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10:00 PM
@BartekBanachewicz But nobody cares about functional programming features. The problem is that JavaScript has no serious standard library at all, no essential language features (operator overloading, just to mention one) and, well, quirks
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's out, just not in your browser. Just as C++11 might not be in mine.
 
@copy the fact that it's still terrible in general is rather obvious.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum What book is that?
 
@Miszy the rubber ducks on my desk know nothing of your "code" or "languages"
they are all just prototypes
 
but now try telling them that
 
10:00 PM
@Miszy about category theory.
 
I had my run at it already
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum More details? ;)
 
@copy the standard library issue is not really that big of a deal.
 
of course, nothing is an issue if you slap "it's not a problem" on it
 
@Miszy now you're just making me open the University's moodle site -_-
 
10:01 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'd prefer a shitty standard library like PHPs over what we get
 
c++ isn't a real language anyways. It is more like a toy people use when they are tired of writing good code. like JavaScript.
8
 
hi trollemon
 
@rlemon You pretty much won the Internetz, sir.
 
I know not of this troll term you speak of.
 
@Miszy "Types and Programming Languages" by a Benjamin Pierce
Also 'A Gentle Introduction to Category Theory'
 
10:02 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum On my todo list.
 
@copy what're you missing?
@Miszy good :)
 
I'd say working sort but then again, it's not a problem
is it?
 
Is there a good design theme programming websites lean to? (advantages in a specific layout maybe?)
 
if you pay attention to the punctuation I am actually calling both languages toys. unintentional, but totally using it if any c++ fanboys try to lynch me in the parking lot.
 
I want something simple, yet effective but I was never a good designer.
 
10:04 PM
I also don't think that "OMG I have to write function () {} instead of () => {} is a real argument against FP in JavaScript.
 
I want beer
 
@Miszy yeah, it's "not a big deal"
eh.
 
@BartekBanachewicz what is a combinator :)?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum deepcopy, chr, ord, set, linked lists, ordered dict, integer arithmatic
 
going to sleep now, tomorrow I'll have a tough day at school
 
10:04 PM
@rlemon I have plenty at my apartment. Only costs you a one way plane ticket
 
@copy last one is the courtesy of the amazing type system
 
@RUJordan Just make it minimalistic and responsive - that's it.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum in what context?
@Miszy btw
 
@RUJordan well todays headache: I can (using node.js) detect the serial port, connect to it, open it, set myself up as a modbus rtu master, detect the slave ID of the device I want to poll, connect to it.... but I cannot poll it.
 
@Miszy I know that, I'm talking grid layouts
 
10:06 PM
@BartekBanachewicz combinatory logic?
 
@BartekBanachewicz This is all bullshit.
 
@rlemon come over, drink some beer with me, play with my pup, and we'll tackle this together.
Surely you can remote into work :P
 
> 1. It’s not how real companies handle mobile.
hahahahahaha (closed... what a tool excuse)
 
@Miszy perhaps. But then again, there are other views on that.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Obviously, RWD done wrong is a bad thing. Done right is awesome.
@BartekBanachewicz That's about points 2. and 3. in his article.
 
10:08 PM
@RUJordan i'm going home, opening six beers, contemplating contacting the author of the library and paying him for the 2 hours i'd need for him to help me get over the hurdles
 
@BartekBanachewicz "Often, visitors prefer a desktop experience in their mobile browser" -> good RWD is a desktop experience. Just fitted in smaller screen.
 
As a customer, I want a usable website.
 
Edward Six Pack. I've played that game many a times.
 
@RUJordan What about grid layouts?
 
@BartekBanachewicz RWD does not mean limitting your possibilites. Bad designers do that.
 
10:09 PM
Whether it uses flexbox pony magic or just has another version doesn't really matter for me
 
as a consumer -> I don't want to zoom in and out of a shitty mobile experience because I got the desktop view.
 
@monners just trying to design a simple, effective layout for my first website
 
@BartekBanachewicz Of course, implementation details.
 
@RUJordan mobile first makes it easier.
however, for my simple personal site I just added in the media queries after the fact
wasn't too much work.
 
That's what I'm thinking
 
10:10 PM
@Miszy he was talking just about CSS modifications
so that was actually quite important, I think
 
mostly just sizing headers based on devices and removing some flare on the mobile view.
anyways. be back later.
!!afk home
 
@rlemon Why are you leaving me!?
 
IMHO just resizing and moving stuff around is not a replacement for a mobile version, if only because of the touchscreen
 
@rlemon Project I'm on at the moment is the first time I've had the chance to build mobile first. So much pain avoided!
 
@BartekBanachewicz "Responsive design doesn’t truly make a site mobile friendly" -> This paragraph is total bullshit. You don't think “How do we take something that was made for the desktop and make it look okay on a mobile device?”. You start from the mobile. Go mobile first design. That's the key in RWD. I think author just didn't get it or is trying to cover his lack of competency.
 
10:11 PM
So more or less if I design it on my phone (emphasis on more or less) it will be alright
 
@Miszy I can't really see how making a mobile version optimized for touchscreen usage is making it easier to make a desktop version for keyboard and mouse
 
Hell, I might just say fuck it and use bootstrap
 
and that's not only touchscreen
there are completely different usage patterns
 
Mobile first forces you to get your information hierarchy right first as well, which is always a bonus :D
 
that's still buzzwords.
 
10:12 PM
@BartekBanachewicz It depends on the usecase. But most websites should go RWD. Most web-applications should not IMHO.
 
@Miszy there, that's something constructive what I can agree on
 
@RUJordan No!
 
@BartekBanachewicz This chat should be responsive but should also have a touchscreen version. Responsive for the sake of my person watching a tv show on 2/3 of the screen.
 
No, eh?
 
I think the problems of "various browser window sizes" and "various devices" are very different
 
10:15 PM
Is it easy to bank to bank pay somebody online?
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's what some people try to distinguish with adaptive web design and responsive. But these are still only buzzwords.
 
Like, I send you $20, no fees, no bullshit, instant acceptance
 
@RUJordan Yes it is :D
 
@Miszy so stop using them altogether and just make usable websites oriented on what user is doing with them
 
@nderscore try going backwards and building one big string
 
10:16 PM
@RUJordan Do a money transfer? XD
@BartekBanachewicz Exactly. That's the point.
 
That's specific
 
Responsive Design a buzzword? I dunno about you guys but I connect that term to a very tangible thing.
 
@BartekBanachewicz While the article was all bullshit-RWD-hate
 
@Miszy OTOH it was you who said the guy is incompetent for not going "mobile first"
 
I'd honestly be willing to pay somebody to design my website (on paper, I will write all the code lol)
 
10:16 PM
which borders on bullshit-RWD-love
:)
 
Man I see future room owners everywhere
 
@BartekBanachewicz He is for not mentioning it. It's lack of objectivity.
 
@Loktar eh?
 
@Loktar eh?
DAMMIT MONNERS
 
I agree that the guy isn't very reasonable
 
10:17 PM
lol
 
First!
 
But don't go overboard in the opposite.
 
Responsive design and Mobile first development are the best approaches we have at the moment to maximize device compatibility and avoid duplicate work/maintenance. Nothing's set in stone.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Interactive agencies should base their websites on RWD. That is the standard today, sir. It's a different thing when we talk about web-applications.
 
ugh how I loathe RWD
 
10:19 PM
@BartekBanachewicz It's not only devs who embraced and loved RWD. Users did.
 
I want the good ol days of accomidating only the most common screen size
1024x768 baby
 
@Loktar 320x480 baby ;)
 
@Miszy Not everyone, mind you.
 
:(
 
user1596138
@rlemon Oops. Was busy being wrongfully arrested.
 
10:20 PM
@Jhawins rlemon is afk: home
 
@BartekBanachewicz Name one reason against RWD. I mean: well done RWD, not some shitty websites.
 
user1596138
I'm facing up to 1 year in jail, $5,000 in fines and 2 years without my license... Why? Because of a computer system error. It claims I never paid a ticket from over a year ago and long story short that results in a class A misdemeanor.
 
@BartekBanachewicz From the user's perspective.
 
@Miszy "Tell me why a good web page is bad"
 
@Jhawins woah wtf man
 
user1596138
10:22 PM
A computer is literally getting me put in jail on the 11th possibly. If anyone knows a good lawyer in Indiana... I need help..
 
wtf you got arrested holy shit?
so you actually paid the ticket
do you happen to have the receipt?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Usually bad website is better with RWD than without.
 
user1596138
I'm trying to schedule meetings with the prosecutor, Mayor and my judge so I can try to explain the situation.
 
fuck man wish I kept my receipt from my most recent ticket.. thats scary
 
user1596138
@Loktar My Mom did! She went to the courthouse with me and paid it out of her pocket and I paid her back later.
 
10:23 PM
What did you do?
 
user1596138
It's been 11 months... I've moved twice. Fuck no I don't have the receipt :/
 
well you have a witness too so thats good
 
user1596138
Driving on a suspended license, with a prior for the same thing because 11 months ago they said I hadn't paid the same fucking ticket!!
 
@Miszy that's a bold and very unprovable statement
 
user1596138
I've already paid the ticket twice!
 
user1596138
10:24 PM
It was a $25 seat belt ticket that's possibly getting me jail time.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Any arguments against? From the user's perspective.
 
user1596138
@Loktar But.... It's my mom..
 
@Jhawins And your mother paid out of pocket??? Wish my mom loved me that much :P
 
yeah true, but still
 
user1596138
Yeah she paid a $25 ticket that turned into $223 after fines. The first time they said this it was $25, but the fine for driving suspended was $172 and a $25 late fee. So she paid $223 and remembers the fuck out of it.
 
10:25 PM
@Miszy @BartekBanachewicz The horse is dead. Leave it be already.
 
@Miszy actually the only thing I miss is a bit of common sense of beauty... I can get the page to work (just woke up becouse I couldn't left so much undone)
 
user1596138
Basically: KEEP YOUR FUCKING RECEIPTS OR YOU MIGHT GO TO JAIL!! :/
 
@Cicada3301 hm, give me the address again?
 
user1596138
There's much more to the story too though. I think it's happening on purpose... I got the captain in trouble a few years back for beating the fuck out of me.
 
user1596138
^ This is on record
 
10:27 PM
 
@Jhawins I don't think you're going to jail because of $25 fine.
 
@Miszy I think you misunderstood what I said about all that "responsiveness", so let me repeat, perhaps in other words. The website should be usable from every device, in a way takes not only the screen size change, but also usage patterns. If CSS helps you in achieving that, that's great and you should do it. But in many cases it is not enough, so you might still need another changes. I don't disagree with the idea, I think you're focusing on the wrong thing.
 
@Jhawins So don't worry :)
 
it is just like rlemon's site... just with much less design to it...
 
@BartekBanachewicz Now you're completely right, how come?
 
10:27 PM
@Cicada3301 wow I can read the text. hint: use padding
 
in rlemon's case I would remove the canvas element at a certain size
 
@Miszy misunderstandings happen :)
 
but yeah it responds well
 
@BartekBanachewicz FUUUnicorns gonna change it to computerfont now... I used padding... maybe a bit too less
 
@BartekBanachewicz Then again: the author of that article was talking bullshit and didn't know anything about RWD.
 
user1596138
10:29 PM
No. I went to criminal court today. I was the only one not in shackles because I got pulled over by the one good cop we have and he let me sleep at home. Standard protocol for my situation is for me to be incarcerated until my court date on Feb. 11th. I am currently "out on bond"
 
@BartekBanachewicz RWD might be not enough, but you should start with it. :)
 
@BartekBanachewicz doesn't display padding...
 
@Miszy I won't get that into that, because I have no idea about making websites :)
 
@BartekBanachewicz lemme fix... it is the padding-left property of that div, right?
 
10:30 PM
now, I need to prepare for the AKO exam
 
@Cicada3301 You only set padding-right
@Cicada3301 set padding: 1em;
 
user1596138
If I'm out on bond, I don't think it's unreasonable to be afraid of going to jail. They're giving me the same charge as a DUI.
 
Army Knowledge Online?
 
@Loktar Computers Architecture.
 
@Loktar I used the Polish abbreviation
 
10:31 PM
@Loktar You know, asm and coding on a piece of paper. With no computer. Or calculator.
 
user1596138
Class A Misdemeanor. I'm being charged with the same severity as a DUI or an OWI, or Battery Assault. For a $25 ticket over a year ago that I've paid $223 towards so far.
 
hah
 
@Loktar Or common sense.
 
alright home time
o/
 
@BartekBanachewicz Errr, then why are you having this debate?
 
10:32 PM
there
 
user1596138
I'm in deep shit. And I didn't even do anything :(
 
@monners Because the fact that I can't make websites doesn't mean I don't use them and can't tell a bad one from a good one.
@Cicada3301 now add padding to sidebar and margin-bottom to header
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's not a flaw of the development method and design approach, that's a flaw of the design
 
@monners let's talk about assembly instead
maybe then I'll fucking learn that crap
 
@BartekBanachewicz ummm, what?
 
10:35 PM
@monners x86 assembly language
 
@monners That is the only valid response to such request. :D
 
Yeah, I get that. I just didn't see that left turn approaching.
 
push eax
 
@nderscore fun starts with fld
 
jne short FF
 
10:37 PM
@BartekBanachewicz tadaaa
 
@Cicada3301 padding to sidebar, not to header, heh
 
@BartekBanachewicz why can't we have both XD
 
how about .NET's bytecode language (MSIL / CIL) instead?
 
@nderscore nobody writes in it... oh wait nobody writes in x86 asm too
 
ldc.i4.0 // load int32 value '0' to the stack
I've written raw MSIL before :'(
 
10:39 PM
@nderscore I've seen things
@BartekBanachewicz actually ma favourite was shld
 
ldstr "Hello world"
call System.Windows.Forms.MessageBox.Show(string)
pop
ret
 
shld eax, ecx, 20
 
user1596138
jhawins.fuckWith() is what my city must've run
 
@BartekBanachewicz my favourite piece of code ever gist.github.com/mmiszy/8409574
 
oh snap, it's past time to go home!
 
10:44 PM
@Miszy imma steal that
 
@Miszy @BartekBanachewicz I think I've done something wrong: I used flexbox exactly as if it was a table: I divided the sections in rows and columns... is this supposed to happend?
 
also thanks for no comments
that's helpful
makes a great exercise: what the fuck is going on
 
@BartekBanachewicz There: gist.github.com/mmiszy/8409574
@Cicada3301 What do you mean? It works.
 
@Cicada3301 it looks good vOv
 
@Miszy yes it works... but it is identical to a table... even tho I can adjust the width of every cell without adjusting the whole table...
 
10:48 PM
@Cicada3301 What do you mean by "it's identical"?
 
@BartekBanachewicz vOv? hope you're ironic...
@Miszy I divided it in rows and columns to get that...
 
@Cicada3301 So what's the problem?
 
@Cicada3301 with some further work if you resize the page enough the elements should go in vertical. That's impossible in a table
 
@miszy instead of tr I used .row and instead of td I used a simple #hub div div...
 
@Cicada3301 So?
 
10:50 PM
not as if it is a problem.... but quite confuses me...
since I have to add a lot of css, which I wouldn't do with tables
 
but tables can't move around
 
You call 20 lines a lot?
 
I'm sure your variant is the best one between the too... but I still can't figure it out...
@Miszy 20>>0
it's infinitely bigger
 
@Cicada3301 You can adjust the way .row is displayed with CSS according to the screen size or even pixel ratio of the device.
@Cicada3301 You couldn't with tables.
 
10:52 PM
yeah...
 
@Cicada3301 Actually the flow should be the other way round.
 
@BartekBanachewicz i googled vOv: it's a liquor and means victory over violence... is this what you meant XD?
 
@Cicada3301 Build a website which looks good on a small screen eg. an iPhone
@Cicada3301 then add some media-queries to adjust for bigger screens,
not the other way round.
 
or use Chrome Canary (if you don't have an iPhone)
 
@Miszy this should adjust well... other than borders I only used ems
 
10:54 PM
@Cicada3301 It has nothing to do with ems,
 
@Cicada3301 there's still the dpi problem
 
@Cicada3301 I mean flex-direction, widths, height etc.
 
@Miszy well... they're relative to the size of the screen, right?
 
@Cicada3301 No?
 
@Cicada3301 1em font doesn't scale when I resize the page
 
10:55 PM
@Miszy my childhood... ruined...
 
@Cicada3301 They're relative to the font-size of the parent element.
 
OOOOOOHHHHHHH
and I should use jQuery to adjust it to the size of the window...
 
@Cicada3301 If you're looking for widths and height relative to the viewport size then take a look at vw and vh
@Cicada3301 What?
@Cicada3301 I just told you, use media-query
@Cicada3301 IN CSS
@Cicada3301 NO JAVASCRIPT
@Cicada3301 NO JQUERY
 
$(body).css('font-size',$(window).width/150)
or something like that
media-query...
lemme gooogle it... never heard about that
 
@Cicada3301 use vw instead of em if you want to have font-size relative to screen width.
 
10:57 PM
and they correspond to which portion of the screen?
 
@Cicada3301 But usually you don't want to have font-size relative to the size of the screen.
 
@Cicada3301 facepalm
 
@Miszy k
 
@Cicada3301 but you might want to do what @BartekBanachewicz pictured with an image
 
@monners guess why I came here? to learn! :P
 
10:58 PM
@Cicada3301 You're right. Sorry.
 
@Miszy but media query is just like jQuery
 
except it's for media
 
@BartekBanachewicz That was a joke, right?
 
@monners No, that's true.
 
10:59 PM
@monners No, I was completely serious.
 
JQuery("the young and the restless"); // media query?
 
@rlemon You saw that whore again, didn't you!?
 
Ugh, I'm hung over
 
@monners CSS heavily relies on jQuery
 

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