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10:01 PM
@NETscape I think of comms as a service, but that would be part of a "domain"
Still not entirely sure of all the distinctions you are referring to :(
 
@BradleyDotNET msbuild is an application, right?
as well as Visual Studio
as well as all the other .exes Visual Studio uses
all these applications have their own domains
visual studio doesn't care about msbuild domain, does it?
at least not its entirety...
 
Sure, VS just uses MSBuild
 
right, so i'm trying to make a distinction between what my application should be using and what my application should be implementing is a way I guess you could put it
 
ok
So I take it you have multiple applications?
 
well, not physically/technically. For instance, file parsing... I could write a file parsing application that's command line only.
but the files only give me a subset of the information i need in order to make that information in the file useful
so say you have file named `variables.txt` that looks like:

3, 5, 10
5, 6, 12
13, 20, 54
1, 100, 34
okay so then I parse that into the object

public class EquationVariable
{
    public int X { get; private set; }
    public int Y { get; private set; }
    public int Z { get; private set; }
}
where then I would have List<EquationVariable> Variables inside my VariableFile object
but still there is basically nothing useful at this point.
after I have my VariableFile, I would then pass that to something else, which uses all that information
say that something else is a PolynomialWorksheet
then I have a WorksheetViewModel which I display in my application and it allows users to edit the worksheet
where I'm not seeing where to make a clear separation is between PolynomialWorksheet and EquationVariable I guess.
probably because i know the entire domain
 
10:27 PM
Sounds like PolynomialWorksheet would just contain a collection of EquationVariable
 
right
 
One is a class that aggregates different types of data, one is just that data
 
but the only thing that uses it is my application
 
ok... but that makes you think they would be the same class?
 
so if i had a parser library would that parse everything and provide PolynomialWorkseet, or would my application ask the parser library for all of its EquationVariable, and then create a PolynomialWorksheet
 
10:32 PM
If the file only has the EquationVariable items, I would have it ask the parser and create the subsequent worksheet
Its possible that you could have a PolynomialWorksheetParser that utilized an EquationVariableParser
If they are in a combined file
 
@BradleyDotNET okay, so now lets say I have a EquationVariableParser in a class library, and now PolynomialWorksheet is in my application. After a worksheet is created, a user can edit it, and then save it.
 
ok
Just for the record, in this theoretical example, I would just use one of the .NET Serializers :)
 
saving it would give you a file like:

Name: Me
Date: 4/1/15 12:00:00
3, 5, 10
1, 7, 12
1, 28, 54
1, 100, 34
Last Changed: 4/1/15 12:01:00
 
alright
 
so do you create a EquationVariableWriter which takes a collection of equ. variable and a stream, to write the middle part?
 
10:42 PM
I would think so
or even just writes one, and pass them one at a time
either way works
 
where can I go for advice on Microsoft Azure topics? I dont see any rooms dedicated to cloud computing and such
 
could step up this complexity now by saying, lets say the EquationVariableParser is an .exe, I ask it for all the variables, it gives them to me, i create polynomialworksheet, and allow students to edit. then then edits are sent back to the .exe, telling it to save the changes to that file, then the .exe responds back to me and may have possibly changed some of the values I thought I saved (basically it did a range check and prevented a range from being exceeded)
@erotavlas maybe the C# room
 
ok will try there thanks
 
@BradleyDotNET so at that point there needs to be communication between the two applications, mine and the parser app/service.
 
@erotavlas If its too noisy, you can ask here, I'm doing an Azure project right now as it happens.
There are more people that could potentially help you there though
 
10:47 PM
so the communication method/protocol exists at the service layer? in the model? meh?
 
@NETscape Well, services are really part of the model. You would certainly have a dedicated class that handled those comms for you though.
 
@BradleyDotNET ok great, well I want to move my windows phone code to Azure, I have an idea what I need to do but not 100%
 
Err.... do you know what Azure does?
Because that statement didn't make a lot of sense
 
because if you think about it, you have the EquationVariableParser (exe) and that can be modeled, and it does communicate... but its a slave... so do you model the communication link in the EquationVariableParser model?
 
Assuming you started with a standard windows phone app
@NETscape no, the parser shouldn't care what is invoking it
Whether thats another parser, a comms provider, or something else
 
10:50 PM
@BradleyDotNET for instance my phone app gets HTTP pages parses data every 15 minutes, then does a calculation based on the geographic location of the user. What I want to do with mobile services...uh oh hold on phone call
 
@BradleyDotNET so PolynomialWorksheet doesn't talk to EquationVariableParser... it would be more like, ComLink.SendEquationVariables(polyWorksheet, equVariableParser); ?
 
@NETscape based on your variable names, I'm not sure why you would send the parser parameter
since in theory the parser exists in the other application
 
but i need to send the environment variables back to the other application... so yeah, maybe my variable names aren't really lining up >.<
 
And really, I would think it would be more like this:
string serializedData = ComLink.SerializeEquationVariables(equVars);
But it depends on how the other application is designed to act
if its a purpose built parser, it probably shouldn't be doing stuff with files
plus serializing a Stream object for IPC doesn't sound like fun.
I'm assuming this is a contrived example, but your real-life one may have similar concerns
 
well mainly my issue is defining my domain i guess
my application: saves, edits, prints. it also communicates real-time. it also has concepts of multiple kinds of projects, and one main project which is composed of smaller projects.
it's supposed to be like an all in one deal, but i know that there can be separations which will help with readability and maintainability of the code, its just a matter of where do i make those separations
 
11:00 PM
@BradleyDotNET ok back, so moving most of my logic to Azure mobile services should be doable, I need a dtabase and some stored procedure to calculate something based on geolocation of user and send push notification when they get close to certain something or other ....
 
and all these projects need to be saved, but in a different structure than their model, because i only need file paths/names, which will open the files when the project is loaded. and these project structures are represented visually as a treeview but you wouldn't be able to tell the project model has anything to do with the structure you see in the tree view.
for instance, i could open one file, and it would create 10 children below the root node in the treeview, and every child node would have a child node. but the "model" of the project would just be:

<Project>
    <SpecialFile Location="C:\Users\me\Desktop\file.extension" />
</Project>
 
@erotavlas Ok, that sounds reasonable
 
so when I open the project--create a Project model, I might have a file name, but now it needs to get parsed into a bunch of other things, and I don't think that makes sense.
 
I think having "nested" parsers makes sense
Your ProjectParser would use a SpecialFile parser when it encountered one of those tags. That parser would return data the project model understood, or at least could contain so a data template later down the line can display it.
 
@BradleyDotNET the first thing I need to do is grab data from 2 HTTP sources, parse some values and store these in the sql database. But the free tier price for Scheduler only allows jobs to run every hour. This might be ok for one of the pages whose data updates every hour, but the other page updates its data every 15 minutes. Then what makes matters worse is I have no clue how the pricing works for the scheduler, it look s expensive but its based on units and I have no idea what they mean
 
11:12 PM
I believe a "unit" is a mobile service instance
You also may be able to just spin off a thread to do your work instead of using the scheduled jobs feature
 
@BradleyDotNET how do you do that?
@BradleyDotNET well not how, but what feature in Azure do I use to run this thread?
 
Your service should be able to just start a timer or something
Something I need to look into as well, but I bet you can do it.
or start a thread and have it sleep most of the time
I have little doubt the scheduled jobs feature is a better approach
but as you say, the cost could be an issue
 
@BradleyDotNET hmm ok I think I cam across a question on here about something similar. there was some concern about keeping the task alive but I'll do some more research into it.
 
Yeah, thats the trick
 
@BradleyDotNET i think I found it, he says "Yet another alternative would be to write your own scheduler and hosting that solution in Azure Websites. I would recommend using Quartz.net scheduling library. It's free, open source and used by many folks"
9
Q: Azure Web Sites - scheduled tasks

havardhuI am developing a web site which I plan to host on Windows Azure. The site will need to run some daily/weekly scheduled jobs, synchronizing to various 3rd party data sources, sending user notifications, etc. It should also be able to run on-demand async tasks such as sending emails to users etc. ...

The problem with some of these questions is they are several years old now, Azure is changing so fast
 
11:24 PM
True
but I think that question is a really good starting point for making your decision
It pretty much matches my (admittedly limited) understanding
 
thanks
@BradleyDotNET I found something called WebJobs as an alternative to the Scheduler, I might investigate this first. This is a good question with more information stackoverflow.com/questions/22462765/azure-webjobs-vs-scheduler
 
I saw that as well, but I believe its associated with the web apps functionality
which means you have to split up a bunch of your functionality :(
 
11:42 PM
you mean split it up across different services? Like run some tasks here, other scripts there?
@BradleyDotNET gotta go, thanks for chatting :)
 
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