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7:00 PM
@AwalGarg Brackets.io <-then don't
and btw, use a 2nd (3rd, even 4th) monitor
 
@CSᵠ I know but it is very slow on my shitty computer
@CSᵠ lol I am a student, I have to do shit on what I have... I can't get more than that :P
 
throw shit away
 
7:13 PM
Tips for late night coding session please?
 
Stop asking stupid questions
 
;'(
 
!!SPACESHIPS or Elite: Dangerous
 
@SomeKittens Elite: Dangerous
 
done
 
7:19 PM
@SomeKittens but... isn't...
 
huh?
Either write code for SPACESHIPS or play E:D
 
Elite Dangerous. Isn't that... spaceships?
 
I know, just being myself
 
7:35 PM
@SomeKittens they are announcing the release next week
The beta will be over Nov 15th I believe
but beta players will be able to play all the way into release which is cool
 
7:52 PM
@Loktar Context, bitch.
 
8:24 PM
@Zirak do you only have access to like 2 lines of text?
lol read what somekittens was just talking about
 
@Loktar Yep, exciting
just got myself a Viper
Very nice ship, if limited FOV
Taking a break, video card was dropping too many frames
 
Oh if only there was a game where you could design your own customized spaceships...
 
OH HUSH YOU
 
hurr hurr hurr
 
@KendallFrey and fly them first person!
And explore a few billion star systems
 
8:29 PM
Next step isn't even customizing spaceships
that's 0.3
 
and trade/bounty hunt..
 
as of today, I have 99 kerbals in one ship
 
if only a game like that existed! :P
 
@Loktar KSP has first person view
 
oh nice didn't know they added that
can you control it with a joystick?
 
8:30 PM
yeah
 
sure
I never do though
 
Talked my coworker into getting X-52 pro for KSP and E:D
 
the only time it would be useful is for planes
and planes aren't useful
 
ah thats cool, ksp is a great game just different
 
I know
 
8:32 PM
one of the early access games that deserves all the money it gets
 
I want a 980.
 
I'm waiting until the 3xx series is announced for amd
going to get one of those.
Was going to build a PC this november but holding off
 
I've had issues with AMD drivers on Linux
 
@Loktar Well I'm really sorry I read that as if you were talking to SomeGuy
 
haha no problem
 
8:39 PM
And because you two are my role models I simply wanted to know what you were talking about
JERKWAD
 
!!documentation or features or fuck all
 
@KendallFrey features
 
The girl's elbows are at a terrible angle.
 
> if you're under 13, please do not try to swallow it.
@Zirak bad angle > no angle
 
Trying to imitate her is painful, and I've only done the British accent.
 
8:54 PM
Please tell me you're not repeatedly knocking a cat onto the floor and cursing.
 
...okay
 
@KendallFrey this makes perfect sense. And by perfect sense I mean purple rhinoceros
 
@Neil I can totally imagine Zirak doing that.
 
@KendallFrey Maybe I just don't get the context of the message, but that message struck me as very odd
 
si, no comprende
 
9:03 PM
@Neil Did you watch the video?
 
Trying to optimize my now suddenly slow SPACESHIPS - turns out my IRC client was bogging the whole PC down
 
@SomeKittens Yikes. Which one do you use, and may I recommend irssi.org ?
 
IRCCloud
 
@Zirak how can you not recommend erc?!
 
@FlorianMargaine Because he's not using emacs
 
9:12 PM
Make him use emacs
 
@SomeKittens Use emacs. Rawr.
@FlorianMargaine It didn't work
 
@Zirak I'm aroused.
 
...or did it?
 
how was everyone's halloween?
 
You're not trying hard enough
 
9:14 PM
Combining that with @SomeKittens' latest message, I'm not sure I want to try hard.
 
Uh? I thought that was your thing.
 
!!afk lasers in space
 
9:58 PM
@KendallFrey No
 
10:21 PM
so, this is fun
I'm currently in romania, to visit my grandparents. I got here by plane, and 2 cousins of my mother got us from the airport to their house (200km).
They apparently are programmers. The eldest (26yo) codes in C, the other (23) codes in C++, and listening to them arguing which is the best for the 1000th time (for them, first for me) really was funny
Then there came the js guy
they never worked with graphics, so, just as I've shown them some of my stupidest demos they were speechless :D
 
11:01 PM
@Loktar have you been getting painfully slow lag (2-3 seconds) in stations?
(since Beta 3)
 
11:12 PM
We touched penises.
 
Is there anything the $.attr method offers over the DOM object?
 
11:28 PM
@SterlingArcher what browsers do you have to support?
In shorts - lots in old browers, in new browers it normalizes some stuff and takes care of some edge cases but in generally I'd not use it - especially for properties of objects.
$(elem).attr("id") is the retarded man's elem.id
 
^ that's mostly what I was referring to
I don't think I've ever used it beyond the retarded property manipulation (before I learned)
What sort of issues do old browsers have with attributes?
 
It's also nice for chaining, you can pass an object to it and it'll .merge for multiple attributes at once.
@SterlingArcher lots, some act as read only, some need differnet names in differnet browsers - it's a whole lot of fun in old IE
IIRC hasAttribute is an IE9 thing :P
jQuery solved a huge problem when we had to support IE6
 
That's crazy
I love how jQuery normalized the browser game
If I had to test on legacy browsers, and fix my own compatibility issues, I'd cry and become a java developer
err.. bad reference. I am becoming a Java developer at work
 
ew java
Well, at least you got that raise
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum considering I work with ColdFusion... Java is a huge bump up xD
 
11:36 PM
Java rocks.
 
@AliceYoung Welcome to the JavaScript chat! Please review the room pseudo-rules. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
 
@SterlingArcher oh lol.
 
@AliceYoung I hope that's not serious
 
I'm totally serious.
 
11:36 PM
ColdFusion is Java and HTML's lovechild
Minus the love
 
@AliceYoung well, I'm glad you're happy coding in it. I just think it's a very outdated language.
 
@AliceYoung You're also totally wrong :D
 
@SterlingArcher Java and HTML's pity sex child?
 
$150K/year says otherwise
 
@KendallFrey aww, don't be hating on the new guy who likes his stack
 
11:37 PM
@AliceYoung money isn't everything
 
@AliceYoung liking money != liking Java
 
What do you like about java?
 
Java tooling is best as well
 
There's a reason nobody will work with java for cheap
2
 
@AliceYoung how much your make says very little about your tech stack. Not to mention that's not that much money.
 
11:38 PM
I've met some for lack of better words, retarded developers who make astounding money
 
you can't build a big system in PHP. Or Ruby. Or node.
 
@AliceYoung of course, because it requires so much tooling - other languages don't require so much code generation because you write less code to begin with.
 
@AliceYoung sure you can
 
NodeJS is a very modular language that extends perfectly for large scale applications
 
11:39 PM
ever try to refactor Ruby? OMG.
 
@AliceYoung node isn't a language. Also - reality disagrees, for example Paypal moving their stack from Java to JavaScript with Node, or Facebook running on PHP until they added Erlang for chat.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum you don't consider node a language?
Hmm
That actually makes sense
 
node is javascript
 
It's a server-framework for JS, no?
 
Node is a language like .NET is a language
 
11:40 PM
@SterlingArcher it's a platform, not a language, there is no "node grammar" or "node semantics"
 
i.e. not
 
Java has a huge ecosystem problem these last couple of years, the language is outdated, I can't believe it's Oct 2014 and it still has no lambdas, no closure, no LINQ, no expressions, no events, no runtime generics.
It's just so... outdated. It's like they progressed very little since 2005.
 
@Benja
 
No type inference, no value types... it just goes on and on.
 
@Benjamin - I guess you haven't heard of Java 8
 
11:41 PM
PHP upgraded pretty hard. It's 2014 and they support anonymouns functions now :O
 
I remember when I learned about Java's 'generics'. lmao
 
@AliceYoung Of course I have, Java 8 addresses some of those issues (for example - inheritance is broken so they've finally added multiple inheritance). Have you deployed any Java 8 code yet?
 
!!afk shmoke
 
I have, yes.
 
It was not a fun day for me :)
(Deploying Java 8)
Not to mention that while they addressed some issues, it's too little too late.
Not to mention the hilarious "everything is an object except for stuff that's not object like primitives, or functions" approach. Seriously what were they smoking?
None of that shit in Scala or C#.
 
11:43 PM
Java has never been "everything is an object."
If it were, it would be dead-slow, like Ruby
 
@AliceYoung in C# everything is an object and it's as fast (usually faster) than Java.
It's called 'a non broken type system'. You don't have to actually create a JVM object for it to be an object - you can easily optimize that.
 
@AliceYoung Is Java not slow? It must have changed significantly
 
@KendallFrey Java's not slow, it's not as fast as languages like Lua but it's pretty decent.
It's about as fast as C# last I looked at benchmarks. JS is also pretty fast with a JIT.
The only reason Ruby isn't fast is because no one bothered making it fast - there is nothing 'slow' about the Ruby language.
 
Knock knock.
Who's there?
..
...
....
Java.
3
 
@AliceYoung let me remind you Java was very slow until Lars Bak wrote Hotspot and made it fast. It's all about the JIT - same for JS.
 
11:46 PM
I know. I was writing Java before hotspot.
 
Me too, not a lot of fun :D
Same for JS, it was slow and then Lars Bak made it fast, it's not slower than Java now.
 
It was better than any of the alternatives at the time.
 
Don't get me wrong, I liked Java, and I still use it from time to time. It just hasn't moved as fast as it should have.
@AliceYoung yeah, people (me included) didn't understand C++ very well at the time and C was horrible. Python wasn't where it is today.
Also - the ecosystem isn't very good. Maven isn't where it should be and neither is Gradle.
IntelliJ IDEA was the bomb a few years ago, but every language has a JetBrains IDE now, JS has one Ruby has one PHP has one Python has one... it lost the tooling edge.
 
The ecosystem isn't very good? I'd say it's the best there is. Everything else seems to be trying to mimic what Java has.
 
good one
 
11:49 PM
Having worked with Java build systems, I'd say pip, npm and NuGet all decimate it, I'd say even cabal is much better, not to mention ruby gems which is what everyone was actually mimicing.
 
I use WebStorm, RubyMine and PyCharm. They can't do what IntelliJ or Eclipse can do with a big system.
 
They have a lot of functionality to solve problems that don't exist in JS Ruby or Python.
 
I'd say JS, Ruby and Python all have some serious issues when you try to develop something serious.
 
For example, if you want to extend a class and decorate all its method - that'd require a lot of code generation in Java, you'd have to override every single method. In Python you have actual decorators and in JS you'd use prototypical inheritance and a for loop.
 
JS has serious issues when when you try to develop something serious? Let me introduce you to the World Wide Web of the 21st century.
 
11:50 PM
@AliceYoung again, reality disagrees - the world is full of large successful projects in all three.
 
I guess you haven't developed anything serious.
 
It's like Google used to write JS in Java and compile it to JS and stopped doing that a while ago when they realized how to write good JS.
@AliceYoung what we developed is irrelevant (although I developed plenty of 'serious'), the fact of matter is the world is full of 'serious' written in languages like Python.
Not to mention languages like C# which are just Java only two generations ahead and better.
 
I wouldn't consider the frontend of most websites a serious project
Google Maps etc, maybe
 
I'm not talking about your average blog
 
Google Maps is huge, but so is stuff like GMail and Facebook - just try to think about all the hidden concurrency and complexity there.
 
11:53 PM
^
 
While stuff like Google docs and Facebook are big - I was mostly talking about backend though.
Java doesn't have mixins, and it doesn't have runtime generics (It does have undecidable generics and the compiler has to guess though, lol).
I think Eric Meijer had a good quote about super and extends, lemme find it.
Something like "Brains are splattered all across cubicles in the united states because of super and extends" but I can't find it right now.
Anyhow - Java is an ancient programming language that lacks fundamental stuff languages have now - value types, real first order functions, closures, runtime generics, expression trees, generators, concurrency facilities and more.
 
good lord Benji, is there a language you haven't worked with?
 
The one redeeming quality of Java code is that you can run Scala on the JVM.
Or clojure.
 
Does JS have value types?
 
@SterlingArcher I haven't worked with lots of languages.
 
11:56 PM
But you sure know so much about like.. errthang :|
 
@KendallFrey JS only have primitive value types - like Java's primitives. ES7 adds value types but that's still a year away.
@SterlingArcher I'm jack of all trades master of none.
 
always so humble :P
 
I want to try Scala
 
@AliceYoung just to be clear - if you're happy coding Java that's great - I don't want to discourage you or diss Java. There is no doubt some amazing software was built using Java and although people are moving from it trends can change.
@copy if you want to try Scala try clojure instead, I don't have any real experience in other LISPs (although Florian really tried to get me to try cL for a year) but it's really interesting. It's... different.
 
I code in many languages. Java doesn't fit the bill in some cases. But it's beyond a doubt the most powerful and most scalable.
 
11:59 PM
@AliceYoung it's definitely not beyond doubt - there is a reason people are moving away from it - like how JetBrains themselves stopped coding Java and wrote a 'compile-to-java' language (kotlin).
 

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