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6:00 PM
@ssube not many, but people aspire to be among the people who don't write DB skins and solve interesting problems, at least most people in this room are smart - they should be solving interesting use cases (most of them indeed do).
@ssube often, yes. I feel like I need to make a clarification.
 
@Jhawins people learn different, people are motivated differently, people aspire to know different things, people see value in things others do not. good thing subjectivity exists amirite?
 
@AwalGarg can you write an HTTP server from scratch?
 
I'm not going to say school is a total scam (US schools are pretty shit, though), but I will say a degree is not something you even vaguely need to be a good engineer doing interesting things.
 
People with a degree from a good college aren't better than people who don't have one, having a degree doesn't make you smarter or a better person, in fact, most people with degrees who are fresh off college are bad bad programmers.
@ssube never argued differently.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum define scratch
 
6:02 PM
@KendallFrey let's start with... over tcp
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum From "scratch"? In PHP/Python, sure. A basic one atleast. If you think writing something in a high level language like PHP/Python is "scratch".
 
user1596138
@rlemon lol yeah pretty much
 
user2620028
@jhawins you drive a truck
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum i was worried you were gonna say machine code in MBR
 
@AwalGarg how are you planning on writing an HTTP server in PHP?
 
6:02 PM
I'm just saying that degree opens a lot of doors for you.
 
@ssube google it :P
 
user1596138
When I go get a degree I won't waste my time on CS/CE
 
@ssube there's a guy in the PHP room who did that :)
 
@AwalGarg my point was PHP is hosted by a server
 
@Jhawins it's not a time waste...
 
6:03 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum ugh, really?
 
@ssube no
 
the only thing in all of this that actually matters is that we all keep learning. our industry is too fast paced to stop. you stop learning and you are dead. can everyone zip back up now?
2
 
Whatever anyone's stance on higher ed is here, I still love you like a bro. Even if you're wrong.
 
@ssube yes, he deals with like 3000 requests per second, faster than express.
 
shake your dicks, guys
 
6:03 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum that's not surprising, express is designed to be slow
 
Why the heck do you guys think this is a pissing contest.
 
but not too hard or you might trigger an emission
 
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum It is to me. Because I don't want this.
 
Who in the hell thinks PHP is "hosted by a server"??
 
user2620028
@kendall btw more than 3 times is playing with it
 
6:03 PM
shake it like a Polaroid picture
 
@Jhawins what's "this"?
 
"middleware" is just a nice way of saying "virtual calls to a runtime-resolved data type"
 
@HatterisMad depends on that index thingy
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum depends on the scope
 
@AwalGarg most of it is
PHP isn't exactly a popular replacement for bash
 
6:04 PM
You don't want to know how things work at a fundamental level? If you don't that's ok, it's really unimportant for most things but it's just really interesting.
 
user2620028
@kendall what index thingy haha
 
A CS degree is really interesting.
 
from the kickstarter
 
user1596138
Everything we have discussed. You guys so quickly turned me talking about my aspirations in life into me talking about your situations with your CS degrees/lack of
 
@ssube middleware is fine, we have a JIT and stuff.
 
user2620028
6:04 PM
@kendall yeah i lost you. sorry lol
 
@ssube not a good argument :P
 
I actually sort of want to go to a local uni and get a CS degree, now that I have almost 5 years of actual programming done.
 
user1596138
Aybody notice Jhawins said he was looking at something totally unrelated?!
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum JIT can't speed up v calls
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum There are times when I wish I got a comp sci degree, but I see general ed courses as a complete and utter waste of my time and energy, so it prevents me from doing what I want to accomplish
 
6:05 PM
node 10.n sucks.
Y U NO PROMISE?!
bastards.
 
@ssube sure it can, it can convert them from v-calls to static calls and bail out on failure.
 
@AwalGarg how much PHP have you seen that isn't running in an Apache?
 
@rlemon should be using bluebird anyway.
 
user1596138
Maybe I'll work with renewable energy
 
user1596138
Maybe I'll work at fucking SpaceX or something in similar industry
 
user2620028
6:06 PM
@ssube i ran php inside of iis
 
user1596138
Tesla
 
I want to work at SpaceX
 
@Jhawins a CS degree opens a lot of doors for you, that's all I'm saying.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum probably. but I'm still going to bitch
 
@Jhawins meh, space sounds boring. There's literally nothing to do there.
 
6:06 PM
I want to work in space
 
@ssube I didn't really count the LoCs :/ but lots of it.
 
@ssube float
among others
 
@AwalGarg really? [citation-needed]
 
user1596138
So does a mechanical engineering degree, and guess who does more real life shit.
 
also @ssube Most of the PHP runs synchronously, doesn't mean PHP can't do async stuff.
 
user1596138
6:06 PM
I imagine there is more math as well, because ya know, physics.
 
In 20 years, none of us will be coding JavaScript anyway, but DFS and BFS would still be how we traverse graphs and DFT would likely still be how we multiply numbers and 3-Sat would still be how we prove things are hard to do (unless someone proves P=NP).
 
physics is like a cheez doodle
 
@Jhawins calculating impedance, pretty much it :D
 
@KendallFrey yeah, but what happens when you smoke too much spaceweed and want to get space tacos?
 
/s
 
6:07 PM
you can't, because space is shitty
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'm already getting sick of javascript, and it makes me sad :(
 
People talking about PHP servers: Go to the PHP room and ping Daniel.
 
user1596138
@rlemon That's electronics engineering
 
@ssube all my php code runs on nginx, I have used php-gtk to write desktop guis, I have written CLI scripts in PHP...
 
user1596138
Electrical? Whatever
 
6:08 PM
.
 
user1596138
Beat you dipSyrup
 
still fucked it up
 
good thing trucks are mechanical
 
user1596138
I'll go tap fucking volcanic thermal energy and change the world.
 
yea, someone move to Canada and be my new mechanic.
mine tried to rip me off $500
 
user1596138
6:09 PM
Geothermal your asses
 
user1596138
Yeah tbh I jus wanna do R&D for trucks and the like. Our current axle designs are pathetic
 
user1596138
Along with many many other aspects... But nobody wants to be the one to put a foot forward lol
 
in other news, I'm really enjoying being able to work programatically with google music
this is going to be so much fun
 
user2620028
@jhawins no one wants to be the one to cut into their profit margins
 
Alternative energy pls, like turning water into diesel fuel
 
user2620028
6:11 PM
err.... you mean turning water into hydrogen to power engines?
 
So, anecdote time: I was mentoring at a hackathon yesterday, tried to teach someone callbacks -she couldn't get it for like 20 minutes ("why isn't the function returning anything?"), explained promises instead - she got it in like 2 minutes and complained I didn't start with it.
 
my dream job: doing nothing but proof of concepts all day
 
....why didn't you start with it?
 
user1596138
@BenjaminGruenbaum didn't you do a talk on something you didn't even understand last week :/ I was thinking about that last night
 
6:12 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum I suppose if I had to forget how to program, promises do make more sense
 
@rlemon lots of companies would actually let you do that :)
 
Why should a function return anything?
 
@Jhawins that's on Sunday, and I still have no idea what really happens there, but I'm learning.
 
user1596138
@NickDugger Audi just did that. Too late
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum but I also enjoy my position here because of all of the free reign R&D I get to do
 
6:12 PM
@Jhawins I linked to the article
 
@rlemon sure, I'm just saying doing PoCs all day is within reach
 
user1596138
Oh nice :P
 
user2620028
@nick i couldn't follow link.... banned in Thailand lol
 
user1596138
Chemistry is cool too.
 
@Jhawins I changed it a little (added a picture of my dog)
 
6:13 PM
@HatterisMad just google Audi water diesel, or whatever
 
user1596138
my mom was a R&D chemist. Some of you have taken drugs that she helped create at Lily's
 
user1596138
I always thought that could be cool.
 
Well, gonna watch some TV now, I'm sorry if I came off as snobby but I do honestly stand behind everything I said. Cheers.
!!afk tv
 
I have nothing left to do and Ops is out for the day, so I think it's time for a smoke and a beer and then helping the ladyfriend move stuff later.
 
user1596138
@HatterisMad you see those Atomic axles? I want to build a crazy jeep now lol
 
user1596138
 
user1596138
i.stack.imgur.com/9lyPJ.jpg // kinda like a IFS setup except no flex on the arms
 
I prefer wooden axles
 
user1596138
Wooden axle are nice
 
user1596138
Until the bearer of said wood goes soft
 
user2620028
@jhawins wait i don't get it..... what are the benefit of these..... just protected better than a normal independent?
 
user1596138
6:22 PM
@HatterisMad Umm do you realize how much more clearance there is in the center? Also, think of the physics of say laying a piece of wood straight across a gap, now put weight in the center wood. Not picture fashioning the wood into a triangle and putting weight in the center.
 
clearance is enough reason to sell me
 
user2620028
@jhawins forgot you cared about clearance lmao
 
user1596138
Also picture the amount of flex from having that pivot point lol
 
user1596138
@HatterisMad the flexxxxx
 
user2620028
@jhawins what are they running for bearings in that thing...... cause they are going to have constant stress
 
user1596138
6:25 PM
The only thing that does the same thing is portal axles, but those aren't actually useful unless you want that extra reduction in gearing
 
Guys, I think I might need an intervention. Java 8's functional programming support is making me actually want to program in Java again...
 
HAHAHAHA
 
use Haskell
 
Have you seen what you need to do in order to use "lambdas"? Have you seen what sorry excuse they have for closures?
Don't let them fool you
 
6:26 PM
#python
 
user1596138
@HatterisMad It's just like my IFS setup except with a casing around the axle and the whole axle moves instead of letting the axles do the flexing. And it has 35 spline axles... I don't see wheel bearings taking any added stress with that design
 
Wait, I'll just go read Spring Framework documentation for a bit, and it'll pass.
@Zirak Are you familiar with Java 8 support? It's no longer the old "create an instance of an anonymous class with a run method" pattern.
 
I really like C#, and it keeps improving, especially with .NET going open source. I really like Go too, but It's not widely used :(
 
@Retsam You just need to declare that class
 
user2620028
@jhawins i would prefer to lower center of weight instead of raise it :P
 
user1596138
6:29 PM
Whoa wtf Avengers comes out today?
 
user1596138
I watched it yesterday at like 6pm
 
user2620028
I just saw a commercial on a local tv station saying that they were going to be airing the mayweather pacquiao fight for free lol
 
@Jhawins It's the "midnight" release with massive air quotes around midnight.
 
user1596138
They had a showing at 3pm, 6pm, 3D at 7pm etc
 
Midnight used to mean something, back when Bush was in office. Thanks, Obama
 
6:30 PM
@Retsam To have a "functional interface", you must accept an interface which has one function with a suitable type signature.
 
... ?
 
No closures in java 8
 
It's better than creating an anonymous class, yes. It's still batshit cray cray. C# has been doing better for years now.
 
How does "functional" imply "one function"?
 
!!should I learn java?
 
6:31 PM
@AwalGarg All signs point to HELL no
 
@Retsam Oh yeah, let's not forget about type idiocy, so you must likely have to down/up cast everywhere because generics aren't a thing
(they are, but c'mon, they're not)
 
@Zirak I'm not really following what you mean, but you can do stuff like "intArray.stream().filter((i) -> i > 5)" in Java 8, and that's the actual Java code, not IDE short hand.
 
Iunno, I may be a Java noob but making applications has been pretty smooth here.
Spring makes it easy
 
@Retsam And let's say you want to create your own filter. What'll be the signature?
 
6:33 PM
@SterlingArcher because you came from CF
 
I don't like how you have to basically make a class for each of an ORM table/fields but the functionality behind it is awesome
 
user1596138
@Loktar internet at my new house is $14 less than here and 10X as fast :)
 
when you're comparing a turd to a less smelly turd of course you'll want the less smelly one
 
@Zirak Predicate<ThingToFilter>?
 
@SterlingArcher You're still a Java noob
 
6:33 PM
haha nice
yeah its pretty decent out here
 
@rlemon that's true... I just did my first python app (not script) and it was so easy
 
user1596138
Ooh if I keep paying the same price I do now it's 150mbps instead of my 10mbps
 
you're goign through cox right?
 
Blown away
 
@Retsam Great! Now implement Predicate
 
6:34 PM
@SterlingArcher Why? I like having ORM correctness checked by the compiler.
 
@Zirak Why am I implementing it? It's already implemented
 
Something like predicate, something which can be passed around like a lambda
 
@Zirak The predicate object is something that can be passed around like a lambda.
 
...and lets say it doesn't fit your needs so you need to create a new one
 
What wouldn't fit my need about it? It's arbitrary java code
 
6:36 PM
I give up
 
@JanDvorak I meant that like I don't like having to make a class for every table. It's tedious. But I love how it works
 
Try and use them, be disappointed, we can cry together
 
@Retsam You are legendary.
 
@SterlingArcher Would you prefer having your classes generated by the ORM? That does seem legit.
 
Is that possible?
 
6:38 PM
    Array<Integer> oneToAHundred = //;
    Predicate<Integer> oddInteger = (i) -> i%2 === 1;
    Predicate<Integer> lessThan50 = (i) -> i < 50;
    Array<Integer> oddsLessThan50 = oneToAHundred.stream().filter(oddInteger.and(lessThan50)).toArray();
 
I'm pretty sure that there are code generators for Java
 
Sometimes it's confusing because it doesn't like the camelCase or it adds underscores, but that's not bad
 
^ What's not to like about this code? I'm really not liking this "I'm not going to explain my complaints, I'm just going to insist that if you knew more than you do that you'd agree with me" attitude, Zirak.
 
@JanDvorak I must find one. Feed it an ERD schema somehow and it generates an ORD class file
 
@Retsam so verbose.
C# for comparison:
 
6:39 PM
@Retsam Fine. What's Predicate's type signature?
 
I believe it's better to generate SQL from the object model rather than the opposite. But sometimes you already have a database.
 
It's interface Predicate <T> { bool test(T); }
In map, you don't want to return a boolean. So you need to implement a new interface.
In sort, you accept more than one argument. So you need to implement a new interface.
 
var oneToAHundred = //;
var oddsLessThan50 = oneToAHundred.Where(x => (x%2 == 0) && (x < 50)).toList();
 
In reduce, you don't want to return a boolean and you have more than one argument. So you need to implement a new interface.
 
@Zirak you need one for every primitive, and then one for everything else.
 
6:41 PM
Meanwhile in ruby..
 
They also have weird classes for primitives.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum ew
 
Just compare it to scala which also runs on the JVM:
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I could have inlined that, too, in Java, I just did it explicitly for readability.
 
Now you see what I mean @Retsam? It's not arbitrary java code. It still needs a weirdo middleman interface.
 
user1596138
6:41 PM
@Loktar Yeah Cox I didn't see any other options really
 
val oneToAHundred =//
val oddsLessThan50 = oneToAHundred.filter(_%2 == 0 && _<50);
 
user1596138
Other than maybe Comcast... lol
 
^*2 scala, still fully typed.
 
This is also legal Java. oneToAHundred.stream().filter((i) -> (i%2 === 1) && (i < 50)).toArray();
 
Century link is the other company
but its just DSL iirc
 
6:42 PM
other than the _ thingie, almost as conscise as Haskell.
 
cox is the best though by far
 
@Retsam yes, but you still don't have type inference for the return type, and have to type .stream() and .toArray(), just compare it to scala.
 
@Loktar don' you guys have google ?
 
@Zirak Java 8 has things other than Predicate if you want more than one input, or if you want to return something other than boolean.
 
@JanDvorak it's more concise than Haskell.
 
6:43 PM
@Retsam I'm sure it has everything you'll ever need
 
Predicate is specifically for "one input returns a boolean".
 
@Retsam it's just less well thought out than other languages, don't get me wrong it's great that they got it - it's just little and late.
 
@rlemon no, not here
 
And it's still retarded to the core.
 
thats in Kansas
my dl speed fluctuates between 70-110
 
6:44 PM
They've already done, and type inference in the same release. Why not combine the two?
 
I don't think we're in Kansas anymore, Loktar
 
and yeah price isn't bad I think I pay $50 or so idk
 
filter (\i -> (i%2 == 1) && (i < 50)) oneToAHundred
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'm not claiming its the best functional interface ever, but it's pretty damn good for a not functional language.
 
On the one hand, it's good that there're these things in Java. On the other hand, holy shit, it's Java 8 and that's all it has?
 
6:44 PM
@Retsam right, just worse than any other modern non functional language like C#, or Scala or even C++
Where are the closures?
@JanDvorak yeah, that's not more concise.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Seems pretty comparable to C#. And isn't Scala explicitly functional?
 
... or just [1,3..49]
 
It's not comparable to C#
 
@Retsam no, it's functional and oop both.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum So, that makes it functional. That's how "and" works, no?
 
6:46 PM
@Retsam where are the closures, also in C# linq will give you a syntax tree, you can write that code in LINQ and then run it against a database or as RPC, that's insanely powerful.
 
But why are you listening to us? Use Java 8 for a bit and you'll see. Then use C# for a bit and you'll see.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Is it not? I've stripped off two boilerplate methods and the rest is copy-paste from Retsam's sample.
 
@Zirak Gaah
 
parallelStream is nice, but it's very weak compared to the TPL.
 
mostly
 
6:46 PM
Please stop with the "if only you knew more"... line. It's condescending as hell.
 
At this point the argument is moot. Do you expect Java praise?
@Retsam ...that's not "if you knew more", that's experience with the language
It's not about intelligence or smarts, it's using these things
 
@JanDvorak yes, it's more verbose than oneToAHundred.filter(_%2 == 0 && _<50), that's ok, haskell is a pretty verbose language for non-trivial things (and that's not that big of a problem).
 
Do you really expect to get a feel of what's it like to use something from reading about it?
 
@Retsam it's not "only if you knew more", I'm actually fond of what they added in Java 8, it's just not really comparable to C#.
 
Lounge<C++>: where half of the room hates the other half.
 
6:47 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum I don't like the _ magic. What if you have nested lambdas?
 
@rlemon yeah, lol.
@JanDvorak then don't use that syntax, use -> like in Haskell.
 
@Zirak experience is a form of "knowing more". Saying "you'll agree with me when you have more experience" is just as useless of an argument.
 
I'm not arguing that Scala is good, or it's better than Haskell, or anything really - just saying that in one particular example it's more concise.
@Retsam I'm not saying that - I'm giving actual examples (LINQ giving you a syntax tree, not having to .stream, more powerful parallel extensions and closures).
 
I might still want to learn Scala. Can you convince me I do?
 
@Retsam The argument is non-existent. Your argument is "it's good because it looks good". My argument is "it's not good because I used it and it sucks".
 
6:49 PM
@Zirak I'm pointing out the things I like about it, that's all. You're just saying "no it sucks and you'll know it sucks once you have more experience with it"
 
@JanDvorak Scala is worth learning because chances are you'll have to work against the JVM in one point and it's a lot nicer and Haskell'ish than Java in many regards.
 
quick question, how do you target the <element> an "onload" is called from?
 
Fine, I'm an inconsiderate jerk. Can we move on?
 
@Zirak I actually like functional interfaces, I think they're a great addition to the language - Java 8 is much better than Java 7
 
reguardless of name
 
6:50 PM
@phpPluginMaster onload only works on images and scripts, also - this.
 
so, Scala == the closest you can get to Haskell that still targets the JVM?
 
Yeah, lets move on.
 
Or e.target.
@JanDvorak no, there's clojure, and Haskell also can run on the JVM, but Scala has amazing Java interop and it has a lot less friction than Java.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Its existence makes the language better, yes. It's still subpar. I'm not going to praise it
 
i know, i'm having a function that builds something within the tags, like a div tag
 
6:51 PM
@phpPluginMaster div tags don't have load events.
 
I guess I've learned better than to say good things about an imperfect language. Good thing JS doesn't ever have that problem.
 
document.body.innerHTML = '<' + data.tag + '>' + data.content + '</' + data.tag + '>';
 
@Retsam all languages are pretty horrible :D
Except PHP, PHP is perfect like that :D
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum So perfect, I don't want to touch it. I might ruin it.
 
@SomeKittens can that be plugged within a div, or a tag?
 
6:52 PM
@Retsam Say whatever you want. I can agree with what @BenjaminGruenbaum: "It's good that java 8 has functional aspects". I can't agree with "java 8 has a good functional aspect"
 
@Zirak the worst part about Java functional programming is most Java programmers don't even understand it.
I answered one or two Java questions with Java 8 APIs and people were like "Woah!" I was like "wtf"
 
kind of like how tinymce targets all text areas
 
@phpPluginMaster The fact that you looked at that code and said "Hmm, how could I use that" tells me that you have a lot to learn.
 
@SomeKittens ew
 
Your sheer doggedness is admirable (and I say that as kittens) but it will not result in the end product you want.
 
6:55 PM
so you can do that with any tag you want to?
:D
 
@phpPluginMaster >:(
 
what? do i answer some questions way too well?
i'm getting great answer for posting links to my github repositories for answers :D
 
2 mins ago, by SomeKittens
@phpPluginMaster The fact that you looked at that code and said "Hmm, how could I use that" tells me that you have a lot to learn.
 
@phpPluginMaster because you keep choosing highly frequented questions?
 
Every day you come in here and show off the neat way you cut up a shoe to hammer in a nail and get upset when we tell you to learn about hammers.
 
6:57 PM
how do I maths
 
as someone who doesn't quite understand promisify in bluebird... parse(options, function(err, data) {}); <- this would promisify?
@NickDugger what is drugs?
 
@rlemon If it's a nodeback, it'll promisify.
(nodeback = callback with err as first argument, data as second)
 
nvm
@Zirak and callback being second argument is a must?
or no? does petka automagically know what argument is the callback?
 
It's the last argument
 
ok, makes sense. thanks.
I really enjoyed that song
 
6:59 PM
Where is he?
 

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