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12:00 AM
I just finished chapter 5 and 6 of Domain Driven Design by Eric Evans. I had some questions, specifically about factory/aggregate relationships, as well as the context and placement of services.
First, as far as I understand aggregates are objects, but they are not class instances. The construction of these aggregates is delegated to factories in order to avoid manually building aggregates. Suppose in one part of your application you have an object which has 5 objects related to it.

In one portion of the application, you need only 3 of these other objects, but in another you need all 5. Do you write seperate factories for each case? Seperate methods on the same factory? Or, do you simply write a factory which always returns an aggregate with all 5 pieces?
If it is one of the first two cases, how do you avoid conflicting aggregate result object structures?
 
Are your instances cheap or expensive? Do you merely want three, or is it important the other two aren't used in some contexts?
 
@tadman I assume even if the other instances are cheap it would be bad practice to create them if they're unused. It seems...wrong...to do so.
 
Depends on how cheap and how often you'd call this factory method. If they take no effort to produce and you call it infrequently, why care?
 
And by extension, this same question extends to the object itself. Do we always populate an entire object from the repository even if we only need one property? Etc.
 
If they're heavy to construct and take a lot of resources obviously you'd pay very close attention.
 
12:08 AM
@tadman So, in the case that they ARE expensive, what would you do?
 
If you have expensive objects, why not make a proxy that can instantiate on demand (lazy instances, possibly singletons)
 
@tadman Because that breaches the modularity of the aggregate.
I.E. the client must know what pieces are intrinsic and construct the needed aggregate on its own.
 
How so? A proxy that behaves the same way as the real object is a good way to pass over a "cheap" object.
 
I think I may be confused on what you're suggesting.
 
Maybe it depends on where you're dropping responsibility. If it's up to the caller to decide on what objects they need, they can instantiate them directly.
If you're making a convenience method that returns 3 or 5 of them in one package, that's another story. You're making decisions on the caller's behalf.
So the question is: Who's responsible for determining if they need all five, or just three?
 
12:11 AM
@tadman The book seemed to say that that is the entire point of factories.
 
Factories are like opinionated constructors, yeah.
But even then, they don't make all the decisions. The caller needs to invoke them, for example.
 
@tadman Well, and the caller needs to know the properties of the resulting aggregate.
 
How do you define the properties?
Loose contract? Class definition?
Duck-typing expectations?
Some kind of reflection built-in?
 
@tadman What I mean that is if the caller is asking for a car with the explicit purpose of checking the engine...it needs to know about the engine, and where it is.
 
How would you express that in code is what I'm asking.
 
12:15 AM
$car = CarRepository::getById(1);
$car->engine->checkEngineOil();
 
That's basically duck-typing.
You have an expectation that the engine property is present.
Getting more formal you could make a class or abstract class to express that as well, as an example.
 
Am I doing that wrong? Should aggregates have repositories or should I ask the repository of the aggregate root for that object then pass the resulting object to a factory?
@tadman The engine property is an instance of the engine class.
 
I'm not sure you're doing it wrong. That all depends on the philosophy you're adopting here.
If it's by "contract", and getById is expected to return a Car and that is expected to have an engine then you can do that all through documentation. You can also do it by formal class definition.
 
@tadman I should explain more. I'm trying to learn DDD.
 
So figure out where you want to be on the sliding scale from "don't care" to "must conform to a given specification which will be verified through testing and reflection".
In languages like Java and C++ you really have no choice, they're rigidly formal.
 
12:21 AM
At least while I'm learning, as far over to the latter side as possible.
 
PHP you can kind of ease up and do whatever you want, if that's desirable. Or not!
 
@Allenph using real world objects for any OO design is usually a bad idea. objects in the real world don't act in OO ways.
 
@Danack Revenge of $dog->bark(), yeah.
 
I need examples of where you'd use events in a real world application to decouple two components
 
@Danack Are you referencing my car example?
 
12:22 AM
@Allenph yes.
 
I think the criticism there is the CarRepository doesn't return an actual car, it returns a description of a car.
 
@Danack I just thought of a much better example of where I'm confused. Hold on.
 
No, it's that OO languages aren't good at describing real world objects.
 
Try and sketch together something as a gist or a codepad fragment. Most of the time trying to use your own design quickly exposes if you're on the right track or not
 
$user = UserRepository::getById(1);
echo $user->posts[0]->body;

$post = PostRepository::getFirstPostByUserId(1);
echo $post->body;
This is where I'm confused.
Where do you draw the line between grabbing everything associated to an object, and getting the specific object you want in context of the related object?
 
12:27 AM
That implies $user aggressively pre-loads all posts?
 
@tadman Exactly!
 
Rails gets away with a lot of crimes against object-oriented design because it can trap that method, turn it into a proxy, and load data invisibly.
PHP has a much harder battle: $user->posts() for example.
To explicitly load it.
 
...Which is what Eloquent does.
 
Smalltalk-based languages can do a lot of dark magic behind the scenes. Trying to emulate them directly can be a problem.
If you're going down this road of design, then posts has to be a proxy to something in the PostRepository domain.
It's like a magical little bundle of factory methods that can interpret what you're asking into actions.
 
I.E. it's not eager loaded, it becomes a method like Eloquent.
In which case...it should go in the model service anyway.
 
12:31 AM
Method or property that's just a proxy object, either way.
 
This should just be in the model service regardless, huh? The object should just be the user. Not its relations. If I want to the posts, I can ask the service. The service can proxy through the Post repository.
 
If you want to do $user->posts() you can create the proxy on-demand.
You can also get a little nuts and use __get to intercept and rewrite.
 
@tadman In DDD I would create an instance of the User service and call the method on that, right?
 
So you have options.
There's no one way, there's lots of ways that can be justified.
 
@tadman Objects aren't supposed to have methods outside of their setters and getters for their own intrinsic properties, I thought.
 
12:34 AM
I'd use DDD as a tool to rule out bad designs first, then try and steer towards good ones seccondly.
 
This leads me in a loop, because now I don't understand why I would even need an aggregate ever.
 
What do you mean by "aggregate" in this particular case?
 
@tadman DDD is a paradigm. The whole idea is to pick a standard way.
 
Your Repository pattern?
 
@tadman A phone number is a standalone value object.
A user has a phone number.
 
12:36 AM
Maybe!
 
Always in a normalized DB?
 
It might also be a collection of phone numbers. Or an object that allows you to make calls.
But you can't confuse data with representations of data.
Or encapsulations of data.
 
Gah! This book confused me more than it helped me.
 
In DDD terms, if I'm expressing this correctly, "aggregage" objects are simply objects with objects in them.
 
Yes.
 
12:37 AM
So yeah, User is the root object, posts is some kind of proxy.
 
Okay.
 
Since it's impractical to load all posts, that has to delegate to something else.
 
Under that statement.
When do I use the aggregate, and when do I use the user object and service?
 
What would your user "service" do?
 
shouldnt their be made bounded contexts and aggregate roots before diving in?
 
12:39 AM
$userService = new UserService(1); //Instantiates the service under the scope of user 1.
$userService->getFirstPost();
 
Is that a "user" or a "user service"?
Also why is getFirstPost a method?
 
@tadman It's the service.
 
That...does what?
"Services" users?
 
Performs a unit of work in the context of a user.
 
You need a more concrete example.
 
12:41 AM
That looks bizzarre
 
Someone (not the book) told me objects should not have methods on them.
 
That's value objects.
 
Other than setters and getters.
 
Not objects in general.
Value objects are intended to be pure data.
They don't concern themselves with presentation or relationships or how to serialize into a database. They're just dumb containers.
 
So it IS acceptable to have a bagillion methods on the User class?
 
12:42 AM
Where your user class might have an associated UserData object or something of the sort that holds the values, sure!
 
So the user class itself kind of IS the "service".
 
kinda - the concept is "aggregate"
 
And it gets constructed with a data object.
 
In DDD "service" is more of an abstract thing unrelated to any particular entity or aggrgate.
Like a service that purges old data, or a service that checks server load.
 
@Ocramius Yeah. That's most of what I was confused about. Aggregates were getting fuzzy for me.
I'm coming from Eloquent, so.
 
12:44 AM
Eloquent takes some liberties, as I'm sure you're aware.
 
I was told active-record is Satan.
And to learn DDD.
 
Yeah, well, there's lots of schools of thought, each with their various pros and cons.
 
An aggregate is a "subject" on which you act, and it controls all of its internal state mutations by exposing API that is domain-friendly (the methods are actually domain interactions, not technical interactions)
 
(I think it is Satan...it's impossible to have a flat object spanning multiple tables.)
 
Active Record is just one enterprise data pattern.
My coworker jokes that ActiveRecord confuses the concerns so badly that in the car metaphor, Tire is something that goes out to the shop, buys itself, and installs itself on your car.
 
12:45 AM
@Allenph an aggregate can span across multiple tables...
@tadman I want such a Tyre
 
@Ocramius That's a good way of boiling it down.
 
^ persistence is not really a concern (=
 
anyway, nn. What an uselessly exhausting day
 
Now ActiveRecord makes life super easy if you can deal with the limitations. If you want a more pure approach, .Net MVC has much more formal separation between model data and repositories.
Depends on how much enterprise juice you want to chug. You'll bleed UML if you drink too much!
 
12:51 AM
UML?
Oh.
Never mind.
@Ocramius PEace.
I think I'm starting to understand now.
This is not THAT much different than what I've been doing,.
 
I think you're on the right track. Don't get in to deep! Take it by degrees.
 
INSTRUMENTS LOADED
finally
@bwoebi “attaching requires that CoreFoundation.framework is in use by the target”
 
1:46 AM
@NikiC @bwoebi USE_ZEND_ALLOC=0 means random segfaults apparently
 
2:20 AM
mrning
 
 
1 hour later…
3:33 AM
Mornings
 
3:55 AM
Hey there! Can someone point me a library/framework for file system basic operations? Like copy/move/delete/etc folder and/or files? Maybe with possibility to filter subfolders or similar?
I've tried googling around but either my google fu is not strong enough or my luck was not with me this time
 
4:22 AM
Any Magento one if can help with this one
0
Q: Magento 2: Mix & Match Product with Buy More Get Discount

Ankit ShahI have 10 different simple products. If a customer buys any of 2 (among 10) then it will be 5$ price discount. If a customer buys any of 3 (among 10) then it will be 10$ price discount. So among 10 products on basis of Quantity user gets the discount. Tier pricing is only used for that pr...

Thanks a lot for ur time
 
4:34 AM
@kelunik Yeah, I took care of it.
 
4:57 AM
@Andrea Off and on it does mean that yeah
 
5:24 AM
!!dad
 
I've just been diagnosed as colorblind I know, it certainly has come out of the purple
 
5:34 AM
@NikiC @bwoebi Can we just make that transformation internally and support arbitrary default values? github.com/preprocess/pre-parameter-loaders/blob/master/tests/…
@Trowski +1
 
@Andrea I never ever have read that error message…
@kelunik what we should do is actually whitelisting side-effect free functions for usage in static scalar expressions.
 
5:55 AM
@bwoebi Your SO answer is confusing. You're talking about dependency injection should be used instead. If you have a parameter that accepts another instance, you already use DI.
 
@kelunik note that the answer is regarding generic expressions, in particular variables. [not just simple side-effect free function calls]
 
I don't care about variables there.
 
Yeah, then:
 
@bwoebi You can't tell whether a call is side-effect free or not.
 
2 mins ago, by bwoebi
@kelunik what we should do is actually whitelisting side-effect free functions for usage in static scalar expressions.
 
5:57 AM
^ Whitelisting certain functions doesn't help my use case.
 
@kelunik well, you have to whitelist that internally.
@kelunik no? why not?
 
@bwoebi Or do you mean just all function calls by that?
 
@kelunik well, everything which will return an invariant output given an invariant input.
 
@bwoebi Ok, so new SocketPool won't be possible?
 
right.
 
6:01 AM
3 mins ago, by kelunik
^ Whitelisting certain functions doesn't help my use case.
 
Well, then I strongly disagree with your use case.
a static value (i.e. also default values) should always be the same value.
Not a new instance.
 
morning
 
It should just be syntactic sugar for if ($param === null) { $param = ... }
 
@kelunik yeah, no.
@kelunik Also $param ?? $param = new Foo; is already pretty short
yeah, you'll need to type the var name twice … but oh well. no.
 
6:28 AM
@Andrea when do you get that error message?
Also did you have set DYLD_INSERT_LIBRARIES=/usr/lib/libgmalloc.dylib and USE_ZEND_ALLOC=0 as env variables to your program?
 
moin
@Ocramius i think you forgot to reply due to all the tweeting :D
 
6:46 AM
how do I set an arg in zend_execute_data?
 
@Gordon doing a fcall?
 
more details please?
 
arguments are placed in zvals right after the zend_execute_data structure
i.e. ZEND_CALL_ARG()
 
I am doing a zend_call_arg to intercept an array passed to a function. when the array is not set, I want to init and set it so the original func call uses it
 
@Gordon yeah, then ZEND_CALL_ARG() is what you need
 
6:49 AM
but how does that work when the array wasnt passed. its an optional arg.
I get null from ptr = zend_call_arg. when I try to array_init that ptr and write into it I get segfaults
 
you need to compare against ZEND_CALL_NUM_ARGS(call)
@Gordon ZEND_CALL_ARG won't give you NULL???
 
it wont?
 
@Gordon no?
 
var_export does not export a parsable string representation of stdClass objects – #74672
 
hi, lxr.room11.org/xref/php-src%407.1/ext/date/php_date.c#3234 in this location, when we are doing a ZVAL_COPY_VALUE, why is it necessary to do Z_ADDREF_P.
 
6:55 AM
@bwoebi pastebin.com/ee5v6RXG does that make more sense?
 
@Gordon nah, you need if (ZEND_CALL_NUM_ARGS(zend_execute_data) < 3) { ... }
 
but how does that put the array into zend_execute_data then?
 
@Gordon also, you want to call array_init() on arg
 
yes, sorry, typo'ed. it does that on arg. but segfaults.
 
it … segfaults?! there?!
 
6:59 AM
it segfaults either at the array_init or when I try to write into the array. not sure
 
mornin
 
Good morning.
 
what is the actual use of define('ENVIRONMENT', 'production');?
 
mornin
 
@ShibinRajuMathew to indicate that the environment is a production environment
 
7:01 AM
sorry what is production environment means?
 
@ShibinRajuMathew the environment your customers will use. the public facing servers.
 
@Gordon well, from the snippet I've seen it shouldn't though
 
@ShibinRajuMathew Try to use google for those kind of questions. First result: "Production environment is a term used mostly by developers to describe the setting where software and other products are actually put into operation for their intended uses by end users."
 
morngindszdsfvdsgfdgjrekgh54
 
In software deployment, an environment or tier is a computer system in which a computer program or software component is deployed and executed. In simple cases, such as developing and immediately executing a program on the same machine, there may be a single environment, but in industrial use the development environment (where changes are originally made) and production environment (what end users use) are separated; often with several stages in between. This structured release management process allows phased deployment (rollout), testing, and rollback in case of problems. Environments may vary...
 
7:04 AM
ok.. Then how this helpful to handling errors in codeigniter?
 
Good mornings.
 
@bwoebi the thing I still dont get it is how I'd put the array_init(ptr) thing back into zend_execute_data
 
@ShibinRajuMathew in a shitty framework, like codeigniter, it would be used to check, what type of logging to use
 
@Gordon but … arg is part of the execute data…
you are operating on a pointer into execute data.
 
ah, makes sense
 
7:06 AM
in more modern applications, the logger would be injected as a dependency via DIC, based on whether development-stage or production-stage config has been loaded
 
@ShibinRajuMathew Because of different error handling. In, let's say in production environment, you don't want all log to be written such is info log, while in development environment you need every piece of information to conclude what is going with newly added code.
In dev mode you want output of errors and in prod mode you would like redirect to 404 or 500 page.
 
@Gordon need to go now, but can help you in a ~3 hours.
 
@bwoebi thanks
 
ok thanks to everyone..
 
@tereško 's love for CodeIgniter is unmeasureable. :D
 
7:08 AM
@Tpojka I have used it for more than a year (in the past)
 
@Gordon and you'll obviously need to increment ZEND_CALL_NUM_ARGS() if you define that arg then…
 
ok. will try
 
This example probably best illustrates my beef with callee type-checking. Why shouldn't I be able to create an obje… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/869361406726082560
 
@tereško I found your very usefull unswers and comments on SOF (and thank you for those), that make sense of how PHP framework should/can be used. First FW to me was CI but latelly I am exploring Laravel mostly.
 
my condolences
 
7:10 AM
For Laravel?
 
this should illustrate the general attitude
 
mornin
 
Pretty dead chat room.
I saw that Laravel uses lot of Symfony there.
What is your draft: Slim, Zend?
 
the best option is to actually just assemble what you need from composer's packages
 
Well, I used composer in CI2. In CI3 composer is added to CI configuration. Will see. :)
 
7:16 AM
@bwoebi thanks again, incrementing the call count did the trick <3
 
@Tpojka no, I mean, you get a routing library that you want, then you pick a DIC, that you want, choose a templating library, etc. .. then wire them together
 
Bigger picture as in a nutshell. I will try it, I hope.
For now, I am trying to comprehend what ever is done in different frameworks. Because I can't know what is good until see the bad things too. ;)
 
@Tpojka You worked with CI and are now using laravel
that's as bad as it gets :P
 
morning @PeeHaa
 
o/
 
7:20 AM
@Tpojka you won't see anything new in Laravel, since it is a spiritual successor or CodeIgniter
 
Good morning.
After CI, I liked concept of events/listeners, observers etc.
 
moin
 
hey joetastic o/
 
Mornin tereško,PeeHaa,JoeWatkins
 
7:24 AM
o/
 
@Patrick Well, starting using FW (CI at a time) was motivated with fact I don't want reinvent the wheel like security, sessions and those core things.
 
\o
 
hi, lxr.room11.org/xref/php-src%407.1/ext/date/php_date.c#3234 in this location, when we are doing a ZVAL_COPY_VALUE, why is it necessary to do Z_ADDREF_P. So, when I use zend_hash_str_add, which goes to lxr.room11.org/xref/php-src%407.1/Zend/zend_hash.c#607, should I also manually call Z_ADDREF_P
 
7:26 AM
@Tpojka thats what packages are for, not frameworks...
 
I find the "don't reinvent the wheel" argument annoying and misleading
 
@JAamish I think it's for garbage collection
 
a wheel is like a package
the framework is the car
but frameworks need to be able to do everything, so the car is a sports car, truck, bus and everything else at the same time
 
@Gordon Ah Okay. Since I shall be doing a zend_hash_destroy, then I do not need increment the reference, is that interpretation correct?
 
or you could build your own car specific to what you need from the available parts -> thats the no framework approach
 
7:28 AM
it's always necessary to addref when you create a copy of a zval
hashtables can have their destructors set to something other than zval_ptr_dtor wrapper, which is why when you add to a table, you have to make the decision to addref or not depending on the dtor of the table
if it's a normal table (array_init for example), you should addref when copying into table because the dtor is set to a normal zval_ptr_dtor wrapper like function
 
> "Framework: A product with the business logic removed but all the assumptions left in."
11
 
@JoeWatkins Since I'm using a HashTable *, and I do not have any specific destructor set, then in this case I need not add reference
 
how did you init the table ?
it's probably a bad idea to have a table of zvals that are not refcounted
if some other part of the engine destroys a zval and you try to reference it after, bad things will follow
 
I have to admit I grow tired of the anti-framework sentiment in here. I used to share the bias and enjoyed the fun bashing them and still agree to packages > frameworks but if a framework gets the job done, it is a useful tool; even laravel. its not like picking a package will automatically result in better code. depending on the packages it might even result in worse code.
 
7:31 AM
which is better CI or Laravel ?
 
ALLOC_HASHTABLE(ATATUS_G(cache_table));zend_hash_init(ATATUS_G(cache_table), 16, NULL, NULL, 0);
 
then you haven't set a dtor, so technically don't need to addref, but you probably should set a dtor whatever, because as above ...
 
@Demonyowh the one that solves your app's needs better
 
@Gordon the code of laravel is not evil, it's the idioms that are evil ...
they tend to be used by people who think the framework solves all problems
 
@JoeWatkins so when you mean to set a dtor, that means to add a ref before adding into the hashtable and in the dtor, to decrement the ref myself. Is that correct
 
7:33 AM
no, I mean set a dtor in zend_hash_init
when you add to table, addref the zval
when you destroy the table, they will be delref'd or free'd as appropriate
 
@Gordon Clearly you haven't worked with laravel :P
 
@JoeWatkins oh, I agree. A fool with a tool is still a fool and he won't get any wiser from learning harmful idioms. But at least he is productive.
 
oh, so dtor function need not do that? what exactly is the purpose dtor (I thought it was a destructor function, just like constructor). And there I should delref (since I added the ref)
 
the dtor should be ZVAL_PTR_DTOR, it is executed when the table is destroyed
on each element (bucket) in the table
so when you zend_hash_add, you do addref and when the table is destroyed with zend_hash_destroy, the dtor function (ZVAL_PTR_DTOR) is executed for you as part of the destruction routine for the table
 
@PeeHaa true, but I have worked with Cake[0-2], Sf2, ZF1 and CI and cursed all of them at some point for being half-arsed or overly complicated or outright broken. Nevertheless, they made a lot of other things painless and easy (not necessarily simple, but easy).
 
7:38 AM
Cool. So I just have to addref before adding and set the dtor to the zend internal function ZVAL_PTR_DTOR - which does this. Awesome! Thanks for taking the time to explain @JoeWatkins
 
addref after adding
(if the add was successful)
 
ah! yea.. okay
 
@PeeHaa I have also worked with shop systems some pricey consultants made up and they also were a PITA to use despite the consultants preaching the regular cargo cults
 
@Demonyowh when you pick up a wet dogshit and squeeze, does it matter through which finger-gap it gets out more?
 
@PeeHaa thing is, you can assemble individual packages each having their own opinion into a mess of opinions easily. and in that case, maybe using a framework with one strong opinion is the better choice then. at least it takes the effort to find the right package away from you.
 
7:44 AM
what you say about choosing packages is true, you could choose good packages and make crap code ... but I have a suspicion that the process of gluing packages together prepares and informs you how to write good code better than choosing all the packages from one vendor and applying whatever idioms that particular framework employs to glue code together to write your application
 
I think both has it's merits but it hugely depends on the developer and project
 
@Gordon basically, you are saying, that framework is a crutch for people, that are clueless about architecture and development practices
 
@tereško they can be
 
I don't see that in the real world ... I see one set of developers putting thought into their code and choosing packages carefully, choosing how to glue them together carefully, and I see another, just as skilled but possibly lazier set of developers just downloading laravel or symfony and making their application an idiomatic extension of the framework
 
@JoeWatkins and is one better than the other?
 
7:47 AM
quite obviously, yes
 
@JoeWatkins or trying to squeeze their previous idiom in the framework's one
 
@Gordon how to show custom error message while using define('ENVIRONMENT', 'production')?
 
@Gordon I didn't say anything about packages I am saying laravel is terrible from experience
 
@JoeWatkins glueing stuff together takes time. often considerable amounts.
 
Limited experience though (two projects)
 
7:48 AM
@ShibinRajuMathew with an if
 
hey there
 
it does, but it's an investment in the skills of the programmer(s) to allow them that time ...
 
@Gordon i want to handle db errors and php error then how ? please one example?
 
@JoeWatkins from my experience, a lot of companies are not willing to take that risk ... coincidentally, they are also the companies, that have failed
 
i am having troubles with my pdf loader. i am using CI framework, to load a pdf file you need to call the lib first using this piece of code $this->load->library('Pdf'); It works on my local but when I transfer the source to our linux server it doesn't work. It couldn't create or load a pdf file. What could be the cause of this?and solution?Anyone? thanks in advanced!
 
7:51 AM
ask @Gordon, he likes frameworks :D
 
i see .. whatever framework you use, as long you have the logic it doesn't matter.
 
@ShibinRajuMathew if (ENVIRONMENT === "production") { // handle db errors and php errors }
 
Anonymous
mornin
 
@Gordon the worst thing about frameworks are the communities behind them. I think we all know that you can write good code on top of one and it's not really an issue to use one. But as soon as you send a newbie towards a framework like laravel they end up in that community and learn a lot of bad habits
I wasted years of my life because of CI
 
@tereško that's broadly true ... but none of us need to work at that kind of company, at least not for very long ...
 
7:53 AM
owwww is that so,,, hmmm
 
@tereško I didnt say that. I just think that dogmatically ruling out frameworks is about as smart as claiming laravel is the hottest shit since sliced bread. frameworks have their uses and an experienced framework xy developer can be productive even without producing pristine solid code.
 
@Gordon I was being facetious (in my last remark)
 
@Patrick wasted? did you deploy any of that code into production? did your company earn money with it?
@tereško I know :)
 
@Gordon I ended up scrapping multiple projects while being self-employed because I lost motivation at the end. It took forever to do simple things once the application (and tech debt) grew.
 
7:56 AM
@phoenix you should start by making sure that error logging is fully enabled, then check the logs. It is possible that your current server is missing some dependency.
 
@Ocramius @Ocramius @Ocramius @Ocramius @Ocramius @Ocramius
 
@Gordon on my first "real" job with CI we ended up refactoring everything to remove CI asap because development had pretty much come to a halt. simple changes took weeks instead of minutes
 
@phoenix if that fails, you will have to start digging through that PDF library to see, what dependencies it actually has
 
While getting rid of it, development times sped up a lot
 
AFK: to farmers market for meat .. and then to work
 
7:58 AM
@Patrick losing motivation is a personal thing
 
@Gordon it was because of the CI technical debt. programming is no fun if changing a simple thing takes a whole day
 

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