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12:01 AM
so swap a > for a <
@rebolbot search disposable
 
@GrahamChiu sorry, asasfasdfasf not found so far
On: 14-Jun-2013/23:58:32.999999936 by: RebolBot in: 10002859
On: 14-Jun-2013/23:46:08.000000075 by: Graham Chiu in: 10002748
 
@rebolbot
d: now
probe d/4/3
d/4/3: 0
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-invalid-path.html
>> d: now probe d/4/3 d/4/3: 0
24
*** ERROR
** Script error: cannot access 4 in path d/4/3:
** Where:
** Near: try load/all join %/users/try-REBOL/data/ system/script/args...
 
that's a shame
 
@RebolBot
d: now
d/second: 0
print d
 
12:15 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> d: now d/second: 0 print d
15-Jun-2013/2:15+2:00
 
ok :)
 
12:34 AM
@rebolbot search search
 
On: 37 minutes ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10002850
On: 51 minutes ago by: earl in: 10002737
On: 38 minutes ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10002834
On: 35 minutes ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10002871
On: 51 minutes ago by: johnk in: 10002729
On: 35 minutes ago by: RebolBot in: 10002863
 
hmm. must be wrong
@rebolbot source from-now
 
from-now: make function! [[d [date!]][
    case [
        d + 7 < now [d]
        d + 1 < now [join now - d " days ago"]
        d + 1:00 < now [join to integer! divide difference now d 1:00 " hours ago"]
        d + 0:01 < now [join to integer! divide difference now d 0:01 " minutes ago"]
        true [join to integer! divide now/time - d/time 0:00:01 " seconds ago"]
    ]
]]
 
@RebolBot fetch 10002729
 
@GrahamChiu {"event_type":1,"time_stamp":1371253385,"content":"Interesting discussion. I find the current search to be good enough. Flagging useful messages with * could be expanded on. Tagging starred messages with topics would be nice.","user_id":1864998,"user_name":"johnk","room_id":291,"message_id":10002729‌​}
 
12:46 AM
@GrahamChiu Had a chance to try my interactive call?
 
@Brett not yet .. not quite sure what it is used for. Is it like the helper tasks in Cheyenne?
 
@RebolBot fetch 9952508
 
@rgchris Sorry mate, message 9952508 is not in my store
 
Ah, too old...
 
I think it was suggested that message storing should be done by another app so I have not yet tried to retrieve older messages
so this is just a temporay thing for rebolbot to store messages it receives from an hour ago or whenever it was
 
@Brett would you provide a use case
Would @shadwolf get his Ping command?
 
@GrahamChiu Rebol 2's call has /input and /output. Rebol 3 does not. This provides that functionality and a little more, because the script can interactively feed the called program with input and receive output within a loop.
 
@Brett Ok, so in a R3GUI script we could call Ping and get the output returned and displayed in a window
 
@GrahamChiu Yes, you could.
 
so it would be like a call no-wait since it's async
 
1:09 AM
@GrahamChiu Yes. And as I say, send some data, receive a response, send more data, receive a response, etc.
Or just:
do https://raw.github.com/codebybrett/r3-scripts/master/interactive-cmd-server.r3.r
server: make-cmd-server {ping rebol.net}
server/startup
wait 4
x: server/receive
server/shutdown
 
How many slave helper processes can you run?
 
@GrahamChiu This initial version, is meant for a single user. It does not currently check for multiple invocations at the same time. Needs a bit more hand shaking than at the moment I imagine to avoid collisions for multiple invocations.
 
>> wait 4
== none

>> x: server/receive
== {
Pinging rebol.net [68.179.77.45] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 68.179.77.45: bytes=32 time=217ms TTL=41
Reply from 68.179.77.45: bytes=32 time=228ms TTL=41
Reply from 68.179.77.45: bytes=32 time=215ms TTL=41
Reply from 68.179.77.45: bytes=32 time=217ms TTL=41

Ping statistics for 68.179.77.45:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 215ms, Maximum = 228ms, Average = 219ms
Having a lot of clients working for you would be great
@rebolbot search case
 
@GrahamChiu sorry, case not found so far
 
damm
@RebolBot fetch 10003375
 
1:20 AM
@GrahamChiu Sorry mate, message 10003375 is not in my store
 
1:45 AM
@RebolBot fetch 10003375
 
@GrahamChiu Sorry mate, message 10003375 is not in my store
 
@rebolbot fetch 10003519
 
@GrahamChiu {"event_type":1,"time_stamp":1371259184,"content":"@GrahamChiu sorry, case not found so far","user_id":2109883,"user_name":"RebolBot","room_id":291,"message_id":1000351‌​9,"parent_id":10003516,"show_parent":true}
 
@rebolbot fetch 10003453
 
@GrahamChiu Sorry mate, message 10003453 is not in my store
 
1:49 AM
@rebolbot fetch 10003693
 
@GrahamChiu {"event_type":1,"time_stamp":1371260792,"content":"@GrahamChiu Sorry mate, message 10003453 is not in my store","user_id":2109883,"user_name":"RebolBot","room_id":291,"message_id":10003‌​693,"parent_id":10003692,"show_parent":true}
 
@RebolBot present
 
@GrahamChiu GrahamChiu rgchris earl HostileFork onetom pekr Adrian Respectech pierre
 
@rebolbot search fetch
 
On: 7 minutes ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10003692
On: 8 minutes ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10003688
On: 4 minutes ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10003702
On: 2 hours ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10002695
On: 2 hours ago by: earl in: 10002728
On: 33 minutes ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10003531
On: 8 minutes ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10003684
 
2:52 AM
In all practicality, the binary! requirement to use transcode/next as a replacement for load/next is a pain in the arse.
You end up playing a game of to string! to binary! to string! to binary! to take advantage of the 'benefits' of each type.
 
@rgchris I agree with that!
 
This is still not equivalent:
load-next: func [pos [string!]][pos: transcode/next to binary! pos pos/2: to string! pos/2 pos]
 
it's designed to protect us from our own malicious scripts
 
As the string returned in the second position is not the same string.
@GrahamChiu Yet we can still 'load strings :)
@RebolBot do/2 head second load/next next "1[2]3"
 
3:07 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> head second load/next next "1[2]3"
== "1[2]3"
 
@RebolBot do head second probe transcode/next next probe to binary! "1[2]3"
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> head second transcode/next next probe to binary! "1[2]3"
#{315B325D33}
== #{315B325D33}
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> head second probe transcode/next next probe to binary! "1[2]3"
#{315B325D33}
[[2] #{33}]
== #{315B325D33}
 
So should be possible to recreate. Not without index issues though.
 
@rebolbot source transcode
 
transcode: make native! [[
    {Translates UTF-8 binary source to values. Returns [value binary].}
    source [binary!] "Must be Unicode UTF-8 encoded"
    /next {Translate next complete value (blocks as single value)}
    /only "Translate only a single value (blocks dissected)"
    /error {Do not throw errors - return error object as value in place}
]]
 
3:14 AM
Dangit, I need to try that TRANSCODE/PARSE thing I was trying to sell BrianH on
 
And where is @BrianH ?
 
load-next: funct [string [string!]][out: transcode/next to binary! string out/2: skip string subtract length? string length? to string! out/2 out]
 
I felt confident it could be done with no performance loss; possibly a gain for the simple cases if they were finessed with recognizers in the parse.
 
How 'bout that!!
@HostileFork Yes. Do.
@RebolBot
load-next: funct [string [string!]][out: transcode/next to binary! string out/2: skip string subtract length? string length? to string! out/2 out]
head second probe load-next next "1[2]3"
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> load-next: funct [string [string!]] [out: transcode/next to binary! string out/2: skip string subtract length? string length? to string! out/2 out] head second probe load-next "1[2]3"
[1 "[2]3"]
== "1[2]3"
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> load-next: funct [string [string!]] [out: transcode/next to binary! string out/2: skip string subtract length? string length? to string! out/2 out] head second probe load-next next "1[2]3"
[[2] "3"]
== "1[2]3"
 
3:22 AM
A challenge to no one in particular: do this in less code!
 
@rgchris Feel free to pitch in. I realize that I may not fully understand it, and like most things I see once and then don't ever use, that understanding has faded into vagueness. But I do remember Brian's objections to my modification never made sense to me. He didn't seem comfortable with a quick sniff of the parse inputs before the setup is done...I never got that. Here was his objection in context along with my rebuttals:
Mar 7 at 21:35, by BrianH
@HostileFork PARSE is too heavy-weight to use in startup code or in some lower-level mezzanines. It has too much dialect processing overhead. That is why we use FIND a lot in the startup code instead of PARSE. TRANSCODE would be a low-level API.
( Not only did I find that super quickly, I can paste it inline, and people can follow the link instead of crudely copying and pasting it. I still don't get the uphill battle for SO chat. :-/ )
 
@HostileFork If pitching in means editing the C code, that might take a while...
 
@rgchris Oh, no I meant more from the user model of how PARSE would have a transcode keyword
Checking to make sure that what I'm saying is coherent. I'm pretty sure about my C part and it being super cheap, and just removing a separate transcode entry point.
14
A: Let any site onebox with <meta> tags

user149432I'm all for opening up oneboxing, but not for creating yet another standard. There are already several competing standards for onebox-like functionality and semantic representation of web page data: oEmbed Facebook's Open Graph1 Microformats Schema RDFa If Stack Exchange is going to do this,...

 
Q: what's the format to give oneboxing here? eg. for CC
 
@GrahamChiu Special allowance made to the Feeds user?
 
3:28 AM
And @rgchris did your conference feed ever make it here?
 
Nope—must not like my Atom feed.
 
@rgchris is it just a url then?
 
No, because it doesn't onebox any url I post here, but oneboxes every url Feeds does.
Feeds is a special user.
I did check—my feed does validate
 
@rebolbot fetch 10003876
@rebolbot versioni?
 
@GrahamChiu Can you elaborate on that?
 
3:33 AM
@HostileFork I don't understand why they don't just do this.
@HostileFork I'm not certain—on the face of it, I think what you suggest is reasonable. I like being able to specify types to transcode.
parse "1[2]3" [transcode integer! transcode block! transcode integer!]
 
@rgchris Chat features aren't their highest priority at this point in time. I think the things that get added are mostly what the people who work on the site and use the chat rooms for support and talking to each other need.
There was also a clear slowdown in the StackOverflow site features as they started working on changing their model. At first they thought they were going to let people pay to host their own stackexchanges for whatever domain they were interested in. But then there were many clones and they decided to cancel that, as it seemed a dead end and was missing the coherence and quality assurance.
 
@HostileFork Not that I know the intricacies of their system, I think it'd take ten minutes to implement with no adverse/exploitable effects. Whatsoever.
:P
 
@rebolbot search schema
 
@GrahamChiu On: 12 minutes ago by: HostileFork in: 10003876
 
@rebolbot fetch 10003876
 
3:39 AM
So they handed those people their data back, and decide to go through the Area 51 process to make new communities. It's been slower to see truly new features coming to StackOverflow itself since then. Also I don't know how projects like Trello borrow from the same teams, if at all.
 
Looks like the server refuses to let me post that message!
 
You see lots of server upgrades and moving and architectural changes; I think they just try to deal with the volume and growth curves, especially with so many sites
 
goliath moves slowly
look at how many hours it took for Robert's reputation to get here
 
@rgchris Well you don't want someone to onebox a giant webpage, so you've got to put in some kind of throttling. As per their post...their main thing is feeling like the idea is "out in the wild" already and other sites are doing it. They don't want any extensibility standard to come from StackOverflow; they want to follow the standard when someone else makes it.
 
anyone see this one come into the room via feed ? curecode.org/rebol3/ticket.rsp?id=2032&cursor=1
 
3:45 AM
If you had a working prototype from 10 minutes work that showed the range of inputs for things they accept now that looked nice AND was built on a standard that they didn't invent, they'd probably listen up in the meta chat tavern
 
@HostileFork There is no other reason for Opengraph to exist.
(sucks though it does)
 
@GrahamChiu Nope. Thats an awfully vague bug, though perhaps the attachments make it clear. But they aren't working in a way that looks like a curecode failure maybe?
 
Google/Facebook (so I am lead to believe)/Twitter (after application) 'onebox' using Opengraph.
 
@HostileFork I was asking if the CC feed is working ...
 
Jun 11 at 5:40, by Feeds
posted on June 11, 2013 by WayneTsui

[Bug] When I run a spider programme, after several mininutes, the console would terminated abnormally. OS: Win7 Rebol Version: 2.100.111.3.1

 
3:50 AM
ok, what did you search on to get that?
I searched here for Program terminated abnormally and got naught
BTW, I get errors if I try and view the attachments to that report
anyone else able to see them?
@rebolbot search spider
 
@GrahamChiu On: 5 minutes ago by: HostileFork in: 10003925
 
@GrahamChiu Just "abnormally" worked. It's 9 down (well, soon to be 10) for "program terminated abnormally" sorted by newest.
 
@RebolBot
do http://reb4.me/r3/altxml og: load-xml/dom http://newsroom.fb.com/News/636/Facebook-Releases-Data-Including-All-National-Security-Requests collect [foreach meta og/get-by-tag <meta> [parse any [meta/get #property ""]["og:" mk: (keep to word! mk keep meta/get #content)]]]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> do reb4.me/r3/altxml og: load-xml/dom reb4.me/r3/makedoc?html collect [foreach meta og/get-by-tag <meta> [parse any [meta/get #property ""] ["og:" mk: (keep to word! mk keep meta/get #content)]]]
== [type "article" url "http://reb4.me/r/makedoc" title "MakeDoc" description "MakeDoc" image "http://reb4.me/x/forklogo-sketch.png" site_name "reb4.me"]
 
Since I'm consolidating from 4 computers to just 2, I finally have to acknowledge that mostly the only reason the other two were around was because I was too lazy to sort the files on them. So I'm pulling everything down into some replicated and encrypted volumes and try and defend against someone robbing my car of all my worldly possessions while I move.
 
4:04 AM
@RebolBot
do http://reb4.me/r3/altxml og: load-xml/dom http://newsroom.fb.com/News/636/Facebook-Releases-Data-Including-All-National-Security-Requests collect [foreach meta og/get-by-tag <meta> [parse any [meta/get #property ""]["og:" mk: (keep to word! mk keep meta/get #content)]]]
(page picked at random)
(guess it didn't want to read that one)
 
On topic: the number of Rebol icon variations is kind of insane. Mostly off topic: every photo I find from before I had the true high-end professionally color calibrated monitor are now driving me absolutely crazy. I've now acquired another damn hi-fi expensive taste from which I cannot go back.
 
well, it bothers me that I can not get Program terminated abnormally as a search pattern working - @earl
 
@GrahamChiu Can't? :-/ Works for me. Screenshot?
 
yes, I know abnormally works - but what about Program terminated abnormally ?
It's not reading the header, just the content of the feed message I think
Well, terminated abnormally also works
minor irritations like this are beginning to mount :)
 
@GrahamChiu The text field is short, but you'll have to take my word it says "program terminated abnormally". I'll sort of put it in the middle :-)
Well I can't tell you why; there are possibilities like that my account hashes me onto a different search server and they've got one that's failing, which might explain why other people were having problems.
Why don't you make a similar shot of your results and then I'll take it to the meta chat? One big difference about here vs. AltME is that if there are provable bugs they generally find and fix them. :-)
 
4:19 AM
@HostileFork Have they fixed it yet? :)
 
@GrahamChiu Well, for one thing... you're still searching by relevance and not newest. The heuristic for relevance is some weird scoring algorithm. Try switching to "newest"
4
Q: On "chat search" make "newest" the default tab, instead of "relevance"

kiamlalunoWhen I search something on chat's posts, the default tab shown is "relevance," but it would probably be preferable if the default tab is "newest."

 
@HostileFork oh crap = user interface error!
rebolbot.iriscouch.com is now up .. so do I have to actually read how couchdb works?? :(
Seeing as all my Amazon SDB work has been invalidated by Amazon killing all SOAP support
 
4:35 AM
@GrahamChiu That's not good at all.
 
@rgchris REST is the way of the world I guess
 
Things about R3 that bug me #324125: FORM — e.g. form quote :word
@RebolBot do/2 form quote :word
Did I say something to offend her?
 
@johnk Adrian got the modular bot working
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> form quote :word
== "word"
 
@RebolBot do form quote :word
 
4:41 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> form quote :word
== ":word"
 
@GrahamChiu Well @earl mentioned it already here that it seems newest is the more useful and therefore should be the default. This is kind of like Facebook when they tried to push their "top stories" as the default vs "chronological". Except I think it's less sinister: as with many text-input search engines, they are trying to give you the common case. I think it's okay to have a default, but let you set an override preference.
@GrahamChiu Do note that, as with Google, you'd have gotten better results on relevance with putting "program terminated abnormally" in quotes.
 
@HostileFork It's like I can't set google search to default to NZ
wants to search the world
 
Well don't be too hasty in thinking that's bad. Because the other extreme of what's happening is, search results different for each person. Who your friends are...what products you have bought...create a little bubble. It's what Julia Angywn (met her here in Austin, SXSW talk) calls "the hall of mirrors".
I think that regardless, there should be some sort of standard threads and you should be warned when a result has been "highly personalized" and you are deviating in various ways in terms of seeing something in a search that others would not see.
 
5:10 AM
@HostileFork Is nested [[Square Brackets]](link) in a link worth supporting? [[Square Brackets]](reb4.me)
I guess SO Chat doesn't! Bold in link — but does do bold.
 
@rgchris I've found GitHub MarkDown is really screwy, doesn't support lots of things that StackOverflow does. :-/
@rgchris I notice that the Make Doc code is... really uncommented. I will present it in contrast to the way I write stuff, let's say rebmu or perhaps whitespacers. While I may be extreme as I attempt to write code that teaches, I think the other extreme of none runs some problems for me because the purpose is hard to understand.
And why is the license a document on a finite state machine?
 
Because I didn't write it. And the original had a license that is included in the document.
@HostileFork I'm allergic to comments.
Or at least I just never developed the habit. A result of learning to program individually?
 
@rgchris Well I don't know if a "figure it out" license link is the right one to have. :-) Perhaps we should start pushing to relicense things Apache just to keep things simple unless there's a good reason? It's not like there are all that many parties to get on board.
@rgchris I'd like to see Rebol developers cultivate more social practices. :-) But at the same time, good abstractions and good code will beat a good comment any day but only if you've truly made it obvious.
 
5:26 AM
Even Gabriele comments his code
@rgchris Allergies are treated by rapid desensitization programs
 
It is the first time anyone has ever commented on my lack of comments though :)
 
@rgchris we just all think it!
 
@GrahamChiu Well now I know how you feel.
 
@rgchris that's okay, I understand you write for yourself
I write for my future self who can't remember what his past self ever thought
 
As I understand it, Make Doc is an attempt to use a Rebol dialect as the input to something that generates HTML... as opposed to these various markups (MarkDown, wiki markup) that use just text to project into HTML?
 
5:32 AM
@GrahamChiu I do try and write clean code that hopefully wouldn't perplex anyone else. I know it's not the same thing.
 
Is all input to Make Doc valid parseable Rebol? Is all output HTML? I kind of feel some summary of these kinds of invariants would be helpful for people grasping it
 
@HostileFork Not exactly.
@HostileFork Originally it was a set document format written by Carl to format documentation. Because the script is quite easy to understand, it spawned derivatives (such as MDP).
And my own embeddable version.
However it lacked inline formatting (and other stuff), many of these derivatives had their own way of filling in the gaps.
 
"The input file is an ordinary text file." Hrrm. That doesn't seem very Rebol-ish. It points away from the idea that Rebol is adequate as an input format for markup. Anything else should be some sort of shim or translator, but I would think that the proper component would use Rebol.
Not saying such translators shouldn't exist, but if they can't be abandoned, then isn't it an indictment of Rebol as an adequate dialect for document expression sans tool?
 
Anyway—as it evolved, the idea of separating the scanner and emitter matured somewhat. My latest take is a refinement of that.
@HostileFork Maybe so, but the idea of forcing delimiters on freeform text isn't so great either. Also, Rebol strings don't have inline structure, so any inline link markup/formatting would not be Rebol-ish either.
 
5:49 AM
@RebolBot
print [{@rgchris: What's} reverse {erutcurts enilni} {and why do I care?}]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print ["@rgchris: What's" reverse "erutcurts enilni" "and why do I care?"]
@rgchris: What's inline structure and why do I care?
 
@HostileFork With the version of Make Doc that I've just posted, you're welcome to write documents in that style. I can write a parser for you if you so wish.
 
@rgchris Well I know what you mean of course but my point is just that it's hard to really give a coherent "Rebol story" when the tools we use seem to not really be based on a "Rebol worldview". I definitely encourage the idea of translators to ease the pain... I'll harken back to my "apples for apples" stuff. But I thought the idea was that if you were willing to buy all the way in, you'd be in a minimal yet powerful heaven...
And who better to buy all the way in than Rebol programmers! I made my dream dialect take pure Rebol as input. No conveniences. I was willing to do braces and such and not be upset about having to delimit strings even if theoretically a parser might (for that specific subset) not need it
So I'm suggesting that MakeDoc define itself first as a Rebol input to whatever output format system, and we pledge allegiance and use it that way. If people need a preprocessor okay, why not... but if you're the kind of person who'll throw the preprocessor out: streamlined code.
 
@RebolBot do do reb4.me/r3/makedoc make-doc/custom [sect1 ["I Am Header"] para [<b> "I Am Bold"]] [markup: %asciidoc.r]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> do reb4.me/r3/makedoc make-doc [sect1 ["I Am Header"] para [<b> "I Am Bold"]]
== {
<!-- document begin -->
<h1 id="section-1">I Am Header</h1>
<p><b>I Am Bold</b></p>
<!-- document end -->
}
 
5:59 AM
@rebolbot delete
 
Well that's what I'm talking about, that's why I said I thought make doc was a Rebol input and (HTML, otherwise) target. Looks good. You said it wasn't quite...
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> do reb4.me/r3/makedoc make-doc/custom [sect1 ["I Am Header"] para [<b> "I Am Bold"]] [markup: %asciidoc.r]
== {
== I Am Header

*I Am Bold*
}
 
@HostileFork Historically.
 
@rgchris So the not quite is you look inside of strings, instead of enforcing them to be structure?
That sounds like CDATA hacks in XML...
You don't want to encourage that!
 
Google balloon launches today!
 
6:03 AM
@HostileFork I'm not quite sure how...
I'd say creating a document that is strictly Rebol would be quite joyless—even if you are familiar with Rebol. That's just my opinion.
 
@rgchris I did it for my dream journal. I thought that's what you were supposed to do. :-/
The whole thing about the brackets not needing a shift? No?
[][][][][][][][][][][][][]
I typed that quite quickly...
Isn't the point about finding the joy in the dialecting, and if we can't, the design must need to be fixed?
 
@HostileFork I've thought that is a good improvisation—but what if you missed a bracket, or used a name that didn't conform to a Rebol word?
 
A good editor can more easily catch it if it's structurally coherent against the system that your fancy railroad diagrams point a way forward for a common format for Rebol and Red... than it can through catching errors in strings.
 
Or didn't escape a caret. But I do take your point.
 
@rgchris I think... there are two axes of the problem, and we've already pointed them out. And I cited YAML as the symptom. To some, the so-called convenience of YAML makes--to them--Rebol look as unwieldy as XML looks to Rebol programmers.
 
6:10 AM
@GrahamChiu i would like to set google to something english speaking at least. it always defaults back for me to chinese or thai... i can't even understand the characters...
 
@onetom location automatically detected :(
the first of the stratospherically placed balloons providing internet at 3g speeds to remote communties was released today near Christchurch in the south island of NZ
 
If Rebol has a design error that makes it not ergonomic for what people are using data exchange formats for, it may be a failure to apply the design properly. Or it may be a failure of the design. Either way we can push on it. To me, Rebol is not released yet. It never really was until it was open source.
 
@HostileFork YAML has its own constraints too. But why doesn't Markdown or Textile conform to Python coding style?
 
@rgchris Well for starters, it has nowhere near the potential to be used as a literate markup language that Rebol does. They wouldn't even consider it.
 
@onetom Pehaps it should understand your browser settings and do the right thing .. or .. use a different search engine
 
6:14 AM
They don't conform to YAML either.
 
@rgchris Well, they also don't program in Rebol when they write software. Your point is?
 
It's a compromise. The main delimiter is a newline. That's pretty easy for anyone to understand.
 
Is there a semantic view of a curecode ticket?
 
We don't want to be ignorant of trends. Obviously people didn't like using HTML or XML over the long run... and every time I go back to use something that expects me to type HTML I use markdown from chatting here so much. If I edit wikipedia anymore (which is super rare) I screw that up too
 
@GrahamChiu Before I discovered the API: reb4.me/r/load-curecode
 
6:19 AM
Should one try and get that from the CC RSS feed?
@RebolBot
do/2 do http://reb4.me/r/load-curecode
load-ccpage 2032
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> do reb4.me/r/load-curecode load-ccpage 2032
** Script error: load has no refinement called markup
** Where: load-ccpage try do either either either -apply-
** Near: load-ccpage 2032

>>
 
@rgchris {And HTML is of course a terrible thing to type in a line oriented format. But last I checked} [{I could type}] (http://something/like/this) {in Rebol and have it work. While it may be awkward for certain purposes, I say fine. BUT the} reverse {segatnavda} {have not been fully explored.}
 
http://curecode.org/rebol3/api.rsp?type=ticket&show=all&id=2032
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> do/2 do reb4.me/r/load-curecode load-ccpage 2032
** Script error: incompatible refinement: 2
** Where: try do either either either -apply-
** Near: try load/all join %/users/try-REBOL/data/ system/script/args...

>>
 
6:23 AM
There may be a mistake in Rebol's design to assume a file without a Rebol header should be interpreted in the same format that a file with a header has.
And perhaps, a file without a Rebol header could be interpreted in a way more friendly to what we might use for a chat message here, by convention.
 
@rebolbot do probe load curecode.org/rebol3/…
 
We have the power to decide these things, but we lose this power when we lose what kind of thinking makes Rebol special.
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> read curecode.org/rebol3/…
== #{
5B6F6B205B0A2020202073756D6D6172793A202250726F6772616D207465726D
696E617465642061626E6F726D616C6C792E22200A2020202064657363726970
74696F6E3A207B5768656E20492072756E2061207370696465722070726F6772
616D6D652C206166746572207365766572616C206D696E696E757465732C2074
686520636F6E736F6C6520776F756C64207465726D696E617465642061626E6F
726D616C6C792E5E4D0A4F533A2057696E37205E4D0A5265626F6C2056657273
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> to string! read curecode.org/rebol3/…
== {[ok [
    summary: "Program terminated abnormally."
    description: {When I run a spider programme, after several mininutes, the console would terminated abnormally.^^M
OS: Win7 ^^M
Rebol Version: 2.100.111.3.1}
    code: #[none]
    version: "alpha 111"
    severity: "crash"
    status: "submitted"
    resolution: "open"
    priority: "high"
    type: "Bug"
 
Perhaps if you LOAD a file or string without a Rebol header, it will reject it, unless you specify some kind of codec as a parameter.
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> probe load curecode.org/rebol3/…
[ok [
        summary: "Program terminated abnormally."
        description: {When I run a spider programme, after several mininutes, the console would terminated abnormally.^M
OS: Win7 ^M
Rebol Version: 2.100.111.3.1}
        code: none
        version: "alpha 111"
        severity: "crash"
        status: "submitted"
        resolution: "open"
        priority: "high"
 
6:27 AM
@GrahamChiu that was nice. but it reminds me a little bit to the garbage patches thrown into the oceans... these things will eventually fail, u lose contact and then just roam in the air for who knows how long. probably until the plastic deteriorates because of the sunlight
 
@rgchris Not trying to be negative here, in my opinion you do some of the best and fastest turnaround work I've seen in Rebol; or really practically any other language for that matter. ( The commenting, well... :-/ ) And it's great to keep pushing things out of R2; closed source has no future. So these ports are great.
 
@onetom Apparently they can be destroyed with a remote command ... hopefully not hackable!
 
@HostileFork Load has no tolerance where I think for most people (non-programmers) writing documents should have tolerance to some degree. Where the plain-texters (I'm going to call it generic PTF) benefit is that the other delimiters are mainly inside or beside the text, not outside.
 
@tomgblonline Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Sorry, your reputation score is too low to chat at present. Not our rules, but those of Stackoverflow. If you were to answer some questions, or ask some, we might be able to help by upvoting you. In the meantime, have a look at a Rebol introduction.
 
@GrahamChiu so u can convert them into garbage in the ocean... well :)
 
6:30 AM
@onetom double as weather balloons? :)
 
@rgchris Well I actually am spending time I don't have to address this... so I have to go :-( a tremendous amount to do. But I'd like to get thinking on the idea of more clarity. While I applaud the porting of MakeDoc to R3, the code is unclear; and that lack of clarity extends all the way to the license, so I think showing a firm basis of why the design is as it is would help. It becomes easy to pinpoint disagreements when a rationale is laid out step by step.
 
@HostileFork I appreciate that you think so :)
 
"Q: What's step 2...? "A: Step 1 is collect underpants!" "Q: No, no, what's step TWO!?" "A: Step 3 is profit!" (as per South Park)
Anyway, not going to bed, just getting back to things, I have... er... a lot to do.
Must...close...window... :-) TTYS
 
@rebolbot source cc-rule
 
[
summary: "Program terminated abnormally."
description: {When I run a spider programme, after several mininutes, the console would terminated abnormally.^M
OS: Win7 ^M
Rebol Version: 2.100.111.3.1}
code: none
version: "alpha 111"
severity: "crash"
status: "submitted"
resolution: "open"
priority: "high"
type: "Bug"
platform: "Windows"
created: 11-Jun-2013/7:31:31
modified: 11-Jun-2013/7:31:31
user: "WayneTsui"
category: "Unspecified"
reproduce: "Always"
fixed-in: none
project: "REBOL 3.0"
comments: []
 
6:36 AM
@HostileFork I'd be happy to address the license. I can't speak for Gabriele, but I am open. I code because I want to be productive with Rebol. While I am amenable to open source licenses, I generally leave it to people to ask.
 
@GrahamChiu Sorry, cc-rule is not in my vocab!
 
@GrahamChiu Have you heard about Loon? it's starting in NZ.
 
@DocKimbel Yes, posted about it a few messages ago!
@rebolbot search Loon
 
@GrahamChiu Can you elaborate on that?
@GrahamChiu What do you mean?
 
crap
 
6:38 AM
@GrahamChiu Oh, I'm 10min late. I should read the last messages here before posting a new one. :)
 
@DocKimbel I was watching it on TV
@rebolbot search loon
@rebolbot search loon
@rebolbot search balloon
 
First 50 results
On: 34 minutes ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10004992
On: 4 minutes ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10005565
On: 2 minutes ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10005592
On: 8 minutes ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10005517
On: 15 minutes ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10005386
On: 33 minutes ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10004999
On: 42 minutes ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10004847
First 50 results
On: 16 minutes ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10005386
On: 34 minutes ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10004999
On: 43 minutes ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10004847
 
@rebolbot search bal
 
@GrahamChiu Query string needs to be at least 4 characters
 
@rebolbot search Red
 
6:51 AM
@DocKimbel Query string needs to be at least 4 characters
 
@DocKimbel lol
 
:))
 
@RebolBot search purple
 
@GrahamChiu sorry, purple not found so far
 
@HostileFork As to the code being unclear—I would like to address that. I try to stick to the philosophy of small parts loosely joined and that the small portions of code each make sense on their own—if they don't, I revise. I suppose I can't say for certain that comments have helped me understand anyone else's code.
 
6:55 AM
@rebolbot search red
 
First 50 results
On: 4 minutes ago by: DocKimbel in: 10005686
On: 7 hours ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10002673
On: 26 minutes ago by: RebolBot in: 10005369
On: 6 hours ago by: RebolBot in: 10002859
On: 7 hours ago by: RebolBot in: 10002696
On: 7 hours ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10002579
On: 48 minutes ago by: HostileFork in: 10004934
On: 7 hours ago by: RebolBot in: 10002730
On: 7 hours ago by: Graham Chiu in: 10002610
On: 1 hours ago by: rgchris in: 10004310
On: 7 hours ago by: johnk in: 10002729
On: 36 minutes ago by: rgchris in: 10005107
 
@DocKimbel made an exception for red
 
Just need to isolate it from words: my usage was 'discovered'.
 
well, I should do a parse rule so we don't get partial words eg redneck is a match
 
Are you searching against your own store?
 
6:59 AM
@rgchris yeah, just temporary until I read about this futon thing
@RebolBot fetch 10004934
 
@GrahamChiu {"event_type":1,"time_stamp":1371276437,"content":"A good editor can more easily catch it if it's structurally coherent against the system that your fancy railroad diagrams point a way forward for a common format for Rebol and Red... than it can through catching errors in strings.","user_id":211160,"user_name":"HostileFork","room_id":291,"message_id":‌​10004934}
 
7:32 AM
@GrahamChiu Thanks! :)
 
7:52 AM
@ingo I got an iriscouch account now .. just not sure what to do next!
 
8:27 AM
@RebolBot who is sqlab?
 
@GrahamChiu Sorry, I don't know anything about sqlab yet. But ...
 
@sqlab hi Anton!
I see you can talk now.
 
You know I am not very talkative
 
@sqlab No matter. You can change your avatar. For this
@rebolbot faq for sqlab
 
@GrahamChiu StackOverflow Chat FAQ @sqlab
 
8:33 AM
"Windows NT grandaddy OpenVMS taken out back, single gunshot heard" theregister.co.uk/2013/06/10/openvms_death_notice :-(
 
8:44 AM
@RebolBot who is Brett
 
@GrahamChiu Sorry, I don't know anything about Brett yet. But ...
 
not easy to deal with SO,
I really would prefer AltMe
 
@sqlab some of us are looking at writing a rebol client to this
best of both worlds
Despite being written in Rebol, altme does not allow rebol code evaluation which we have here!
 
@GrahamChiu my coding days are almost gone. And I doubt that I would be of great help. But nethertheless I wish you luck and success
@RebolBot print "thanks"
 
@sqlab Can you elaborate on that?
 
8:55 AM
@sqlab No coding anymore? In admin now?
 
@GrahamChiu more or less
 
rebolbot needs a 'do if a command is on the same line. not required if shift-enter to the next line
@rebolbot
print "I see ..."
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print "I see ..."
I see ...
 
@rebolbot
print "thanks"
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print "thanks"
thanks
 
8:58 AM
now that rebol3 is on droid, it means we have more control of our devices even if it is not for work!
@RebolBot who is rebolek
 
@GrahamChiu Sorry, I don't know anything about pekr yet. But ...
@GrahamChiu I know this about Respectech and their local time is unknown.
@GrahamChiu Sorry, I don't know anything about onetom yet. But ...
@GrahamChiu Sorry, I don't know anything about rebolek yet. But ...
 
@sqlab - don't mention altme here, or you are going to be slammed by gurus here :-)
@Respectech - could you ask Carl, if sources to R3 Chat, Altme, or IOS could be released?
 
@rebolbot who is pekr?
 
@GrahamChiu Sorry, I don't know anything about pekr yet. But ...
 
I wonder if R3 chat backend would be usable for something like SO functionality. Or just the reverse - bring SO to R3 console ...
rebolbot still needs some education!
 
9:10 AM
@pekr Just testing parse rule
which is not working :(
 
Well, I can remember some whois prior testing - did it work in the past? Can't remember
 
no... still trying
@RebolBot who is onetom
 
@GrahamChiu Sorry, I don't know anything about onetom yet. But ...
 
@RebolBot delete yourself :-)
 
@pekr Can you elaborate on that?
 
9:21 AM
@RebolBot - well, yes, turn off the plug :-)
 
@pekr What do you mean?
 
@RebolBot I give up, bring me a beer!
 
@pekr What do you mean?
 
@RebolBot who is pekr?
 
@GrahamChiu Sorry, I don't know anything about pekr yet. But ...
 
9:29 AM
I need to be special command then :-)
 
silly parse rule
 
pekr is complicated, you need special handler on him, not just a parse rule!
 
oh well, another day ...
 
10:36 AM
@GrahamChiu That's great. What's left before we can shift her into this room?
Ideone credentials for one
Need to change delete to be silent by default
and the source command.
 
11:33 AM
@rgchris Yeah, I'm personally still on the fences about that. In any case: use MOLD.
 
 
4 hours later…
3:47 PM
reb4me is down :( Just when I was on a roll and need altjson
 
4:11 PM
Hosting hiccup, looks to be back up.
 
thanks!
 
5:07 PM
@ir-g Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 29 so chat away!
 
5:42 PM
@johnk I got up early today .. 5:30 ... to see if I can finish updating the new commands. So, we don't keep playing catch up.
 
6:15 PM
@rebolbot search hiccup
 
First 50 results
On: 2 hours ago by: rgchris in: 10012035
 
@rebolbot fetch 10012035
 
@GrahamChiu {"event_type":1,"time_stamp":1371312694,"content":"Hosting hiccup, looks to be back up.","user_id":292969,"user_name":"rgchris","room_id":291,"message_id":10012035}
 
6:34 PM
@johnk @adrian - I've pushed the new commands, and hopefully updated the api correctly!
 
7:00 PM
@rebolbot twitter
 
@GrahamChiu Can you elaborate on that?
 
7:29 PM
yesterday, by Robert M. Münch
@GrahamChiu We are still organizing the code base. We want to move away from make-make.r to cmake. IMO an absolut necessary step to have one clear build-system.
I was kind of hoping Rebol would have an "rmake" that would be one of those apples-to-apples ports of cmake. So I guess this is good, in that if Rebol used cmake it would be more of an incentive to create rmake.
Continuing the thread of discussing with @rgchris regarding MakeDoc though, the design of rmake would be such that there would be a conversion process from CMake files to the rmake input which would be Rebolized. This conversion step would be something that if-and-when someone became comfortable with the pure Rebol process, they could run it over their files and then throw away the converter...making an even smaller tool.
But the tool could be encapped and deployed both ways; with the converter as part of the package, or without.
 
8:00 PM
@rebolbot present
 
@GrahamChiu HostileFork GrahamChiu grantwparks rgchris earl johnk pekr DocKimbel onetom rebolek RobertM.Münch Respectech
 
00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

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