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05:00 - 16:0016:00 - 23:00

5:30 AM
How can I scroll a listview to the first item in a group?
 
 
1 hour later…
6:45 AM
Morning
 
morning
 
Morning
 
8:08 AM
@milleniumbug wonder if they are any good
 
Doesn't seem like they use MVVM...
or follow or what I should say
 
 
3 hours later…
11:04 AM
Morning guys :)
 
11:17 AM
Mornin'
Can mails have subdomains? Like name@subdomain.domain.tld?
 
sure
 
Looks like it should possible. Just a configuration of the DNS records.
 
my own email address is of that form
 
Cool
I don't recall if I mentioned it, but the other service I'm in the process of integrating with gives responses as emails. So it's SFTP to send a message and then mail response.
 
indeed just setup proper MX records for it and have your servers accept mail for it and it should work
yea i remember
given thought to which library you're gonna use for handling such stuff?
 
11:21 AM
Not yet no, just brainstorming approaches.
 
i imagine you'll have a dedicated smtp server to do the actual mail reception and then just pull it off as a client from app?
 
I was thinking a very basic SMTP server, and then couple it with the message system you've mentioned before. So the SMTP server translates the mail into a message, and the message is then queued on the system that handles responses.
 
well i wouldn't do the smtp server bit
given the archaic nature of systems you're dealing with, i'd say leave it to proper implementations like postfix
or iis smtp if you need to stick with windows
MailEnable is another solution that my company has used for some relay emails internally (windows based)
and then do a service that pulls off it and sends messages.. ideally when a client sends it request to check messages (unless you know that there's a client on other end and email message won't just end up dieing in timeout waiting in queue)
 
Keep in mind that I don't need these mails to exist or be stored. They should simply be processed and deleted as they arrive.
 
well that's like saying "i don't need to download a video to see it"
while that's how it appears to a layman - it's not technically correct :)
so you still need an smtp server to store & hand it to your client for processing.. you can certainly implement your own and bypass the store and forward approach but its a lot of work for very little reward
I suppose you could use something like this: github.com/cosullivan/SmtpServer
 
11:31 AM
That was my original idea. Just something very basic, that receives a message and then lets me decide what to do with it.
 
well you can certainly give it a go
 
I would like to avoid having to create accounts, pay for storage, and so on when I don't need it.
 
mailenable is free -- iis smtp is free?
postfix is free :)
all of them are on-premise solutions so no account creation / storage payments involved
well see if the nuget has enough functionality to deal with your data
 
Maybe I don't understand how those systems work then. I assume I'd have to create an account that would receive the mails?
 
well that'll be the case for no matter what you use
there has to be some email address to send the email to
 
11:33 AM
Not necessarily. I can apply logic to the email address.
 
smtp servers generally don't deal with accounts - they deal with domains - if the domain matches, they take the email
when pulling the mail out of them, that's when "account" is needed to ensure authorized user gets it - not sure how nuget handles it
but yea normal email servers would expect a dummy account to exist.. not something I would have considered to be an issue
 
It's not really an issue, it's just pointless when I don't need it.
A specialized SMTP server could just take the mail as it arrives, process it and then discard it, returning whatever response to indicate it was received or rejected.
 
sure
problem isn't with specialization .. problem is if it doesn't do what you need it to out of the box or if you run into an issue.. this will be a major drain of time & effort
 
Well, the SMTP is pretty basic, and it only needs to be able to handle very specialized mails as well. But I get your concerns.
It's basically a trade off where I need to decide what kind of maintenance I want to do.
 
yea I guess :)
 
11:49 AM
It would be easier if I could at least differentiate the responses from the content of the mail :P Then at least I'd only need a single mailbox. But at the moment I need a mailbox for each client, so I can properly direct the responses.
 
Hey Alex
 
Hey Maverik
 
12:13 PM
Have any of you tried any passwordless login systems?
I remember reading about a website where you would write your username and it'd send you an email with a link and you'd be logged in.
I think the argument was, that if they have access to your email, you're already compromised.
I was curious how it works from a UX viewpoint.
 
I'm on the fence about cleaning up Reed's most recent star..
it's not something we can use for reference - says nothing about what the link points to.. (so is a perfect candidate for cleanup - yet i feel bad for cleaning it O.O)
@WilliamMariager you mean the link in star that's visible now after the clutter cleanup? :)
 
And yes - passwordless systems are the way forward
as a user of this myself (not specifically the linked library but the concept), i must prefer this over typing my 16 character password each time I have to sign into google
instead each site that uses google signin .. just sends me prompt on mobile and i tap the google app and done
the tap itself requires my fingerprint - doesn't get any more secure than that (technically it can be done with my PIN too.. but then if somebody has my PIN, there's something majorly wrong)
 
Yeah, I think the philosophy is that if people have access to your emails or in your case pin, you're already screwed and a password wont protect you anymore.
 
thoughts on Magic link via email to login: Monzo (my bank) uses this method right now on Android as they haven't published the biometric authentication yet.. it's still less annoying than having to type my password
(still considered secure because i have to unlock my phone or login to email via 2 factor adn then get the email to click the link)
 
12:22 PM
Phones are generally considered a good security measure yeah.
 
of course as I said yesterday.. in all security systems.. the weakest link remains your end user and if they choose to have Pa55word for password and have no 2nd factor .. well.. there goes all your security measures but at least you're not responsible for their ignorance/stupidity
 
yesterday I linked a password checker - i tried some of my internal company passwords on it.. (it's JS based - nothing goes to server) -- they'd be cracked in minutes by an average computer the cracker reckons
best case a few hours
 
Here in Denmark we have a keycard system to authenticate on banks, government sites and more. I think it's pretty cool.
Obviously only possible because we have such a small population.
 
O.O wth is that?
 
12:25 PM
Well, if we want to connect to our bank, we use a username and password and it'll ask us for one of the keys. Each key is only used once. Once you have less than 10 keys left, they send you a new keycard.
They have embraced the security of smartphones though, so if I connect to my bank via my phone, I wont need the keycard until I want to make a transaction.
It's called Nem ID which is translates to Easy ID.
Clever system, but it was met with a bit of resistance, especially from seniors.
 
erm we have proper RSA ids for the same purpose
except lloyds who believe security is bullshit and having complex or even long password is stupid
(you can't register a password longer with anything outisde normal alpha numeric range and it has to be less than 13 characters -- possibly lower.. I just gave up and tried 9 character)
they don't believe in rsa key ids - and instead want you to give them a second password that they'll ask random characters from
cos 2 simple passwords = 2 factor..
i guess technically i can't contradict that
 
Well, you could :P A 2 factor system uses two different factors, like a password and a physical device like a phone.
What are proper RSA ids?
 
erm trying to locate one :)
barclays has a similar one
 
"similar"?
 
though I imagine for both banks most customers now simply use the RSA Id Tokens via apps
yea its blue and bulkier :)
like think blackberry's thick keyboard keys
 
12:36 PM
This is a single, shared system, for access to all instances, across government, banks, companies, etc. It's national level here. :)
 
meant for 70 year olds -- hsbc one slightly harder to use .. but it's more portable
 
You can replace the keycard with a digital authenticator which uses timed keys.
 
yea thats what we have
timed single use keys
usually 30 second long
 
Yeah, same here.
Just like Steam, World of Warcraft, etc. does it.
 
ok well in that case maybe you guys are better - we have a million different keys
each system has its own
still I'm thankful that at least they have something unlike lloyds
 
12:52 PM
random fact just learned: A Billion x can mean different things in different parts of the world!
apparently there's a long scale that says each term beyond million will be a million of the previous thus a Billion will be million millions.. while short scale says that each term will be thousand of previous term beyond million thus a billion will be thousand million!
 
@Maverik Indeed, English goes "million, billion, trillion", while Polish goes "milion, miliard, bilion, biliard, trylion, tryliard"
 
yea i just groked the wiki page on it :)
 
1:14 PM
biljard?
 
probably same as biliard - languages have different spellings but they mean the same thing usually :)
 
@milleniumbug Same in Denmark
 
nono biljard is same as game of pool
:P
 
ah yes that too!
 
Speaking of differences like that, I was quite surprised Japanese don't have street names - they number the blocks between the streets
 
1:20 PM
Which is hilarious when reporters forget. They'll read some news about a person or company makes 1 billion(1,000,000,000), and they'll read it as 1 billion(1,000,000,000,000) in Danish. :P
Suddenly, this person or company is dwarfing countries :P
 
maybe that's how they do counting on how much piracy costs
 
:D
it can also be used to hide your trillions (small).. oh I only make a billion(large)
 
They do it back and forth a few times, like a bad Google translate. :P
 
Like you have to wounder what went through their minds when the came up with the limewire sue
 
the same thing they're doing right now with encrypted apps "give us your keys - in the name of security"
just todays news.. our home secretary wants all encrypted chats in country to be readable by government agencies because one person used whatsapp for the recent attack in capital
even more surprising: vast majority of the population is in favour of this.. I can't wait to point and laugh when things they thought benign in their conversations turn out not so much with police knocking at their doors
 
1:34 PM
It's such a joke. "We won't bow down to terrorism!", except they are, it's affecting everyone.
 
and its so hard for "terrorists" to not just ask a developer to write them a custom encrypted app
 
And even with all this, it's still trivial to create custom secure communication.
Hah
Same point :P
 
but of course.. that's not really the intent of doing this - its the typical fear tactic
i wouldn't be surprised if the government paid off this person to cause the shooting
 
it's an interesting story actually, RIAA sued them for $75 trillion, in the end they payed $105 million in some kind of settlement. RIAA said that it was a milestone bla bla bla... like they got 0,00014% of what they asked for, and called it a success...
 
yea i read
its the same with the piratebay guy
its all fear tactic.. its everywhere.. you just have to be able to see it
 
1:37 PM
I'm always shocked when I hear how many people are willing to give up privacy.
 
I asked this random question in our slack channel (bunch of guys from here who aren't in wpf anymore but wanted to stick together for chat) - surprisingly i got the same answer "i got nothing to hide"
i was dumbstruck at that point
its like saying "i got nothing to lose" - until somebody takes you up on it and starts showing just how wrong you were
 
@Maverik what? where?
in the BCH?
 
yea
it was when i originally commented on the UK government quietly enabling government agencies to read all our information via snooping .. (snooper's charter)
because it was illegal originally they just passed the law to make it legal... I'm not sure how the hell does this system work and how stupid do people have to be to let such a thing work
 
Wasn't that like a classic case of misdirection? "Look over here, something bad is happening", while getting it through unnoticed.
 
unfortunately it seems i'm the only one who thinks that way
yes indeed
they passed it while people were fussing over brexit
 
1:43 PM
huh I wouldn't have thought so..
 
our now president had been trying to get such a thing going for years.. but now that shes president.. life is much easier with such stuff
but still.. at the end of the day - its peoples fault - its not like it didn't come up in news
it was on tv.. it was in newspapers.. it was in my news feed from google
 
head US is going to let the ISP's sell information about their customers :)
 
yet nobody gave a damn cos you know "i got nothing to hide" and "only criminals would worry about such things"
if i didn't love the job I'm at, i'd seriously consider leaving UK for canada.. i have good vibes about them so far
 
But... how are the summers in Canada?
 
dunno.. dont care :)
i'm in a dungeon right now.. literally - this place used to be prison - i'm 2 story underground
i don't see how anything else can possibly be a downgrade
my entire day and essentially all year is spent underground only to go home to sleep
 
1:47 PM
@Maverik Politicians once again using fear-mongering to spy on their own citizens
 
yup and people are too stupid to see it
and since i can't change their minds anytime soon - my only option is to leave what I don't agree with
I imagine that makes me an automatic terrorist.. cos i'm not willing to share what I type
or watch or hear or read..
 
ISTR terrorist attackers who attacked France last year used regular phones
 
i guess most people don't understand how does that stuff work
 
perfectly unencrypted transmission
 
its the same thing we have in our online world.. you can't make anything "hacker proof"
if somebody is determined enough.. there's a way to get what they want
 
1:49 PM
to be honest, i'm programming and i don't get understand how most stuff is executed
 
well you may not understand it because you haven't had a motivation to learn it
but if you did have some reason.. you'd learn.. you'd figure it out
 
plus everyone is happy if they can access internet and share nudes
i know some stuff from theoretical basis
practical you would need years to learn everything
 
not really
here's a trivial example
I started playing a game.. i found the inventory system to be absurd - what can I do? hmm.. well there's no immediate cheat that I can use to deal with this
so.. lets use something more rudimentary - find out where the game is storing the current inventory count using memory editor.. adjust the number - enjoy unlimited inventory
how long did it take me? two hours.. including research involved
no programming needed
 
Learning how basic crypto works isn't that difficult, applying it in practice is tricky and inventing your own schemes is very difficult
 
the tool asked: whats the current value you seek.. giveth.. change it.. done.. whats new value.. giveth.. the address you seekth is this:
 
1:52 PM
yeah that is easy if you use a dissembler
 
oh and on that topic - everybody wants to use Sha1 single iteration -- oh I'm secure now.. i have a hash!
no Proxy - no diassembler
CheatEngine.org - go ahead go see just how easy it is
 
It would probably take a little longer time figuring out how LI works
 
i know
 
ignore its name - its basically a memory editor
 
i used it
 
1:53 PM
CheatEngine is a very valuable debugging tool. I've used it a lot.
 
but your are using something that someone wrote
 
right then you know just how trivial it is to use and how powerful the effects are
thats exactly the point Proxy
 
if you had to write everything yourself, that takes a lot of knowledge and time
 
I was motivated enough by an annoyance - i found a way to sort it despite game offering me no easy way out
why would I write yourself - that's the wrong attitude
in todays world whatever you can dream of.. somebody has already done it for you and probably better than your first few attempts
 
that is true
 
1:56 PM
so taking that analogy, if i wanted to have secure comms - you bet i can find an app that'll do the job
especially the OTR apps
government is going after regular apps that no serious criminal should be using
 
i understood you wrong then, yeah that steps anyone could take
but people don't care
 
now that its in news - they'll know not to use it.. there will be something else to fill the gap - tehre's always something available
and a million developers will lend you a hand if you just asked ... you don't even have to pay them if they believe in your cause
and yes there you hit the nail on the head - people don't care.. out of ignorance generally
and there's no solution to it
by the time they'll become aware of what has happened - it's already too late
anyways - been a while since we saw you here.. how have you been :)
 
To a great extent, apathy rules the world
 
yep, usually you move when something happens to you
but people don't read beyond news headlines so
 
Raging apathy... if there is such a thing
 
2:00 PM
oh fine, i'm doing angular 2 atm so i was mostly in c# just chit chating
i hope your fine too
 
yea all well, thank you
 
angular 2? does anyone use that?
 
i feel wpf is dying bit by bit everyday .. it's certainly not going to be able to keep up with the online world
Proxy just said he does :) I believe Bradley uses it too
 
we do :P
 
Angular 4 is coming out soon or might be out already
 
2:01 PM
I'm trying to understand .NET Core MVC right now. There's this _Layout.cshtml file. I get that it's sort of a template for other views, but I have no clue how the other views relate to it. I don't see a reference anywhere.
 
do you use it because it better or because you have been told to?
 
You plug in the other views into the sections on _Layout
 
although i would have preferred react but others decided on angular
 
I must say that I'm impressed by Node.js and (I think) electron.
 
i liked react more from what i saw, lot smaller and easier to get into
although i'm a js newbie as well, besides some basic stuff i have not worked a lot with it
 
2:03 PM
@WilliamMariager its not .net core specific - it's mvc razor specific btw - you can find out a lot of info if you drop the .net core focus from it :)
 
mostly client side validation, some effects
 
I haven't used any of them, but from what I hear from others react seem to be the way to go
 
yeah it is easier to start, less bloat
 
applications like slack and vs code are awesome and made in node.js
 
but then again i played for a week with it then we went with angular
maverik, did you not said you were working with angular too?
 
2:06 PM
and multiplatform
 
and also feel laggy and take several hundreds MB of RAM
 
WPF is solid tech, so much easier to build with than web
 
yea but lack of cross platform is becoming more and more limiting for it
and people just seem to have this mindset now that desktop app is automatically legacy
 
2:25 PM
i'm off
have a nice
 
you too :) see ya
Has anybody ever looked into Browser Fingerprinting? I just discovered it (i knew there was device fingerprinting, but never knew about browser fingerprinting)
 
@milleniumbug what? vs code? laggy?
 
panopticlick.eff.org <- interesting to see how secure are you at the moment in online tracking world
the answer to getting rid of this problem appears to be disable javascript
 
I use it to run my python project. in the previous project I used PyCharm. Code is a GREAT improvement
 
2:34 PM
and as i was originally making the point: by the time you figure out the problem its too late >.<
 
I've been using NoScript for a year already
Switched to uMatrix lately
 
well problem is all the SPA stuff coming out - and JS isn't going away anytime soon
noscript blocks all scripts no?
 
Blocks everything unless whitelisted
you can whitelist on domain granularity
 
wait... does it block applications running javascript on your computer? (not browser stuff)
 
yea thought so but when you have a single app.min.js to deal with that has everything packed inside it
how do you deal with that
noscript is a browser extension
 
2:37 PM
@Markus It blocks in browser, and for the Electron apps, you can simply not install them :)
@Markus Well, just because VS Code is laggy doesn't mean others aren't laggy
In particular, all JetBrains IDEs are Java
They're laggy too
 
yea that's my biggest reason to not adopt Rider
 
I think the reason for lagginess isn't exactly the language, but bad GUI framework choice
NetBeans is Java too and doesn't feel as laggy as IntelliJ
 
NetBeans? not laggy?? Well to be fair it was more then 10 years since I run it :) but back then it definitely was!
 
Kinda related question.... what would cause VS to grow to over 1GB of memory with one app? It starts out at maybe a few hundred MBs, then just over a week of not shutting down, keeps growing
This is VS 2015
Bad extensions?
 
The answer of "you're in a balloon" type: memory leaks
 
2:41 PM
I only have R# and Codemaid
 
@Markus tbf I've tried VS Code half a year ago so it could change in the meantime too
 
I'm too hooked on VS to move to Code, though it's a nice editor
 
half a year... nae I think I've been using it about that long, and it haven't changed significantly
 
Maybe as usual this means I should get a faster PC
 
What kinda PC do you use now?
 
2:45 PM
I just ordered a Raspberry Pi last night!
Planning on putting Windows IoT on it
 
Nice
 
It's AMD Phenom II X4 965 BE with 16 GB RAM
 
Heard a lot about it but haven't used Ras Pi
 
Want to redo my Pinewood Derby controller
Specs:
 
@milleniumbug Dang. That's pretty beefy, though as devs, we need even better
 
2:46 PM
Pretty amazing for 35 bucks.
 
Wow, is that all? $35 is pocket change
 
And a 7" touchscreen is 66.
Yep, but it has an HDMI output, so you don't necessarily need the touch screen.
It's pretty feature packed.
 
@Alex what are you building that needs even better?
 
Sweet. This would be great for kids to use for learning computers
 
@Alex They have kits (CanaKit) for that
With books.
 
2:49 PM
@Alex The CPU is quite slow in comparison to the new ones, and also old, but the CPUs don't get much better
 
i'd say thats a pretty nice machine with a Phenom II X4 powering it and 16gb should normally be more than enough
 
Of course I could get a i7 or Ryzen, but daaaaaaamn these are expensive
 
Maverik, they require us to have a VM for "legacy" apps (old Photoshop). The VM takes up a good deal of RAM. Having never used a 16GB PC (currently on 8), thinking something with 32 would be sufficient
 
I actually used to have Phenom II X6 BE on my gaming rig - and it was never a bottleneck even on cpu bound games
well RAM i can agree - you can always find a use for that but the processor is pretty solid even at x4
hmm I think I still have that processor on me sitting somewhere in a box :)
 
Yeah, no issues w/ cpu
 
2:52 PM
what vm platform do you prefer?
Hyper-V? vBox? qemu? vmware?
 
Oracle VirtualBox
 
I use VirtualBox
 
It's the best of the ones I've tried
 
hmm i seem to run into issues with that thing every now and then
recent Hyper-Vs are pretty decent too
as in Windows10+ hyper-v
 
Haven't tried that yet
 
2:53 PM
especially the ones that came with container support
 
Got a VB + Win10 Ent.
 
I've also used VMWare Player, and my experiences are that VBox is easier to set up, more compatible with different guest OSes, but VMWare Player, once set up, is faster
 
Yep, same here
 
yea vbox is easier in setup for sure
 
It takes the other vm formats pretty easily, so if you create one on VMWare, it'll import it nicely
 
user7442629
3:24 PM
How can I handle the SelectedItemChanged event for a TreeView in MVVM?
 
user7442629
Is a TreeView model the best way?
 
is it the best way? only you can answer that
how can you do selection tracking - use IsSelected property on TreeViewItem and bind it to the viewmodel and track from viewmodel itself
the general idea for that would be: ViewModelCollection.SingleOrDefault(x => x.IsSelected) <-- this would then be your selected item if there is a selection otherwise you'd get a null out of this
 
user7442629
I'll try a TreeView model and see how successful and convenient that is
 
user7442629
I'll have a IsSelected bool for every item
 
Makes sense. That way you can bind the node.
 
3:58 PM
btw Aleks, you need to do this binding via ItemContainerStyle (or use implicit style that targets TreeViewItem within TreeView's scope - i normally do it via TreeView.Resources in implicit mode)
 
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