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04:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

7:00 PM
Your extrapolation skills are poor.
 
cough
 
@Milad to sum up: you need to show that you have made something before.
live site would be preferable, but not mandatory
also, you can always try sending your CV (with some polite accompanying email) to larger web-dev companies
 
@tereško is it good to make a github account and create a folder for each websites that i've created so far and put SOME of the codes in those folders?
 
you can, but I wouldnt do that
 
then how should I show them my experience?
 
7:04 PM
my suggestion would be to make a new project (something considerably smaller that facebook) and use it to learn using git
you can dump older projects there, but that would just show that you know that github exists and not that you know how to use version control software
 
@tereško to learn? to learn what? git? php?
 
@Milad How do you show experience when you don't have any experience? Do you think a company looking to hire a graduate is looking for years of experience? Do you really think they're going to be impressed with 20 hello worlds in your github?
 
to learn how to make a project using version control
also to provide an example of you actually work (the commits, if done correctly, will illustrate your development process)
 
Demonstrate what actually can make you stand out. Academic accomplishments, apprenticeships, publications, letters of recommendations from your professors.
You know.. the things you actually can have. You clearly can't have any on the job experience yet.
 
@Sherif I honestly DON'T WANT to have any of those. I don't think those are necessary.
seems like doing all that stuff to impress.
 
7:10 PM
@Sherif dear god why
 
what's the point?
 
@Milad What is it that you think is necessary for someone in your position?
Basically, you have no experience and no accomplishments. So what is it that you think is going to make you stand out from every other computer science graduate next to you?
 
@Sherif to write some kick ass code that don't suck.
 
@Sherif if someone arrived at the interview with those, taht would basically be the end of said interview
 
@Milad So you've written some kick ass code that's going to impress?
 
7:11 PM
well not all that!
 
@Milad But you're willing to steak your job on it?
 
@tereško i know!
 
shrug good luck with that
 
@Sherif They really make you stand out..
 
7:13 PM
@Sherif can't find any verb version of steak in my dictionary. sorry. (not very good in english.)
 
@Sherif maybe is some strange american thing. In the rest of world nobody cares about some trumped up "academic accomplishments"
... well, maybe Japan
 
@Milad I'm saying, you're betting that you will be successful in an interview on the premise that you will at some point in time write "kick ass code" that's going to impress? Is this not a little optimistic if not delusional?
 
being a good developer is all about self-improvement and not about asskissing some random professor
9
 
The problem is... you aren't a good developer yet.
You're a graduate.
 
Um, graduates can't be good developers?
 
7:16 PM
I mean... who walks into an interview telling their interviewer "I'm going to write shitty code"
 
@Sherif yes I am. I'm good for myself.
 
Of course you want to write great code. Everyone does.
But how do you stand out from everyone then?
Did you do an internship and get a letter of recommendation?
Did you write something and put it online that everyone raved about?
Where's the proof that you're better than every other applicant? Think about what I'm saying. It's not crazy and it's not meant to deter you. It's honest advise. Put yourself in the shoes of the guy getting 400 applications from every other graduate just like you. Which one does he/she pick?
 
Oh man! That's.. OK. I get it.
 
Which one will he/she pick. Some asshole with golden ribbon from university or someone who has code to show and talk about
 
@tereško What about the one who neither has the ribbon nor the code?
 
7:19 PM
@tereško thaaaat is what i'm talking about. I hate those people.
 
@Sherif you can create code.
 
@tereško Everyone can create code. What makes yours so special?
I think you're missing the point.
 
@Sherif All he needs is willingness to learn.
 
hey @tereško how long those it take to create a good github with all good commits and stuff?
 
@littlepootis Right, if people got hired based on their willingness to learn it would be pretty easy to get a job.
 
7:22 PM
@Milad depends. I could say couple months. What you need is at least one good project. Something a senior developer can quickly look through.
 
People land jobs all the time just based on their willingness to learn. Why bother sending a resume in then? Just put down "willing to learn".
 
@tereško what's a good project? a website? making it open source.
 
You can be hopeful and get crushed later or you can be well prepared and improve your chances... I'll let you decide which one sounds more promising.
 
@Milad yes. Some opensource website project that you are making. Something small and practical.
and with "good" I mean "project with as good code as you can create, following various best practices and industry standards"
 
@tereško I see. Sounds good.
wait a minute. I wanna show you something.
 
7:29 PM
nite all
 
@tereško does this sound like practical? imgur.com/a/91wqF
 
Anonymous
@Sherif @Danack thanks for your help the other night; looks like they want to interview me so worked out well
 
@Milad it's empty
 
imgur has changed! sorry.
 
@JayIsTooCommon ??
 
Anonymous
7:32 PM
@Sherif about how my CV was shitty :P I rewrote it based on your advice and they seemed impressed :)
 
@JayIsTooCommon That was the other night? I wasn't even here the other night. Must have been my evil twin.
 
Anonymous
@Sherif 'the other night' = not a clue when it was :P
 
@JayIsTooCommon heh. Glad it worked out for you though :)
Just don't forget to prep for the interview!
 
can it be a good project to work on on github?
 
Anonymous
@Milad few years a go I was in your position. If you want a job quickly, then I think @Sherif's advice is great. You have nothing going for you code wise atm, so education is all you got :P. But if you're prepared to wait, then definitely get some code down in GitHub (from scratch) and take time to make sure it's 'kick-ass'
 
Anonymous
7:36 PM
@Sherif not my first job don't worry :P I'm in a lead position atm but on 17k... Because public sector sucks. So looking to move :p
 
@Milad yes, but be aware that your project will most likely be opensource (since you will have others to be read your code)
 
@JayIsTooCommon Hey, I've been the job for a long time too. That doesn't mean even I couldn't screw up in an interview. You should always be prepared.
 
Anonymous
@Sherif yeah agreed, I don't hold much hope anyway but my CV is at least getting a reply now so.. Baby steps :p
 
@JayIsTooCommon Don't put yourself down like that. Being well prepared is the key to success. But if you're counting on getting lucky, then I would be scared too.
 
@tereško do you know any github projects for opensource websites?
 
7:41 PM
@JayIsTooCommon Read the book Algorithms for Interviews by Adnan Aziz and Amit Prakash it's great prep material.
Or get Gayle's book. She's great with that stuff.
 
Mornigs
 
Ekn
o/
 
\o
 
Anonymous
@Sherif thank you :) Will give it a look and let you know how it turns out
 
Anonymous
7:44 PM
@PeeHaa o/
 
@tereško Okay. thanks.
and thank others for helping me.
 
hmm ... it really must be that in USA there is a completely different hiring culture: getting hired because school accomplishments or being asked to write some bizarre algorithm in the interview is almost unheard of here.
 
o/
 
this room rocks.
 
@tereško What's the basis of hiring criteria where you are?
"I like your shoes. You're hired!"
 
7:53 PM
@Sherif previous experience, sample exercise (either before interview or after first interview ... if there are multiple), ability to communicate
 
@tereško And what if you have no experience?
 
you still have to the option to excel with the sample exercise (which then is likely to get a live-codereview in the "developer part" of the interview)
 
OK, so then it doesn't sound so different. There's a technical aspect and there's an experience aspect. What's so bad about including education in the mix?
 
and if you are applying to a junior-dev position, "experience" counts as "studied or currently studying to get degree in IT
 
Great, so then you do include education.
Sounds identical then.
 
7:56 PM
no it doesn't
 
How's that? You're using the same basis criteria that you're mocking.
 
the requirement is "has education in the relevant field"
 
Well, how low you set the bar is up to you.
 
not "has recommendation letter" or "has academic accomplishments"
 
How do you distinguish 2 graduates from the same university with the same grades? Which one is the better candidate if neither has any other distinguishing criteria like experience?
You have to decide somehow.
 
7:58 PM
hell, if your code is good enough, you can be fresh from high-school
 
That logic cuts both ways. If you accept someone with great code out of high school why would you reject someone with a great academic track record?
 
yes, if your code is bad, the person with great academic record will be rejected
if your code is shit, your education does not matter
 
That doesn't answer my question. You're just assuming the other person has already written bad code. They haven't. One has code and the other has an education.
 
> the sample exercise (which then is likely to get a live-codereview in the "developer part" of the interview)
 
Great, so if they both do good on the sample exercise, how do you pick?
 
8:02 PM
> ability to communicate
 
They're both excellent communicators. How do you pick?
 
one that wants less money .. one that can start work as soon as the company needs ... one with better foreign-language skills
hell .. if they are both what the company need, they both get hired
 
They both want the same amount of money. They both are willing to start today. They both have identical foreign-language skills. How do you pick?
@tereško You only have one job open. How do you pick?
 
The one who sounds like a nicer person and will fit best in the team
 
They're both perfectly nice and the team loves them both. How do you pick?
 
8:06 PM
@Sherif do you intend go ad nauseum
 
The above has never happended to me
what @tereško said
 
at no point "recommendation from professor" or "academic accomplishments" will be considered
does it clear things up for you?
hell .. the candidate who brings one of those up probably gets the boot
 
@tereško Great, so then just say that :) You're biased. You don't actually want the better candidate. You just want your logic to not be axiomatic.
But dont' give me all this bullshit about making your decision based on any form of rationale.
 
no, I am saying that accademic accomplishments have no value in jobs market
 
Perhaps not to you.
 
8:09 PM
 
You pose an argument, but when you realize your argument is flawed you defer to "because I said so". You expect me to be suddenly convinced that what you're saying is sensible with that?
 
are you a fucking idiot?
2
 
Why would academic accomplishment not have any value? Academic accomplishment is the reason half of today's technology exists.
@tereško If you're going to devolve to belligerence there's no point.
 
because I hot fed up with you
I gave you three topic that are important in interview here
 
Maybe that's the problem. You're focused on me. Focus on the argument.
 
8:13 PM
and then you kept making fictional scenarious THAT NEVER HAPPEN to try to somehow magically disprove my point
that's it
I am done
 
No, I made a rhetorical point. Your logic cuts both ways. You just choose to ignore that.
 
and I made a practical point
 
If you choose the person based on distinguishing criteria because they're identical in every other way... why rule out this one set of criteria as taboo?
What sense does that make unless you have a biased against that one thing?
 
jeez
I am not biased against it
 
So then why is it automatically ruled out without reason?
Why is everything else reasonable and this one thing not?
 
8:15 PM
I am saying that if a candidate in a interview keeps going on and on about his academic accomplishments, it is a terrible interview
 
What else does a graduate have to go on about but what they did in school or in an internship?
You expect them to tell you about the time they were at IBM and invented Watson?
 
go back to your lala-land
 
Why is a sensible question met with childish mockery?
 
an internship is not a "academic accomplishment", btw
3 mins ago, by tereško
I am done
 
Well, you said that 3 minutes ago.
 
8:20 PM
btw, @PeeHaa, did you look at that "Resuest instance in View" thing? Any comments?
 
tbh. I am not in any state to answer a question like that right now. This weekend was is long and substances were abused
 
:D
well .. I was writing code
 
Anonymous
Did you go to a festival?
 
@JayIsTooCommon yeah
 
Anonymous
Because every fucker seems to be at a festival right now..
 
Anonymous
8:25 PM
Ah
 
Anonymous
Any good?
 
Yeah totally fun / crazy
 
Anonymous
Noice
 
@Patrick is still over there I think
 
Anonymous
Was it a specific genre festival or just get high and pretend to listen to the music :p?
 
8:27 PM
Mixed dance music
but I spent most of my time at the harder stages
And the after party in the hotel :P
 
Anonymous
Fackkk that looks wild
 
Trust me it was :P
 
I already miss my multiple monitors :'(
 
@JayIsTooCommon The end show was reeeeally crazy
 
Anonymous
Go on... Did you strip?
 
Anonymous
@Fabor you taking loads with you or just buying stuff out there?
 
Shit video but first one I found
 
@JayIsTooCommon just my 13" ultrabook
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa that stage and lighting is awesome
 
fucking great
 
8:53 PM
ahoy hoy
 
o/
 
9:15 PM
halp
how the hell can I implement switching between Response and StreamedResponse (Symfony HttpKernel)
I dont want to add this in the routing configuration
 
10:16 PM
I can't help but wonder what got flagged each time I see Ed coming in here. Or maybe they're here with some popcorn just to see teresko in action? also mornings
@tereško isn't that some things that happen with aliases in some symfony's version of dic? disclaimer: I don't use symfony, I'm just wondering
 
I am not using Symfony as a whole, jsut the HttpKernel and DIC
I just moved the Response to setter injection
 
Call them both Response, maybe? Then use \Symfony\Whatever\StreamedResponse as Response
 
so I'm not exactly sure myself what I am saying, but a wrapper built with the desired response could be used to set the proper response type using said setters. So instead of "caller > build response", something like "response wrapper > caller > build response"
 
@taco the response is not created inside the view
 
oh ok. maybe inject them both then and set $this->response to the one you want I guess, that's the best I can think of
or some sort of factory
 
10:34 PM
Hey is ScrapOverflow a thing?
Welcome! Tired of being turned around at StackOverflow? Look no further! Here, we value rep whores, help vampires above all other humans. Never use google ever again, our horde of semi professionnal imaginary points hoarders will be more than pleased to relieve you from the necessity of using your brain, and help all of us build the biggest copy pasted software world we can imagine!
3
 
10:56 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I thought that was just called "the internet"?
 
hehe.... you're sadly not totally wrong
 
I mean 15 million software developers in the world... 3 billion people on the internet... you do the math!
 
@Leigh your turn in buying a random domain ^^
 
11:22 PM
interesting. I think I just discovered the weirdest bug ever in stackoverflow :/
 
oh hai @Fabor. still hangover?
@Sherif ................. go on? :p
 
Ekn
11:39 PM
@tereško do you have some sorta playlist?
 
nope
 
Ekn
alright, maybe @FélixGagnon-Grenier?
/me consumed it all :|
 
heh :p
normally, my playlists are called "albums"
 
Ekn
I've been listening Tool, Mudvayne and whatever Jessica Haeckel covered
and now suggestions are just repetitive.. same stuff all over again
 
I really like that one from JS Bach, BWV 1004... some kinda playlist, but not very long. also these days I listen a lot to this nightwish compilation on youtube.
 
Ekn
11:44 PM
alright these will do for now heh
thanks :)
 
szeryng, the interpret of the recording, is my all time favorite violin player. an old school stern player reputed for playing so drunk he couldn't walk straight, but would take the tears right out of your eyes playing beethoven's concerto. not because he'd play badly :p
 
Ekn
I see
hey, do you still get to perform sometime?
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier You got bored of yours?
 
mostly in orchestral representation, but sometimes in smaller chamber ensembles. in september I'll have the chance to play with an ensemble of McGills's students, we're creating a tango from a live argentinian composer. @Ekn
@Leigh yeah, you know, people learn :p
 
Ekn
11:52 PM
ah that's great
 
I'm using "student" liberally here, some of them have finished their doctorate and now play in some serious orchestras.
 
Ekn
@tereško I finished One too about half an hr ago :)
 
damn
 
I'm quite happy with programming for that, deciding my schedule leaves plenty of time for not forgetting the thing I've done most in my life...
 
what about this one:
(earlier worst from current Draconian female lead)
 
Ekn
11:55 PM
now that'll do, thanks
I haven't heard this one
@FélixGagnon-Grenier McGills?
 
s/worst/work
 
Ekn
:D I was thinking why
 
lolyeah I actually wondered :D
 
that's it .. I cant deal with 3 streams of thought at 3AM
 
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