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4:00 PM
then i'll prob use file_get_contents(). thanks for ur help guys
 
> Logic is the cement of our civilization, with which we ascend from chaos, using reason as our guide.
 
:-/
 
@Isaiah - from the manual: file_get_contents() is the preferred way to read the contents of a file into a string. It will use memory mapping techniques if supported by your OS to enhance performance.
 
@trick awesome, thanks
 
user895378
4:01 PM
@Jimbo Yes. Logic has died. PHP killed it.
 
@ircmaxell I kinda figured that the biggest argument for php7 wasn't mentioned in the rfc, emotional attachment.
 
@Jack I shall edit it.
 
great thnx
 
I'm serious; edit incoming.
 
@LeviMorrison drop a note on internals and on IRC about that when you do...
 
4:03 PM
Will do.
 
Pierre flipped on Nikita this morning for cleaning up structure of the RFC after the vote started
 
To be honest, I'm having difficulty knowing where to put the snippet in.
^^
 
Remove the slander on PHP 6 too.
 
Put it under PHP 6: "To show that PHP thinks logically and is not emotionally attached to their old work. To show that we're able to throw things away and restart." @Levi
 
PHP 6 was highly publicised?
 
4:06 PM
depends on the ruler that was used.
 
PHP 6 pro needs a summary too.
 
php.internals fussed so much about skipping PHP6 in favor of PHP7 that PHP7 needs to be skipped to PHP8 so people dont think it's PHP6
 
sigh, this is funny and sad at the same time.
 
lol so much efforts in naming the next php
 
4:07 PM
They're not exactly doing a great job representing the language right now are they,
 
I was promised a crisis. This is not a crisis. >=(
 
Is it technically reusing 6 if 6 wasn't released?
 
php internals: where the color of grass is up for discussion and version numbers carry emotional baggage
15
 
Random Fun Fact: my phone rings for each RT and fav I get on that
 
@CarrieKendall Please tell me this hasn't been tweeted yet :D
 
4:07 PM
@Gordon mine used to
 
@Jimbo all yours
 
@Gordon rings
 
bingbingbing :D
 
@Gordon Followed you
as well as the obligatory RT and Fav
 
yeah, it rings when someone follows me too ;)
 
4:08 PM
@CarrieKendall Amazing :')
 
what's the deal over php6/7/whatever?
 
@bwoebi what are you talking to derick about? just joined the chan.
 
@Jack Derick seems to think that it would be a good idea to support PHP 5 and PHP 6 in the same codebase
(for exts)
 
[5:57pm] Derick: from the experience with master/phpng, merging from master->phpng isn't a large issue. Don't see a problem with having two different branches and merging up
[5:58pm] Derick: nikic: for xdebug it'd mean two releases, and two of everything; not looking forwards to that (for any extension)
[6:03pm] bwoebi: Derick: yes it will and that’s a great occasion to refactor all the cruft added by the support of multiple PHP 5.X versions out
 
wow
 
4:09 PM
I do see his point. But I don't think it's realistic.
 
for some extensions that might actually be possible.
 
@NikiC agree
 
If he tries to that 70% of his code will be #if
 
but even a relatively small extension like oauth, it would look horrible.
 
exact
 
4:11 PM
either many #if's or a shitload of macros
 
with macros he'll still have 50% #if's
 
I suggested at one point dropping 5.2 support, and he flipped out "you can't do tthat"
(dropping support for future versions)
 
well, nothing new here :)
 
@ircmaxell Isn't 5.2 EOLd?
 
He did say "at one point" heh
 
4:12 PM
@SecondRikudo 5.2 is EOLd so long that I never even used it
 
As in, "It's dead to us and we don't acknowledge that it exists anymore" EOLd?
 
@NikiC lucky you
 
@NikiC Sadly, I'm having to use 5.1.6 today, in 2014 :|
 
actually, yeah, we already have enough #if madness just to support a couple of minor versions.
is it being suggesting to create an api to abstract out another api?
 
@Jack it's not the worst idea...
 
4:16 PM
@NikiC when we began using php, 5.2 wasn't EOL yet… but yeah… began with 5.3.
 
it just sounds a bit inception'ish
 
maintained outside of internals, as a separate header file...
I started using PHP before 5.2 went gold...
 
@SecondRikudo Wow, I thought us using 5.4 was bad.
 
but the intricacies of new array api, zval containers, etc. ... i dunno =/
 
@Jack it wouldn't work for everything, but would take away a lot of the pain
 
4:18 PM
well, what would it work for?
 
yeah, some of the object and exception stuff could be taken care of ...
 
Unforgivable.
 
@Danack omg
 
4:22 PM
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻)
 
Seriously considering sending this email to stop the PHP6/7 RFC vote; please advise.
 
@LeviMorrison Ship it.
 
hmm
 
BREAKING: Dutch military plane carrying bodies from Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 crash lands in Eindhoven.
 
guys I need to encode some stuff to pass through the URL bar [I know, it's dirty but's either that or change how the whole website goes back and forth] I'm now using base64_encode but noticed it takes a shitload of time to load. Is there anyother encode/technique of sorts I could use?
 
4:25 PM
@webarto what the ...
 
@Jack PUNCTUATION, DO YOU WRITE IT?
 
@LeviMorrison don't
 
I'm sensing a gap between crash and lands...
 
@LeviMorrison the author makes a good point that RFCs should be objective (I haven't read it, though)
 
@webarto punctuation fail .. lol
 
4:27 PM
@webarto lol
 
great way to get more retweets, i'll give them that.
 
@webarto lol indeed
 
What's so lol here?
 
@LeviMorrison i don't feel the current content will be good to send.
 
@bwoebi The fact that AP borked the tweet
 
4:30 PM
@DanLugg borked? how?
@LeviMorrison and what should we do then?
 
@bwoebi I'll take it over, rewrite the bloody thing and ask for a vote.
 
@bwoebi wat?! :P read it again
 
@webarto COMMAS, HOW DO I USE THEM?
 
@PeeHaa you mean "crash lands"? … being inspired by all here crying for commas
 
:P
 
4:33 PM
@ircmaxell we will eat now grandma
insert a comma to save a life
 
@LeviMorrison where the voters will be again biased. Then maybe the RFC isn't anymore, but the voters still are.
 
@bwoebi Voters being biased is unsolvable; we can and should fix an openly biased RFC.
 
@Gordon it reads fine without the commas, though.
 
@ircmaxell 2 IMPT CNT CMA
 
I hardly believe that this will change anything on the already biased voters.
 
4:35 PM
@LeviMorrison I don't think that will change anything about the vote. Only cause more drama.
 
@LeviMorrison I'm not on the internals but skipping a version number is just ... why use versioning number if you're going to skip one? :| Appart from that single twitch I couldn't care less ^^ [aka go ahead and send that, empower those internals with adulthood!]
 
@NikiC my point.
 
@NikiC Which is one reason I haven't sent it.
 
@LeviMorrison I agree with your points, but I don't think it would help sending it
 
yeah, let's just pretend that the vote was completely objective and based on the reasons as they were laid out in the rfc and carry on ... no sarcasm.
 
4:37 PM
ultimately it should be said, but asking for cancellation at this point would be bad again...
 
why not cancel it until the majority of people can be professional about it?
 
@Trick that.. actually is a nice idea!
 
@Trick So PHP 2021 it is.
 
To end all convos it should just be called PHP42.
 
@Trick How do you measure the level of professionalosity ... it's a word now ... of a mailing list like php-internals?
 
4:40 PM
right, "yes/no" vote for "i can vote on this rfc objectively" ... 100% majority required.
 
@ircmaxell actually, I'd really prefer a cancellation, but a definitive one. That we vote on such a RFC is fubar by itself.
 
@bwoebi the outcome isn't going to change
 
I agree. I'd prefer that it's developed in a more professional manner, even if it means delaying it, despite the difficulties of expecting everyone to act like adults.
 
Look guys, we can settle this easily. It's clearly going to be the second version of PHP 6, so it should be PHP 12, right?
 
@ircmaxell well, I'm sure community will find itself a name over time. And use that later, whatever is more used.
 
4:42 PM
Just call it PHP 6-II
 
PHP 6, Volume 2
 
6.1
 
> Insanity: doing the same thing (vote) over and over again and expecting different results.
 
I have updated the email to remove some of my own emotion and be more objective.
 
PHP 6-II.2.2 may confuse people.
 
4:43 PM
PHP 6-II: The first person to make an "Electric Boogalo" joke will be SHOT DEAD
 
I think it'd be confusing if a version number was skipped over
 
But 7 is a lucky number.
 
PHP VI: The Roman Numeral Makes it a Different Version, and Yes This Tagline is Part of the Name.
 
#BestArgumentEver
 
Seriously?
lol
 
4:44 PM
@LeviMorrison i think the lucky number harping has to go at least.
 
@LeviMorrison better than last version. Still not sure if good.
 
is it being a "lucky number" actually an argument that's been used?
 
@AlulaErrorpone and 6 a perfect number (as pointed out by @ircmaxell)
 
^ True
I vote for 6 BECAUSE ITS THE NEXT NUMBER
@Trick Yes
 
@Charles +1
 
4:45 PM
I really want to just stop the voting and send this stating why; that may be perceived as overly aggressive.
 
@LeviMorrison good luck...
 
@LeviMorrison Wait, was the voting resumed?
 
PHP6 Reloaded
 
@Charles Yes, it is in voting phase now.
 
And what are those people doing having a say in this? That's a silly argument and I question the judgement of someone who thinks it's valid
 
4:46 PM
@LeviMorrison Really. Do what you think is right. I trust you.
 
@AlulaErrorpone I think v6 is what makes logical sense
 
@Trick The RFC is entirely biased toward 7.
 
Why? Is there some problem with going from v4 -> 5 -> 6?
 
How do you get to vote on PHP stuff?
 
@LeviMorrison I think the response will be, and I think it's a valid response, that you should have pointed this out earlier.
Instead of waiting for the vote to start again and requiring a reset.
 
user1804599
4:49 PM
I vote PHP 7 because it sounds more advanced.
 
> // this comment will not be executed
 
@NikiC The threads were active with complaints.
I did not think I would need to but the RFC was not revised.
 
@AlulaErrorpone I'm probably wrong, but last I checked you have to have commit rights.
 
@AlulaErrorpone contribute to the project
 
^ in bottom of file I just opened after exit();
 
4:49 PM
@DaveRandom :D
 
@LeviMorrison can you show unresolved complaints that support your clause?
 
@Trick Because there was a failed v6
 
@DaveRandom lol
 
What should I contribute to the project? :D
 
@ircmaxell Yeah; think it's worth citing?
 
4:50 PM
@LeviMorrison more than one or two?
 
I don't want to be too offensive or too defensive.
 
@HamZa was this failed v6 released?
 
@ircmaxell Maybe. I'll look.
 
@NikiC Personally I didn't think about the emotional part until I saw Sara and Phil's spat ...
 
user1804599
@DaveRandom // this comment will not face execution, even though it reveals all the secrets
 
4:50 PM
@Trick Not just a failed v6 as @HamZa pointed out, but a failed v6 that was popularized and had books published about it. Anyone that hasn't been paying close attention can easily believe that it'll be the same PHP6, and it won't be. The failed one has huge Unicode changes....
 
@LeviMorrison if so, I'd say that supports the "kill the vote" as discussion wasn't done, and there were unresolved complaints (and then say your piece)
 
@Jack Really? I thought that was obvious.
 
@NikiC I think it's obvious now ;-)
 
@Charles thank you for the clarification
 
Guess it didn't really catch on earlier.
 
4:52 PM
I don't think there is any non-emotional part in this vote ^^
 
@Charles s/easily//
 
@NikiC no, not really. I thought about it, but I didn't expect they were so strongly attached to it.
 
Sara's explosion really shows how deep it truely is...
 
@NikiC Actually I bet most PHP 6 voters aren't emotional here.
 
yeah
 
4:53 PM
@ircmaxell Clearly you have more faith in the common PHP dev than I do. The past dozen people I've interviewed for open positions couldn't even reliably name new stuff in 5.3, 5.4, 5.5 or stuff coming up in 5.6. I have no doubt that they wouldn't know that old-6 was killed.
 
@ircmaxell It appears all of the objections were 'solved' yesterday.
Perhaps you remember I was ill yesterday. I did not check on them.
 
@Charles I do doubt that they even knew 6 was there
 
@Charles oh, I'm also always confusing the versions when thinking about when what new feature was introduced.
 
@ircmaxell A possibly fair point
 
If it's such an issue, why not just put some type of notice in the manual, call it version 6 and call it a day? It's a logical progression from 5.x
 
4:54 PM
@LeviMorrison all of them?
 
@bwoebi same here
 
@ircmaxell Well, some of them aren't resolvable if you know what I mean.
 
was unicode the one big thing left in the mud for the old 6 branch?
 
@LeviMorrison they aren't? and no I don't know what you mean, can you share a link to a post?
 
@bwoebi Over time I just asked them to name a few of their "favorite" features added in 5.3-5.6, greatly simplifies the responses.
 
4:55 PM
@Jack yes, everything else (basically) was 5.3
 
Actually, Pierre's query wasn't resolved, and it was the last in the thread:
> IMO we should just drop all texts, make 3 points for each and move on.
This is ridiculous. A rfc about 6 or 7 has more contents than the one
for phpng.
 
what should we do with these PHP6 questions? Delete them?
 
While he didn't outright say it, he is suggesting that the current RFC is very imbalanced.
It was not responded to.
 
> 214 results
FFS
 
@Charles hehe, I shall now read the change log :P
 
4:56 PM
@Gordon use dd of=/dev/urandom on them. Three times.
 
Where can I find the RFC that's being referred to?
 
I can retag them with php-lega6
 
@ircmaxell right, so a substantial amount of their work was still put to good use ... but i suppose unicode was the biggie then.
 
@bwoebi thanks
 
4:57 PM
@Gordon no, delete them. Make sure they're not in google index.
 
@Jack I keep this link handy to explain it to people that didn't know about what happened to the Unicode stuff: slideshare.net/andreizm/…
 
@Gordon I'd say delete them, there of no future value (assuming properly tagged)
 
@Gordon I dunno, a lot of these are passing mentions.
 
@LeviMorrison if you have a few more of them, perhaps. If not, that's thready (weak)
 
so let's remove the passing mentions where applicable and either delete or mark the others with a disclaimer that this about the legacy version?
 
4:59 PM
@Charles where's the slide that says what happened to the unicode stuff? =p
 

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