase operates under now.
^-- single "in release build" thread-local variable
 
12:51 AM
Ah, the joys of C. If a memory allocation can trap on being out of memory, then you will leak any partially built structures.
 
1:04 AM
Being able to fully recover in response to an arbitrary failed memory allocation isn't really C's strong suit. We could have a top-level memory trap that prunes manual series--basically treat it like a HALT, trust there are no non-KEEP manuals outstanding unreachable by the root set, and GC anything that is. (But allow them to exist then-and-only-then.)
This makes the response to an out of memory error somewhat slower than the response to other errors, but prevents the need to have release builds track all outstanding manuals in a linked list (the way debug builds do now).
 
@earl Thanks. Short term I'll return issues to what they were previously, which is words as if from the second character.
Sorry, that is changing one thing: commas in issues will be disallowed; yell at me whoever depends on that.
I'll make sure it's easy to put them (commas) back in, at least.
But I warn everyone that there have been lots of changes in lots of places that will ruin trying to put R2's word-strings into R3.
 
Things are going to change, we just need to get a grip on how they are changing.
Well...out of memory errors and stack overflows definitely present a conundrum to the idea of release builds not knowing how to free manual series that are in play. The main problem there is that maintaining the tracking list at present costs two pointer-sized objects per series, which is too much.
I don't mind paying for something that costs a GC sweep when either happens, that's not a problem.
The problem is: how to tell which manual series are for this trap level? I guess you could put the current trap state pointer in the series... that's a single pointer instead of two. All series with pointers at the trap level are guaranteed to be cleaned up by frees if a trap doesn't happen, and then the trap can do it if the trap does happen.
Then there's out-of-band list, but that costs in search time to remove. But the number of manuals outstanding at any point in time is expected to be relatively small.
 
1:29 AM
>> print [type? 0:0 type? /0:0]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
time! refinement!
 
Super. Badness.
 
I'd call that a two-element path with a time in it: PATH! [NONE! TIME!]
 
I only mention it because refinements are actually worse than issues, allowing colons like that.
 
Whatever you do, please have an eye toward how it might be adapted to plug in as a path-with-a-time-in-it
 
1:46 AM
Whatever you tell me to do, please have pity on me:
>> type? /a:#@$%
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== refinement!
 
We need a Q*BERT! type.
"Art director Richard Tracy changed the name to 'Q-bert', and the dash was later changed to an asterisk. In retrospect, Davis expressed regret for the asterisk, because he felt it prevented the name from becoming a common crossword term and it is a wildcard character for search engines."
"Among my greatest regrets, is that Q*BERT never really broke into the crossword puzzle scene as a word. I guess that... and never finding out who my biological parents were."
 
2:04 AM
>> map-each x [{%} {%:} {%:%} {%:%:} {%:%:%} {%:%:%:} {%:%:%:%}] [attempt [load join ":" x]]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== [none none :%:% none :%:%:% none :%:%:%:%]
 
I was attempting to fix that. I thought it was a bug. What an idiot I am! </rant>
 
2:17 AM
rebol2> do "[:a :a: :a:a :a:a: :a:a:a]"
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== [:a :a :a:a :a:a :a:a:a]
 
Maybe we want that behaviour back for Rebol3. How am I supposed to know?
OK, I'm done venting, apologies to the group.
 
rebol2> type? :a:a
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-no-value.html
    *** ERROR
code: 300
type: script
id: no-value
arg1: :a:a
arg2: none
arg3: none
near: [type? :a:a]
where: none
 
R3 is used to parse the input, you need to quote it.
 
2:25 AM
@MarkI We shouldn't support word naturals with colons inside them.
 
@HostileFork One vote for sanity. Yay!
Including refinements?
 
To me, a refinement is a path with a word in it.
So yes, including refinement. And I also don't want (personally) get-word naturals with leading digits "just because we can", so I would differ from what earl said on that.
(Allowing for different behavior on issues due to being uncertain on their word status)
I feel there's no getting around freeing manual series in the case of a trap, and it costs a little to do so, which is frustrating. The more frustrating thing in general is that it's a sort of halfway solution to a general problem that needs proper exception handling.
 
@HostileFork I don't want words, get-words, lit-words, set-words, issues, and refinements to each have different definitions of "natural".
With the possible exception of issues, when they return to being strings. Not before.
I have no choice at the moment, however.
I should add that it is possible I could change my mind, if I heard a convincing argument.
For example, there are good reasons why slash-words cannot have issue or refinement forms, or appear in natural paths at all.
 
3:07 AM
@johnk With @earl mentioning the "couple of weeks of busy", hopefully this does not mean the CureCode import needs to wait on that. :-/ Any chance we can forge ahead with that?
 
3:36 AM
@MarkI possible Certain exception...
 
 
2 hours later…
5:26 AM
What are we doing about Rebol demos?
Is there a common repo we should be using?
 
5:44 AM
@GrahamChiu I had hoped that rebol.net would be a launchpoint to subdomains where various projects would be hosted by people who would make their own websites, and if something happened to their ability to run or maintain the site then community interests would retake the subdomain.
rebmu.rebol.net for instance.
power-mezz.rebol.net, altjson.rebol.net, etc. etc.
 
6:04 AM
well, since rebol.net has stayed down, perhaps we need to use the rebol github repo
 
Do you have a new demo?
 
 
1 hour later…
7:14 AM
No, but I'm thinking of it :)
I just think Gists will get lost
 
@GrahamChiu RebolBot is all kinds of demo waiting to happen.
 
@HostileFork rebolbot is under my repo
maybe we just need a repo which just consists of links then
 
posted on September 03, 2015 by hostilefork

This was a question early on, as to whether it should be the responsibility of code using series to find a way to free the manual series they'd allocated if an error was going to be trapped... or if it should be handled automatically. Handling it automatically meant that some extra tracking would have to be in the release build--while not handling it meant the tracking would only be in t

 
I presume that it's not easy for the rebol repo to clone/fork other repos if there are 1000s eventually
what do you think? Is there a way for eg. a rebol.org repo to track 100s of other rebol related repos?
 
@GrahamChiu I've said what I think before generally, which is that rebol.org should be the "vetted" and "standards" location, while rebol.net the "hackage" or NPM equivalent, inventorying just random whatevers.
So on that theme, rebol.org taking the graphical cue from rebolsource.net...minimal, grays, professional, uniform. rebol.net more diverse.
As for how it's done... I dunno.
 
7:27 AM
but rebol.net remains down
 
Well, I guess people just didn't get onto it. Carl already said that rebol.net and rebol.org were for the community to have/run, and already was...(or at least already was in rebol.org's case)
It takes a lot of pestering to make things happen.
(in some universes)
rebol.info exists, and I don't know how that's going.
But it seems to stay running with the altme mirror.
 
My distrust of private websites is that they disappear with time
>> to string! read rebolforces.com
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== 202.150.60.79
 
hmm. Is it back up?
>> to string! read rebolforces.com
Nope, still down
 
 
1 hour later…
9:03 AM
@ShixinZeng Note the above regarding the ultimate need to do manual series cleanup in the case of a trap... there's really not a way around it that I can see. Note also I went ahead and went back to the two cases you had to change for the previous rule, which should now be safe to not manage.
 
9:34 AM
@HostileFork I hope so. Things keep cropping up for me, but I am making progress on the script. I need to do the testing around the textile markup behaviour, but I am not too worried about it. My main concern is the broken behaviour of the api means I need to test for issue creation another way. Probably just wait 2 seconds then a simple unauthenticated get on the issue number to check for a 200
 
@johnk Well speak up if anything would help you along. I guess the main thing from @earl is just getting the repo set up to put them in. I'm personally still of the opinion that it would be nice if people could provide an account to use instead of RebolBot, but if that delays it more than 2 days I would be willing to say forget it.
 
@HostileFork rebol.info is on the same box as rebolbot. @rgchris is making good use of it with the altme mirror
@HostileFork it is harder to do both the backdating and use other peoples accounts. The backdating api is limited to admin users and it makes all the updates including comments in a single post request so all comments would need to be owned by the one user
Which is more important, correct dates or correct users?
 
@johnk Correct dates, probably.
 
(my vote is correct dates)
snap
we could do the initial issue creation using the backdating api then add the comments using the other api with the correct users, but that is probably even worse
 
Well let me try and understand what you're saying here. I'd assume all the user accounts could be made admins of the repository during the import, so the admin-ness is not really an issue?
(Presumably they'd be admins after the import anyway)
 
9:46 AM
@HostileFork yes, that sounds ok
 
"it makes all the updates including comments in a single post request"
 
The backdating API which earl found lets you update 1 entire issue in a single HTTP POST request including title,body,tags,open/close status,comments etc and with the original creation date
 
And all of those are assigned to the same user?
 
Aug 30 at 12:18, by johnk
@HostileFork FYI this is the github import approach that @earl found I am reading it again in more detail and I think I misread it first time through
@HostileFork yes, as far as I understand
{
  "issue": {
    "title": "Imported from some other system",
    "body": "...",
    "created_at": "2014-01-01T12:34:56Z",
    "assignee": "jonmagic",
    "milestone": 1,
    "closed": true,
    "labels": [
      "bug",
      "low"
    ]
  },
  "comments": [
    {
      "created_at": "2014-01-02T12:34:56Z",
      "body": "talk talk"
    }
  ]
}
 
I'd imagine there are probably a lot of issues where the poster and any commenters are the same.
 
9:50 AM
This is the full set of fields you can send .. hm .. maybe the assignee could be useful for allocating ownership
 
So you could say if the poster and all comments are the same person and have ID, use their account for it... otherwise use RebolBot's.
That way you're still only using one technique to post.
 
@HostileFork yes, that could be done. On wrong laptop so I can't do any quick stats to say how many fit in that bucket
 
It's just in one case, you need to do the little decoration bit to say who said it.
 
yep
 
You are hereby granted authority to not worry about finding a better way than that to do it. :-)
 
10:00 AM
Let me just count how many tickets have all the comments by the same user who created them. If it is a small number it is probably not worth it
 
@johnk Wouldn't an issue with no comments (probably many of them) qualify, and wouldn't it need to use the backdating API too?
 
@HostileFork yes, I suppose so
 
You really only need two accounts to test it I guess, yours and RebolBot's...have a table of names to GitHub credentials and map them all to you for starters.
I've frozen posting to CureCode, and no one else is, and if they do we can tell them to stop :-) So you can get a final snapshot and go ahead and do a test import whenever you're ready into your scratch repository. We can all take a little time to look to see if anything is off.
If there's anything you're worried about being "not quite perfect" we can contemplate it and go "yeah we don't care" or "okay, that we care about" at that point.
 
So to summarise - if no comments and we have the user id post as that user, if comments and all comments made by the ticket creator and we have the user id then post as that user, if we don't have the user id or the comments are made by different users than post everything as rebolbot, but add in attribution to the top of each message or comment
 
Given the constraints you've laid out, that sounds to fit.
 
10:07 AM
It will take a bit of time to script still
The only thing I am thinking about is the consistency of the tickets will be a bit odd. Many owned by rebolbot, some with real ownership, some with extra header fields. Feels messy
 
It will become inconsistent the moment we start adding new comments, it won't be RebolBot frozen in time anyway.
 
Having them all owned by rebolbot at least gives a clear delineation between curecode tickets and new github ones
 
I guess, but it also makes the GitHub repository look like it has one user.
 
I know for a fact that there are at least two rebol users :-)
2
 
I'm not going to fight too strongly for anything that causes delays. So if you tell me that if I say "no, make them all posted by RebolBot" you'll get the test upload done in the next 24 hours and it's indefinite to have the other option, I'll say "do it however".
 
10:14 AM
I was mentally pencilling in Sat night to work on this. Have to go out now and I am busy at work and out again tomorrow night. Saturday night in with vim was my plan.
But if I can get something working sooner I will let you know!
 
Sounds good. Def. appreciate you taking it on, and want it to make it as easy as possible for you to make sure it gets done.
 
@HostileFork I want to get it done as I really wanted to play with a Ren/C sandbox for rebolbot. That would be much more fun
 
10:32 AM
sandbox for local evals?
so we don't need try.rebol.nl?
 
@GrahamChiu not sure how hard it will be to do, but yes, that was the plan. Idea was to set up something like ren>
 
11:02 AM
>> quit
==14223==
==14223== HEAP SUMMARY:
==14223==     in use at exit: 0 bytes in 0 blocks
==14223==   total heap usage: 12,286 allocs, 12,286 frees, 10,059,954 bytes allocated
==14223==
==14223== All heap blocks were freed -- no leaks are possible
 
@HostileFork That's very interesting.
 
@johnk ^-- and then there's that feature request! :-)
Anyway, it's been a while since you've seen me talking about zero-crash runs of things or running and exiting with no memory leaks.
There were more new elements in the picture, and other stuff to attend to. But there's a clean shutdown of a Ren/C console...inching closer to Coherence II.
It does point out that Rebol is fairly aggressive about preallocating memory pools.
 
11:28 AM
>> quick fix
to keep the bot quiet
when not wanted
@rebolbot do
"Multiline still works using this syntax"
1 + 2
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== 3
 
@johnk xlnt!
It's like the old days, when the bot was doing new tricks regularly-like... @GrahamChiu, get inspired! :-)
 
Still a big backlog of new tricks to add
 
12:29 PM
==14702==
==14702== HEAP SUMMARY:
==14702==     in use at exit: 0 bytes in 0 blocks
==14702==   total heap usage: 390,879 allocs, 390,879 frees, 167,876,883 bytes allocated
==14702==
==14702== All heap blocks were freed -- no leaks are possible
^-- result after running core-tests
Ren/C is now officially almost back where I was a couple months ago. :-)
(With FFI, https, stablestack, general rethinking, and all the other stuff we've been up to.)
And...serial. @kealist - do you have a way to test that to make sure it still works?
 
1:16 PM
@HostileFork I just pulled out the box o' serial devices. Let me see. I never tested the Atronix changes. Not sure if @Respectech did
 
@kealist I'm sure there are all kinds of applications of this stuff. :-/
 
@HostileFork Is there a way to make the makefile dynamic enough to tell the difference between MSYS and mingw?
as in whether the binaries are named make.exe vs mingw32-make.exe
 
@kealist Might run that question by @Morwenn, I'm not a windows-builder-person.
 
I'm mainly asking regarding clean
OK
 
The build system will hopefully have a near-term revolution, there are a couple components in the mix... it's just a matter of picking over them and getting the best of all options on the table.
 
1:32 PM
Not having success opening a serial port, but let me try a few more things
 
1:42 PM
Nope, not working on Windows at least
 
@kealist :-( Do you have a debugging environment set up?
 
I do not really know what debuggers to use. I've tried to use MSVC, but do not really know how to use the debugging functionality in this case
I can revert to the atronix fixes for serial to see if they actually still work and try to isolate when it stopped working
 
@kealist You generally should be able to pick an executable to debug from the running processes list, or to open and launch an external application... I'd be surprised if there's not a menu option for both...
When you do then if you're lucky, the debugging symbols database will be automatically found.
 
ok, let me grab my laptop with MSVC
 
2:02 PM
rebol-test difference betwee atronix build and ren-c:
atronix:
system/version: 3.0.99.4.40
code-checksum: #{B2B177E62928BDDA3985DE2D7347AEB0F9C1D5FE}
test-checksum: #{80D6DF51788344DF967F66B107136BF4F30AB7B0}
Total: 5253
Succeeded: 4793
Test-failures: 146
Crashes: 1
Dialect-failures: 0
Skipped: 313

Ren-C:
system/version: 2.102.0.4.40
code-checksum: #{D037E87CA846D46A19B7A28A651F2AD206A65D6D}
test-checksum: #{80D6DF51788344DF967F66B107136BF4F30AB7B0}
Total: 5253
Succeeded: 4785
Test-failures: 155
new-successes: 0
new-failures: 0
new-crashes: 0
progressions: 6
regressions: 14
removed: 0
unchanged: 5233
total: 5253
 
@ShixinZeng Ren-C has its own tests (in the test directory) and they should be stable at 116 failures.
Some behaviors are changed.
(Vetting the tests and getting to 0 failures standard is a goal, but a goal after getting through the test suite w/o crashing and getting through w/0 leaks... both of which are now done...)
 
I am setup with MSVC now, but I have to put breakpoints in the code for the debugger to actually do something, right?
 
@kealist If you're debugging the program, you should be able to pause it and get a stack. But you generally do put breakpoints, yes.
The entry point is in src/os/host-main.c
 
posted on September 03, 2015 by hostilefork

This is a set of changes which get to a baseline ability to do a "clean shutdown", where every bit of memory that Rebol has allocated is explicitly freed. Doing this is not strictly necessary if the program is about to exit. So release builds are set to skip it and just exit... letting the OS take care of reclaiming the memory. However, it's important to do the bookkeeping in the debug buil

 
2:17 PM
Serial port does open on Windows in the Atronix dev release
 
@kealist When you said it wasn't opening, was it "not opening and giving you an assertion" or just not doing anything?
Aug 11 at 22:18, by johnk
@HostileFork rebolbot is still working well in my test room. There does seem to be some memory leaking. My guess is that this is the same as I was seeing with the atronix dev build. There was no leak with the non-dev atronix build (which is what rebolbit currently runs on)
@johnk ^-- I'm not sure how much of a role this problem or this problem could be playing in that, but there's two more leaks down...
 
It gives an access error as if the port does not exist. (nothing different than I've seen before Ren-c).
** Access error: cannot open: serial://com2/38400 reason: -12
** Where: open
** Near: serial://com2/38400
 
@kealist If you want to catch the error at the moment it happens, put a breakpoint in Do_Error() in c-error.c
 
@HostileFork I'll have to actually get the ren-c code open in MSVC first, hold on
 
@HostileFork I was actually running ren-c/test. I though it was the same as rebol-test
Oops, I wasn't on the master branch of the test, rerunning
It's better:
new-successes: 0
new-failures: 0
new-crashes: 0
progressions: 11
regressions: 3
removed: 0
unchanged: 5239
total: 5253
 
2:35 PM
@ShixinZeng If you run r3 log-diff.r xxxxx.log yyyyy.log it will tell you what those 3 are.
 
No, it doesn't, the above output was from log-diff.r
I am running diff to find them out
-[error? make error! [type: 'script id: 'throw-usage]] "succeeded"
+[error? make error! [type: 'script id: 'throw-usage]] "failed, error was caused in the test code"
 
@ShixinZeng log-diff puts the results in diff.r
 
@HostileFork uh, Nice
 
Just something I haven't bothered to commit yet there, THROW is not done with ERROR! now.
 
Here is from diff.r:
[error? make error! [type: 'script id: 'already-used]] regression, failed
[error? make error! [type: 'script id: 'throw-usage]] regression, failed
[error? try [apply func [a] [a] [1 2]]] progression, succeeded
[error? try [apply/only func [a] [a] [1 2]]] progression, succeeded
[image? to image! make gob! []] regression, failed
 
2:42 PM
A bunch of errors getting GC'd to go along with those first two so ignore that. Don't know about the last one. I don't offhand remember what it was I did to apply with too many arguments...
>> apply func [a] [a] [1 2]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== 1
 
I added a "too long" error if there are too many arguments. So it should be an error, yes.
The last one isn't intentional, so just something going wrong there.
 
@HostileFork you mean image? to image! make gob! []?
I think this is expected, given ren-c doesn't have view implemented
 
'k. Well I don't know which parts are supposed to work and don't offhand for that.
 
to image calls OS_GOB_TO_IMAGE() to render the gob! to an image!
 
2:46 PM
Just looking at the host-ext stuff with the ciphers and COMMAND! and that looks like an extremely awkward way to add about five natives.
@ShixinZeng is there a lot of use of the RXTs and all that stuff in the view code?
 
The whole draw dialect is implemented via COMMAND!
 
@HostileFork before I go ahead can you check and comment my code for objects with spec?
 
@giuliolunati interesting idea. I have been thinking about that for a while
Have you looked at utype!?
 
@giuliolunati It's definitely food for thought :-) ...but as you know it's ahead of the priority curve right now. Glad you're doing it and hope to see you develop the idea. For starters without broader critique I would say that you would be better off not using logic and instead using NONE! and [] for your distinctions vs. supporting true/false.
 
One feature I really want to add is GC notification, so that script can provide cleanup hooks.
 
2:55 PM
I'd like to see UTYPE! die and that whatever is necessary be added via object!
 
@HostileFork Great! I felt the same way, utype! and object! overlap too much
 
@ShixinZeng, yes but switched to objects
 
As part of the investigation, I was hoping the whole thing could get an understanding of the options on module, and perhaps unify that too. I have had a hard time understanding what it is about MODULE! the data type that makes features it has different from OBJECT!.
 
@kealist I can't help regarding that question. I never used MSYS.
 
My idea of has as being the way to create an object without a spec still seems reasonable to me. foo: does [1 + 2], cat: has [claws: true attitude: yes] ... function [...] [...] and object [...] [...] as the "full spec" forms
 
3:02 PM
My doubt is about lines 1214-1224 of s-mold.c
 
@giuliolunati The reason the functions ending in _Throws end in _Throws is because they return a boolean you are supposed to check and handle. So it reads as if (Apply_Block_Throws(...)) { handle the thing that happens when the apply throws... }
Handling a thrown value is special, and getting improved. The general idea is that if you are a throw-handling thing (such as how a loop would handle a thrown 'break' or 'continue') then you write special code for it. If not, you usually just pass it up to whoever called you. If you don't have anything to pass it to, you need to Trap_Thrown().
But a throw can happen whenever the code you are calling does something throw-like that isn't caught by anything else before it reaches you. And the value you get is not an ordinary user value, it has the THROWN flag set. It will generate asserts if you try and use it most places.
 
3:18 PM
Ok, thx. To backup/restore mold->series->data is fine?
 
I don't know I'll ever be able to open a non-msvc project in msvc in a successful way, so I went to the old method. Switching to wchar_t seems to have goofed up something about the way the path is been handled
Working on it
 
@kealist Ah yes, changes and type-enforcements there. Hopefully the comments on the functions will provide some guidance on what's going on.
 
@HostileFork This may be the issue for Windows. Would this copy WCHAR_T properly?
 
@giuliolunati Hm, so you're running up against the BUF_MOLD shared buffer problem I guess. I guess it didn't expect there to be any recursive molds.
@kealist It's supposed to. You can read the notes on what's going on there...
 
3:40 PM
@giuliolunati I don't know what the best answer to dealing with that is. The MOLD structure is designed to let you set up and call with any series destination from the C code, but the BUF_MOLD is what is used by all user code...and you're doing something that was assumed to not happen before.
 
@HostileFork From my investigation, req->special.serial.path is not wchar_t, so when it's concatenating the path onto "\\\\.\\" it doesn't work. I'll look through that.
 
@kealist Well it looks like it's just using a Rebol string value's data. A string will only be REBUNI (equivalent to wchar_t but only on Windows) if it contains non-ASCII codepoints of 128 or higher. So you need a conversion there.
@kealist It should probably be some sort of call to Value_To_OS_Path first, then copy the data from that, then Free_Series on the series Value_To_OS_Path returned...I guess.
 
4:01 PM
@HostileFork Would it be better to handle this in windows/dev-serial.c or within p-serial.c?
 
4:28 PM
0
Q: Rebol GUI on Android Displays Too Small

Jeff ManerSo I've discovered Rebol, and am thrilled that it runs on Android. When I create a GUI, though, the GUI first pops up with the top left corner in the center of the screen, and I cannot move or resize the window. If I rotate my phone to a horizontal display, the window resizes itself to the screen...

 
4:39 PM
I at least figured out where it went wrong.
@HostileFork Where is Value_To_OS_Path defined?
 
5:19 PM
May I please trouble anyone who has built on Windows to check the following?
>> to binary! -0.0
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== #{8000000000000000}
 
My build of almost-untouched rebol/rebol master regresses on this.
 
@MarkI same result
 
@kealist Thanks. Is that a gcc build? Can you try a tcc build?
 
tcc: >> to binary! -0.0
== #{0000000000000000}
 
5:25 PM
@kealist Awesome, thanks again. So it's not just me, tcc seems to not like IEEE decimals. At least on Windows.
 
5:37 PM
There are 10 regressions with tcc builds on Windows, 2 with -0.0 and 8 with self-referential blocks a: copy [] insert/only a a.
@earl --^
 
 
2 hours later…
7:13 PM
Also for #earl, but for anybody really, do you hate the idea of replacing current #FF issue-hexes with #xFF forms?
It'd be an intermediary step until issues become strings again, but even if they're strings I don't think it's a bad idea.
Sorry @earl, I mistyped your buzzer --^.
 
7:29 PM
Now, here's a good question for you optimizing compiler types:
Have you ever heard of an optimizer that inlines strchr(3) calls if the first parameter is a string constant?
FWIW, I know tcc doesn't :(, and it is actually a significant gain to do so ...
 
@HostileFork maybe object with arity 2 isn't a good idea in current implementation: one can simply write
fraction: object [spec: true ....]
or
fraction: object [spec: object[mold: 'mymold ...] ... ]
 
7:49 PM
@giuliolunati Tsk tsk! You're ruling out objects with fields named 'spec' in them ...
You could re-use the 'self word though; it is currently protected, but that can be "adjusted".
 
8:12 PM
@MarkI uhmm ... works fine for me.
Maybe better use 'custom instead?
 
>> print "@rebolbot test"
@rebolbot test
>>
>> another test
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-no-value.html
    *** ERROR
** Script error: another has no value
** Where:
** Near: try load/all join %/users/try-REBOL/data/ system/script/args...
 
>> another test
>>
ahh.. picks up the trailing >> and then doesn't evaluate
 
@RebolBot
probe object [spec: object [mold: 'mymold]]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== RESULT is an object of value:
   spec            object!   [mold]
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
make object! [
    spec: make object! [
        mold: 'mymold
    ]
]
== RESULT is an object of value:
   spec            object!   [mold]
 
8:16 PM
0
A: Rebol GUI on Android Displays Too Small

Graham ChiuCheck out the demo. Type demo at the bottom field and run it to see how to adjust the faces to suit the screen size. But as giuliolunati says, this build is over 2 years old and not publicly maintained. On my HP 21" Android slate the faces come up the correct size, but it runs very sluggishly....

 
8:28 PM
@giuliolunati 'Custom would have the same problem. Anything but 'self would have the same problem. The problem is not that it doesn't work, it's that it doesn't work if the object you want to spec has a field named 'spec or 'custom or 'whatever-word-you-have-chosen-to-steal-for-the-spec-identifier inside it. It's a namespace collision problem.
Now, it is true that currently objects cannot have a field named 'self in them, but I think we've agreed to live with that. Maybe we will agree to live with both 'self and 'spec being ruled out as valid object field names, I don't know.
 
@JeffManer As mentioned, the R3 droid apk is a dead end
 
@MarkI ok, I understand. Thx.
 
Np.
Welcome @DaveAndersen! What brings you to R&R (Rebol and Red)?
Our 'bot normally greets newcomers, but ... are you a newcomer?
 
@GrahamChiu Thank you so much! That's disappointing to read. I saw that Red might soon provide a GUI for Android. I'll have to watch for that. I was hoping for something mature and stable now. Lol! Patience...
 
8:45 PM
@MarkI, I've been lurking around the Red project and Gitter chat for a while since I found out about it. I've been in here a few times. Slowly trying to learn new things about Rebol and Red
It's interesting to see what kinds of discussions people are having
 
8:55 PM
@HostileFork Just as a reminder, rebol.info subdomains are available to anyone that wants to use them. I believe you only need have an account with freedns.afraid.org to get going...
 
 
1 hour later…
9:59 PM
@MarkI Rebolbot stores IDs of everyone who visits. So, if they don't get greeted, they've been here before while rebolbot was active :)
 
10:41 PM
@GrahamChiu can I run Rebolbot in my own server?
 
@giuliolunati sure
 
@kealist Generally speaking, the more code that is outside of the core the better. Everything that messes with the guts of a REBCHR is best if it's out, if it can be.
 
@giuliolunati but you should run it in a different room from this one!
 
@GrahamChiu and how can I start?
 
@giuliolunati what exactly do you want to do?
it has to be an account that uses a password and not OAUTH2
 
10:55 PM
@MarkI Greetings were disabled at some point as being annoying, at a time when whether bots should speak if not spoken to was in question.
 
@GrahamChiu run in my http server
 
you could create a private room, and setup a new account to use with the bot
@HostileFork Oh? I didn't realise that greetings were disabled
@giuliolunati it should run on any server you can run daemons on
 
@GrahamChiu ok, but can I run my own build of r3?
 
@giuliolunati I would just test it locally with whatever build you want to use
the user, password, room configurations are there to be changed
I'm not sure where the user password details are stored. @johnk will know
 
Thank you so much! And @GrahamChiu, what do you think about GUI on android?
 
11:10 PM
@GrahamChiu @giuliolunati @iceflow19 and everyone else... no one really chimed in about what BREAK and CONTINUE should do in the condition of a loop.
>> while [true] [while [break] [print "Inner"] print "Outer" break]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
Outer
 
red> while [true] [while [break] [print "Inner"] print "Outer" break]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
 
If WHILE catches BREAK and CONTINUE from its condition, one issue is the semantics of a continue... does it mean "continue and run the condition again" or "continue through to the body". The current Rebol semantics are "continue through to the body".
On the pro side of it paying attention to the condition: the condition is looped too, so there is a loop to be meaningfully spoken about breaking or continuing. On the pro side of it not paying attention to the condition: it gives code a way to speak to the enclosing context for a BREAK or a CONTINUE while the loop is happening.
 
@giuliolunati I'm talking to @HostileFork to see if he can implement a GUI :)
 
11:23 PM
@GrahamChiu noted - @giuliolunati I'll update the sample config file this weekend. Quick warning that if you get a missing config file warning starting it is likely to be the twitter module complaining, not the bot itself. (there are lots of things to clean up for the bot)
 
Maybe we should remove the twitter module as default?
 
@GrahamChiu +1 @johnk thx
'Nite all!
 
11:53 PM
I notice a certain lack of passion regarding the decision about breaks and continues in the condition of while loops.
 

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