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4:00 PM
@rdlowrey hexaphobics?
 
you could argue, that since NEXT is the first major with the new release process, a new major should be used to mark the occasion (considering it is a major accomplishment)
 
user895378
^ Which makes sense
 
Is anyone available to help me outputting a JSON using MySQLI. I believe my logic is incorrect.
 
I worry it'll make PHP look foolish to other languages when we've come so far.
 
user895378
Honestly I don't care what version number is chosen. I have a mild preference for 6 but it doesn't really matter.
 
user895378
4:01 PM
The much larger question is what the hell that new major is even going to contain aside from perf benefits and internal API changes?
 
user895378
No one knows.
 
user895378
So fighting over a name at this time is totally nonsensical.
 
actually, that is a pretty decent justification...
move away from 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,... and move to a different numbering system with the next major... Perhaps start at 10 (since by the release process, we could have a new major every few years or so)
 
nevermind versions, I have a preference that the world around me makes sense ...
 
So... can we have code names now?
PHP 7. Codename PHP 6.
 
user895378
4:03 PM
Enthusiastic Elephant.
 
@JoeWatkins Dude, you're a PHP programmer
You should expect that nothing makes sense
PHP 7 is perfectly consistent with nothing making sense
 
@NikiC so is PHP Splort.0.0
 
Call it PHP 6, but tell people it's obviously distinct from the first iteration because the "P"s have been switched round.
13
 
It's PHP 6'
 
lol
 
4:05 PM
@NikiC that's true ... an abuse of logic, but true ... but lets not abuse logic, or call on the luck value of anything to give our arguments weight ...
 
Hypertext Processorpre
 
11:57 <garoevans> ircmaxell: Some of the input you have on internals scares me!
11:57 <ircmaxell> garoevans: in what sense?
11:57 <garoevans> It reminds me that I know enough to not try any crypto things!
11:57 <ircmaxell> :-)
11:57 <ircmaxell> and I consider myself the same way. I know enough to be dangerous :-)
11:58 <garoevans> You also know enough to know when others are being dangerous; very helpful!
12:00 <ircmaxell> :-)
12:01 <ircmaxell> which is why I went out and sought feedback (both design and code review) for months prior to submitting the password_hash RFC for vote (and subsequ
 
Or Postprocessor
@ircmaxell I know Gareth. I used to work with him :)
He goes to PHP Hampshire @JoeWatkins
In fact he asks me every now and then to apply to his new place.
 
:-)
 
BTW @ircmaxell When Joe does his first talk at PHP Hampshire I will be sure to film it :D
 
4:06 PM
awesome!
I may drag him onto the stage at PHPNW :-)
 
Poor Joe!
 
heh. A few beers and it should work out well.
 
wait, he going to be at phpnw?
 
he hopefully is, I'm told a ticket is coming my way :)
 
@salathe that's what it looks like :-)
 
4:08 PM
Is that irc Gareth is on? I tried to get him in Room 11 a while back.
 
@JoeWatkins Noice!
 
@Fabien yup
 
@Fabien Did you get a ticket?
 
Whaa, no fair... but, yay for you! :D
 
@Jimbo :'(
 
4:08 PM
=[
 
yeah it's not really fair ... but yeah, YAY for me :D
 
@salathe he didn't get it from the organziers
 
@JoeWatkins I wouldn't say so. Out of everyone who couldn't go initially I am glad you got there.
 
so it's still somewhat fair :-)
 
It's fine, I'm just jealous. :P
Not that I make the most of conferences anyway, people scare me... especially PHP devs.
 
4:11 PM
@NikiC why only did I try that on 5.3.3 … -.- And tried to debug with master...
 
@salathe here's a hint: they scare me too :-P
@salathe I really hope you can make it there as well, still would really like to meet you in person...
 
I'm slightly terrified at the idea of going on stage anywhere ... but don't mind if I'm sharing a stage with someone I get on with ... that makes it easier ... I can just pretend I'm talking to them ...
 
I'm scared every single time I go up on stage
 
we can have a Room 11 chat, on stage
 
After the Room 11 G+ Conference
 
4:13 PM
I got four spare seats in my car by the way, and will be driving one end of the country to the other ... if anyone needs a lift, I'll be going past your house ...
 
@salathe and everyone who's not there is invited via video chat?
 
@bwoebi of course!
 
@JoeWatkins @salathe Make him go past your house as well :-P
 
@salathe I can make that happen :-P
 
disclaimer: I'll probably blow up on the way, or something equally disastrous
 
4:14 PM
Room 11 G+ Conference is sponsored by Lusitanian's mother too.
 
@DaveRandom ROFL, yeah come via Edinburgh
 
@JoeWatkins I heard spontaneous combustion is a thing
 
oh yeah that's not really on the way ... that's the other other end ...
I'm tempted to get a train ... it's probably safer than being me ...
 
@JoeWatkins I take it you are on it for hotel now rather than my house? You are obviously welcome at mine but I figured with a sudden large amount of money at your disposal that is now less of an issue :-P
 
@SecondRikudo well. Yep. But usually not in the moments where you're paying attention. More when you're sleeping...
 
4:16 PM
Fly @JoeWatkins There's an airport in southampton
If you book now it's a fair bit cheaper too.
 
but if I get a train, Ill have to travel by train ... which is a huge drawback ...
 
@bwoebi You never know :P
 
@DaveRandom I'm still at yours, I hadn't planned a hotel ...
 
@JoeWatkins Yeh but if you drive, you'll have to drive...
 
@rdlowrey PHP/FI -> PHP/FI 2.0 -> PHP 3 -> PHP 4 -> PHP 5 -> ???
 
4:17 PM
IoW -> Southampton Docks -> Free bus -> Train Station -> Southampton Airport -> Manchester
 
@JoeWatkins OK that's cool, just have to make sure I have informed the misses what's going on or I will get shouted at
 
that's true ... but I'm usually alright at that ...
 
@Tyrael more like "PHP 3 -> PHP 4 -> PHP 5 -> ???"
 
@rdlowrey on the contrary, that is one of the reasons why the next major is still not branched out.
 
user895378
@Tyrael I just think if you're going to skip/change on naming it should be unambiguous. Like @ircmaxell said ... jump to 10 or change to using codenames or something. 7 only causes confusion to me.
 
4:17 PM
@DaveRandom as long as it winds up on youtube, what's the problem?
 
fell asleep on a train once, ended up many many miles past destination, with a fine for having no ticket ...
 
btw anyone who is coming and hasn't yet booked a hotel needs to get on top of that sooner rather than later, there's a bunch of stuff happening in town that w/e and prices are only going to go upwards
 
user1804599
@bwoebi PHP 5½
 
user895378
@Tyrael creating a branch before people have a good idea what should go into it seems like a bad idea to me as well.
 
user895378
@JoeWatkins At least you weren't unceremoniously tossed out of the zeppelin.
 
4:19 PM
@DaveRandom hmmm, I need to look at that
 
@bwoebi just for the correctness sake, there was never php1 and php2, but yeah, if you remove those you have a trend.
 
It was PHP FI at some point, right?
 
user1804599
@rdlowrey It’s a pity that it’s not there.
 
@Jack It was FI at one point, and PHP/FI at another.
 
@ircmaxell I know the Britannia still has rooms, and is about 7 mins walk from the venue
 
4:20 PM
@Tyrael a lot of projects initially don't get semver right. But PHP 3 fixed that.
 
@Tyrael So... (1, 2), 3, 4, 5, (6, 7), 8, 9, 10?
 
@rdlowrey you seem to ignore everything said previously why it is a bad idea to have a roadmap without people executing them.
 
*it
 
@Jimbo dutch elephpant
 
4:22 PM
@DaveRandom I think I have accomodation for the conf itself...
 
@bwoebi I dont think you should use php and semver in the same sentence. I mean we are almost at the point where a minor version doesn't broke BC apart from bug fixes
 
user895378
@Tyrael I'm obviously not suggesting a roadmap should be thrown together willy-nilly without commitments from people that they're actually going to work on the individual parts.
 
almost there
@rdlowrey yeah, we have already seen thrown together roadmaps from people's wishes
 
@rdlowrey php6 originally had commitments... It wasn't until those commitments were found to be unrealistic that the features were rejected
 
@rdlowrey Just out of interest, does Artax (or it's dependencies) cache anything out of the box on it's own, in any way?
 
4:23 PM
@Tyrael "where a minor version doesn't broke BC apart from bug fixes" << may you rephrase that please?!
 
we can open up next-major anytime, and start discussing the release roadmap when we have enough stuff
 
user895378
I'm just suggesting the marketing potential for php7 will be totally squandered if its features turn out to be, "Perf improvements and some other things. Oh, BTW we broke a lot of your old code, too."
 
Hello. I am currently having troubles with my MySQLI code which outputs a JSON format of the query results. However, I am not receiving any JSON output and the only output i am getting is: string(3) "the" string(81) "SELECT ID, NewsStory, Summary1, Summary2 FROM Articles WHERE Tags = ?" Code: pastebin.com/Qi5XuE3H
 
user895378
And as such, "marketing" is not a good enough reason for PHP7.
 
@Tyrael btw. where was 5.6 RC3? Expected last Thursday?
 
user895378
4:24 PM
Without features, marketing is useless.
 
but I don't like the current situation where a bunch of ideas/patches were rejected/withdrawn because there is nowhere to commit to
 
Especially since a significant number of PHP users don't care about performance at all.
 
@rdlowrey IMHO: perf improvments and some santiy cleanup (like @NikiC's variable refactoring, and if we get an AST, etc) would be more than enough
 
user895378
@ircmaxell Not to the huge majority of php users who won't upgrade because they don't care or know enough about perf and sanity.
 
I'd rather have a smaller NEXT, and do NEXT+1 in 3-5 years... Smaller, easier to adopt and more predictable releases are the important things...
 
user895378
4:25 PM
To you and I it's a great incentive to upgrade.
 
@bwoebi have to finish a proposal for loosening up ReflectionClass::newInstanceWithoutConstructor so that it only prevents you from instanitating classes with custom or deny serializer
 
@ircmaxell 3-5 years sounds sensible.
 
@jamesgates1 please put error_reporting(-1); ini_set('display_errors', 1); at the top of your script and try running it again
 
@rdlowrey they don't upgrade because there's no incentive to. That's what GoPHP5 fixed. It got the frameworks and CMS's to push for raising minimum version numbers. And guess what, in a few months, usage of PHP5 skyrocketed.
 
user1804599
Get rid of php.ini in PHP 6. :v
 
4:26 PM
If the frameworks and CMS's upgrade their minimums, the majority of people will as well
 
I'm definitely in favor of smaller, more frequent major releases.
 
@rightfold I would +1 if it was sensable (which it won't be)
 
I'm not sure this quite works, but I spent literally a minute making it so posting it anyway:
 
@bwoebi any update on the circular constant references fix?
 
@LeviMorrison yeah, as long as they are reasonably easy to adopt
 
user895378
4:27 PM
Oh man, killing php.ini would be The Best™
 
@DaveRandom Here is the error, im not sure what to change line 26 to: Fatal error: Call to undefined method mysqli_stmt::get_result() in /home/createyo/public_html/retreiveCustomArticle.php on line 26
 
@Tyrael still no viable idea how to fix it without breaking opcache.
 
@bwoebi those are the last two major issues I know of
@bwoebi can't laruence or dmitry help out with that?
 
@bwoebi Surprise, surprise.
 
@LeviMorrison hmm?
 
4:29 PM
@bwoebi Change something; break opcache.
 
user895378
@JoeWatkins and @bwoebi Do you have any timeframe yet for implementing the standardized XML communication for phpdbg? Because I didn't want to step on toes with the socket things until I asked.
 
@Tyrael Dmitry had no time two weeks ago and last week I hadn't had a lot of time…
 
@ircmaxell this is something we started doing(mostly because of the releaseprocess rfc) but people still not accustomed to it.
 
@rdlowrey dunno who is doing it yet, if bob has no time, I'll do it in about a month or so ... long list, no time, list getting longer ...
 
@rdlowrey Having some group chat tomorrow with them in Skype.
 
4:31 PM
there ya go, bob is doing it ... ask him :)
 
@rdlowrey please do it now.
 
user895378
Okay, then I'll start work on the things we talked about. I know I said I'd do it last week but: busy.
 
@Tyrael Oh definitely, and I see it as a huge win (there have been little hickups here and there, but for the most part it's been huge)
 
@jamesgates1 You are using a version of PHP before 5.3
Which means that you needs to change hosts. Like, now.
 
@rdlowrey meh, you just gave Artax a higher priority^^
 
4:32 PM
@bwoebi ok, so do we have a plan B?
 
@Tyrael ask him now =)
 
@DaveRandom No, just checked im on 5.3.27
 
user895378
@bwoebi the remote debugging isn't expected to work in windows currently, right?
 
@bwoebi feel free to cc me if you need help to persuade him.
 
user895378
If I have time I'll see if I can make that work (or at least sufficiently abstract the API so that windows support can be added).
 
4:33 PM
@rdlowrey no idea, ask @JoeWatkins, he implemented that part.
 
@JoeWatkins garoevans says to let him know if you need any help with the move. :D
 
@DaveRandom I had my hosts create me a custom php.ini. Would that be part of the problem?
 
@jamesgates1 OK well you still need to change hosts because 5.3 is now EOL as well, but that does make the problem considerably stranger. How did you check the PHP version?
 
@ircmaxell agree, changes are dangerous, so release them more frequently in smaller chunks. (which also causes less integration bugs as there is less stuff to integrate)
 
@jamesgates1 Possibly... depends what they did with it
Would be a strange thing for them to start disabling random methods like that though
 
user1804599
4:34 PM
Get a VPS.
 
I think it's more likely that you have multiple PHP versions at your disposal and that code is being run on 5.2
 
have to head home, see you later.
 
@DaveRandom I checked on Cpanel.
 
user895378
@Tyrael later :)
 
@jamesgates1 try doing var_dump(phpversion()); at the top of your script and I think you'll find cPanel is lying to you
 
4:39 PM
"5.4.30"
 
wut
 
lolwut
 
lol
 
That makes no sense at all
 
Do you want to check this: createyourownnews.co.uk/php.php
 
4:40 PM
@jamesgates1 I have no clue what is going on there, I suggest you contact your host. Or just use PDO
 
it makes good sense @DaveRandom
mysql was linked against libmysql manually instead of mysqlnd: lxr.php.net/xref/PHP_TRUNK/ext/mysqli/mysqli_fe.c#641
 
Oooooh
 
That should be a red-box warning in the manual IMO /cc @salathe
 
yeah, likely
seems the procedural version still may exist though: lxr.php.net/xref/PHP_TRUNK/ext/mysqli/mysqli_nonapi.c#898
 
4:43 PM
@jamesgates1 libmysql is, for PHP, the "old" way of doing things (it's the client lib that oracle maintain), mysqlnd is a MySQL client lib that was written specifically for PHP. If you are using libmysql, certain features are not available
 
Good morning!
 
@jamesgates1 try using mysqli_stmt_get_result($stmt) instead of $stmt->get_result()
it may not work, but if it does, there's a bug that needs fixing :-)
 
Just an average day at the office, watched Toad the Wet Sprocket perform in the studio, then hung out with them for a few & recorded a promo for the station :p
 
ah, ok. sigh for using a define half way down the freaking file
 
4:44 PM
I've been listening to those guys for over half my life, heh
 
@Chris nice! I saw them a few weeks ago here in NYC...
 
@DaveRandom OK, so i've changed $result = $statement -> get_result(); to $result = mysqli_stmt_get_result($statement)
Now i am receiving no output.
 
user1642018
hello all
 
@Chris day Monday
 
@jamesgates1 Then you probably have a syntax error, but it won't work anyway. You'll have to do the horrible way of fetching results which the stupid bind thingy
I really highly recommend you switch to PDO, though
Home time, bbl
 
4:50 PM
Bye
Thanks for help
 
The imitation game.
 
user895378
5:04 PM
@DaveRandom Did you have a chance to look into that E_NOTICE I was getting when making back-to-back DNS resolution requests when using MemoryCache in the client?
 
@Fabien DAMMIT. Why can't that be playing in the US
 
user895378
@DaveRandom OIC nevermind
 
@rdlowrey when I read MemoryCache I somehow expected to see some shared memory system (like shmop)… not that primitive thing.
 
user895378
@bwoebi I would probably have named it ArrayDnsCache but whatevs
 
user895378
5:15 PM
SUPER-PING!
 
@rdlowrey I'd have not created that class at all, but use that "cache" by default. That doesn't even deserve the name cache.
 
user895378
function __construct(DnsCache $cache = null) {
    $this->cache = $cache ?: new ArrayDnsCache;
}
 
user895378
Much easier to use the same interface than to switch between isset lookups with an if check every time you use the cache.
 
@ircmaxell You'll get it the 21st of November. Benedict Cumberland-Sausage is a favourite actor of mine too. Especially as Kahn.
 
user895378
I enjoyed the #Cumberbrag humble-brag tweets when that hashtag was a thing.
 
5:19 PM
:-)
 
@rdlowrey no, no. I would use that arrays as a primary "cache", always and then transparently use the passed cache as secondary cache.
 
user895378
Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah makes sense.
 
user895378
Check out the big brain on Bob!
 
@rdlowrey hmmm? :-)
 
user895378
 
5:24 PM
is using debug_backtrace(false) still considered a bad design to get the callee of a function? and what about performance?
 
@Gordon for what purpose?
 
@NikiC to avoid having to write fn(__FUNCTION__)
 
@Gordon actually a function shouldn't depend on its callee's name…
@Gordon or why wouldn't you need it except for debugging or logging?
 
@bwoebi building a file path in a unit test. convention would be fixtures/class/method/fixture.ext
 
@Gordon IIRC all backtrace creation is a performance burden but I've never tried to quantify it.
 
5:33 PM
@Charles it's not so bad. range(0, 200 * n); should be worse than backtracing an n levels deep stack.
 
Morngin room
 
@PeeHaa Sorry, this is the PHP room, not the morngin room.
 
@Gordon btw. in unit tests that's valid… it's not production code…
 
@Charles Eeeeek wrong room
 
@bwoebi It'd be interesting to actually try and measure it... remind me in about two months.
 
5:35 PM
@Charles uh. why not now?
 
@bwoebi Deep in refactoring and trying to not lose The Zone(tm)
 
^^
 
@bwoebi agree
 
@Charles uh. even range(0, 20 * n) is worse…
200x debug_backtrace() #depth 1000: 1.12874794006348 seconds
200x range(0, 20000): 2.74991679191589 seconds
function f($i = 1000) {
    if ($i) {
        f(--$i);
        return;
    }
$t = microtime(1);
    for ($x = 0; $x < 200; $x++) {
        debug_backtrace();
    }
print "200x debug_backtrace() #depth 1000: ".(microtime(1) - $t)." seconds\n";
}
f();

$t = microtime(1);
    for ($x = 0; $x < 200; $x++) {
        range(0, 20000);
    }
print "200x range(0, 20000): ".(microtime(1) - $t)." seconds\n";
(Actually, with phpng, range() should be much faster alone because it doesn't need reallocating)
 
@bwoebi It's worth noting that debug_backtrace became half as slow between 5.0.4 and 5.5, while range only became a quarter as slow.
And yes, I know this because I still have two machines running 5.0.4 in production.
 
5:50 PM
@Charles mh… that's master I tested against btw.
 
and thanks for offer of help ...
 
You can tell him at PHP Hampshire if you like :P
 
@bwoebi true, but it still needs allocating ;-) Whereas xrange is fastest yet (at least for allocating) ;-P
 
@ircmaxell I just wanted to compare two realistic things… array creations and insertions. To show that debug_backtrace() work is relatively marginal. Most time is effectively lost on array ops.
 
5:59 PM
ah, fair enough
plus copying all the arguments and objects around I would assume...?
 
@ircmaxell well, set the flags…
 
@bwoebi it should also be faster if you pass in false
 
in this case it's just one int, so not costy.
 
@Gordon no, as we're not in object context. Should be slower as there is an arg more to parse here.
 
6:03 PM
@PeeHaa haha, have you noticed sneijder in the back?
 
oh. ok.
 
yeah after some time :P
 
Anyone want to look into an interesting front end problem?
 
Define interesting. Define look.
 
@Enijar You mean that SQLi vuln you people still haven;t fixed?
 
6:14 PM
No it's something harder. Much harder
 
i am trying to catch all types of error in WAMP, but its not working

an example from php.net dont work either
try {
echo inverse(5) . "\n";
echo inverse(0) . "\n";
} catch (Exception $e) {
echo 'Caught exception: ', $e->getMessage(), "\n";
}

error message: ( ! ) Fatal error: Call to undefined function inverse() in C:\wamp\www\about\b.php on line 114
 
@Fabien not here.
 
@NokImchen copy the entire example
 
this is their entire example:

<?php
function inverse($x) {
if (!$x) {
throw new Exception('Division by zero.');
}
return 1/$x;
}

try {
echo inverse(5) . "\n";
echo inverse(0) . "\n";
} catch (Exception $e) {
echo 'Caught exception: ', $e->getMessage(), "\n";
}

// Continue execution
echo "Hello World\n";
?>
 
6:23 PM
@NokImchen and you can't "catch" errors, only exceptions. What exactly are you trying to do?
 
ok, its a long story, i am making a proxy testing app using PHP (not curl). Its for educational purpose. I am using SimpleTest's simplebrowser

$browser->useProxy($proxy);
try
{
//Go to proxy homepage
$html = $browser->get("http://ip.my-proxy.com/");
echo($html);
}
catch (Exception $e)
{
echo ("Err");
}
 
While not exclusive, a search for "thanks in advance" yields many close-worthy questions.
 
I just don't like SOAP or XML-based APIs. I don't even see the virtues that make some people diehard fans of it. JSON for API data is so much easier to interact with.
 
@Chris Some languages and IDEs have tooling that abstracts away the SOAPy bits and gives you real, local objects to work with. This can greatly ease their implementation in those languages.
 
@Chris I don't find anything problematic of non-SOAP XML message bodies. The XML model is more robust and has long supported schema validation.
Other pluses include not being retarded about things like comments.
JSON is great when the client is JavaScript. It's great in other cases too, but outside of JS I think it starts losing some appeal.
 
@Chris until you leave your little planet. But for little planets, it works. And SOAP most likely seems overhead to you then.
 
6:53 PM
JSON definitely has its shortcomings, but I don't like EzXML in php, and as you point out, JSON is easier to work with in Javascript. In addition, json_decode provides much easier-to-consume data structure than the somewhat unpredictable (to me) Dom-ish thing you get from an XML structure. It just occurs to me that if you're developing an API that has a wide audience, you're building in the most flexibility by going with JSON.
 
user895378
@Chris Validation is the killer feature. Comments are nice. And it's enterprisey. Otherwise I <3 JSON.
 
user895378
Using JSON if there's no javascript in your app is silly IMO.
 
Context matters =]
 
@Chris If you're developing an API that has a wide audience, you're building in the most flexibility by going with several message formats
 
@Chris You misinterprete the wide audience with actually a certain smaller one I assume.
 
user895378
6:55 PM
If you're dealing with enterprisey API users then XML is a very good choice because validation.
 
and interoperability.
also SOAP is for object storage and retrieval. JSON won't cut here much in the long run.
 
user895378
@Chris And @ThW's FluentDOM is sweet for dealing with XML.
 
Is interoperability a genuine argument for XML? Is there a platform or system out there that is genuinely incapable of dealing with JSON? Or is it rather that services are written to use and expect XML because of impetus rather than technical capacity?
 
It's sweet like sugar.
 
user895378
But the real trick is allowing the API user to specify whether she wants JSON or XML in an HTTP Accept: header ;)
 
6:57 PM
^^^ Accept: all/thethings
 
@Chris There is no defined mapping of concrete objects (types) onto JSON.
 
ThW
@Chris only if you ignore Xpath
 
At least not an interoperable one.
 
oooh, thanks for that DOM lib... I like DomDocument, but damn y u no getElementsByClassName
 
@Chris well you should take a look into the CSS3toXpath lib he wrote.
 
6:58 PM
@Chris y u no queryselectorall
 
XQuery is for those who wish harm upon themselves useful.
 
@PeeHaa I don't always querySelectorAll, but when I do, it isn't with DomDocument
 
user895378
@ThW I point everyone I encounter who deals with XML to FluentDOM, BTW.
 
PhpCss FTW
 
ThW
@rdlowrey :-) thanks
 
7:02 PM
@rdlowrey What do you think about the trick of putting the format as a file extension? path/to/api[.fmt]?all=things
 
in a world with mime-types, who needs file-extensions?
 
user895378
@Chris that's such a rabbit hole for me ... I believe that if you're writing an API for programmatic consumption the file extensions should be eschewed completely.
 
Maintaining the extensions is like some peculiar throwback to transparent file-serving.
 
user895378
If browsers will consume it then you probably need the extensions because you can't expect humans to manually negotiate their content type preferences via HTTP request headers
 
ThW
@Chris not good if you want Rest (you get different URLs for the same resource)
 
7:04 PM
also for mirroring reasons, file-extensions can make sense. however for an API, the endpoint should only exist once per session and then disappear afterwards.
 
user895378
/widgets/519 is the resource. Whether the representation of widget 519 is made via XML or JSON has no bearing on the 519-ness of widget 519.
 
user895378
So the Universal Resource Identifier is /widgets/519 with no file extension.
 
@Chris usually just adding extensions to images. (I certainly won't provide either a png or a svg version, that's pointless.)
but for APIs I agree with @rdlowrey
 
but then I have to ask: what if an image API?
^^
 
ThW
@hakre: btw I am currently using Xpath in JS, too.
 
7:12 PM
"Security lay on our system like a moldy and moth-eaten blanket; a complete afterthought, a layered cake made of obscurity, naivety, and children's wishes. If there were any serious attempt to compromise this system, it would surely succeed. The only consolation is that we collect data of no conceivable interest to anyone, including us. It would be unfathomable that anyone extend anything but an accidental effort to obtain this useless and outdated collection of bytes."
^^ discussion about one of my long-inactive startup projects. I agree -- thinking about refusing the contract. It isn't that much money, and the owner does not care.
 
Is anyone able to point me to a page to show how to implement custom values into queries in PDO. For example in a select where query?
 
How the hell do you search on github for two terms, exact match. E.g. "foo bar"?
 
You guys ruined me: 3 years ago, I'd have let him pay me to make bad code :p
 
7:24 PM
@ThW yes, me, too. I also change the prototype of DOMNodeList to have it more in my way ;) querySelector... is nice, too in JS.
 
@ThW too much magic :)
(gosh I said that for JS code)
Actually I sometimes use JS, then I watch a crockford movie and then I feel like a JS pro but actually I'm somewhat on the level of Netscape 2.01 Gold generally when it comes to webtech.
 
class foo
 {private chain() {return $this;}
  private chain2() {return $this;}
  private doIt()
   {$this->foo = 'bar';
    return $this;}
  public yayThisChains()
   {return $this->chain()->chain2()->doIt();}}
 
@PeeHaa Awesome. Thanks for that.
Sir.
 
:P
 
ThW
7:34 PM
@hakre I am wondering how does querySelector() support namespaces?
 
@PeeHaa Can you help me build some software, sir? You are very knowledgable.
 
@ThW puh. don't ask me :) perhaps only for XHTML, and then this is in CSS3 Selectors IIRC.
 
I don't build software @LeviMorrison. I dick around and hope something will stick
 
Thank you for your time sir.
 
ThW
Yeah but I see no way to provide the namespace resolver
CSS 3 allows for prefix|ncname
 
@PeeHaa I write software with my dick and hope nothing sticks.
 
I know you do ;)
 
TMI, sorry
 
> In CSS, namespace prefixes are declared with the @namespace rule
 
@PeeHaa I hate you
 
7:40 PM
I'm sure when it would have been called PSR-X everybody would just love it
 
ThW
@hakre that is for the CSS file, but I can no find anything for querySelector()
 
Also @DaveRandom guess who found his phpnw ticket in his mail today? :)
 
ThW
so not usable for xml with namespaces
 
@ThW only for arbitrary, isn't it?
 
ThW
@hakre xml and xmlns might work, but all others need to be resolved
 
7:51 PM
I guess the lack is intended. In CSS2 namespaces was not a requirement for UAs. And as this is the query API, they most likely kept it that way as of lacking implementations.
 
Eh, I decided not to chime in on PHPNG merging into master.
@ircmaxell Ping.
 
@LeviMorrison 4 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 0ms
 
what's going on?
 
I'm working on a very short survey to send to the PHP webmasters here at BYU.
Do you think we could successfully pull off a wider survey to more PHP users, and if so what good would it be?
 
7:58 PM
I think it could be pulled off, as far as what good it would be, I don't know
what are you looking to gain from it?
 
What's the survey about?
 
I want there to be at least one question that covers each of the following:
1. How do you use PHP currently? (Like, is it mission-critical to your department, do you only use it for a few admin helps, etc?)
 

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