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Wes
9:47 AM
\o
 
10:12 AM
Hey @Wes ! How have you been?
 
 
2 hours later…
12:35 PM
@IluTov Oh, I mean, it would still do the eval in the calling scope, so being able to access variables, the local scope private class scope etc.?
Or do I misunderstand your question?
 
@bwoebi Ah, right.
 
And the other advantage is obviously that it'll be able (with runtime support) to generate specialized code paths for extra efficiency.
 
 
4 hours later…
 
1 hour later…
JRL
6:04 PM
really strong initial showing @Crell and @IluTov! Best of luck!
 
:fingers crossed:
@bwoebi Just looking at the test to figure out what you're doing... Eew? My general stance is if you're doing string manipulation of something that is going to get parsed back into a structure, You're Doing It Wrong(tm). I don't know when I'd use this, or for what.
 
 
2 hours later…
7:40 PM
@JRL It's almost surreal.
 
all that green looking so good
 
@IluTov That's why I strongly told you no last minute changes :-P
 
7:58 PM
@bwoebi Good call :D
 
8:45 PM
drumroll
 
@Crell Are you happy looking at the initial results? :-D
 
I'm cautiously optimistic, waiting for the other shoe to drop. :-) I know we're going to get some Nos from people who haven't voted yet, but... this is a good start.
 
You should distract the no-voters by initiating the discussion about asymmetric visibility again!
 
But I want that, too!
 
JRL
9:18 PM
i could distract them by starting another discussion about operator overloads
this time i'll say im proposing R-style overloads. Everyone gets to define their own operator symbols in addition to overriding the existing ones!
and on top of that i'll just casually mention in passing that it'll come with method overloading as if that's a small detail.
oh, i could also say that it'll allow overloading of classes that have overloads in core and extensions, even if the extension/class doesn't enable it. you know, for maximum control for the developer.
actually, it would be kind of fun to design an RFC that is "all the things PHP internals fears about overloads, but that actually exist in very popular languages"
 
JRL
9:36 PM
i actually am considering an RFC after a long time just watching again, though not operator overloads
considering revisiting the never for parameter types
its been a few years and ive looked at it more
and the main argument was that interfaces or abstracts that use it could be well typed in the child, but they couldn't be effectively type hinted
however, after a lot of looking, i actually think and would be ready to argue that's a good thing
an interface that contains a never type is not only saying that this must be retyped in the implementation, but that the interface itself is not enough to type-hint
it's self-documenting that the types in the implementations are what should be looked at, and you probably don't actually want to accept the entire interface, because the implementers may have very different purposes
 
10:03 PM
@JRL Doesn't a never type for a parameter effectively mean "this is dead code"?
If you call it, it will error, because you can never produce a value of that type, and fail the call.
 
JRL
never is the bottom type
so a class method for example, it would mean something like "this type can be widened to anything, but the method cannot be called from this implementation"
mostly it would be used for abstracts and interfaces i would think
anywhere else, it would indeed signify dead code
 
10:38 PM
@JRL Can you provide an example of when this would be useful? If the Interface is not usable for type hinting, why provide it in the first place? This sounds like a hack for associated types.
 
JRL
the ArrayAccess interface
moreover, it is generally useful for interfaces that are more "it must be interactable in a specific way" instead of "it must behave in a specific way"
though it would be even more useful if you could typehint "must be a child of this type", but i wasn't planning on doing that as part of a never parameters rfc
but that isn't a big issue, since both interfaces and abstracts cant actually come in as an argument
 

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