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03:00 - 14:0014:00 - 22:00

3:43 AM
good morning
 
4:33 AM
good morning , it's 6:33 am here.
 
10:04am :)
 
4:46 AM
Morning
 
 
2 hours later…
6:50 AM
I'm doing the insane thing of having the blinds up. I wonder if I'm ill?
 
 
3 hours later…
9:29 AM
hey therr
where's this hangout stuff happening?
 
On hangouts :P
 
haha okay who should I add in my hangout to see whats it all about
?
 
well, someone needs to host the session, and who that is depends. I don't know who's gonna be holding it the next time.
 
okay how are you?
hows your school going on?
 
I'm good :)
I'm not sure how it's going; I'm self studying this course 100%
 
9:38 AM
haha that's great
:)
degree and school basically teach you many things that you dont really require in real life
 
@Smrita Eh, get rid of "really". Schools teaches obsolete technologies on end-of-line machines.
 
10:08 AM
@Unihedro yeah I know haha how are you? are you conducting the hangout session today?
 
Wait, wasn't it over? xD
 
no idea :)
 
I'm just playing Minecraft right now.
 
i used to lovee minecraft
dont play it anymore
 
@Unihedro tried skyrim?
 
10:11 AM
I don't like that game.
 
My school is a career school so it doesn't teach old and outdated stuff; the vaery point of it to teach us what's out there on the market so we'll get a job ASAP
:p
 
Good for you!
 
Well, I hope to get a job before I graduate :p
 
 
10:26 AM
Let's do a random hangouts!
 
I'm game! I think I have a mic too!
 
I don't know how to create one under hangouts.google.com and no one told me how to, so there's one using the API. xD
 
Well, I'm there :P
 
There's nothing to do. xD
 
Seems like it XD
Where's @fge and @SecondRikudo ? XD
 
10:31 AM
Sleeping, probably. xD
 
Probably...
Saturday morning sleep in :P
 
fge
Moo
 
Hey there! :D
 
hiya
 
fge
Hmmso, what's the hangout about? :p
 
10:45 AM
It's about me and uni doing different things so far XD
 
fge
Uh?
 
We haven't thought up a topic
 
I was going to probably write code or something, but I'm just chatting and playing games, so. xD
 
Not sure if neighbor just has a lot of trash to take out in many small turns, or if he's making it an exuse to stand outside my door listening when I sing squints eyes
 
hmmm good question
 
fge
10:50 AM
<-- cannot think of a subject either, meh
 
@fge how about a tutorial on how to create a hangouts session?
 
Xd
 
:O Good idea
 
Present
 
:)
 
11:04 AM
What's up?
 
Everyone doing different things, probably. xD
 
fge
<-- still on JSR 203
Well, if you think of a subject, just tell
 
<-- just stopped playing games, currently reading stuff while listening to music
 
fge
@ItachiUchiha was talking about annotations at some point but...
 
Wanna make a hangout about Promises?
Although if I'm hosting it it would be JavaScript
 
11:07 AM
Promises?
 
that's a JS thing
 
Because I'm not familiar with the java version
 
Java does not natively have types based on futures and promises.
 
It exists in java too, it's called futures
 
... not natively
or in the Java API, actually.
Delays does exist, though.
Oh wait, java.util.concurrent.Future.
Never mind me.
... Which, for some ridiculous reason, extends Response<T>, RunnableFuture<V>, Runnable<ScheduledFuture<V>, ScheduledFuture<V>.
 
fge
11:10 AM
@Unihedro uhno
 
Or I can just do it here in chat, would also be productive
 
fge
Those are subinterfaces of Future
Not the other way around
Learn to read the javadoc :p
 
Wait, really?
Oh, I have the website upside down.
 
fge
The same way that UnaryOperator<T> extends Function<T, T>
A quick reminder on AutoCloseable and try-with-resources maybe? :p
 
Oh, I have a question...
For overloaded functions foo of [UnaryOperator<T> -> ?] and [Function<T, ?> -> ?], wouldn't a call with parameter of value lambda: K -> K be ambiguous?
sorry for the weird notation :p
 
fge
11:20 AM
Uh, where does your question mark come from in UnaryOperator?
 
return type of any
 
fge
A UnaryOperator can't do that
Meh, I was thinking about currying again
 
Eh, consider List<T> foo(UnaryOperator<T> operator} and List<R> foo(Function<T, R> mapper).
A lambda: K -> K is both UnaryOperator<K> and Function<K, K>, so the method call would cause a compile time error for an ambiguous method invocation.
 
fge
No, the compiler will infer that correctly; the most precise wins
 
Oh, is that because of the meta form?
 
11:24 AM
@Unihedro Context?
 
21 hours ago, by Unihedro
Or rather: A suspension is given out when you can't reach the user to remedy their behaviour in diplomatic ways. Something has to be done for users not investing effort to learn or improving over time - timed suspensions are rather light treatments.
We were discussing about a user placed in a timed suspension.
Don't guess who this user is, it's not worth your time.
 
Is he in the room right now? :P
Aha, well, user deletions are an extreme form of handling. If we, as mods/staff came to a conclusion there there is 0% chance of a user to reform and become constructive/productive in the community, we will delete.
 
@SecondRikudo ... Why are you asking me? Ask the room!
 
On most cases, we'd prefer a maximum timed suspension (1 year) over deletion
 
That's like asking "why does my person of interest [action]?", I wouldn't know.
 
11:29 AM
Wow, I really don't like having the blinds up XD
 
> Oh wow, it's such a nice day outside... Today I'm going to play with the window opened!
Considering getting this one :D
 
@SecondRikudo Almost. I messed up my biological clock so I kept feeling that it was midnight. Thought I needed some natural light to fix it... and I found my neighbor across the yard starring at me...
 
@Gemtastic Do something weird
 
I put the blinds down again
 
fge
<-- wonders how on earth an annotation on a type can be useful at all
 
11:35 AM
Yell "pervert" or ask him if you could assist him with anything,
@fge Annotation is too magical for me to like to begin with
 
fge
Yeah, they can very easily be abused
 
He's indoors now
 
fge
But the principles are simple
I can give a quick hangout about them ;)
 
@fge I'm aware of the principle
 
fge
OK, but do you know what a retention policy is, or a target?
 
11:37 AM
@fge type decoration
 
@fge Yeah, and yeah.
 
It was kinda freaky. It looked like he had binoculars in his hand at first so I went into the kitchen for a while, when I came back he had gone back in, but when I came back he opened his balcony door and peeked out, and then he pulled up his blinds indors and has be standing around his window. That's a bit dafuq O.o
 
@Gemtastic Bring out your telescope and stare back at him :P
 
@SecondRikudo I don't have one because I don't spy on my neighbors...
 
@Gemtastic I don't know what goes through your head, by I use a telescope to look at the stars
 
11:38 AM
@Gemtastic I would make and raise a sign "HELLO WORLD"
@SecondRikudo stars? kidding, the sky is too polluted to see any celestials
 
Also, that might make him think I'm interested in him...
 
@Unihedro Not where I live :)
@Gemtastic At which point your SO steps into the picture
 
@Gemtastic then just write "WTF" instead
 
Or "THERE'S SMOKE COMING OUT OF YOUR KITCHEN"
That'll get him to leave :P
 
Or "I CAN SEE MY HOUSE FROM, wait, that's an irrelevant joke
 
11:40 AM
@SecondRikudo The thing is, a lesbian couple might make him even more interested, but I did make a point to hug and kiss him when he got back home. I was alone up until I decided to let down the blinds...
 
@Gemtastic Your use of "him" confuses me in that sentence.
It sounded like you made a point to hug and kiss your neighbor.
 
fge
looks to see whether he is in the Java room
 
@SecondRikudo Didn't I tell you my bf is gorgeous and has beautiful princess hair?
From afar it's easy to think we're a lesbian couple.
I don't really care, except some guys kinda think women are only there for the man's sexual pleasure and then what they see isn't two people already taken but two nice toys to have.. well you get it.
 
I'm not even pretty and I still get subjected to it. :/ I'm glad I manage to surround myself with real men.
 
11:46 AM
It's a really hard problem to solve.
Especially since not all women take it the same way
 
Well, I do my best by only surrounding me with real men.
I can't do anything about my neighbor, but my friends and acquaintances.
 
@Gemtastic Well, you get to pick your friends. So that's good.
 
Most of you in here aren't like that, and if you are you hide it well.
 
But there's nothing much you can do about people in the street, or as you say, your neighbors.
 
Nope.
It's a bit scary when they gang up on you. I got "attacked" for laughs when I didn't answer a bunch of guys making remarks in november.
 
11:49 AM
"attacked"?
 
They launched at me but they didn't actually touch me. Still scary though. What am I gonna do agains 6 guys? :(
 
nods
This is where the police should come in play, but there's nothing much you can do about it on your own
And the situation in Sweden is relatively good in the regard. Lots of people can tell you how things are in countries like India.
 
Yeah, in countries where it feels dangerous to not have crowds of police around. That's insane.
 
The problem we have is mostly with leadership corruption and in-house enemies.
Now we're close to the elections, so all the dirty secrets are emerging
 
Well, yes it's better here, but it's still a scary situation. Noone was around to witness it either so I just kept walking. Even if it's better here, there's still a case of my word against theirs, and not only do they outnumber me, I haven't got the slightest idea of how to identify them; I'm face-blind
 
11:54 AM
I've reached the point where I don't know who to vote anymore, I feel like they're all liars to the same amount.
 
The political situation isn't exactly simple in your country anyhow...
 
The political situation is very simple.
We have problems that need tending.
 
I do vote, but usually I don't vote for anyone. I just vote to use my right.
And to give the parties smaller percentages.
 
Our health system is exploding, our education system is meh, the real-estate prices are insane, living expenses are through the roof
The current leader uses security as an excuse for all other problems
 
And you wanted me to come there? ;P
 
11:57 AM
"Mister Prime Minister, our education system is collapsing!"
"Yes, but Iran will be upon us soon!"
 
(I hope you don't take offense to that. My mom has been to Israel; it's a beautiful country)
 
@Gemtastic I distinctly remember telling you not to come here.
@Gemtastic It is, it really is
 
@SecondRikudo Upon second thought yes ;P
 
It's just not that great a place to live in. Especially since you have a EU citizenship
 
@SecondRikudo I would really like to go visit some day though.
 
11:58 AM
@Gemtastic You'd be more than welcome :)
 
@SecondRikudo :>
 
bye bye o/
 
@Unihedro Where are you going?
 
somewhere without internet :/ i'll bbl
 
12:00 PM
@Unihedro :o
 
@Gemtastic hows your project coming along?
 
nope, I can't live without internet. But at least I downloaded a soundtrack just then, so.
 
Have you passed through the "I should probably get started" phase?
 
@SecondRikudo Slowly >_>
I've made a few drafts for the database 8D
But Yeah, I should kick it up a notch
 
@Gemtastic You mean, a plan for how the tables should look like?
 
12:02 PM
@SecondRikudo Yeah
 
Got anything to show? :P
 
As @fge can confirm, I need some practice :P
 
@Gemtastic No one is born with knowledge.
 
@SecondRikudo True, very true
 
12:06 PM
A terrible parody of the PronunciationManual. xD
 
3 mins ago, by Second Rikudo
Got anything to show? :P
 
@SecondRikudo it's on an analog paper
 
@Gemtastic You were blessed with the technology to turn that analog paper into digital pictures.
Also, explaining what you have in words is also good.
 
@SecondRikudo I was also cursed with laziness ;P
 
I find that forcing myself describe my ideas in words (even by talking to myself), makes it easier for me to organize them
Because we very rarely think in words, we think in images, links, movement, feelings
Organizing things into spoken (or written) words, often helps formulating a solid idea.
 
12:08 PM
I don't think. I go with instincts. I don't organize at all. xD
 
Well, I want to go head on and incorporate everything of the assignment into it (you can pick and choose what functions the application is gonna have based on what grade you want)
But there's still some structure I need to think about. I've been sketching it down on paper but I didn't feel confident about ti
*it
 
fge
@Gemtastic don't do that especially when designing a data model
 
> Several weeks of coding can save you several hours of planning
@Unihedro ^
 
@fge What do you mean?
 
Wait, you mean the other way?
 
12:11 PM
@SecondRikudo I don't understand that quote
 
Also, I mostly code for fun, not to get things done, so... :p
 
I like to have the design done before I start... All features are dependent on the database
 
(If I were to code quickly I would document and write tests in more automated fashions, but currently I do all of those manually)
 
fge
@Gemtastic what I mean is that if you try and design the full model from the get go, you won't be able to actually test it incrementally
This is also why it is important to respect 3NF
3NF models are easily extensible
 
@Gemtastic What I often like to do is abstract the database away from my application
The way I like doing that the most is making a REST API around my data
 
fge
12:13 PM
@SecondRikudo this can also turn out to be dangerous
 
@fge How so?
 
@fge Well, I don't know if we have a communication error here, but when I design what content the DB is gonna store, won't I need to know what features I'm gonna have?
 
It's important to me that the application doesn't care where the data came from
The same Model layer can be applied to database, REST API, user input and test data.
 
fge
Too much abstraction and you easily forget that in ORM, the R matters more than the O
 
@Gemtastic Yes and no
When I do data modelling, I don't think about the features I'm planning as much as I'm thinking about "What data will I need to collect?"
 
12:15 PM
I'm not sure I understand how this relates to what I want to do... How can I design a database without knowing what type of data I need to store?
 
fge
@Gemtastic the data you will need to store depends on your business requirements, and not the reverse
 
Yes, in a way, you can say that your database modeling is dependant on the features you have planned
 
@fge Yes?
 
But in software, what you plan and what ends up happening often don't correlate as much as you want them to.
 
fge
For example, if you need to query which students are in which class, it makes no sense to have a column in the students table which stores his/her hair color; while this looks like an exaggeration, many people do the mistake of storing data which is completely irrelevant to the requirements at hand
 
12:18 PM
I still don't know if you understand me or not...
 
fge
What is more, most ORMs out there also force you to store irrelevant data
 
Do you want me to build the application first before I design the database?
 
fge
Example: Hibernate will require that every POJO has an id, whereas in many situations an id is actually useless
 
@fge an ID column is actually useless*.
 
fge
Depends
 
12:19 PM
There's almost always the concept of a primary key in one way or another
Even if there isn't a specific column for it.
 
fge
Well, no
That's the error everybody makes
 
@fge example please.
 
fge
Example: students, classes, and students in those classes; all three will be separate tables. an id on the latter table is actually useless
 
@fge An ID column, yes.
But the primary key in this case is the studentID, classID pair.
 
fge
12:21 PM
The latter table DOES NOT need a primary key
 
That still has to be unique.
 
fge
No, it's not a primary key, it's a constraint
This is quite different
Worse, with some ORMs you'll be required to define a POJO for this table whereas it actually does not help matters at all
And this is why I use jooq
 
A primary key, conceptually, is what identifies this row and distincts it from any other.
 
fge
Well yes, and does a specific row need to be addressed in a students/course table? No
 
It's not a constraint, it's what, conceptually, distincts this row from all of its sister rows.
 
fge
12:23 PM
--> it's not a primary key
 
I see what you mean.
Well, to be fair, the concept of a link table always looked like a semi-hack to me :P
 
fge
It's central to any database design if you want it to be 3NF :p
 
Not that I've been able to come up with a better solution on my own, but eh.
@fge 3NF?
 
fge
Third normal form
 
Aha
Well, I tend to value the prevention of duplication less and less these days.
That's why I like mongo, despite its problems
Who cares is my DB is 50GB larger than yours? Storage is cheap.
 
fge
12:26 PM
It's not that cheap
Consider that it's not 50 GiB once, but maybe three times or more
 
Storage is cheap.
 
fge
Consider backups, restoration
And the time it takes to make backups and restorations
 
It's computation power that's generally not
 
fge
Storage is cheap, processing it is not
 
@fge I prefer replication to backup, at least in storage's case.
 
fge
12:27 PM
THe problem with replication is that if you have an error, this error is dutifully replicated :p
 
@fge Same with backup
Although, the way I approach mongo is similar to the way I approach JavaScript.
 
fge
Yes, except that with backups you can revert to an older one and replay the journal only until before the error was there
 
It gives you an immense amount of freedom
But you need the discipline to use the freedom to your advantage, and not let it consume you.
 
fge
Well, anyway, for all of these reasons I use jooq and no other ORM
jooq actually, you know, lets me do stuff with my data
 
Alright, lunch
bbl :P
 
fge
12:37 PM
OK, dropping JSR 203 for now, I just can't get anywhere :/
 
:(
RIP
 
@Unihedro RIP?
 
Rest In Peace in peace
 
Yes but to what?
 
project
 
12:48 PM
damn , my internet connection was down.. :(
winter ends with an unexpected drizzle..
 
SJD
1:14 PM
hi. I'm bothering with swing a bit. I'm not using a designer for UI purposes so I'm writing UI by hand, and I have some trouble with that
 
Hi. What kind of trouble?
 
SJD
Well. First of all I have the main JFrame. Inside of it I have a Spring Layout. Inside of Spring layout I have 2 JPanels
Left Panel and Right Panel (45% of JFrame's width both of them so 90% both). The other 10% represents the margins
 
I'm not very used to spring layout. It's rarely used outside gui builders...
 
SJD
welll. I'm having trouble with a silly JList
and with left JPanel. Like trying to set the size and no result (it seems the JPanel is linked to my list which exists inside of it - a list with some random strings)
 
setting the size is the job of the layout manager. so an explicit setSize() (or setBounds()) will fail
 
SJD
1:20 PM
Oh.. is there any solution for this?
 
most layout managers take the size from the preferred sizes of the components. I don't remember what spring layout does. and the panel takes its preferred size from the preferred size of the contents (the jlist)
 
SJD
yes. but I use constraints only for spring layout.
so inside of spring layout is a custom Panel
and that Panel contains inside it a JList. :D
 
If you want two equal sized panels, I'd use GridLayout instead. It's far simpler to use than spring layout
 
SJD
and as I know I can't handle JPanel exactly like a Spring layout.:D
 
and forces the contained components to equal size
 
SJD
1:22 PM
I see
great. thanks
 
you're welcome
The size of the JList inside will still depend on how the layout manager of the panel handles it. I don't remember what FlowLayout does by default. Forcing the contents to the size of the panel would be doable with BorderLayout, if the default layout does not do it
 
1:40 PM
AWESOME
TOO MUCH COFFEE
UGH
 
1:53 PM
Hey all, just a very quick question. Does JavaFX ListView trim strings when added? I try to have a string with insets so I put " " before it but it doesnt show
 
I'm not sure since I don't do JavaFX, and everyone seems to be quiet right now.
 
fge
@Asalas77 no it won't
 
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