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9:02 PM
Why are you guys all talking about linters? They are as useless as heck. All of them.
 
@TimothyGu you are useless.
 
I've never actually encountered one useful warning.
 
@TimothyGu Given the popularity of these tools, I'd say that's an extraordinary claim. And extraordinary claims require more than anecdotal evidence.
 
well i'm just saying from my own perspectives/experiences. If linters work for you, fine, but they don't for me.
and I have never seen one anecdotal evidence that linters are effective
 
@TimothyGu have you ever been caught out by IE7/8 not being able to handle trailing commas?
 
9:05 PM
to be honest, no
thanks for the evidence
 
Well, that can make an entire site not run. I've had that happen. Linters prevent that. And that's just the first rule on the list of rules ESLint has.
 
now i finally know of one (or two) evidence(s) that a linter is helpful on
 
@TimothyGu have you ever had IE break because console.log doesn't exist?
 
If you're looking for anecdotal evidence, JSHint saves me from myself at least once a day. If you're looking for empirical evidence, Code Complete 2 has it.
 
hello. can someone help me please? (stackoverflow.com/questions/…). i don't understand where i should call (and how) the popstate-event like in the correct answer of "kindasimple"
 
9:06 PM
@phenomnomnominal any good js programmers know console is not x-platform
 
@TimothyGu "No true Scotsman"
 
^ lol
 
@TimothyGu so you manually go through all your code before releasing it, looking for console.logs?
 
(and console.log IS cross-platform, just sometimes)
 
That's just fucking stupid.
 
9:07 PM
Hi,
has someone already used the brite snow framework ?
 
I guess you could say it's not technically part of the spec.
 
^^ that
 
I use jscs lately love it. It enforces whitespace, tabbing ect.
 
@TimothyGu What platforms don't support it?
 
maybe you can argue that I'm just too lazy to disable all the style warnings
 
9:09 PM
Node, IO, Chrome, Safari, IE, Firefox, Opera all have it
 
@SomeKittens old ie
like @phenomnomnominal said
 
@TimothyGu You have a strange definition of "cross platform"
 
@SomeKittens according to SO he is only 15
 
^^ yep
 
9:10 PM
oh sorry, i didn't copied the url -> stackoverflow.com/questions/26832590/…
 
Dunning-Kruger at its finest.
 
@TimothyGu What's the largest team you've worked with?
 
@phenomnomnominal Unrelated: Met another Kiwi dev on IRC
 
@SomeKittens that's cool! Damn youngins!
 
I work with an Aussie dev. He's pretty cool, but a little nuts
 
9:16 PM
@taco Like, say @monners.
 
When I hung out with him in December he got up to 105 mph and everybody else was going maybe 70
He can't even shift his Audi R(something). He needs a paddle shifter. I about had a heart attack
 
@JohnBrunner stop that.
Are you a bot?
That's the third time you asked that copy -pasted.
 
@phenomnomnominal what do you mean by largest team?
 
@TimothyGu how many other developers?
 
@phenomnomnominal if you mean like OSS then ~10
@phenomnomnominal but that wasn't a JS project though
 
9:25 PM
@TimothyGu I guess what I actually mean is, what experience do you have with JS code as a communication medium (e.g. that other people have to read and maintain)?
 
@phenomnomnominal ~4
(regular ones, not counting newcomers)
 
Okay, so that's a relatively small project/team
 
@phenomnomnominal You can have them removed by Closure Compiler
 
@copy which is pretty much linting :P
 
9:31 PM
Oh, right
 
@phenomnomnominal i wouldn't call the project small (~8000 stars on GH, ~34,000 npm installs per day)
 
@TimothyGu not small in impact, but small in size
It's a cool project, I've used it.
 
not small in code size or maintaining effort either :p
 
Jade's great at what it does.
 
it's pretty small in code size
 
9:33 PM
Now I know who to ping when I have trouble.
 
a 15-year-old who acts like a jerk in SO chat?
 
@TimothyGu I made the mistake of trying out EJS on a project. Now I've got to convert everything.
 
but yeah i'm open for questions, but Jade templates get really ugly if you want a little bit more than what it does
I maintain EJS too :d
 
Language                     files          blank        comment           code
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Javascript                      30           1651           2609           7707
 
If only Jade and EJS were a little faster. :-P
 
9:36 PM
@TimothyGu did you pick it up after TJ left for Go?
 
@SomeKittens EJS is still the most robust templating engine I've seen though, so i wouldn't convert all your code
@SomeKittens no
 
@TimothyGu The priority in this project is iteration speed, not robustness.
 
@RoelvanUden don't even talk about performance in Jade. EJS is OK, but don't use version 2
@SomeKittens sure then
 
Exactly. But that's mostly just due to the way it concats and escapes.
 
Jade is just easier to modify.
 
9:37 PM
[].join() is the silliest thing ever :D
 
Invalid byte at start of character: 0x89
ugh
I hate you, charsets
 
@SomeKittens not if you want something like this: stackoverflow.com/questions/28034107/…
@RoelvanUden not really. It saves bytes, and is faster than string concat in some of my tests
 
If you need that complex of a template language to begin with, you're doing it wrong.
 
@RoelvanUden I like it because it lets me have multiline strings in a pretty manner
 
@SomeKittens Back to your original question, see my blog post on some history of how i started maintaining ejs
 
9:39 PM
Yeah.. it doesn't really work that well, honestly. You get the best performance by doing optimizing concats. Most of the stuff you don't even need to put into an array. Just emit the code into ops, join them before you make the final code, and then leave only the absolutely mandatory statements to get the logic in you want. Most template engines suffer a lot from not doing this :P
 
@TimothyGu will read, one sec
!!afk unpacking yarn (seriously)
 
@RoelvanUden do you mean something like AOT compilation?
 
@TimothyGu Pretty much. You only need to leave the bare minimum of flow code in the output function. The intermediate steps aren't an issue most of the time, if you can compile a template in ~200ms or ~10ms nobody cares. Both Jade and EJS don't do a lot of optimizing, hence other engines can easily outperform them.
 
@RoelvanUden first, from my own benchmarks EJS outperform most templating engines out there in JS, except one (doT, whose code is unreadable). Second, in many cases flow code is unavoidable, because you don't know what will be in the locals
@RoelvanUden one thing EJS can improve on is having compile-time variables/conditionals, like doT does
 
Hehe to name a few; DoT, Hogan, Dust, ECT, Gaikan, Swig, Underscore, Handlebars, Eco. That said, I'm not here to discourage them or anything. They are production, but if you want absolute performance, a no go.
 
9:45 PM
don't even talk about performance in Jade. It's as volatile as Jade, and as slow as you can carry Jade safely.
 
@TimothyGu why is templating performance a big issue anyway? It's cached anyway. Templating is super fast anyway, I've never had a bottleneck because of templating.
 
How do I compare a DOM element returned by event.target with a DOM Node returned by the .get() method in jQuery?
 
@ray9209 ===
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum what if the cached function is slow?
 
9:48 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum anyway
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I have…
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Cached function can be slow or fast depending on the output fn
And of course, nobody thinks of escaping variables on Windows.
 
@TimothyGu pfft, even when I implemented a mustache or EJS clone you'd just use a JITable function - once you do it's super fast anyway.
 
We use a different regex engine, your linux regex doesnt work for us :P
 
BTW, when i was optimizing EJS a while ago I found out that the HTML escape function was a bottleneck…
 
9:50 PM
@TimothyGu Why would compilation speed matter with caching? This benchmark is completely bogus...
 
@TimothyGu I could've told you that. :-P
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I have too
 
@TimothyGu Petka wrote a fast and safe templating engine once. He got bored though.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum you mean the jsperf i posted? It has benchmarking for **compiled**/cached functions too
 
9:51 PM
@FlorianMargaine really? I usually find it slow just on the initial compile and then really fast.
 
@FlorianMargaine doesn't work, @BenjaminGruenbaum doesn't work, .get() returns it in this format: [input#id-name.class-name], .event.target returns it in this format: <input id=id-name" class="class-name" type="text">
 
Because Windows !== Linux escaping speed.
 
yup, I had an app where 30% of time was spent in templating
 
@ray9209 so do [0], learn about arrays.
@TimothyGu oh cool, lemme run it.
 
@RoelvanUden huh?
 
9:53 PM
@FlorianMargaine really? That's crazy, it's super simple to write a really fast templating engine... it's one of the easiest problems to solve in terms of optimization...
 
@Zirak W..what?
 
@RoelvanUden hm interesting project. I do agree that having two html escaping files is overkill though
 
@RoelvanUden What's the difference? Can you explain what happens in the two platforms? They seem to be identical in spirit
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum tell me about it. I don't know the end of the story though, I got out of the project before the end
 
Heh. Please don't use Gaikan as much of a reference. It's fast, but the coding style is horrible. And it has bugs. And is unmaintained. And I don't even use it.
 
9:54 PM
It's just... you compile with the function constructor and let the JIT optimize the crap out of it - data flows in one direction.
 
@RoelvanUden haha
 
@Zirak They do the same thing, but the Windows platform has the Windows-specific regex lib which simply has different botlenecks.
 
Oooh, I have a question @TimothyGu how does performance compare to react?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum i don't use react so I don't know
 
I just did trail-and-error to make the Windows one fast, too.
 
9:55 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum but I expect react to be slower because everything with DOM is slow
 
@TimothyGu react doesn't use the dom it has its own
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum yes I know "virtual dom" but it is the same thing in principle
 
@RoelvanUden oh, so purely optimisation
 
I suspect react would perform reasonably well in a benchmark -because of how strings work in v8 most of the work would be interened.
@TimothyGu the dom is only slow because of FFI and even with FFI it's fast. The React DOM isn't slow at all.
 
Had me scared for a moment, thought Windows somehow ultra magically rendered entities differently...
 
9:57 PM
It's pure JS and is optimized for one-directional data flow.
 
@Zirak Jup. Most people ignore Windows but since I'm a Windows-only developer (with NodeJS projects that happen to work on Linux...) I care about Windows performance :-P
 
@RoelvanUden I actually used three escaping functions for EJS, I forgot the first one, the second one was chained replace, and third one was the object lookup
interestingly they have different performance in different configurations, even different performance when it is generated with Function() versus directly copied into a js file
 
The chained replace is best for Linux aye. Lookup for Windows. :-)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'm not sure then.
@Zirak ^^ true
 
@TimothyGu Yeah. But micro-optimization is futile IMHO. If you got the basis right (optimize away stuff you don't need in the final output) and your run-time support funcs are fast, you're golden. Nobody cares about the ~5-10% difference, but they do about 100%s
 
9:59 PM
@TimothyGu just generating a Function is the easy part - generating a fast one is the hard part. It needs to be very JITable and not to bail out.
 
Is there any articles on JITable functions?
 
@TimothyGu well, you want the easy reading or the hard reading?
 
Yeah. I'm sure Benjis digging up the article on Bluebird as we speak :P
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum easy one
I bet the hard one is v8 source
 
10:01 PM
Get the v8 one too :-)
 
The hard one is the v8 source, but only the relevant parts in crankshaft or turbufan.
 
lol js with inline asm
 
Is anyone here good at angularjs? I'm trying to figure out if it's possible to make angular only shallow watch things in the compilation step.
 
10:17 PM
@david try pinging @rlemon
 
I want to see if it's possible to use immutablejs to speed up this angular app i'm working on
 
because i've ever used Angular :P
 
cool ty @phen.
ahah okay then ><
 
oops :P
 
0
Q: Ethical Jobs in Careers

Benjamin GruenbaumI've noticed an advertisement in Stack Overflow Careers for a company that makes installers that steal the user's browser home page and installs unwanted toolbars and adware without informing the user. I was wondering if it's Stack Overflow's place to impose any ethical guidelines on which compa...

3
 
10:19 PM
upvoted.
Screw those companies
 
Leave a comment if your opinion is "screw those companies" - I deliberately didn't voice an opinion so it can be a discussion - if you make a comment I'll upvote it.
 
user1596138
...
 
@TimothyGu still around?
 
@SomeKittens yeah?
 
@TimothyGu If you don't mind some unsolicited advice from someone with a few years in the trenches: You have a fantastic resume for someone your age. You're learning a lot and blogging about it. Don't blow it by forming strong opinions yet.
Specifically: "How do you find static analysis tools help you in day-to-day work?" vs. chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/21702570#21702570
 
10:27 PM
@SomeKittens thanks for the suggestion, will keep that in mind
 
You're already well ahead many devs twice your age, so don't take that as me saying "LOL PLEBS GONNA PLEB"
 
@Jhawins I know many people who boycott those kinds of software
 
@SomeKittens tbh i actually googled what "pleb" mean
 
user1596138
@copy lol of course but that's not the standard
 
Then let's make it the standard
 
10:31 PM
@TimothyGu no shame in that.
 
user1596138
Good luck. I mean I totally agree with you but good luck.
 
It's cool that this might actually be possible on this platform, because it's (partly) run by the community
 
user1596138
As long as you're presented with the option I can't see how its "wrong". It's just shitty and annoying. If they ask that is. And if you install it by mistake well come on you're supposed to read those boxes before you check/accept them haha
 
I am so glad I didn't follow through with the Uber job.
 
user1596138
Its almost like a "let's screw the users who Dont even read what they're clicking in the slightest" to me.. Well that's one way to look at it anyway. It annoys the hell out of me tho for sure.
 
10:42 PM
@carb map?
 
@carb0nshel1 You've asked the weirdest questions the past few days
 
user4330208
its not on purpose, i'm trying to make a very specific app but i'm still relatively a newb
 
user1596138
IDC lol I'm eating my ice cream.
 
@Jhawins Did you bring enough for everyone?
 
@Jh
ooops
 
10:45 PM
@Zirak Any comment on that "No"?
 
@copy Someone conjured up a "yes", so it only seemed fair to bring a "no"
 
user1596138
@SomeKittens I did but I'm gonna eat it all because you guys were bad lol
 
@Jhawins noooooooo
 
44 messages moved to JS trash
 
Unless it's chocolate, I don't like chocolate.
 
user4330208
10:46 PM
i need to reverse this nodelist, but obviously reverse() doesn't work. So i converted the nodelist to an array but now I can't it back to a nodelist in the right order.
 
user1596138
Oh yeah its chocolate
 
@Jhawins Speaking of - Soylent has virtually no taste, but the texture is eh
 
user1596138
Yeah? Can you compare it to something?
 
@carb0nshel1 You can't (and probably don't need to)
 
Same goes for Ketosoy
 
10:48 PM
little too powdery.
 
@carb Oh wait, nodelists are crazy live array things... you might want to create a document fragment and append them to that
 
user1596138
Eww
 
user1596138
Can you mix it with more liquid?
 
if you really really need them to not be an array
 
I also got a fantastic night sleep last night (and I've been having trouble sleeping lately) so I'm wondering if it's due to some nutrient.
@Jhawins Yeah. This is the first batch I made so I could be doing something wrong
 
10:51 PM
Asking again: Does anyone here use angularjs enough to know how to modify the template compilation step to make all the watch expressions shallow rather than deep?
 
user1596138
I was actually chanting an old Indiana-an om for a good nights sleep while thinking about you last night. It wasn't the soylent.
 
user1596138
But yeah I would think mix more stuff? What's the consistency like if you were to use a spoon is it that solid or more liquidy
 
use a shaker bottle, makes it a lot better imo.
@Jhawins they are like a powder.. with firm bits
soylents consistency is better than ketosoys however.
 
@Jhawins It's very much a liquid. Less thick than a milkshake?
 
Ketosoy ships a hell of a lot faster though.
 
user1596138
10:54 PM
I'm kind of thinking maybe I should just eat milkshakes
 
@Jhawins You're halfway there
 
user1596138
Redneck soylent would be like milk shales and/or 42oz soft drink cups of mashed potatoes and gravy. Eaten with a straw
 
I searched for "Redundant do Found: do requestAnimationFrame tick Why not: requestAnimationFrame tick", trying to get rid of a warning and found this
user image
4
 
@Jhawins I have a friend who drank a happy meal. Blended the "food". Vomited on the first sip but finished it.
In unrelated news, he's a vegetarian now.
@copy That's brilliant.
 
user1596138
Dude that's. Wow.
 
user1596138
10:58 PM
I need to do that I lost way too much weight eating only frostys and mashed potatoes after I got my wisdom teeth out..
 
Can I unfollow a thread?
 
on github?
 
@copy lol.
@copy see? It's not the bad tooling or cryptic error messages, it's not the harder mental model. Your errors in Haskell and its friends are due to the fact you "You don't understand FP", you should "read about monads" and probably watch a SPJ talk (but not the one where he calls Haskell useless).
@david what's a "shallow watch expression"? Watches in Angular are shallow all the time (except for a super specific watch with a true second argument you put yourself, but no one does that).
 
@FlorianMargaine on SO.
 
11:04 PM
now makee me an Index page
the demo page is mostly done
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum It seems like when I bind to an array it will detect me pushing/popping things from the array and re-render... Doesn't that mean it's doing a deeper scan?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I know that much. I'll still watch the talk though
 
@david arrays are special (I'm assuming you mean an ng-repeat). Are you sure you're not just looking for "bind once" syntax?
@copy I thought obvious sarcasm is obvious. Although perhaps obvious sarcastic reply is also obvious? I'm sleepy :D
 
Oh, my bad
Should I still watch the talk?
 
@david change "for item in items" to "for item in ::items".
@copy well, SPJ has a lot of really good talks - I was just pointing out that Haskell tooling has severe problems and that often people are discouraged because of that (and not because they don't understand monads, for instance). I know most of my problems with Haskell were tooling related rather than conceptual.
 
11:12 PM
I'm not discouraged (yet)
 
user1596138
@darkyen00 what ever happened to everything? Still got big plans?
 
@copy Don't be discouraged. It's really fun, I just wish for better tooling. There are things about laziness and Haskell's type inference and monads that make it inherently harder to debug and the tooling needs to be much better than it is in other languages. Haskell should prove to you where your error is and why - at least it should be as debuggable as Python or JS.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Nope, not the bind-once thing, I'm trying to see if it's feasible to use immutablejs with angular
 
@david no, it is not. If you're using ImmutableJS then you can do better than Angular most of the time :P
@david there are libraries that let you push the whole array at once (the changed one) and only pay for the changes made - so you're making a batch update but are only paying as much as you would have in Angular for a single change.
 
unfortunately it's an existing project so i can't change that we're using angular v.v
 
11:18 PM
In that case don't use ImmutableJS. Angular is very very stateful by nature. You can use ImmutableJS but convert it to a regular collection before unwrapping it.
 
yeah if I can't use it to speed up the cycles then there's not really much point
I'm just researching shit atm
because we dont really have a decent abstraction for our data, just plain javascript objects and arrays that live in the services
 
That's a much more decent abstraction on data than some people have :D
 
js data is fine in arrays and objects tbh
 
it has been fine, but it's starting to get a little limiting
partially because previous devs have been sloppy
 
Well, the zen of Angular is to keep all the business logic completely outside of Angular.
Don't put your massive logic in Angular - put it outside of Angular and only put things that are related to presentation in Angular. That's the only sane way I've found to make Angular scale.
@BoltClock our friend is funny again: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/286681/1348195
 
11:24 PM
You mean not even inside services?
 
@david yes, that's exactly what I mean. I mean not even inside services.
 
Possibly even on the serverside
 
i think that ship has already sailed unfortunately
 
Angular is for managing the presentation - the complexity of presentation logic is usually horizontal - it's not a hierarchy it changes per screen - if it is a hierarchy you can get away with it with directives. Business logic on the other hand usually is vertical - Angular and other MV* frameworks do not address that problem well.
 
I am a newbie javascript person, experienced in programming in other languages. I have a set of photographs; I want my page to allow someone to go through the photos one at a time. I currently have JS that uses a list of filenames, and it is working. I want to have something on the server generate the list of filenames based on what is in the directory at the time the page is requested. Is this a reasonable thing to do with JS, or should I use a serverside technology like PHP?
 
11:27 PM
@david Which is why your code should be decoupled from Angular as much as you can. Business logic should be separated completely. This is Misko's way :D
 
i guess it kiiiinda already is. They do most of the heavy lifting in python
using decidedly un-restful endpoints v.v
 
@arcy You're not going to be able to get a list of files in the directory on the client
 
Heh, well - you can't keep all your JS in Angular - I can tell you that much.
 
Thanks -- for all I knew there was some ajax thing that would go back to the server and do it for me/you.
 
@Neal you pop in every day or so but never speak :D
 
11:29 PM
@Jhawins snapick fucked up
 
@arcy nope, sorry. You can get them to make a .zip out of it and upload it and get file names that way but that's about as much as you can do for a directory. There was an API proposal but it's deprecated and no one implemented it.
 
I joined a startup which delivers medicine lightning fast
 
I mean, Ajax already goes to the server and gets the image, why not a list of images? I just didn't know. So I can generate the list in PHP and echo the list into the page and replace my hardcoded array of filenames with that. Thanks to you both!
 
and I built a cash replacement tool specific for the country
wanna join on the latter ?
 
@dark That depends, do you market your medicines using toolbars?
 
11:31 PM
@arcy You can always publish a list of images in the directory and grab that with ajax
 
@david no
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum So if your business logic is outside your controllers and services, how does it get called? Or can you call it from within a service and somehow skip the $digest cycles that way?
 
its a completely different thing
I am more excited for my open source payment thing
and I must goto bed
 
goto?!
chaaarggeeee
 
its 5 am
 
11:33 PM
@david well, you can register them in Angular's DI as services (at least some of them) and call them or vice versa - get Angular's stuff with them (a service) and communicate.
 
I have office in 5
hours
 
Or you can use regular pubsub - or generally anything you'd use in regular Js.
That's the separation though - you also want to do the decoupling part.
I think I have an answer on that somewhere if you care.
 
Yeah sure might be worth a read
 
@loktar code review ? github.com/darkyen/awwfood
 
I'm still not sure if any of this is readily applicable to the app I'm working on
 
11:35 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum so how do you find react now ?
 
and flux !
 
Aug 6 '14 at 10:29, by Benjamin Gruenbaum
Ok, so react is pretty cool.
 
@darkyen00 ill check it out, and probably learn something along with way :P
my current issue with flux was dispatchers really
thats why i settled on reflux for my implementation
 
11:36 PM
lol doubtful its pretty dumb .. you might burst into laughter at some places
like how I calculate price
 
I want to see a nice example of handling a rest API with flux
every example I see is different. Some pull the data down in the actions, others in the stores.
I settled on doing it in the actions personally but idk, still feels weird
 
@Loktar to be fair I don't really see the need for flux with react. It's not part of it and it's not mandatory :P
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I like the flow personally
 
I think they're separate concepts that just happen to be used together at facebook
 
yeah they are.
 
11:40 PM
The next thing I'm going to be researching is using a more fluxy flow in this angular app
to see if i can get rid of some of these circular dependencies in our services
 
@Loktar I do it in actions as well
stores are really dumb for me they just store the output of actions
 
ah I see that now, nice
yeah thats how I've been doing it as well
 
though there is only one place I have used a network call in that demo
I hate bootstrap now
:-(
 
> recipe.Price = (~~(Math.random() * 100)) * 10;
lol
 
told u
 
11:46 PM
yeah I'm using react-bootstrap on our project at work
 
bootstrap becomes intolerable
when working on purely mobile projects
 
@dark how so?
and has anyone build something with skeleton?
 
you will use around 25% of the code
that you will load by
 
I like the way the skeleton people talk but I haven't actually battle tested it: getskeleton.com
 
@import 'bootstrap';
 
11:49 PM
haha yeah there is some serious css bloat
I only had to make one page responsive on my last project so I ended up using uncss on it
css file went from like 120k, to 20k
only caveat was any runtime styles had to be ignored so uncss wouldn't rip them out.
would be a hassle to use on a very large project I imagine
 
yep
My current solution is
don't use bootstrap
 
lol
 
write your own stuff
 
yeah that should be mine as well honestly. Its just an easy crutch/include to get stuff done for me :?
react-bootstrap doesn't even have a JQ dependency which is awesome
 
😏
yep
me installing bootstrap
bower install bootstrap
bower uninstall jquery
y
cd bower_components/
rm */.js
**/*.js
@Loktar you can try importing only the modules that you use in .less
but still the col bloat is insane
 
11:55 PM
yea
 
:-(
I must sleep !!!!
I have to work tomorrow and build 4 mobile apps before 14 March :-/
help would be appreciated ^^
 
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