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12:08 AM
anyone up for testing the chat client ?
or better still, for helping with development
 
12:31 AM
@GrahamChiu I would be willing to run it. Not today, maybe tomorrow.
 
1:02 AM
0
Q: Are multi-line comments a critical facility in a modern language?

HostileForkI'm trying to convince the designers of a language that multi-line comments with an arbitrary start and end are important, and should be included. Currently there is only a "comment-to-end-of-line" primitive. Their line of argumentation reminds me of what some say about why you should use space...

 
@HostileFork that will give me time to remove some redundant code!
 
Saw the LEGO movie today. Cute, although the trailer gave away too much.
 
Movies? all my spare time is spent on debugging my code
 
Mine too, but birthday, etc.
 
1:27 AM
I hope the moderation on graphic design StackExchange and culture really set a standard and precedent that people like this Ivan guy continue to be told their "help" isn't welcome...
-4
A: Can I redesign a logo I created in Photoshop in illustrator?

IvanYes you can. This logo is easy to make in a vector format and actually it is already a vector if you understand what you are doing.

"offtopic: I don't recommend using this as a logo. It's not what a designer would consider a logo. I know you think it's cool that you can make your husband's logo but you are wrong. This logo is wrong on so many levels. Pay an experienced designer to build a brand for you." from original version
No specific criticism, just "you suck, get another hobby/job". Yeah, that's what Q&A sites are for!
Not.
Having a moderation system in place that won't tolerate that will be a welcome alternative to existing Internet graphic design forums...where people like this guy constantly troll and berate while demonstrating no particular talent or credentials of their own. Those self-same puffed-up people will generally cry bloody murder if you pull out a drawing program and correct their work and post the correction because "you shouldn't mess with other people's work".
@rgchris @pekr @johnk and others who like to tinker with graphic design, take note that it exists... has potential to not suck. As long as people don't do like this Ivan character!
 
1:54 AM
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 8260 so chat away!
 
Hello @Rotem. Welcome. As you can see, we have a bot (well, two) for little demos and other things.
 
I don't think I've chatted since I've had mIRC installed
I've heard maybe two words about Red. What is Rebol?
 
>> print [{"It's interesting to use curly braces," said} (reverse {kroFelitsoH@}) {"because you can {nest} and you find you do a lot less escaping..."}]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
"It's interesting to use curly braces," said @HostileFork "because you can {nest} and you find you do a lot less escaping..."
 
@Rotem Rebol is a language started by one of the main guys who designed the AmigaOS. Which depending on your age you may either know of or not.
 
1:57 AM
Yeah probably too young for that.
 
And Red is a compiled/JIT-compiled/interpreted (depending on which part of the program) variant of the all-interpreted Rebol, with no standard toolchain dependence.
red> print "I'm here too."
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
I'm here too.
 
Know any Lisp, by chance?
 
No, sorry, I've had very little experience outside the MS stack, and a bit of Python.
 
> "Rebol's a more modern language, but with some very similar ideas to LISP, in that it's all built upon a representation of data which is then executable as programs. But it's a much richer thing syntactically.
> Rebol is a brilliant language, and it's a shame it's not more popular, because it deserves to be."
—Douglas Crockford (of JSON/JSlint), 2009
@RebolBot
parse monotoneminimal.com [
    thru <title> copy page-title to </title>
]
print page-title
 
1:59 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-no-value.html
    *** ERROR
** Script error: page-title has no value
** Where:
** Near: try load/all join %/users/try-REBOL/data/ system/script/args...
 
Hm, no page title?
 
should have
 
Hmmm... weird.
Oh oops
I didn't convert it from binary UTF-8 bytes to string
 
It's wordpress, probably a parsing issue
 
@RebolBot
parse to-string monotoneminimal.com [
    thru <title> copy page-title to </title>
]
print page-title
 
2:00 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-no-value.html
    *** ERROR
** Script error: page-title has no value
** Where:
** Near: try load/all join %/users/try-REBOL/data/ system/script/args...
 
And now not remembering to READ the URL
(It's my birthday, been drinking. Not because it's my birthday, I drink usually. Just maybe you'll cut me some slack for forgetting things because of it. :-P)
 
That's fine, it's 5 AM
 
@RebolBot
parse to-string read monotoneminimal.com [
    thru <title> copy page-title to </title>
]
print page-title
 
Happy Birthday
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl


Monotone Minimal | A CG Technical Development Site
 
2:01 AM
there we go
 
Rebol has a literal binary type
So if I want the first 100 bytes of your page, I could say:
>> copy/part read monotoneminimal.com 100
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== #{
3C21444F43545950452068746D6C3E0A3C212D2D5B696620494520365D3E0A3C
68746D6C2069643D2269653622206469723D226C747222206C616E673D22656E
2D5553223E0A3C215B656E6469665D2D2D3E0A3C212D2D5B696620494520375D
3E0A3C68
}
 
So the TO-STRING does a UTF-8 interpretation of the bytes to get codepoints
 
So that's 0x3C, 0x21 etc?
That is handy
 
Right. There are other literal notations for base 2 and such...
>> 2#{11111111}
 
2:03 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== #{FF}
 
is it dynamically typed?
 
Yup, types belong to values.
But it's really pretty wild stuff. Because a word itself is a type
 
I have mixed feelings towards such languages
It's a matter of taste I guess
 
Me too (C++11 guy). But Rebol/Red are the most engaging, literate, and fun of the class.
 
I'll be sure to look into it
I should find time to try and grasp the non-OO paradigms.
I could never find the right way to see how the make sense over OO.
 
2:06 AM
@RebolBot
code: [print 1 + 2]
print [{The length of code is} length? code]
foreach symbol code [
    print [{The type of symbol} mold symbol {is} mold type? symbol]
]
print {Running the code!...}
do code
append code [+ 3]
print [{The new length of code is} length? code]
print {Executing updated code...}
do code
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
The length of code is 4
The type of symbol print is word!
The type of symbol 1 is integer!
The type of symbol + is word!
The type of symbol 2 is integer!
Running the code!...
3
The new length of code is 6
Executing updated code...
6
 
@Rotem Rebol stands for "Relative-Expression Based Object Language". It has objects, functions, closures...
It has a zero-install, multi-platform, half-a-megabyte single binary on many platforms
The things it can do, and how literately it can do them, can be quite astounding.
 
So if I follow your example you're referencing the code symbols at run-time?
 
Yes, this is a Lisp-like aspect. Code is data and data is code. The property is formally called Homoiconicity
 
interesting
 
2:09 AM
But Rebol has way more types than Lisp, and can do some crazy slick stuff out of the box.
>> type? <div>
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== tag!
 
>> type? 12-Dec-2012
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== date!
 
>> 12-Dec-2012 + 60
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== 10-Feb-2013
 
2:10 AM
>> 12-Dec-2012 12:11:10 + 10
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== 12:11:20
 
gotcha
 
Nope
You had a DATE! followed by a TIME! and added 10 to the time.
 
date and time are separate entities
 
Symbols are separated by spaces
 
2:11 AM
yes I understand
 
Well they can be
>> now
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== 22-Apr-2014/4:11:28+2:00
 
ah
 
You used a space.
>> now/date
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== 22-Apr-2014
 
2:11 AM
>> now/time
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== 4:11:55
 
>> now/zone
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== 2:00
 
so / is the member accessor?
 
And we'll assume that's what time it is in the Netherlands
Not exactly
>> type? quote a/b/c
 
2:12 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== path!
 
>> type? quote (a b c)
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== paren!
 
>> type? quote [a b c]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
== block!
 
The quote on the last one is not needed, because in the default evaluator, blocks are not evaluated unless you ask for it...other block types have meaning in evaluation
But you are free to give these your own meanings in unevaluated contexts, they become data!
 
2:13 AM
ok, so the datetime object parses '/' in a type specific way?
 
Yes, in that case it does. The parser is somewhat rich, and that is caused by the fact that things are usually separated by spaces.
This means that you can't say things like 20/10 and get 2. You have to say 20 / 10
 
so each type you implement is responsible for parsing its own code?
 
While you give up some brevity for this, I think the spacing is nicer, but it also opens the door to many fun types.
Well, the parser is kind of a monolithic thing. You can think of Rebol at its core as actually being a data format called Ren (for "Readable Notation")
Perhaps an XML or JSON competitor, if you'd like to model it that way. Although JSON was created by Douglas Crockford to try and recreate some of what he liked about Rebol into JavaScript. And... it's not as good. But, it does stand up against XML.
Not as well as Rebol does.
 
posted on April 21, 2014 by qtxie

TESTS: Add tests for SHIFT OP!

 
There are debates about how one might extend it beyond its current definition, more types, etc. But it has pretty good coverage at the moment.
And becomes a bunch of tinkertoys for designing your own embedded languages, called "dialects". Parse is a dialect.
The first parameter to parse is a series (string, block, binary, path, parens...whatever). Then the second is a block of rules.
@RebolBot
parse "And this is where [Rebol] gets very, very cool..." [
     thru "["
     copy bracketed to "]"
]
print bracketed
 
2:19 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
Rebol
 
PARSE gets that second parameter by value. The fact that COPY is an operation in the core language doesn't need to bother it, because it doesn't execute it. In a sense, Rebol has no keywords.
 
I'll try to grasp these concepts when I'm at least twice as awake
 
@RebolBot
parse "You will find that [Rebol] and [Red] are [COOL!], yeah..." [
    some [
        thru "["
        copy bracketed to "]"
        (print bracketed)
    ]
]
print "Take that, REGEX!"
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
Rebol
Red
COOL!
Take that, REGEX!
 
Or binary...
@RebolBot
parse #{FFFFFFDECAFBAD00000000} [
    3 #{FF}
    copy data to #{00}
]
print data
print reverse data
 
2:22 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
#{DECAFBAD}
#{ADFBCADE}
 
@Rotem Well if you can pull yourself away from IRC a bit we are on the recruiting angle. Mostly for Red development, but Rebol is more mature so we still suggest it for learning and certain applications.
And I made both the logos so I hate to exert brand preference. :-)
 
Honestly I feel the core concepts are unlike anything I've ever worked with, so I might ease in to it at some point
 
Well it's a very different angle from what other people are doing
 
The logos are nice though
 
@Rotem Thanks, we took the #1 click spot in the open source ads for StackOverflow... so I think the Red tower has been a success so far
 
2:26 AM
Yeah that one has click written all over it
Candyish
 
I want to do a Rebol ad for the next run
It's a little harder, we are still working in a transitional management period... Rebol was closed source and proprietary for 13 years
Open sourced December 2012, and we are still trying to get the various people who use it and companies to not go off on their own forks and keep their modifications closed (Apache lets them do so...) but rather rally around getting everything central on the rebol/rebol repository.
Has turned out to be harder than it sounds but I think we may be nearing a point where things align. In the meantime, Red churns along at a good clip. (Pull Request while we were talking, in fact)
But Red is going all-in for alien tech. No C compiler or toolchain dependency. Self-hosted, 1 megabyte target, cross-compiler like no one's seen quite yet. Ambitious.
 
sounds very ambitious, yes
good luck with that, sincerely
 
I think Rebol has value for people who want to use a Rebol-like language but simply have to stick to a conventional toolchain. Having it be an interpreter, written in C, that anyone can read and understand who knows C is an asset of its own.
If you crack open Red, it will just look like more Red code
 
so how was the first compilation done?
oh
nm
I should get some sleep :)
 
@Rotem Well it's not bootstrapped yet. Red's design is that it has a C-like language with some hardware-specific low-level extensions called Red/System. It uses the Ren data format.
Although the language is in the format, it cannot meta-code in the format. So Red/System is not homoiconic.
It is merely represented in a format that Red and Rebol can meta-program
For the moment Red-the-compiler and Red/System-the-compiler are written in Rebol, while Red's runtime library is written in Red/System.
At some point, this will be switched to where Red-the-compiler and Red/System-the-compiler are implemented in terms of a blessed/vetted/tested Red.
I advise being very prudent about ensuring the stability before doing it.
And given that Rebol3 is now open source, it eases the pressure or rationale for needing to rush
As FOSS distros would be willing to accept a non-bootstrapped Red.
@Rotem Well do bookmark us, I think especially if you haven't ventured too far outside the MS stack and well-known languages, knowing some other things is a good mind expander. Lots out there... Haskell, Clojure, whatever... but I put Rebol/Red in the "really interesting" category.
 
2:40 AM
Will do, thanks for the presentation
good night
 
Sure. Nite!
 
3:18 AM
@HostileFork Lol, you sure did inundate Rotem with a crap load concepts...
 
@JacobGood1 Who wants to drink...from the FIREHOSE!!?!?
 
@HostileFork I usually cruise and read all the stuff said in here, looking for any lil tidbits of updates about Red
 
Well Doc's got lots of relocation bizness and on chat break. I think that Red news will be a little sporadic, but it looks like qtxie is cruising along with stuff
I'm about to return to my giant projectional framework thing in C++11 that got sort of derailed.
I did some formalization and posted an aspect of it for review
 
happy birthday btw
 
Tx
7
Q: Proxy/Facade Implementation Concept in C++11, impedance matching DB with classes

HostileForkIn an old project I tinker with from time to time, I have a DOM-like structure in an MMF database. I'd like the nodes to act like they have some C++ typing based on the content, and accessor methods that go along with that. Yet in actuality, the data is independent of the type system in C++. T...

No one ever replied to that. I sort of wanted to get that pinned down before I released the code
I guess I could offer to pay someone. I dunno how I'd pick that person though.
Bountied it, no response, showed it to people, no one had any ideas. I'm sort of off the usual map there.
 
3:28 AM
@HostileFork welp, don't pick me I have no idea what the heck you are asking lol...
At a cursory glance anyway(which if i knew at a cursory glance I guess you would want to pick me)
 
Well it wasn't a bad birthday overall
They opened a new sushi restaurant on the island. Not very noteworthy from the exterior, but it was very good
LEGO movie was good, trailer gave away too much, mad that the world-building LEGO software they built to do it is owned by some company somewhere and not in the hands of kids. I guess at least they have MineCraft.
 
@HostileFork i love sushi and that movie was great
 
A virtual LEGO program was one of my earliest software ideas
I had seen Pinball Construction Set
 
3:43 AM
I swear, you must have a database of pics on your pc... do you have about 10 terabyte hard drives?
 
I have Google Images :-)
 
With a lot of bookmarks =P
 
But I do have about 6 terabytes I guess, give or take locally
Anyway, my little "one LEGO set each birthday, one each Christmas" kid self looked at the parts and thought: "you can just click and copy. why couldn't you have LEGOs in the computer?"
 
you play Minecraft secretly don't you?
 
So I would look to see how many copies of things you could save and how big it got before the disk filled up, setting some boundaries on what was possible
I have not played MineCraft, but I absolutely loved SpaceChem
The guy who made that created the precursor to MineCraft, called InfiniMiner
But it got hacked or something and he just got frustrated with it
And has mixed feelings about Minecraft's success...
 
3:47 AM
Minecraft ensures that Java/JVM will be a safe bet for a long time to come
 
I can see the educational value of Minecraft, but I don't know if it quite hits the educational ball out of the park the way SpaceChem does
 
It must be pumping out generations of Java programmers
 
Hum, I drew a SpaceChem reactor model, arrrgh, I have so much crap around here
 
Yes, you do
You are so quick on the draw as well. Pretty much any topic you have some sort of pic or vid ready to shoot from the hip.
 
The game is a little hard to understand what you're looking at, I feel if they had a cutaway of the reactors like that it would help explain what's going on
I meant to send that to them
There's always some roadblock sitting in my way of finishing stuff. :-/
@JacobGood1 Did you see this?
 
3:55 AM
@HostileFork No ill check it out later though
 
Well, still trying to go through everything, get it all off the hard drives.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:08 AM
1
Q: How to Share Our Own Static Status in Facebook using Android

Pooja RoyI am developing an application. In that I am trying to share information of my application as a Status of Facebook and Twitter when button is clicked. When I click on twitter button the status as I want to share is twitted automatically but In facebook I cant share info as I want in show blank ...

 
7:06 AM
room topic changed to [Rebol and Red]: Don't rejoin us. Combine with us. rebolsource.net/go/chat-faq [jit] [json] [lisp] [rebol] [red]
 
7:36 AM
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 7254 so chat away!
 
Greetings @ThomasEding ... a fan of haskell, C++, and code-golf. Maybe I'm a good person to pitch you on Rebol and Red, if you haven't been already :-)
@RebolBot introduce me
 
@HostileFork how come you don't have a golf code tag?
Or is that part of your alter ego?
 
@GrahamChiu Partially it's that, but also it's because before there was a separate code-golf and puzzles site, they were on StackOverflow proper. I only caught a few of those. Nowadays there aren't new code golf questions on SO.
 
well, I guess we don't want gardening tags appear here either
What's your father's rep on the immunology site?
 
7:46 AM
@GrahamChiu Tried to get him to start an account on the card and board games site, they have a bridge tag
 
128 immunology questions
 
@HostileFork A lot!
This is a beta site
I wanted to start a Q&A site too for something medical but I couldn't get shapado installed due to their use of RoR
 
$220? Jeez. Maybe he should convert that book to softcover.
 
@HostileFork that would also involve RoR install
Hope @rgchris comes back soon .. I'd like to update the r3-gui docs as I find things out, but then I need to convert them to epub which is the only way I read things
too many blocking things going on ...
 
7:56 AM
Need more people in society working on software and fewer watching Dancing With the Stars or using Facebook, or stabbing and blowing each other up over differences in imaginary friends.
 
But people these days are more concerned about themselves rather than the common good
 
A few aren't
The advice is you're supposed to focus on those few and try and help the rest
The real enemy, it is argued, is the system which got people thinking this way in the first place and which reinforces it
 
8:13 AM
I suspect it's cultural. Western civs favor individualism, whereas eastern civs focus on families.
There's less of the culture of the self, but more cultivation of the self.
And we more forks of Rebol than developers
 
room topic changed to [Rebol and Red]: Past is prologue. rebolsource.net/go/chat-faq [astral-plane] [code-golf] [jit] [json] [lisp] [rebol] [red]
Some wacky tags might be better. Let's see
 
@HostileFork for what? Get more Android questions?
 
Oh, I dunno. Just try different things.
 
I need to get back to work on my chat client ... or watch NCIS ... hard decision
 
Shouldn't be mutually exclusive.
I guess I could try it now
Where do I get it?
 
8:26 AM
@rebolbot save chat "SO Chat client in R3-GUI" github.com/gchiu/RSOChat
 
@GrahamChiu added key: chat
 
it's very rudimentary at present
 
I can get the cookie from request header, but what's the fkey?
 
at the bottom of this page .. hidden input field
 
loading images off web
** Access error: protocol error: "Server error: HTTP/1.1 400 Bad Request"
Using Atronix 32-bit on linux
config file looks okay
 
8:37 AM
can you use saphir/view instead
or, Linux ...
not tested on linux so that will be interesting
Are you able to trace the http request?
 
I sent you my cookie/fkey in gchat, you can try it as long as you don't say anything I wouldn't say
 
8:54 AM
My solar lamp is still pretty bright here, pre-dawn. It seems to work pretty well.
Been on all night and it isn't significantly dimmer than it was when it first got dark
It lights the walkway sort of faintly, like moonlight
It's a pretty good balance for this case, as if it were too bright it might be annoying. But I can see how people on the reviews think it's not bright enough compared to an electric light. It's not enough light to really work by, just enough to see the path
 
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 186 so chat away!
 
@amine From Paris, the home of Red! :-)
Former home, that is now moving operations to China...
 
9:09 AM
Thanks for the welcome :)
Actually I just discovered Red and I'll be happy to contribute some day to this amazing project :)
2
 
@amine Where did you hear of it?
red> print {"I'd like to know!", said {RedBot}, "I've got a vested interest." :-)}
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
"I'd like to know!", said {RedBot}, "I've got a vested interest."  :-)
 
from the ad in StackOverflow
 
@amine Is that running still? I thought the ads had broken.
Ah, I see they turned back on
It looks like we've only had 55 clicks though! :-) We were comfortably #1 and over 10,000 before that meta.stackexchange migration!
I hope they put our numbers back. I was proud of that. :-)
@amine We are very happy to discuss and teach Rebol/Red here, if you have the interest. It is truly a different mindset, about battling complexity and working on the expressive power of language. Not the only approach one can take to think about "future software methods" but definitely gives voice to some factors that most people have lost an awareness about.
These days many people will install TOASTER.EXE without much consciousness or awareness of it installing OVEN.DLL; dependencies are not cautiously controlled, end users have little education about it and now it's getting to the point where the developers themselves work in abstracted environments so they don't know either.
 
Seems interesting :)
Maybe some other time because I am at work now and don't really have much time..
 
9:19 AM
sudo apt-get small-thing winds up needing to install big-thing-1 thru big-thing-N and gigabytes go by without people blinking just because their hard drives are big enough.
@amine You can "favorite" a room and return when you have the time, we will see you then...
 
done
see you!
 
@HostileFork updated to catch facebook images .. untested because the guy has left now!
 
loading images off web
loading messages at 22-Apr-2014/5:32:09-4:00
len: 0
0
Tried to send, no effect.
 
9:34 AM
I can post using my credentials
@HostileFork click on Fetch Msgs
 
@GrahamChiu Got 'em
 
Going to add a check for not logged in message
 
** Syntax error: invalid "email" -- "@amine"
** Where: to case load if foreach actor all foreach do-actor unless do-face if actor all foreach do-actor if do-event do-event if do-event either -apply- wake-up loop -apply- wait forever actor all foreach do-actor unless do-face if actor all foreach do-actor if do-event do-event if do-event either -apply- wake-up loop -apply- wait forever try do-events if view do either either either -apply-
** Near: (line 1) <event_type> 1 <time_stamp> 1398157817 <content> @amine Where did you hear of it? <user_id> 211160 <user_name> HostileFork <room_id> 291 <
 
Odd ... I didn't get that error and the same message is showing.
 
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