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10:10 PM
 
@Zirak BenjaminGruenbaum is afk: Amsterdam (I'm not even implying)
 
Or anyone with a thing for languages/compilation
 
Guys, for a modern app, server-side templates or client-side templates (with a binding framework like KO or NG)?
 
@SecondRikudo Depends on a lot of things
 
10:13 PM
@phenomnomnominal Why?
 
buzzwords yo
 
@Zirak Good, for example?
@phenomnomnominal yolo swag
 
fomo brah
 
!!urban fomo
 
@SecondRikudo fomo "fear of missing out". The fear that if you miss a party or event you will miss out on something great
 
10:14 PM
huh
 
Don't read anything into that, just being gangsta
 
Lots of traffic? What kind of data (mostly static and cacheable, completely dynamic, somewhere inbetween)? What do you want your UI to be like? Do you plan on having a forward-facing API?
 
@Zirak Very little traffic, somewhere in between, does it matter? no
 
Client-side rendering is great if you want it to be the client's problem, i.e. you want your server to spend its doing delivering content, not "pre-rendering" it. I'd say it's a good fit for requesting lots of dynamic data. It's also good if you're using some framework (like ko or angular or react or whatever), because then you don't have to spend time binding an already-created DOM into it.
 
But you'd want an API
 
10:18 PM
@Zirak I'm on the concept phase, I can do pretty much whatever I want with frameworks.
 
On the other hand, server-side rendering is cacheable, could feel faster for the user (since he's not doing the initial rendering), and you're probably using it anyway (since you're liable to want every page to include that navbar, why not also have it send the processed content?)
 
How feasible is a combination of the two with the frameworks we have today?
Without repeating too much of the work
(i.e. don't send the same data twice)
 
Just render the initial page on the server & then do the rest client side.
 
Depends on how you combine them. You can for instance have the server construct the page layout (the same header and footer etc), and have the client load the data.
 
I'd say combining them is too much work tho
 
10:21 PM
With React you can do more, since you can share components between client and server.
 
Do you have lots of front end devs? Skills should be a consideration too. We struggle so hard here to find the right people.
 
he's the sole dev I think
 
Ah. Lucky
 
@phenomnomnominal Solo
@Zirak Isn't React a pure UI framework?
 
Yes but it can be rendered on the server
virtual DOM ftw.
and there are the other bits that can be added to it
 
10:26 PM
Hey-O
 
@SecondRikudo Yes, and you can ask it to either create a real DOM or real html or whatever you like
 
Can it create real women?
 
yes, but with fake tits.
it's sorely lacking
 
No dice
 
btw, since you'd probably want to send some data along with the page itself (after all, it's absurd that /users/john will require you to send another http request to get the user's data), you can use a neat trick: Embed the data inside a script or code tag, parse it on the client.
 
10:29 PM
@Zirak this trick has a drawback tho
you can't use some security headers
 
It looks ugly
 
and you can't cache this html file (if it's user specific)
 
@FlorianMargaine Which leads back to my question of whether the content is mostly static or dynamic. If it's dynamic, you wouldn't want to cache it anyway.
 
<script>var data = <?= $myData; ?>;</script> Yuck
 
10:30 PM
@monners Oh dear lord no, that'll lead to all sorts of horrible stuff
 
I did say yuck
 
<code><?= JSON.stringify(myData) ?></code>
 
i vomited a little
 
Shouldn't it be parse?
 
@FlorianMargaine Elaborate?
 
10:31 PM
Oh, sorry
duh
 
@Zirak CSP
Content Security Policy (CSP) is a computer security concept, to prevent cross-site scripting (XSS) and related attacks. It is a Candidate Recommendation of the W3C working group on Web Application Security. CSP provides a standard HTTP header that allows website owners to declare approved sources of content that browsers should be allowed to load on that page — covered types are JavaScript, CSS, HTML frames, fonts, images and embeddable objects such as Java applets, ActiveX, audio and video files. == Status == CSP was originally developed by the Mozilla Foundation and was first implemented in...
and my bad, your trick lets us use it
 
@FlorianMargaine How does this effect CSP? Your endpoint for getting the same data still uses the same rules, and your client gets its data from the server (which it needs to trust)
 
(since you use a <code> tag, not a script one)
@Zirak CSP headers can disable inline scripts
 
What I meant by script tag is a custom type, like <script type='mumbo/jumbo'>json</script>
 
my bad then
 
10:35 PM
It's decided then. You will all become my mindless evil minions.
 
do you offer paid vacations?
401k? dental?
 
I offer not being slapped with a meat grinder
 
I'll have to consider it.
 
how can you take more than a second to decide?
@Zirak where do I get tatooed?
 
I have really good benefits where I am right now. Mind, not as good as not being hit with a meat grinder. It's a powerful offer.
 
10:44 PM
Back in my day we used to dream about only getting hit with a meat grinder.
 
Back in my day we used to dream about meat, which prompted awkward explanations as to why we're changing our bed sheets ("no...I just spilled some water...")
 
Yeah, that falls firmly into the camp of too much information
Especially considering you never paid me for all that dry cleaning
 
11:03 PM
@Zirak You're a bit too late
See, I've since long completed the Eye of the Moon plan
You're all dreaming.
 
In before Anime story
 
Even this very conversation.
@copy You guys are talking about evil minions, what did you expect? :o
 
I don't know, zombie stories?
 
11:19 PM
I'm just now realizing some subtle aspects of Shutter Island. Like when he's having hallucinations in the ward during the storm, the smoke on his cigarette is in reverse
Kewl
 
Hi! Is there a tool in FF or Chrome that displays the HTML of the page like in the "Inspect / Developer tool" but really the long HTML code, not paragraph-shortened ?
Right click > Show source would work : it displays the full HTML, non shortened, but it shows the HTML as it was when loading the page! :(
 
Select all -> view selection source
 
Go into the inspector, right click on the <html> node, copy, paste into text editor
 
@copy which browser?
 
Firefox
 
11:26 PM
(chrome)
 
Or type document.documentElement.innerHTML in the console
 
-1 not enough jQuery
lol jk
 
@SterlingArcher Great! Right click on the <html> even gives Edit right there (in FF!)
@copy great as well! Thanks !
 

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