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Wes
10:00 PM
so the finally gets executed even if the iterator is still available. it's not what i want, now i get it
i want complete() to be executed when the generator gets destroyed
regardless it was consumed or not
any idea?
ok i have one. wait for it
 
@Wes the generator gets destroyed immediately after the complete() call??
 
Wes
 
informal poll, how do you guys shorthand "approximately equal to"
 
@Leigh as in doubles comparison?
 
Wes
alike, resemble @Leigh
 
10:11 PM
I meant like ... I use ~=
but that doesn't make sense to everyone
 
Isn't there that single character thingy fot it?
 
there's a double ~, but it's not easily accessible :P
 
Wes
yes @PeeHaa ≈
 
or that, but not easily accessible :p
 
Yeah i was already opening my character map to get it :P
 
10:13 PM
 
dat one
 
a google search a scroll and a copy/paste later
is there a good shorthand that doesn't involve that?
 
Ship it :P
 
why the fuck is utf8_encode and utf8_decode in ext/XML ????
 
Wes
> This symbol (in English) informally[4] means "approximately", such as: "~30 minutes before" meaning "approximately 30 minutes before".[5][6] It can mean "similar to",[7] including "of the same order of magnitude as",[4] such as: "x ~ y" meaning that x and y are of the same order of magnitude.
 
10:14 PM
@bwoebi why the fuck is ext/date outside of ext ?
 
Wes
> Another approximation symbol is the double-tilde ≈, meaning "approximately equal to"[5][7][8] the critical difference being the subjective level of accuracy: ≈ indicates a value which can be considered functionally equivalent for a calculation within an acceptable degree of error, whereas ~ is usually used to indicate a larger, possibly significant, degree of error. The tilde is also used to indicate equal to, or approximately equal to by placing it over the "=" symbol, like this: ≅.
 
@Leigh I would have said what you already have otherwise
~=
 
@Leigh it isn't?
 
@bwoebi ext/date is a dependency of core, outside of ext. Delete ext/date, you can't compile
PHP \o/
 
Wes
@bwoebi opinions about the destructor thing? are there simpler ways than that?
 
10:15 PM
@Leigh what symbols does core depend on?
 
I can't remember, but once I deleted all of ext apart from standard just to test, you can't compile
I know "just trust me" is a bad reasoning, but I really did
 
@bwoebi I'd love to see those renamed or removed entirely. People throw those around at random not having a clue what they do, expecting them to magically fix their � problems.
 
@PaulCrovella … it does sometimes work. :-D
 
Wes
@Leigh i tried too, i couldn't even disable libxml
 
@Wes so maybe I should skip the equals, thanks :). I'm totally fixed on ~ being "not" though
 
Wes
10:19 PM
eheh :P programmers
 
@LeviMorrison looks good I think
 
@Wes I had this idea, separate all the things... split the parser from the lexer from the compiler etc. and produce intermediate representations between each step. It was obviously too much for me to undertake, but I wanted to test how far down I could strip things before it broke
removing ext/date broke everything
I quit :p
 
"step 1: remove ext... oh, gg"
 
Wes
lol
 
and yesterday I see Rust's MIR, people keep doing things I want for PHP in other languages, and I wish I had the ability to do it here :/
btw, you guys should see my Nikita shrine... totally caked in goats blood now :D
 
10:25 PM
óÒ
 
wait, what was it caked in before?
 
lol
 
don't answer that
 
@Leigh What part of MIR are you interested in seeing?
 
@NikiC in PHP?
 
10:28 PM
yes
In a way the IR we have is a MIR, so I'm wondering what specifically you're looking for ;)
 
anybody plays/knows empty epsilon? daid.github.io/EmptyEpsilon
 
How do we represent foreach vs for vs while loops currently?
I've never looked.
That would be one potential difference.
 
@LeviMorrison for and while are implemented using conditional jumps
 
In bytecode; that's not what I meant.
 
it's just the fact that another step could be abstracted, a separation of concerns at the compilation level. I'd really like to see the output from independent steps usable by downstream (? ... side-stream?) projects - for example an independent VM (HH, Hippy, whatever) could use PHPs parser/lexer and not worry about re-implementing it
 
10:30 PM
We don't lower to something else before that, right? We go from AST -> bytecode and foreach, while and for are distinct in AST, yes?
 
@LeviMorrison yes sure
 
(Also, for our case specifically I'm not sure we'd actually benefit from unifying those, it was just a difference)
 
it would also allow the parser/lexer to be more easily used as a front-end for something like LLVM
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier damn, I hoped for challenging parser quests based on the name :-(
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier bookmarked for later
 
10:32 PM
heh. sorry 'bout that
I'm just worried I'll like it too much and lose what's left of my life
 
On that note, anyone else played stockfighter?
 
@Leigh I was planning to but somehow never found the time...
 
I get a feeling I'll regret googling that
 
I liked their embedded CTF
 
@NikiC I hit a wall of frustration and stopped.
The stockfighter embedded CTF isn't out yet, but I assume you mean microcorruption... and I loved it
 
10:35 PM
yeah, that's the one
 
microcorruption.com/hall_of_fame - number 29, started 3 days after release.... /happy with that :)
I sat in the IRC channel, the top players were trying to design some kind of state-tracking VM, I forget the proper name for it
 
@Leigh nice. I don't think I actually played a lot of levels
 
I patched the RNG, ASLR defeated
 
should get back to that
 
You played all of cryptopals right?
 
10:38 PM
yeah
 
the last set never made it to the website
 
actually I don't think the last set ever made it to me either
if you mean the elliptic curve one
 
I don't know what I mean, I never saw it :p
 
Wes
thank you for the help with generators bob, i panicked for a moment :B
 
I did up to set 6 I think (I was doing it all in PHP, and my goal was "zero dependencies"), I stopped at: Implement RSA
 
10:40 PM
@Leigh Yeah just checked, I only have them up to set 7
 
maybe that's when matasano got bought up by NCC
and set 8 never existed
arbitrary precision arithmetic using 64 bit signed integers, yeaaa, no :)
although I recently implemented 128 bit unsigned multiplication that still outperforms GMP ;D
 
@Leigh I mostly did them in PHP, but did some in C++ (e.g. the differential attack on md4)
 
@Wes Yeah, the lack of auto-priming is a mess :-/
 
@bwoebi Stop calling it that
The existing functionality is already called auto-priming
Use a different term
 
It … is?
What shall I then call it?
 
10:44 PM
@bwoebi The fact that it primes on first use is auto-priming
 
@NikiC is that the collisions one in set 7? otherwise I'd have done it in PHP already
 
Wes
implicit auto priming
 
@NikiC That actually (IMO) is delayed/lazy priming (as opposed to call-time)
 
my plan was to use cryptopals to learn rust...
didn't happen
 
Wes
@bwoebi fixitfixitfixitfixitfixit
 
10:46 PM
@Leigh Yeah, probably in set 7. The md4 attack was imho the hardest of all the challenges
 
@Wes Nikita is against it (why exactly again?)
 
Wes
i don't fully understand it tho. why isn't it automatic?
 
@NikiC challenge accepted!
 
Wes
@bwoebi because of what laravel users would do? :B
 
@Wes laravel users don't use Generators (in general)
 
I got the reference, thanks :-P and I was joking back :-P
 
Wes
not pretending i understand generators, but that looks weird
 
@bwoebi Why did Dmitry /cc you into that conversation anyway?
 
@LeviMorrison I have no idea
Probably masochistic and wanted me to fire arguments on him? no idea…
 
Wes
how would you write "collection's count" as a method? collectionCount() or collectionsCount()
 
10:57 PM
@Wes The latter is the number of collections, the former the count of one collection.
 
Wes
how about lengthOfCollection ?
 
count($collection); // ?
Collection implements Countable?
 
@Wes nah, that's Java(script)
We don't talk lengths, just counts
 
Wes
nope, i have a $selection->count() which is the length of the range, which is referring to $selection->totalCountOfCollection() or whatever
 
11:22 PM
hi guys, anyone still awake here?
 
Wes
programmers don't sleep
 
:D
anyone know of a gallery plugin that can include videos hosted on local server?
i am looking for a image/video plugin, found this blueimp.github.io/Gallery but the videos are only for youtube hosted
@Wes i need to create a media manager where users can upload images/videos, any advice?
 
Wes
no idea. you should just use youtube. it's not only the videos upload, videos need to be re-encoded for web playback, eg avi to flv
 
@Wes yah unfortunately cant use youtube for this one
 
11:37 PM
thanks, i think ill just ask them if we can integrate youtube, easiest solution
 
@grasshopper you might check out brightcove, we used them at a former gig for video hosting, transcoding etc. ... beats doing everything yourself if you don't have the time or experience to do it well
 
Ah, it's not quite as simple as I'd hoped:
Fatal error: Declaration of StrictFoo::foo(Fooable $f) must be compatible with Fooable::foo(Fooable $f = NULL)
Fooable::Foo() doesn't have that signature; it has ?Fooable $f` not Fooable $f = NULL
 
@LeviMorrison yeah, you can distinguish by checking whether it has a default value of null?
 
The behavior is correct; just wrong message.
I'm not sure why Dmitry is thinking this is a BC break though.
 
yes, I mean when displaying
no idea
he's probably confused but the other thing
 
Wes
11:46 PM
@LeviMorrison maybe related? bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=72034
nvm, doesn't look to be related :B
 
Ekn
@Wes oh noes :/
 
Wes
yeah sad
 

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