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4:07 PM
o/
I got nr 30 !
Oh man :)
 
31 for me
 
Dojo 1.6 :)
 
8
A: Eeeek! How does this question have 28 (and growing!) close votes without being closed?

WillPfft. You guys are wimps. It takes a MAN to close this question.

 
4:29 PM
IE9 document.createElement is broken.
Why?
 
@Raynos No way
What/How?
 
Dont know
Cant read post
Oh I see what it is
IE8 -> document.createElement("<div>"). IE9 -> document.createElement("div")
 
@Raynos I don't remember using angled brackets for createElement anywhere
 
Hmm maybe im wrong. Read the link :o
Either seems to work. Bah.
In terms of JavaScript development and employability do I need to know more then one library/framework if so which?
 
4:46 PM
jQuery is probably a must these days
Others, not sure
 
@Raynos fwiw no hiring manager in my medium sized company knows what a JS framework is.
actually I think there's one, and he wouldn't care.
 
@Nathan I just though if I want to join a company (medium - large) to specifically work on javascript application development. Do I have to have knowledge in something other then jQuery or are companies willing to train that.
If I knew sencha / dojo for example would I become more employable?
 
I'm in I/T in healthcare so it's totally different than if you're looking for a job like Ivo's.
 
one side of me thinks all frameworks are the same, if you know one you can easily learn the others. The other side makes me think that a company isn't willing to hire someone on their large dojo project without them knowing dojo.
I'm more targetting for jobs like @IvoWetzel
He got in because hes made solid gold win.
 
But I think "which framework" is usually too specific to make a difference in most programmer hiring...
 
4:51 PM
I guess so. Just wondering what are the common frameworks i can learn to boost employability
Dojo & Sencha come to mind
 
I've seen ExtJS mentioned...
 
ExtJS has been renamed to sencha
 
though I don't like how GUIish it is
oh I see
 
user1385191
Prototype and Dojo seem to come up the most
 
thats what sencha does best
@MattMcDonald prototype is more popular then jquery ? or are we ignoring jquery in terms of popularity because its obvouisly the winner
 
4:53 PM
I kind of thought Prototype is aging and not really progressing
 
user1385191
that goes without saying, right?
 
user1385191
;)
 
Fair enough.
Prototype does seem to be aging.
But prototype 2.0 was realised recently.
I dont know how popular mootools is
 
what about mootools? It also appears kind of aging.
at least they haven't been releasing as often as jQuery and there doesn't seem to be as much buzz.
 
user1385191
I'd avoid YUI because most tests I see with it have it bringing up the rear
 
user1385191
4:55 PM
I have no idea how Crockford thinks it's any good.
 
I forgot YUI3
YUI3 & Dojo & Sencha then
I find that prototype/mootools/jquery all cover the DOM manipulation framework
where as YUI3 & Dojo & Sencha have a lot more to it. A lot more architecture
Maybe I should just sit down and read the source of all them
 
user1385191
yep
 
user1385191
Dojo I think has some bad parts to it
 
Have any of you read substantial parts of library source? (>50%)
 
user1385191
wow, dojo uses userAgent a lot
 
user1385191
4:59 PM
looks like they got rid of the window.dojo property though
 
@MattMcDonald I see 3 reference to .userAgent :)
Theres is still a global dojo right?
 
user1385191
not sure, couldn't find it
 
Think there is.
 
user1385191
here it is
 
user1385191
/*=====
dojo.global = {
	//	summary:
	//		Alias for the global scope
	//		(e.g. the window object in a browser).
	//	description:
	//		Refer to 'dojo.global' rather than referring to window to ensure your
	//		code runs correctly in contexts other than web browsers (e.g. Rhino on a server).
}
=====*/
 
5:03 PM
_2 += "var " + _7[0] + " = {}; " + _7[1] + " = " + _7[0] + ";" + _7[1] + "._scopeName = '" + _7[1] + "';";
eval(_2 + "dojo._scopeArgs = [" + _4 + "];");
Right at the top
 
@Raynos I'd also suggest a general-purpose non-JS scripting language like Python or Perl would be a boon for hirability.
 
user1385191
yeah, definitely go for python
 
@Nathan I know python ( and C, java, C#)
 
Good then. Ruby would also be OK I think.
 
user1385191
with(d.version){
				return major + "." + minor + "." + patch + flag + " (" + revision + ")";	// String
			}
 
user1385191
5:04 PM
barf
 
Maybe should learn ruby
@MattMcDonald you do realise what your reading is compiled js right? Probably is anyway. I was reading the compiled js and its ugly as hell
 
user1385191
I'm reading the uncompressed source
 
Ah ok :)
 
user1385191
Why they're using with() twice is beyond me
 
user1385191
yuck, there's a ton of browser sniffing too
 
5:06 PM
dont know.
Tbh the dojo code is hard to read
the jquery code is a lot easier to read.
More github & less svn please.
 
user1385191
 
user1385191
they really shouldn't be borrowing UA sniffing code from Apple. Their HTML 5 demo sniffing was a disaster.
 
:) Ok the dojo code is quite unfriendly
34
A: Is javascript guaranteed to be single-threaded?

bobinceThat's a good question. I'd love to say “yes”. I can't. JavaScript is usually considered to have a single thread of execution visible to scripts(*), so that when your inline script, event listener or timeout is entered, you remain completely in control until you return from the end of your block...

WHY ;_; . Why doesn't the event loop work asynchronously you piece of ****
 
user1385191
ha, bobince is awesome
 
5:16 PM
Yes he is.
 
@Loktar and @MylesGray I'll have to check out that CSS3 book next.
 
What CSS3 / HTML5 books are you guys talking abtou?
Also uki.js seems interesting as a UI / micro-MVC tool
 
Oh good god:
0
A: CSS - How to set an input field to use 100% of available width in a TD, minus X number of pixels?

maniatori know it isnt tagged, but you might be able to use javascript/jquery to manipulate the DOM elements on your page (which it seems that is what you want to do) so to manipulate in jquery: $('td input').width($(this).parent().width() - 32)

Use JQuery to set the width of ONE element
and the guy hasnt even tagged it with JS let along jQ
 
@MylesGray meh. You answered with javascript. That cocky comment is only valid if you provide a html/css solution
 
@Raynos at least i didnt include a lib
and there is NO valid CSS solution to that
seen it 50/60 times
 
5:30 PM
ok.
I prefer including jquery then messing with the DOM.
The dom. Ew
 
@Raynos but the bloat isnt necessary for one manipulation
the DOm isnt THAT bad
 
true.
his problem is that hes not doing enough jquery :D
do more jquery so its worth loading jquery
 
user1385191
I think the more heinous crime is he used the phrase "greatly appreciated".
 
It's always worth loading jQuery. If it's not you just need to use more jQuery.
6
 
@MylesGray box-sizing?
Ah, no, that won't work either
 
5:32 PM
@YiJiang nah that wont work
 
user1385191
I tossed a js tag on just in case
 
calc would solve it, but support is around nil
(Well, Firefox 4 has support, but no other browser)
 
@YiJiang that will be a GLORIOUS day for CSS
wont happen till FF6/7 at least Chrome 12/13 and IE20080
 
What's calc ?
 
5:34 PM
No! @MylesGray you can't use jsperf to tell me how much faster your solution is. That's not fair
 
Oh but it is ;)
 
is it safe in here?
 
@YiJiang any input on libraries/frameworks that I should learn for increase employability?
@CRoss no. Who are you hiding from?
 
good I'll have to remember that ...
 
5:36 PM
@Raynos No, not really
 
@Raynos the young people
 
@CRoss get off ma lawn!
 
In general for front end web development what tools/technologies are worth learning?
 
@CRoss uh... there's a majority of young people around here unfortunately
 
I guess I should learn php :(
 
user1385191
5:37 PM
@MylesGray Ok, you just know that isn't fair. jQ does a ton of work behind the scenes to normalize width/height across many browsers.
 
@Nathan nvm.
 
well yeah but still, its not like the pure JS solution is unstable across multiple browsers
 
@Raynos why would you do that?
 
@CRoss employability. As a web developer I should know asp.net and php/RoR
I guess I can learn Ruby on rails instead. Should be less painful then php.
 
user1385191
be aware that RoR ships with Prototype
 
user1385191
5:40 PM
(by my recollection)
 
I would suggest just about anything besides php. RoR, Grails, JSP/Servlets, etc
@MattMcDonald easy to pull that out and replace with jQuery, I did it with Grails.
 
the symfony framework makes PHP not so bad.
 
@Nathan I gave up on PHP when I saw the half OO model they put it in
 
PHP and JS are both horribly organically evolved languages instead of well-designed from the top-down like say, C# or Java. But I think they're are also more fun.
 
fun is in the eye of the beholder
 
5:44 PM
Quirky? :-P
 
user1385191
I'd like PHP more if there wasn't 3-10,000 functions for every situation.
 
indeed
 
That's why I like the idea of "subsetting" languages - like Crockford did for JavaScript with The Good Parts
They're both perfectly workable languages, as long as you don't get bogged down in all the crap.
 
Also I quickly tire of typecasting everything in "good" languages. BORING.
 
lol
 
5:47 PM
@Nathan the term is "strictly typed" and you're doing it wrong ;-)
@RyanKinal You still can't convince me to use PHP for a production application
toys? sure
 
Well, sure. It does have some scaling issues.
 
@CRoss so you use PHP for "toys"... because it's more fun?
 
@Nathan no, I use Grails for toys, because it's more fun
 
dammit Jeff got me:
 
I use JavaScript for toys because it's more fun...
 
5:50 PM
lol
 
@MylesGray Ahahahahaha :P
 
@MylesGray meta?
 
@YiJiang almost made it a full week in front
hepulled away today :P
@CRoss yep
 
You're still in front of Grace and Bill, that's no small feat
 
and PollyAnna
or Adam Davis as he is known as now
 
5:53 PM
@CRoss Indeed, must been a slow support week, with the eeeks and all
 
@MylesGray I speak not his name ;-)
 
I might entitle all my questions Eeeek....
 
@CRoss what do you recommend for the server?
 
@Raynos for paying work? ASP.NET or Java (Spring or Struts, probably Spring)
 
user1385191
ASP.NET is super popular among enterprise work, especially the government here.
 
6:01 PM
@CRoss are you suggesting commercial companies dont use RoR or php ?
I already know ASP.NET and it is indeed popular
 
RoR too, Grails maybe
 
Im wondering what other serverside language/framework I should know for increased employability in the web dev sector
 
I know companies use PHP, I've seen the ads, but I wouldn't do it
but my bias is decidedly "Enterprise"
 
i see
but enterprise is bad :P
use node.js
 
4 votes till HTML bronze :D
 
6:05 PM
@Raynos It pays the bills
 
@CRoss I know. I rather work for a non-enterprise company
 
nothing wrong with that. just a different set of problems
 
Well it's not that. I just seem to prefer dynamic languages these days. weakly typed functional languages are great :)
I think my actual problem is working on an ASP.NET 2.0 rather then 4.0 project
 
Ugh. I work on ASP.NET 2.0 on a daily basis.
 
Anyone want my last SO Careers invite?
@Raynos You are looking for a job might be good to have?
 
6:14 PM
Careers requires an invite?
If that's the case, I already got one, but I thought it was more of an automated "Hey, look what we built" sort of thing
 
@RyanKinal used to be like that
this way it keeps the serfs out :P
 
@MylesGray go for it :D
 
So, it used to be more open than it is? That's a different way of doing things.
 
@Raynos full name plus email to myles [atttttttt-nospam] mutant-tractor [dotcom]
 
lol
 
6:20 PM
>.>
sigh
but yeah that one :P
 
@Raynos @MylesGray Kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?
 
@RyanKinal have you met @Raynos ? :P
 
Could not resist trolling.
 
@MylesGray Not really. I'm starting to understand, though
@Raynos That was a heck of a troll
 
Oh psh. The spam bots arent going to pick it up here
 
6:21 PM
meh ill just run everything through a spam filter :P
 
Oh two minutes passed :D
 
2minutes?
 
1 message moved to bin
 
oh edittt
right
 
Yeah I cant edit it anymore
 
6:23 PM
So you goto THAT uni
:P
sent by the way
 
:)
Is there a time limit or can I use it later?
 
i think its up to 48hours?
i know you can confirm it then publish later
@Raynos saw this person on FB i thought was you then saw this: About [censored]- No. I was like yeah... thats him :P
 
y'all go to the same uni?
 
@CRoss no no, I just didnt know what uni he went to his email told me that
 
... Stop making fun of me :(
 
6:33 PM
@Raynos awh come now, tis all good fun :D
 
Give me an example of something that should be done in raw JS rather than through jQuery (assuming that jQuery wasn't loaded on the page already)
 
@ircmaxell form validation
 
Something more trivial
 
@ircmaxell this:
1
A: How to set an input field to use 100% of available width in a TD, minus X number of pixels?

maniatori know it isnt tagged, but you might be able to use javascript/jquery to manipulate the DOM elements on your page (which it seems that is what you want to do) so to manipulate in jquery: $('td input').width($(this).parent().width() - 32)

 
even more trivial.
 
6:35 PM
form validation is trivial...
 
as @YiJiang sai the CSS attribute that FF4 implemented (calc) would do this but that is most definatly better doing in pure JS
@ircmaxell by trivial we talking 2+2?
 
Something like $().add(1, 2);, but that's actually be done...
 
how about displaying the current year in a copyright notice?
> (c) 2011 FooCorp, Inc.
 
yeah that would be a good example
 
that's not bad
 
6:37 PM
I've seen a "special offer expires <todaysDate>" done in javascript
 
I'm looking for something that's so straight forward that nobody in the right mind would say it's appropriate
 
it was kind of insulting
 
... and I believe document.write() is actually the right way to do that, is it not?
 
@Nathan no. DOM manipulation please
 
you're going to manipulate the DOM for that?
 
6:37 PM
@Nathan shouldnt you always?
 
Meh.
 
Hrm...
there has to be a better example.
I'm trying to show why common sense is necessary in development...
 
window.onunload = "alert('Don't leave! ;______________;');"
 
If not jQuery, what about something that's simple that everyone knows how to do, yet some still screw up because of a lack of common sense?
 
I bet document.write( (new Date).getFullYear() ) works in every browser since like 1995, and it doesn't matter if the DOM's not ready or whatever...
 
6:41 PM
@Nathan true. But I just really hate document.write :P
 
@ircmaxell see the DailyWTF for lack of common sense...
 
besides I insist you use document.open() & document.close() too
 
I know, but I want to descibe it in a sentance rather than a page
 
@ircmaxell Setting the hash for deep linking would be a great example
 
hmm
 
6:45 PM
window.location.hash = 'string';
 
@ircmaxell "Never bet against a Sicilian with death on the line!"
 
lol
 
@ircmaxell Looping over an array is another example of over-use of jQuery - $(arr).each(...) vs. a for loop
 
hrm...
actually, that's not bad...
 
Yep
thats a good one
If you got an Array use a for loop
 
7:00 PM
OH MAH GOD!
0
Q: CSS/HTML: What is the "right" way to create this effect?

JoshuaDI'm working on a website for a small law office. There's a menu bar across the top that I want to be equi-spaced with a | between each item: Link. (The white bar just below the title banner) This looks exactly right, but I'm using tables to accomplish it. Is there a "more correct" method for d...

IM GONNA GO KILLING
Ahhh... my Jihad on tables is almost complete
0
A: CSS/HTML: What is the "right" way to create this effect?

Myles GrayOkay, Tables for layout is wrong, tables for MENUS is just perverse... Please please please read this You should be doing this: HTML: <ul> <li>Item1 |</li> <li>Item2 |</li> <li>Item3</li> </ul> CSS: .ul li { float:left; ma...

 
hallo, @IvoWetzel!
 
@Nyuszika7H is getting back in tomorrow apparently :)
 
Any Sencha Touch experts in?
 
@Nathan Hi there :)
 
@BenM sorry I've only dabbled with jQuery Mobile.
 
7:12 PM
@Nathan no problem :) jQuery Mobile seems very attractive right now. Sencha Touch's API is quite lacking in places.
 
@IvoWetzel by the by, @Nyuszika7H says your new av is cool (hes on skype)
 
@BenM I also recently saw some really good reference info for Safari on iOS that made me think doing things manually wouldn't be so hard.
(whoops, there I go talking to myself again...)
 
@Nathan Thanks, that looks quite interesting. I might look into that. I would certainly like to look into it.
 
Ah, Fridays. The day where nothing really gets done
 
lol
 
7:21 PM
:)
Fridays are good
 
It's already weekend, just went I start to get productive
 
7:34 PM
Here's the post I was working on: blog.ircmaxell.com/2011/03/…
 
7:45 PM
" Its My Money & I Need It Now" (youtube.com/watch?v=HX0fIi3H-es)
0
Q: list user who have root (administrative) privilege

Saurabh01I want to know the list of all users who have root (administrative) privilege in Oracle. I would like it in a script or C++ application. Script is preferred.

 
lol
 
So, I have a question for 'yall
How much should I charge to make a website. :P
 
@Raynos A job like mine hm... we're still looking for JS devs :P
 
@Shaz Closed - Subjective and Argumentitive
I'll tell you what I quote people at for a website if you want. But I don't know what to tell you to charge...
 
I understand, but it will be my first time charging somebody, as I've only made one other public website, and that was during high school
I just quickly looked it up and one site is saying $75/hour
That seems a little much to me?
I'm using php and html/css/javascript
 
7:55 PM
It really depends on the scope of the project.
 
And your experience
and your abilities
 
I once had a guy offer to give me $50 to build him a website like youtube...
 
and your competition
 
@jon3laze haha
 
@jon3laze Lol
 
7:57 PM
But hey, he can't spend a lot of money for the site when he has to put all of it into the servers
 
I usually charge upwards of $800 per hour ($850 per hour is my standard freelance rate). Granted, it's that much because I hate doing it, but if someone's willing to pay it I'll gladly do the work for them... :-D
 
@jon3laze Well, to be honest, I'm only using php (atm) for it's include() function, instead of using frames or iframes
It's just a simple website
What I'm doing is redesigning the whole thing from ground up, the original can be found at rbpt.com
 
It's in dire need of a redesign. :P
 

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