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// bout to troll
@tereško: what do you think of the new macbook as a machine to do development on
 
@user128268 terrible
it is not meant for people who want to stick things in to the computer (that includes iOS devs too)
 
@tereško As I'm sure you're aware our music tastes don't cross very often, but I thoroughly enjoyed that
@tereško afaict macbooks are designed for people who want to stick one specific thing into their computer, I'll leave the rest of that to your imagination /cc @user128268
 
Guys it's Friday, why aren't you sleeping or going to parties?
 
I am currently unemployed (at last) .. but yeah, I should be getting some sleep soon
 
12:41 AM
technically it's already Saturday in Europe
 
these are the wonderful answers i expected from the troll :)
 
Apple products are for people who don't care how their things work. If you just want your things to work* then by a mac
*until they stop working and you have to pay some spotty teenager to fix it
 
oh shit, how do you feel about florida @tereško
 
@tereško why are you so happy about being unemployed
 
@tereško I thought you recently were CTO of some company?
 
12:41 AM
@bwoebi nope, not CTO, just a developer
 
@DaveRandom believe it or not, people using Apple think that the devices are much simpler, easier and more stylish than the complicated Android phones who are for "nerds"
 
@ziGi because I didn't get more than a week free in about 1.5 years
 
i think the nerd is subjective; a lot of people in my circle will make fun of an iPhone owner for being an "old person"
 
@tereško is that even legal?
 
@user128268 that's just not right. Usually old people use microsoft
:D
 
12:43 AM
I am not entirely sure
 
@tereško want a new job with good vacation policy?
 
I don't like that "america" country.
 
@ziGi weird thing: microsoft actually has more "edgy" cachet in my office than mac products
 
@tereško become a teacher, you'll have like 3-4 months of vacation a year
 
@tereško we employ lots of russians, moldovans, and brazilians who share your opinion
full disclosure: i develop on a mac pro and i'm perfectly ok admitting it
 
12:45 AM
Besides, you people have excessive amount of prejudice against my religious stance
especially in the south
 
what is your religious stance?
i just hate everyone
equal opportunity
 
he's a Satanist
 
"all religions are bullshit"
 
Oh, I was correct
 
i work at a financial firm; their religion is money
 
12:47 AM
@ziGi satanists are atheists with funny costumes (at least laveyan satanists)
 
According to Satanists religions are bullshit and you have to enjoy life to the fullest (so they indulge in orgies etc.)
yeah, I have a friend who's a satanist and he wears mainly black
and is a bit bohemian
 
but, seriously, @user128268 your country is deteriorating
 
sounds like a diseased, at times unbearable friend, and interesting friend
@tereško tell me something i don't know
 
@user128268 which country are you talking about
 
Anonymous
@ziGi emos are not satanist.
 
12:50 AM
I don't think mac's are bad as a dev environment. I think they are pleasant to work with
 
@user128268 hmm ... lemme think ... how about this: female kangaroos have 3 vaginas
 
the thing is, I won't spend money on it unless I work some job where I get enough money that I don't care
 
@tereško i don't want to google that. i want you to tell me if that is actually true
 
yup, it's actually true
.. you asked for something that you don't know
and now you won't be able to forget
you're welcome
 
@ziGi pretty much precisely reiterating my position... they think they are simpler and they are wrong. They are easier for the user but as soon as you need to open the black box you are screwed. And "stylish" is basically the opposite of what I want - I'll take function over form any day. And for the record, I have never felt the urge to dismantle my Android devices, but it's nice to know that if I ever decided to do so I have some hope of putting it back together again afterwards
 
Anonymous
12:53 AM
@tereško why can't you keep your feelings to yourself, and just be happy.
 
?
what did I do now ?
 
@DaveRandom but that's because you think from the technical perspective of it and many people are just terrified of technical stuff and will give their phone to be repaired at a service so that's not a factor for them
 
@tereško i, for one, always welcome your comments on kangaroo/vagina ratios
 
@user128268 which country were you speaking of
@tereško I didn't know it's so cold in Latvia during that time of the year
 
Anonymous
it amazes me how everyone who watches the zeitgeist suddenly starts to ridicule all other religions.
 
12:55 AM
well, I actually cheated, @ziGi : buzzfeed.com/tomphillips/…
 
@ziGi This I have no problem with. My issue is with the implied price tag when I need to give it to someone else to fix
 
@samaYo I personally thought that Zeitgeist was full of bullshit
 
@DaveRandom that's why Apple is known as one of the best marketing companies
 
I have been convinced that all religions are bullshit for as long as I can remember
 
the emphasis is on Marketing
 
Anonymous
12:57 AM
2
Q: Does everyone have a unique set of fingerprints?

msmucker0527Fingerprints are often used by law enforcement to identify individuals, even with a partial print. Are there any cases where people had the same fingerprints? Is there a limit to the number of unique fingerprints that can possibly exist?

 
Anonymous
regarding fact no 6
 
@tereško I know a girl that printed fake money to keep under her pillow because she thinks that when there are money around, it means you are going to get more money
@samaYo I know that the tongue has a format which is also similar to the fingerprint in terms of rarity
 
@ziGi did it have something to do with Secret's "law of attraction" line of bullshit ?
 
@tereško yeah
 
@ziGi i was speaking of the Us where i live and which, obvs, is becoming a decrepit society without culture that epitomizes the root of greed and evil

// doesn't actually believe this
 
1:01 AM
ok guys'n'gals, it's 4AM and I need to get some sleeps if I don't want to wake up again after 2PM
 
@ziGi Maybe, but I have this nagging feeling that the Apple marketing department is now a massive waste of time. It's almost like marketing oil... "Has the fuel indicator dropped off in your car? Buy some petrol." They've managed to turn themselves into a kind of weird necessity (culturally speaking).
 
@user128268 doesn't sound like anything new to me
 
I'll take a Nokia 3310 any day of the week
(which was an awesome phone, btw)
 
Anonymous
 
@DaveRandom I remember watching Tim Cook presenting the Apple watch, and I can't seem to remove the image of his smirk from my head when he presented a few stupid features that were already available on wearables for quite some time, and at the end he said something in the lines of 'And most importantly it can show time' and people laughed and applauded.
 
1:05 AM
@samaYo As someone who has in the past spent a lot of time under the influence of certain things that alter (amongst other things) my heart's regulatory systems, I see some fairly sizeable issues with this... :-P
 
And the way simple features are presented like it's something so innovative by speaking slowly and emphasizing on particular words makes me vomit
 
@tereško you should work with my US company and see if we're all that terrible. maybe just an anthropological experiment for you. have a good night (morning)?
 
@ziGi Weirdly, I actually have less of an issue with the watch that I do with other things, because it's so stupid that it's almost Darwinism... if you're dumb enough to part with that cash, you probably shouldn't have had it in the first place
 
Anonymous
@DaveRandom under the influence of a girlfriend who broke your heart several times :D
 
Although that said, rewind a few years and I'd have said the same about tablets, the answer to the question no-one was asking
 
1:08 AM
@DaveRandom well it might be inherited, that doesn't mean anything
 
Wait, scratch that, I still think that
 
I used to have a microsoft table around 2005-2006
 
@samaYo Err... yeh, let's go with that
 
so I didn't see anything innovative when the tablets came out
it's just that people started using them because it became modern
 
^
Although @ziGi, last year at phpnw I met @ThW and he had something that was actually pretty cool... a surface with a second screen and a proper keyboard that packed down into something considerably smaller than my laptop, it was actually a useful dev environment that was fully portable. I am prepared to admit that I may have been wrong when I see stuff like that.
 
1:12 AM
it's funny to see how when people buy stuff and give a lot of money for it, they try to convince you and themselves that it's good and it's worth the money they gave, that way they convince other people to buy the same thing and do the same thing, and it spreads like a virus
 
Anonymous
@DaveRandom well good thing it was in the past :)
 
Anonymous
but still it was the last thing in my mind.
 
@samaYo Well, technically 15 mins ago is in the past (but it is longer than that) :-P
 
@DaveRandom do you have the name of that device, I want to check it out
@DaveRandom technically everything is perceived with a delay
because to be able to understand the written words, you first have to read it, which introduces delay between the screen and your eyes, then your eyes and your brain, then your brain has to decode and move that information to your short term memory and your brain will decide whether it has to be transferred to the long term memory or not based on how interesting it is and what emotions it promotes
but more or less it's always in the past
 
It was a bog standard surface (as in the MS thing) afair, with another similar sized thing that was just a dumb LCD as the second screen, I'm sure @ThW would be happy to furnish you with the details when he returns (he's in Germany so it's like 4am for him atm)
 
1:16 AM
@ziGi the parallax shit on their site is getting pretty old
 
It's 3 in Germany not 4
but yeah, I'd be happy to hear about it, I think I know what you're talking about
 
@ziGi when the first few iPhones were being released, and they were doing the white background commercials that showed the product and the hand with only the voice and a light, clinking melody, it was genius. that was only because the product was so much further along than anything else
but now, the whole "experience" advertising (and, make no mistake, the keynotes are advertising) is just... i don't know... dumbing
 
Tim Cook: We have this new revolutionary feature which we will present to you today. It will redefine the way you perceive information and attribute it to the more natural human state where background moves in a slower manner than the foreground. I present to you iParalax. The newest most revolutionary feature from Apple allowing you to enjoy Apples crappy products on our crappy website in a much more pleasant innovative crappy way.
 
@ziGi Relativistic physics, in terms of the pure mathematics at least, allows for the idea that you could theoretically travel backwards in the temporal dimension in the immediate proximity of a body which is massive enough. I personally don't subscribe to this view, but I am also a massive pedant.
 
@DaveRandom travelling backwards doesn't mean that you won't perceive it in the past again? What are you getting at?
 
1:22 AM
@ziGi the digital crown though... that was a nice touch
 
^^ this is basically why I don't subscribe to that interpretation. I can't believe that the flow of causality can be altered, a lot of things would break if that were the case
 
to me, that's analogous to the original iPhone keypad. it looked so much like a cell phone keypad
 
A modern twist
on a traditional feature.
They are saying basically, we don't have nothing innovative, but it's nice so buy it.
Same way as diamonds have value
 
@ziGi that's why it's smart
it's a thing watches have
we want you to buy a watch
 
Diamonds are not as rare as people think, it's just that there is a society which keeps things that way
 
1:24 AM
here's why it's a watch, not a screen
 
Rather annoyingly though, it is also possible that the reason quantum and relativistic scales don't seem to marry up is because it's not only possible but it's actually happening, and mass leaks into the "wrong place" so the figures don't add up @ziGi
(I've been thinking about this a lot recently, places where math seems to stop working suck)
 
@DaveRandom you lost me with saying "mass leaks into the wrong place". What do you mean by mass leaks?
 
@DaveRandom i thought we were having an empty marketing discussion about wearables, which will not be a thing in 10 years?
 
I am not a native speaker so if that's some kind of an idiom, I am not aware of it.
I think that if Apple were able to do things that they are doing now but 3 years earlier, they'd have been the pioneers.
 
@ziGi apple have not been pioneers for a long time
they are capitalists; they let the mistakes of the pioneers play out just long enough to make a marketable product
 
1:31 AM
I don't think there's anything wrong with capitalism, as long as it doesn't hinder progress and it stays inside the moral boundaries and doesn't endanger human lives in the short and long term.
 
PHP Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 2147483648 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 1040187395 bytes) in
 
not saying capitalism is right or wrong; just observing that it, and not innovation, is the primary apple philosophy
 
I think about it the following way: Since the group of people who buy those products are investing in a company which does not invest as much in innovation as much in manipulation (that's what I call marketing), the market won't move further. Nonetheless, companies which are competing (like Samsung, Microsoft) there would always be a strive for making something better and that is good because of the competition factor.
However, if they create an oligopolies (monopoly of multiple companies) then things can go really wrong.
My boss bought an iPhone 6 because he thought that the Samsung S5 that I have looks too plastic and it doesn't feel as heavy and stable as the iphone does in his hand. That was his main argument
Also people get scared when they see a lot of functionality which is currently provided on Android phones (especially in the settings menu)
 
@ziGi So, very quickly, the set of equations that describe how very large things interact with each other (the relativistic theory of gravity) works incredibly well, so well that it's hard to believe it's wrong, in terms of predicting things that we can measure. Quantum theory works similarly well at the very small scales. But when you try and combine the two sets of rules there are unresolvable conflicts.
One of the things that's implied by relativity is "black holes", things that have so much mass that space-time becomes so heavily curved that nothing can escape, and it's theoretically possible that the passage of time is disrupted to such an extent that the "space dimensions" (i.e. matter) could move "backwards" through time.
If this were the case - and this is pure conjecture - then observable mass could entirely disappear at this point and reappear "somewhere else" which is already starting to veer into the idea quantum fluctuations, so maybe the reason the two sets of equations don't marry up experimentally is because some of the mass literally just went somewhere else because it "fell" into a gravity well.
I'll admit this is heavily unscientific conjecture, but it is nevertheless what I have been thinking about, of late (and started trying to crunch some numbers but swiftly running out of understanding).
 
I see that my mom for example who is fifty years old struggles to find options in the menus although the phone language is native to her.
 
1:41 AM
@DaveRandom you write highly techincal things very quickly
 
s/write highly technical things/copypasta/
 
@ziGi i don't even know if it's the high level of functionality that's confusing; i think it's the lack of familiarity. that's where apple is genius
they make their experiences just close enough that you can easily transition from one device to another
 
@DaveRandom actually you didn't have to explain the first 5 sentences to me because I have read a lot on the topic as well
 
the only big step was making the transition from windows to OS X between 05 and 08, then you were hooked
controlling the end-to-end experience is very important for flocking your sheep
there was time when people who used rotary dial phones didn't believe that these "button" models would catch on
 
@DaveRandom but you are right, since time is the 4th dimension so mass can disappear and reappear since it can go back and forth inside the 4th dimension, but note that this is basically a theory. No one know what happens exactly inside black holes because physics just breaks there
There is a theory that actually there can be other universes inside a black hole.
 
1:45 AM
this juxtaposition of legit physics talk and superfluous marketing speak is hilarious. you guys are too smart, i'm going to bed.
 
@ircmaxell HashTable reallocation?
 
And for example the spawn of our universe is a 4 dimentional black hole collapsing into a 3 dimensional environment
 
@bwoebi no, string concatination :-)
 
@ziGi Not strictly correct but close enough :-P
 
@ircmaxell ... really :o
 
1:45 AM
yup :-)
 
what are you dooooing…
 
compiling that trie to native classes
 
@DaveRandom yeah I can't wrap my mind around it since I think that if the gravity and mass is infinite, how could there be anything that's moving at all inside of it
 
class S2 extends S {
	public $value = 2;
	protected function __construct() {

	}
}
class S1 extends S {
	public $value = false;
	public $á;
	public $â;
	public $ã;
	public $ä;
	public $å;
	public $æ;
	public $ç;
	public $è;
	public $é;
	public $ê;
	public $ë;
	public $ì;
	public $í;
	public $î;
	public $ï;
	public $ð;
	public $ñ;
	public $ò;
	public $ó;
	public $ô;
	public $õ;
	public $ö;
	public $÷;
	public $ø;
	public $ù;
	public $ú;
	public $Á;
	public $Â;
	public $Ã;
	public $Ä;
	public $Å;
:-)
 
I am not an expert, I just watch and read a lot, but I lack the psychics knowledge
 
1:47 AM
function charToKey($char) {
return $char >= "\x80" ? ($char | "\x81\x80") : $char | "\x80";
}
 
holy…
 
compiled properties FTW
 
@ircmaxell how is this even interpretable?
 
you are abusing PHP, right?
@ziGi why shouldn't it?
 
for the same reason a variable can't start with a number I guess
 
1:48 AM
@bwoebi very much yes
@ziGi [A valid variable name starts with a letter or underscore, followed by any number of letters, numbers, or underscores. As a regular expression, it would be expressed thus: '[a-zA-Z_\x7f-\xff][a-zA-Z0-9_\x7f-\xff]*'](php.net/manual/en/language.variables.basics.php)
 
but mostly because French people would start writing code with their weird accents and things will go downhill really quickly
 
@ircmaxell so finally PHP has found its true stress tests :-)
 
what and why are compiled properties?
 
@ircmaxell what's the longest amount of characters a variable name could be in PHP
 
@user128268 properties which are statically allocated instead of in an array internally.
 
1:50 AM
@ziGi The issue that I have is with the idea that things slip into unobservable dimensions at this point. I'm fine with the idea of there being things we cannot observe, I'm actually fine with the idea of infinity in the sense that there are likely fundamentally unmeasurable things, but the idea that there are imperceptable dimensions troubles me greatly (not least because we presumably have velocity in them?) and seems like a stop-gap for incorrect assumptions
 
@ziGi 2^31-1
 
@ircmaxell I thought we'd use uint32_t?
 
well, then 2^32-1
 
:-)
 
and I don't know (for the record)
 
1:52 AM
shouldn't it be the same size as the maximum size of a string?
 
prob
 
cause if strings are longer than 2^32-1 and you try to instantiate a class using that string it won't work
 
lol
 
:D
 
oh
php -dmemory_limit=3G -r '$str = str_repeat("a", 1 << 31); var_dump(strlen($str));'
 
1:54 AM
@ircmaxell Out of interest, if I decided to do this, would the lexer be able to cope with it? I'm imagining a scenario where I'd need at least double this amount of RAM as I assume it would copy the name into the sym table rather than reading it directly in?
 
guess the output
 
@LeviMorrison I got a formal invite for NWPHP, so...
@DaveRandom I have no idea (my guess is no)
@bwoebi 1
 
@ircmaxell int(-2147483648)
 
/me goes off to try it
 
LOL
 
1:55 AM
seriously.
(5.5, 64 bit build)
 
that's why I pushed for size_t
 
@DaveRandom what makes you think there are imperceptible dimensions. I think there are a total of 11 thought of so far
Even 12 if I am not wrong
 
@ziGi and you can perceive... how many of them, sorry?
 
I think up to 7-8
I think of them as you think of multidimensional arrays with infinite size
 
really? because I'm pretty certain I only ever see 4...
 
1:58 AM
you don't see the 4th
 
I see infinite dimensions
 
you experience it by moving through it without being able to change the direction of it
@ircmaxell you see them but can you explain them?
 
@ircmaxell but Z_LVAL() is always signed… so it'll overflow…
 
yes, every change is a dimension.
@bwoebi yes, except on 64 bit machines
unless you have > 2^63 bytes of ram
 
… yep
And nobody has > 8 EiB
 
2:00 AM
well, I wouldn't say nobody
:-P
 
@DaveRandom 4th dimension is where you have an array of 3rd dimensions, 5th is where you have an array of all possible 4th dimensions (since I think the 4th dimensions array is not infinite, it has a beginning and an end or it might be cyclic producing every single 4th dimension as part of the 5th)
 
@ircmaxell is there a machine on this world which addresses 8 EiB?!?
 
I have no idea
 
@ziGi The ability to alter it is not a prerequisite for the ability to perceive it. n-dimensional mathematics is interesting and gives some (IMHO) strangely useful results, but it's (again IMHO) nothing more than a stop-gap for a better explanation.
 
@ircmaxell sure, multiple machines managing each their own RAM in a cluster, maybe. But a single machine?
 
2:02 AM
@ziGi I get the theory, I just don't think it's an adequate description of nature.
 
maximum by what metric?
 
@DaveRandom maybe a PHP is a stop-gap of being able to tell the computer what you want to happen exactly and not code it and abstract things
haha :D
 
Of course, I am at best an amateur/recreational physicist so I'm quite happy to be convinced otherwise.
 
How much nicer would it be if you could think about classes and objects and visualize them in your mind, and then the code writes itself
 
@ircmaxell In 5 years, maybe… but isn't today a tens of PB of RAM the maximum?
 
2:04 AM
@ziGi That's exactly the point though, that's almost exactly what it is, but I can conceive of all the other layers. It's not veering into the realms of things that are not and will never be observable.
 
@DaveRandom well the problem is that there are many things that we can't currently measure so mathematics gives us some answers but just to a certain point
That's why people are doing those experiments at the LHC
cause it supplies are with more accurate data to how particles react instead of using just theory
 
you guys... you guys are lunatics
 
It's interesting to see how instead of answering the questions that are currently there, even more arise as a result from researching
@user128268 how so?
weren't you sleeping
 
@ircmaxell Hooray! I'll go check too. Thanks for letting me know.
 
"oh, let's have a talk about how PHP handles 32bit ints"
"side conversation: what do you think about the limits of human understanding of dimensions"
let's talk about both of those things at the same time
 
2:08 AM
@bwoebi maximum by what mechanism?
 
wonderful, genius lunatics
 
@ircmaxell maximum used
 
having a variety of topics helps us relax, at least it helps me relax
 
@ziGi No problem with "can't currently", big issue with "will never be able to". The best we will ever be able to do, by definition of being stuck within x-y-z-t, is measure mass/energy deficiencies, and for that is not proof of imperceptible dimensions or any other mega blue-sky stuff, it's just proof that something went somewhere else. Saying that it did it by moving through some other dimension is semi-lazy nonsense. I much prefer the idea that it just moved through t.
 
@ziGi this is an admirable lunacy i speak of :)
 
2:09 AM
who knows...
 
@DaveRandom don't be so pessimistic. People thought we would never fly no more than 150 years ago. There are different levels of human civilization according to Kardashev (Kardashev scale) so I guess if we are able to harness the power of galaxies we can generate huge enough gravity to allow us to rip time-space continuum
 
@ircmaxell I don't have an acceptance or rejection message yet. Nothing up on twitter yet either.
 
Of course I don't argue, we are a 3 dimensional beings and we would always be, unless we are able to evolve in such a way to move in time, then we would be a 4 dimentional creatures and the 5th dimention would be our time
 
the fifth dimension is the expansion of the universe, or ephemeral sense; i.e. knowing someone is behind you when you dont see them, hear them, touch them, smell them... just "feel" them there
 
@LeviMorrison it usually comes in waves
 
2:13 AM
@user128268 are you quoting Interstellar or something?
 
@ircmaxell Yep, yep.
 
@ziGi just bull shitting
 
Sounds a bit like something coming out of Interstellar, something that is mixing physics with human qualities and feelings (like love for example)
 
class S151 extends S {
	public $value = 'T_BOOLEAN_OR';
	protected function __construct() {

	}
}
class S152 extends S {
	public $value = 'T_OR_EQUAL';
	protected function __construct() {

	}
}
class S150 extends S {
	public $value = '|';
	public $ü;
	public $½;
	protected function __construct() {
	$this->ü = S::_load(S151::class);
	$this->½ = S::_load(S152::class);

	}
}
 
Although feelings are generated by biology which boils down to chemistry and then physics eventually
 
2:14 AM
i took AP physics once, got a C, and never considered it again. so take all technical statements with a giant grain of salt. or just ignore them.
 
Sorry guys, but someone can help me with this please?
-1
Q: Query showing the amount per day

Natali TorresI have these registers in mysql (also in postgresql) Venta date amount 01/02/2015 7 10/02/2015 8 10/02/2015 9 20/03/2015 4 20/03/2015 11 25/04/2015 1 So, I would like to make a query where I get the total amount per day and if doesn't exists an amount in the day, display the da...

 
@ircmaxell it's… insanely fascinating what you do with PHP there :-D
 
the minus 1 is probably not a good sign
 
@user128268 maybe you can check out please
 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale link for reference to type of civilisations
 
2:17 AM
@ircmaxell why do you do these sorts of tests? validating language design decisions? i would think practical concerns are moot at this point; if you really need this sort of certainty for pragmatic stuff, given the expert knowledge you exhibit, you'd just go to C
 
@user128268 why not?
 
@ziGi I have issues with this. I accept that manipulating large-scale gravitational effects to move through time is not theoretically impossible, and I even accept that by extension faster-than-light travel (or at least the appearance of it) might be possible - although frankly, you go first - but that is only accomplished by manipulating space and time, not space, time and wtfzomg. in the same way that if I pick up a chair and move it left, up and forwards think I did magic trick.
 
@user128268 two words: for fun
 
i don't have a good answer for that. just wondering if it was like a directed effort to make php better
or just for fun
ok @ziGi for fun is valid
 
Or in other words, inconceivable != imperceptable
 
@ircmaxell is this one of those books that Bill Gates recommends reading in 2015?
 
no idea
 
@DaveRandom faster than light travel is possible. that's why earthquakes, avalanches, tsunamis, and pangaea are all things
 
@user128268 word, lollypop, trains and vitamins. That's how your sentence sounds to me
 
at a certain point in history, the fact that sound traveled was imperceptible
once this fact was recognized and harnessed, radio happened
 
2:23 AM
one of the concepts is that theories follow an arch. Initially they are really simple. They are so simple and orders of magnitude more accurate than the prior theory that they cause a revolution in thinking. Then, over time, errors start building up. And corner case after corner case cause the theory to get more and more complicated. Until the next revolution occurs.
 
light did not travel until it was recognized
 
@user128268 from the perspective of a photon there is no time, it is everywhere at the same time
 
why is the known universe expanding? why is there a galaxy we "just discovered" that has "only existed" for 100 years
because there is a force that we haven't even recognized at this point, and hence have no way to measure or recognize
 
@user128268 you mean 100 million years
 
@ziGi sure whatever
 
2:25 AM
haha appleas and oranges :D
 
@ircmaxell absolutely agree here. But that's not only true in that context…
 
we don't have the thermometer for it
 
you can travel faster than the speed of light without becoming infinitely massive but you have to be able to bend space which means immense amounts of energy to bend the space behind and in front of you
 
@bwoebi in what context?
 
@ziGi your measurements are wrong
 
2:26 AM
@ircmaxell the art of programming
 
because you don't know about soundlighttime
 
There was this Mexican guy who wrote a thesis about it, he got inspired from Start Trek and made the calculations and everything
 
@bwoebi he was talking about chemistry and physics mostly
 
@ircmaxell yes. I know. I just mean that this concept mirrors to many other fields too.
 
ah, yes
which is why it's a good theory :-)
 
2:27 AM
@ircmaxell that sounds like a reasonable explanation
@bwoebi well we try to model things after the real world and nature which is part of it, so I guess concepts and techniques can be applied in multiple fields of science
 
which basically means that "it's impossible to break the speed of light" is only true based on our current understanding
 
Btw cosmological expansion is faster than the speed of light
 
@ziGi so how do you measure it?
 
because there is some border after which the objects that emit that light are getting further away faster than the speed of light is travelling to us
 
and how do you transmit it?
 
2:31 AM
@ircmaxell No, but I have now purchased it and I will read it
 
that is the next dimension
 
@user128268 how do you transmit what?
 
i don't know, if i did, i would have won a nobel prize and i wouldn't be typing here right now
 
@user128268 Not sure how phenomena that are entirely explainable by defined metrics would be dependent on something that cannot currently be defined...
 
@user128268 Invalid query, please try again with more specific parameters.
@DaveRandom I've been wondering about the same for quite some time. That's why they are "theories"
 
2:35 AM
@ircmaxell This. I have issues with the model that will most likely be resolved by defining a new model.
 
or i would have caught the ghosts
@DaveRandom @ziGi tell me what this new thing that you're measuring is. not light, sound, time, 2D or 3D
 
"Infinity" is basically a fancy word for "err, yeh, this is probably wrong but we haven't figured out why yet"
 
what is the unit of measure for expansion of the universe that indicates it is faster than the speed of light
 
(in the context of trying to apply maths to nature, anyway)
/me goes to sleep
nn @all
 
just trying to understand that 8 perceptible dimensions
 
2:38 AM
@ircmaxell Absolutely, whTO͇̹̺ͅƝ̴ȳ̳ TH̘Ë͖́̉ ͠P̯͍̭O̚​N̐Y̡ H̸̡̪̯ͨ͊̽̅̾̎Ȩ̬̩̾͛ͪ̈́̀́͘ ̶̧̨̱̹̭̯ͧ̾ͬC̷̙̲̝͖ͭ̏ͥͮ͟Oͮ͏̮̪̝͍M̲̖͊̒ͪͩͬ̚̚͜Ȇ̴̟̟͙̞ͩ͌͝S̨̥̫͎̭ͯ̿̔̀ͅ
 
I have a good and a bad news. The bad one is that the universe would stop functioning when it reaches maximum entropy and nothing will be able to exist in it, not even atoms. The good news is, we'll be long gone by then, unless we are able to transfer our minds into a more reproducible and easy to copy drive. I guess making Event Sourcing to keep our memories would be much more of a hassle.
@user128268 since there is a red shift in light from the farthest reaches of the universe that we can see, this is a clear indication of the expansion of space (cause photons loose energy when space stretches)
 
hi
 
It's has to do with the Doppler effect (if you remember when a car passes you by and is honking you can hear the sound increasing in pitch and when it passes it decreases in pitch) same thing happens with light
Of course that's quite oversimplified
Additionally to be able to measure it, what they do is they take a volume of space objects that are close to each other and calculate the Hubble volume which gives a ratio between the light deceleration (or speed recession, I am not sure about the proper term) compared to the red shift
 
Should I be eating mushrooms, because none of this makes sense to me right now
 
@taco haha sorry, we started talking about Apple products and shifted to physics gradually, mostly astrophysics
 
2:49 AM
it's cool :d
 
I don't know if eating mushrooms would help you, it might get you quite paranoid especially when reading those things
 
alright, acid then
 
Codeigniter or Laravel and why?
 
I would just watch car pass me by with the honking increasing in pitch
 
2:51 AM
Cheers
@BrianS neither, don't get tied to a single framework
 
why @zigi
 
oh boy you asked the question I couldn't get an answer to that one either lol
I ended up just writing my own MVC thing as an excercise after that discussion in here
 
lol
my PHP knowledge is 6 out of 10, but i want to improve it with learning a frame work as well
 
@BrianS there are many reasons which ircmaxell explains extremely well in his blog, but in summary you use ready code and you expect the framework to work and the people that write them to be programming Gods that don't make mistakes, but there are many architectural flaws with frameworks that I start discovering with time,
and it's much better if you know all the stages that your request goes through instead of having something that you input some configs into it and expect a controller action on the other end to which you could do your CRUD processes
 
@ziGi (yes I should have gone to bed) this also bothers me a little. Red shift definitely indicates that things are moving away, but it may be because space has expanded and it may simply be that space as stayed the same and the things are moving away so fast that the emissions themselves are stetched. In the letter case it's (highly theoretically) possible that some of the things we see are actually sort of echoes of much nearer things a long time ago.
As an extreme example maybe something in the deep field image is actually the milky way, but the matter has at some point overtaken the light. I actually don't believe this is the case but it would be... interesting.
 
2:54 AM
@BrianS also you start getting wrapping your mind around the framework and using what they give you without thinking about how it should actually work
 
really going now, nn
 
@DaveRandom I agree, because moving away is not only in space but in time as well, so the echo theory is quite valid too
enjoy your sleep :D
 
@ziGi I think the thing people like you and the smart PHP guys like ircmaxell forget is people like @BrianS may know a lot less than those who wrote the frameworks, so it may benefit them greatly. But I see the argument from both sides
 
@ziGi honestly i want to be good at creating web application, What do you recommend.
everyone have to start from somewhere
 
@BrianS I'd say just try them both. If you're too lazy to try them, then you might have other problems developing your app
 
2:57 AM
@taco I agree but it's a bit like comparing reading books vs watching the movies. You know it's much easier and more enjoyable watching the movie (Also faster) but at the end you don't develop your brain and the end result is that you forget the movies much faster than books
same with working with a framework and building on your own
 
@ziGi so is better to learn PHP fully and learn how MVC work
 
I agree, but there are alot of bad devs. Nothing you can do about it, so I get the answer you guys give
 
@BrianS I recommend you try to understand how the frameworks work
@BrianS it's hard to answer that question. Knowing how to program in PHP is important but it's different than knowing good architecture and project structure
 
@ziGi now which framework is good to know?
 

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