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3:00 PM
@iroegbu So if I want to reduce expenses, I should... quit my job?
 
you could always learn cobol - the jobs aren't as common but tend to fetch a pretty penny
 
Yea, I was thinking of trying to crash course an uncommon language and up my wage that way
But that's more a "in the future" kinda goal... I just need to amp my salary a bit right now, or at least increase my overall income through something
 
@DanLugg Do some freelance?
 
I'm in a get-rich-quick kinda situation, except s/rich/financially satisfactory/
I'm short on contacts for freelance where I'm at now; geographically moved, and such.
Is there an aggregator site for freelance work that doesn't devolve into "MAKE ME EXCEL FILES"?
 
@DanLugg yes, but they usually devolve into "you don't get any customers if your portfolio is empty and your portfolio is empty because you don't have any customers"
 
3:08 PM
good morning
 
@DanLugg lol... if you quit your job, your standard of living will reduce and your expenses will reduce to match your new income
 
@nikita2206 Ah, the old "credit" issue.
Well, I can make my portfolio not-empty, I just haven't updated it really.
 
@LeviMorrison I really dislike the idea of having two tokens for one thing and allowing them to be used in an arbitrary mix all over the place
 
I really dislike having fn mean function but can't actually use it interchangeably.
:/
I think function is just too long. Look at every modern language: they all have the function keyword for good reason… but it's always short.
fn, func, fun
 
3:12 PM
def
 
oh wait, you said modern
 
I would rather not add fn at all than add it just for short closures.
Add it everywhere or nowhere.
 
@LeviMorrison So basically, the whole situation sucks ^^
 
I don't think I'd be okay with fn everywhere and I don't think I'd be okay with having short closures without fn either ^^
 
3:15 PM
:/
 
(I'd be okay with having short closures without anything tho)
 
array_map(function($x) => $x * 2, $input);

// still a lot better than
array_map(function($x) {
    return $x * 2;
}, $input);
 
@Levi Honestly, for easy recognition it's best to have different keywords too, I think.
 
is there a possiblity that the "function" will be dropped for regular functions like public getId()? (in future I mean)
 
My perfect combination to vote yes would be:

1) add fn as synonym to function
2) allow named short functions: fn sum($x, $y) => $x + $y;
3) allow short functions on methods: new class { fn sum($x, $y) => $x + $y; }
4) use ==> instead of =>

* 4 is not that important to me, though.
 
3:18 PM
@iroegbu point is that public is optional currently… we'd then be left with getId() ;-)
 
maybe that shouldn't be optional... Just thinking
 
@iroegbu I really, really hope we don't ever do that.
 
Would the proposed short closure syntax only work for single statements?
 
At least we got the "replace it with return type" issue off the table.
 
@Orangepill I hope not, depends on Levi…
 
3:23 PM
@DanLugg Just don't sell your soul and choose NodeJS
 
@Jimbo I'm already the resident "seems to know what he's doing with NodeJS" developer.
And I'm not pleased.
 
I think it should be limited to a single statement with the implied return.
 
@LeviMorrison why?
 
@iroegbu Why would you ever want to drop it?
The issue is it's long, not that it exists.
 
@Levi are you ignoring me or am I just repeating myself too often with a loud voice?
 
3:25 PM
@bwoebi I don't have anything new to say.
Still don't know exactly what I'll propose.
If it's proposed without blocks I don't think it's fair to vote no on it, FYI. That can be added later.
But if I include it I think it's legitimate to vote no because you don't like it.
So… seems like the best scenario is don't include it and add it later separately.
 
with return types and type hints... adding function in front every single time looks horrible... public function compare(int i, int j) : bool { ... }
 
@iroegbu you may not realize, but this is a bit out of topic. Why not discuss it another time? :)
 
@iroegbu Stop writing public.
Seriously. Writing public there is only hurting you.
 
Mornings
Happy frydais
 
morning
 
3:28 PM
@LeviMorrison yeah, that's not the reason why I'd vote no… Might be a reason to abstain maybe… The issue with using function is far more important here.
 
So… do you not agree with this, @NikiC?
 
oh, we agree. But fn($x) => $x * 2 would be even better.
It's better but not good enough.
 
and ($x) => $x * 2 even better!
 
+1, and being able to define short methods would be even more better (if they auto capture all class's compiled fields)
 
array_map(function($x) => $x * 2, $input);
// vs
array_map(fn($x) => $x * 2, $input);
// vs
array_map($x ==> $x * 2, $input);
 
3:31 PM
@nikita2206 don't know how much of an issue it is though.
 
@nikita2206 hmm?
 
The difference isn't huge, I might be fine with the function variant
 
@nikita2206 you want java-style? meeeh… noooo.
 
I like $closure = fn [name]($x) => statement;
 
Hmmm it's friday... 17:34 (5:34PM) Any Europian drinking already? XD
 
3:34 PM
how's "java-style"? // regrets asking
 
It can be useful pretty often
 
I don't know if I like the idea of having more then one statement in the body though ... single statement with an implied return
 
@marcio I think that's where you spend 3/4 of your time including the right libraries
 
@nikita2206 that does look pretty weird
 
@Machavity and tweaking the infamous maven POM file
 
3:38 PM
$x ==> $x * 2 .. is imo very consise and clean
 
@nikita2206 That looks horrible
 
@nikita2206 that would cause a mass mailing list extinction.
 
@NikiC Based on the mailing list I don't think ==> would pass.
 
@RonniSkansing how do you pass two param? like ($x, $y) ==> $x * $y?
 
They want type information and require () and other things.
@iroegbu Correct.
 
3:42 PM
@LeviMorrison Based on here, the main issue with the previous proposal was the stupid operator
 
@NikiC There was a fair amount of that, yeah.
But there were a fair number of people with other concerns including those I just mentioned and auto-import.
But the auto-import thing will be true of every proposal we make, probably.
 
as the length of a discussion approaches infinity, the probability of avoiding needless bikeshedding approaches 0
 
@NikiC based on there, the problem is the auto importing :/
 
@iroegbu I dunno =] but I really like the scala syntax this stuff
 
3:44 PM
@marcio no, it's only a couple of people who are too butthurt about it, I'm sure majority of people are ok with it
 
which is (x: Int):Int => x + 1 or (x: Int, y: Int):Int => x * y
 
I thought Niki proposed use (...), if push comes to shove that should do; won't it?
 
@RonniSkansing what about return types
okay
 
but I guess there are all kinds of syntax conflicts with that in implementation in php =]
using function would be more aligned with the current way function are handled .. but I do think the ==> is more "cool"
 
@iroegbu I don't think @NikiC said he would propose it, just that it could be done
Correct me if I'm wrong, there.
 
3:49 PM
@nikita2206 I hope you're right.
 
Is there a reason why we need this to happen? What if I want to override class name in my namespace?
 
Hey guys!
Any chance there is a native english speaker in here? :)
 
there are many, actually
 
@roimulia No speako Englisho
 
3:56 PM
any thoughts on using fn as shorthand for function only for anonymous short functions.... named functions/methods could require function
I speak murican
 
Lol
 
I become unemployeed after today :D
 
Hmm... @NikiC, is there a safe way to compile array_key_exists() down to an opcode?
I keep doing if (isset($foo[$bar]) || array_key_exists($bar, $foo)) { hacks in performance-sensitive code
just wondering, heh
 
Isn't ?? Good enough for most cases?
 
not if you want to know if the key exists :P
(rejected because the author didn't know of the perf thingy)
 
4:05 PM
Does anyone have any guide on how Opcache can replace functions with optimized versions?
@roimulia who are you and why are you spamming people to rooms?
 
@Danack I'm not spamming. I'm asking for help cuz my boss looking for a fast deadline and actually my request pretty basic lol
 
just because something is important to you, doesn't make it important to anyone else. If you have a question ask it here.
 
Its 3 lines of translation . And i know that most of the PHP programmers friends are native english speakers(they r no available atm) , So im asking for help here as a fast optimal solution
I know that and i respect that. Thats why i introduced my question without rude attitude
 
> Discussion for all things PHP. Don't ask to ask, just ask.
 
Alright . I need a native speaker that will quick run over this short paragraph , And tell me if i made grammar/structure/generally english mistakes . I know i'm off topic but it would be a total life saver
√ NO ADS √ COMPLETELY FREE
▶ Forgot the cutie's name from last night?
▶Having hard time remembering how you saved someone number this other day?
With Most Recents Contacts you don’t have do scroll all over your contact list and waste time!
Most Recents Contact shows you your most recent contacts with fast options like : ◆Call ◆WhatsApp ◆Message - so you don't have to lose your mind searching your address book!
 
4:12 PM
@roimulia pay a freelance 5$ for a review and edit on upwork or etc
you do not need a coder to help you with reviewing translations in commercial products
 
@RonniSkansing Money is not the issue , its the time . I have about 5 min to show this
 
yea, you can get a skilled freelance translator in 5 min. Good luck with the meeting in 5 mins none the less =)
 
@roimulia it is syntactically correct
it lints
 
@Orangepill Thanks, Much appreciated . Is there a way to keep to logic but shorten this line : Having hard time remembering how you saved someone number this other day?
@RonniSkansing Thanks buddy , I usually do use freelancers but this situation just dosen't fit
 
Having hard time remembering the name of someone you met the other day?
 
4:16 PM
@Ocramius $val = $this->arr[$key] ?? null; unset($this->arr[$key]); return $val; should be fine too.
 
Ever had a hard time remembering the name of someone you met the other day?
 
And potentially faster
 
@RonniSkansing @Orangepill Thanks , I'll combine both of your answers . Have a great weekend you two , And everybody else as well . Stay good :)
 
As unset() is anyway not throwing notices @Ocramius
 
Yea happy friday and good weekend to you too
 
4:26 PM
@SebastianBergmann you closed my POC ticket around expectations :-P
 
@nikita2206 I think that would lead to order issues with 'include'.
 
Anonymous
@roimulia So, after all the php sessions I gave you via skype, I still have to see the $200 or the swift guide from you.
 
That seems abit unappropriate to put in here =/ unless it is a joke.. ?
 
@RonniSkansing No it's not. That guy is spamming for help here.
And then apparently not paying people after he said he'd pay them.
 
@LeviMorrison That was a joke...
@Ocramius No. \array_key_exists() could be optimized ^^
 
4:33 PM
@Danack hmm.. just, out of teh box, it seems abit malicious to annonce a payback/dept thing which could have gone in a privat chat... it is really none of our business... unless spam + work requests, which I understand you have seen enough of from him/her
 
@Danack wouldn't this require a call with FQ name always because 3v4l.org/Fl0mX ?
are you asking this because you want to avoid the 'closure' keyword.
 
@marcio no, was asking about array_key_exists.
And it seems a weird design flaw - the number of times people abuse namespaces to override built in functions is pretty low.
 
@NikiC we also should deprecate namespace function overloading...
 
@Danack the example used a built in function, but this is actually used avoid collision with userland global functions xD
 
$im = imagecreatetruecolor(106, 34);
$red = imagecolorallocate($im, 240, 240, 240);
imagefill($im, 0, 0, $red);
$text_color = imagecolorallocate($im, 80, 80, 80);
imagestring($im, 8, 10, 8,  'captcha is here', $text_color);
header('Content-Type: image/jpeg');
imagejpeg($im);
imagedestroy($im);
anybody know how can I use this ^ in the HTML code ?
It creates a captcha ...
 
Anonymous
4:46 PM
@Sajad The same way you use any piece of PHP code with HTML.
 
Anonymous
Might want to remove the header() though
 
@bwoebi just functions? also, wouldn't you need to deprecate declarations on '\' namespace too and make the global namespace reserved.
 
ThW
@Sajad it generates an image - so i imagine you would want it in a script that gets called from a img src attribute.
 
@samayo and @ThW actually the above code does not work when I use it in the HTML code. it work just if I have a separated script for it
consider I have a <input> and I want to put that photo next to <input>, how ?
 
Anonymous
the.same.way.you.put.a.photo.anywhere
 
ThW
4:52 PM
@Sajad "a script that gets called from a img src attribute."
 
@samayo First of all . If you had something to say to anyone . Even if its not me . Do it private. Secondly as much as i understand your frustration . I have no idea what are you talking about . And if by chance i did something wrong . I would be more than willing to fix it. Just for you to know - shaming is this decade worst disease
and by god why instead of "," im using "." all time time lol
 
@marcio I see no reason to…? Especially I don't want to namespace general "helper" functions for example…
 
heh +1
 
user895378
5:05 PM
> 18% identified “Blu-ray” as a marine animal. It is a disc format typically used to store high-definition videos.
 
Anonymous
@roimulia I'm not shaming you. But you didn't respond to my messages, ever.
 
user895378
> 23% thought an “MP3” was a “Star Wars” robot. It is actually an audio file.
 
I'm willing to bet that there was no "I don't know" option on that survey so people had to guess.
 
@roimulia So you're denying that Samayo helped you ovr skype chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/11?m=22400027#22400027 ?
 
@samayo Again , I hope you are talking to the right guy , I'm always on skype even right now
@samayo I have no reason not to avoid you . I'm an adult. I fix things by talking to running away
 
5:07 PM
btw "Do it private." is how conmen get away with running their cons for ages.
 
we Moved to private to sort it lol
 
@samayo if you still aren't satisfied with the outcome, feel free to discuss it here.
 
"The study was conducted by Vouchercloud.net, a coupons website" I'm sure their methodology was impeccable, and not in any way designed to elicit humorous results that'd get their site linked by "journalists" with low standards
 
@Sajad like <img src="imagescript.php" ..
 
@RonniSkansing oh!!!! I got it now. thanks !!
@ThW I got it now ! :-) tnx
 
5:13 PM
No problem, how does the capture image look?
 
it is a Captcha
for detecting human users
 
Did you write the captcha yourself?
 
@samayo can you please tell me what is that header() ? I mean is when it is useful ?
@RonniSkansing yes
 
cool, what does the image look like? Is it a math test or how do you detect if it is a human?
 
@RonniSkansing this image shows a number (5 digits), and user should write that number in the textfeild before submiting the form
 
5:17 PM
okay =]
 
my favorite captcha is what lichess.org uses - you have to solve a basic mate-in-one puzzle to register
 
@PaulCrovella seems cool
 
pretty clever for a chess site
 
/me just uses a <input name="email" /> that is hidden using CSS
if someone fills that field, it was not a human
 
what?? who can fill a hidden input ?
 
Anonymous
5:22 PM
robots & my robots
 
or browser autofill
 
anything that read the HTML source
@AllenJB true, but you can prevent autofill
 
Anonymous
@tereško with a valid w3c ?
 
why would robot fills it ?! Surely robot leaves it empty, because it want to be unknown ...
 
Anonymous
meh
 
5:24 PM
@samayo autocomplte="off", IIRC
 
bots don't know what to fill and what not to, so they just fill everything a lot of the time - most spam bots are badly programmed
 
Anonymous
314
Q: Is there a W3C valid way to disable autocomplete in a HTML form?

matt bWhen using the xhtml1-transitional.dtd doctype, collecting a credit card number with the following HTML <input type="text" id="cardNumber" name="cardNumber" autocomplete='off'/> will flag a warning on the W3C validator: there is no attribute "autocomplete". Is there a W3C / standards way...

 
and if bot was a custom made, they will be smart enough to bypass even the best tricks
 
Anonymous
except for recaptcha imo
 
5:26 PM
please someone tell me, if I use a hidden input, and check its value on the server, and if it was fill, then it is robot, if it was empty, it is human, that is correct?
 
Anonymous
@tereško Ah, didn't know.
 
@samayo every protection on the frontend is there just to discourage opportunists
if someone is willing to invest time in making a bot just for your site, there is nothing you can really do
 
@Sajad If it was filled out then it's quite likely a bot, if it's not filled out then it's just not filled out. You can never be absolutely certain any way you cut it.
 
@bwoebi I'm not suggesting this should be made. Just illustrating that that's what you're breaking in the end. Every function on the global namespace wouldn't be overloadable anymore.
 
5:31 PM
@Sajad the best option would be to take the "suspicious users" to another page .. probably with recaptcha
problem with captchas is simple: they are fucking annoying
if there is captcha in some for, you will get a lot of people just closing the page
 
@PaulCrovella I got it , thanks
@tereško your mean is this ? stackoverflow.com/questions/3161548/…
@tereško agreed
 
@NikiC So if I propose arrow functions with a function prefix, what do you think about that?
Instead of fn or ^ or \?
I know you think that if I propose fn that it should be for short closures only.
 
@tereško I'm confuse now! it is good to I use a hidden input or not?! a robot can submit the form before filling that input?!
actually I don't like to use captcha, because as you said, they are annoying.
 
posted on October 02, 2015 by nlecointre

/* by JtR */

3
 
but I want to use a safe way. using that hidden input is safe ?
 
5:44 PM
I think you misunderstand how bots work
there is no "safe way"
 
!
 
you should mostly focus on preventing false positives
 
@tereško ok, I meant was this
so you suggest I use a hidden input ?
 
I suggest a hidden input as first layer of defense
 
ok, but what is first layer of dafense ? you mean is both hidden input and captcha ?
 
ThW
5:55 PM
honeypots
 
@samayo Did you get a satisfactory conclusion?
 
any yii2 developer here?
 
6:15 PM
@Feeds I wish I could get through traffic like this.
 
@tereško btw, I found a way for chatting as private. please open this, and enter Room, username, password (I wrote them under on of your answer in the stackoverflow). well, I'm waiting for you in the room ...
 
Anonymous
@Danack Nope. He was just trying to save his face so there was no need for discussion.
 
@samayo shame. btw I really like the stylish plugin for chrome. It allows you to attach notes to people in this chat room.
.signature.user-4156957::after { content:"(owes samayo money)";}
3
 
Anonymous
lol
 
6:22 PM
@samayo did he provide an entertaining explanation of why he 'forgot' to pay?
 
Anonymous
It was either he could pay $200, if not he would help me make a book app in Swift. After sudden 7-10 skype calls, and sessions, he finished his app, and just disappeared. I sent 2-3 reminders, still nothing.
 
@Sajad no
leave me alone
I dont know what the fuck you want from me, but at this point I am getting pissed off
 
@samayo yeah I could guess that. I meant today, after asking you to discuss it in private, did he provide a reason for not paying that will be amusing.
 
@tereško ok
 
Anonymous
@Danack If you read his two posts, he basically denied he knew me. I was like the second most praised person after Allah back then.
 
6:29 PM
1 hour ago, by roi mulia
we Moved to private to sort it lol
 
Anonymous
I really answered fixed his problems too, from header sent errors, to JSON syntax errors, and how to connect to PDO. All the trivial questions, but still .. some of those calls we early in the morning
 
I meant after this.
 
Anonymous
I didn't accept.
 
Anonymous
Not gonna lose another time.
 
Anonymous
He didn't want to be exposed here
 
6:30 PM
Yes, scammers always want to take stuff private, so they can lie with impunity.
 
Anonymous
Mar 30 at 23:06, by sam_io
@roimulia you can hire me :)
 
Anonymous
1 hour ago, by roi mulia
@samayo Again , I hope you are talking to the right guy , I'm always on skype even right now
 
50% up front.
 
I think ultimately I think what bothers me most about Internals is that the important people aren't talking. It's dominated by a bunch of people with essentially no contributions to Internals weighing in.
 
@LeviMorrison which is why I roll my eyes a little when people say that the problem with internals is the lack of community participation.
 
6:41 PM
community !== random person with a php.net account since 1999
 
what is difference between "now" and "right now" ?
 
In the business world? "Now" means anytime in the forseeable future, "right now" means before Friday.
 
@bwoebi Can I get a wording check?
> It will automatically close over any variables used in the expression that are defined in the parent (TODO: verify exactness of wording).
 
parent "scope"?
 
> It will automatically capture by value each variable used in the expression that are defined in the parent scope (TODO: verify exactness of wording).
?
 
Anonymous
6:50 PM
@Sajad almost none
 
tnx
 
Anonymous
If you have English questions in the future, you should ask it here
 
Anonymous

 English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer

Not for the faint of heart or those easily triggered by Englis...
 
Anonymous
@Sajad I mean, good English question. Not, 1 + 1
 
@samayo oh! very good! it is really useful for me
 
Anonymous
6:52 PM
This is the main site
 
Anonymous
 
tnx
 
Anonymous
@PaulCrovella Yeah, that one is much better for @Sajad
 
@PaulCrovella ah, tnx buddy
really and really stackexchange is a widespread website ...
 
Anonymous
 
Anonymous
@Sajad see the lists of all sites in stackexchange
 
ow :-O
ha ha ha, there is a website just for "coffee" !!!
 
coffee is serious business
 
Anonymous
Some people I know can't operate well, without a cup of coffee a day.
 
@samayo that's ridiculous! it is coffee, not liquor
 
Anonymous
7:03 PM
Yeah, but it is addictive. In Eritrea it is a big traditional thing. A coffee takes around 2 hours to make and drink.
 
Anonymous
Mostly, elder women can't go a day without having a coffee, if not they get dizzy spells and much more.
 
Look at this
-1
A: Array of arrays - why I have one more level of Arrays than I think I should?

sdafsadfsadfasdfasdfasdfasdfasPlace var_dump($combinedData); after this line: $combinedData[] = [$columnA, $columnB]; And see what your $combinedData array looks like.

The answer that does not answer the question
and the user hate SO
 
7:59 PM
looks like VW cheating will be making some ripples
 
how is this a bad question when someone thought it was a speed question, not a use case question: stackoverflow.com/questions/32914753/…
 
8:27 PM
@Danack @DaveRandom @JoeWatkins explain yourselves.... im here at phpnw and im only buying drinks for myself...
 
user895378
@Leigh boooo!
 
user895378
Unacceptable
 
@Leigh /me buys you a virtual drink
 
I hate this article: cloudways.com/blog/php-influencers-to-follow many professionals are missing.
 
Hm? Im buying the drinks. Lack of valid drink recipients is the problem.
 
8:32 PM
@Leigh I never said I was going. Dave had a personal thing come up a few days ago.
 
@Danack i feel like letting you off is the wrong thing to do.
 
This looks good github.com/jonsneyers/FLIF ;)
 
You could drink my beer for me, to teach me a lesson?
 
Who is fondling your beard tonignt Dan? Hmmm? IT COULD HAVE BEEN ME
2
 
@bwoebi @NikiC @ircmaxell Any last feedback before I hit the list before discussion? wiki.php.net/rfc/arrow_functions
 
8:42 PM
I thought this was already being discussed on list
 
user895378
@Leigh Is it okay if I just pretend this was meant for me?
 
@rdlowrey you have a beard now? sploosh
 
@VeeeneX yeah saw that on HN, nice! Need to compile a Photoshop Plugin!
 
user895378
@Leigh I don't know if "five days growth" counts as a beard but if you're doing the fondling we'll call it one.
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison I like this one :)
 
user895378
8:46 PM
I'm personally partial to keeping the function keyword like you've done here
 
@Leigh Not officially tied to the RFC, nope.
 
Danack is basically a mini gandalf. Youll have to do better than 5 days to win me over
 
user895378
beard inferiority complex :(
 
@rdlowrey youre still young and hip, woukdnt worry about us greybeards.
 
user895378
I will post mustache pics around halloween.
 
user895378
8:49 PM
Then you'll all see.
 
Will the tips ve waxed i to perfect golden ratio curls?
 
@LeviMorrison just to be completely clear, can you specify in the RFC if block mode is supported or not?
 
Also. Auto correction on my phone was pissing me off. So i disabled it. Now i spell everything wrong
 
@ircmaxell You mean aside from the Future Scope stuff?
> The expr can only be a single expression.
I also say that, but I can directly say "block mode not supported" I guess.
 
oh, missed that part
I think what you say is fine
@LeviMorrison nicely done
I think you have my support on this one
 
8:52 PM
And are we sure we want to use by-value?
This is like our only chance :D
I'm not sure it really matters to me. I mostly use anonymous functions or closures over objects, so… yeah.
 
@LeviMorrison so, you remain with your function keyword? well…
@LeviMorrison yep, that second phrase is fine.
 
@LeviMorrison I think that is correct from my perspective
 
@LeviMorrison Absolutely.
 

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