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9:00 PM
Ugggh damnit. Now it doesn't segfault anymore :P
oh wait it's still running
 
I've been writing a shitload of SQL recently though, I'm currently thinking in terms of SELECT map() WHERE filter() GROUP BY reduce() which is both the same and totally not the same
 
Hmmm looks like phpdbg doesnt end at all now :P
 
I've been writing some properly ugly SQL recently, doing a lot of transform logic that does not belong in the DB because of retarded 3rd party apps
I'm not sure if there's another kind of 3rd party app
 
@PeeHaa inf loops are nice.
 
9:02 PM
Idk what is going on so for now I'll leave it
 
@PeeHaa yeah, it's waiting on stdin for input, because fatal.
 
@FlorianMargaine I didn't even bother to ask you because I knew what you would say :-P
(not saying that's wrong, btw)
 
Well it can wait all it wants, but it is not coming :P
However. The segfault is gone...
 
@DaveRandom yeah, as I said, I may be biased
 
@Sara it means no one will complain when it gets removed
 
9:03 PM
I guess using function pointers all over the place would feel wrong to a primarily C dev
 
@FlorianMargaine Equally I suspect I'm biased in the other direction. My opinions on such things are extremely transient, I have found over the years.
 
Put your app on the JVM Put your JVM in a container Put your container on a VM Put your VM in the Cloud Get code as far from me as possible
 
@PeeHaa anyway, the unset method isn't in that code.
 
@JoeWatkins love your shrug operator
 
whether I use array_map or $arr = []; foreach ()... largely depends on which I happen to type at the time ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
9:06 PM
@bwoebi The unset stuff was actually related to a phpunit bug, I'll re-add it
 
@FlorianMargaine With my (very much not authoritative) C-hat on I'm actually less bothered because I have a compiler to make these decisions for me... just because I wrote it as a callback doesn't mean -O3 will build it like that. It's things that I know will somewhat-blindly execute it as I wrote it that I overthink.
TL;DR E_TOO_META
 
@PeeHaa re-add what?
 
@DaveRandom oh, I see
@DaveRandom ok, it's just the cost of abstraction that bothers you
 
@bwoebi Whatever it was that was segfaulting the thing
 
> I personally don't see much advantage in making PHP code less readable
and harder to parse.
^ is that what you're proposing, @bwoebi?
 
9:09 PM
@FlorianMargaine ...which in and of itself bothers me. I am always aware that I'm thinking too much about the how and not the what, but I can't seem to break out of that :-(
Somehow I suspect @rdlowrey is the same, since he also seems to fiddle with things rather than finishing them
 
@bwoebi the clean branch and the segfault
 
not a criticism, just that I sympathise
 
@DaveRandom yeah, especially since you call many functions in php. And you know how func calls are expensive in php. I mean... count the number of functions you call in some random prod app. Tell me these closures mean something.
@DaveRandom that has nothing to do with it
do you want to compare the number of unfinished projects we have? :D
 
@FlorianMargaine Is this a pissing contest because you know I will win :)
 
@PeeHaa not sure. You probably have more finished apps than us :P
 
9:11 PM
@marcio ???
 
opcache gui, feedr, the request thing
 
oh, the mail from Stas
 
ah, you didn't see the mailing list yet.
 
@FlorianMargaine it's not how many unfinished things, its the qty of refactorings per unfinished thing
 
@FlorianMargaine yeah that is actually true now that I think of it
 
9:12 PM
You just get bored rather than obsessed :-P
 
@DaveRandom sorry, I don't get what you mean
 
Although feedr is not really finished. Just released because the hack weekend was over :P
 
I'll read that after dealing with Pieter...
 
@marcio You know, I wasn't for this RFC but seeing him oppose it has me rethinking my position.
 
@FlorianMargaine I'd rather knock out 30 unfinished things a day than 1 a year that I just keep fiddling with and never get past 90% complete
hard to explain I guess
 
9:13 PM
@bwoebi That sounds like you are hunting me down as we speak to "pay me a visit" :P
 
@PeeHaa not intended, but funny. :-D
 
;-)
 
@DaveRandom uh... how is that related to array_map/foreach? ^^ I totally lost you there
 
@PeeHaa Was it ever designed for more than SO chat?
 
hm... the hotel minibar is tempting...
 
9:15 PM
@PeeHaa no project is ever really finished, ya just stop working on it
 
@FlorianMargaine I mean in terms of getting obsessed with how stuff works rather than what you are actually doing with it... I should just pick one and do it rather than debating the relative merits of each and "optimising" various aspects over and over
8 mins ago, by DaveRandom
TL;DR E_TOO_META
^ I did warn you :-P
 
@DaveRandom ah... that depends, yeah. Sometimes I do some refactoring because the code gets ugly... then I get back to full this, then refactor a bit because it got ugly again, rinse and repeat...
 
@FlorianMargaine Don't do it. One moment, trying to find sth.
 
then at some point, after one last refactoring, I write docs
then never finish the docs and move on to another project
 
@PeeHaa okay, not getting a segfault, but tons of valgrind warnings… that's enough.
 
9:19 PM
which is why I consider "finished projects" to be github.com/ralt/aergia or github.com/ralt/lxc-wrapper because they actually have docs
oh god
Stas is such an ass
5
you can't be surprised to have drama on internals when people write such emails...
 
@FlorianMargaine I like the name of the first one.. aergia
 
and no "senior" or w/e goes and tells them to behave
@Orangepill thank you :)
 
@DaveRandom It's just an xml feed you can use it for whatever you want. I use it on my frontpage
@PaulCrovella That's the reason it's not finished mostly :P
@bwoebi Awesome
 
@PeeHaa ah okay… it's because fatal in eval()'ed code…
 
One does not simply fatal in evaled code
 
9:22 PM
@ircmaxell it's probably not what you think of when you think 'New Zealand cuisine' but when you get to Queenstown, one of the best curries I've had in the past ten years was here.
 
Tbh I haven;t found more uses for it yet, but I am sure there are :P @DaveRandom
Sorry dan
 
ugh I lost it
 
env DYLD_INSERT_LIBRARIES=/usr/lib/libgmalloc.dylib
env USE_ZEND_ALLOC=0
 
@FlorianMargaine omg. Someone should totally reply to that email with "your opinion is noted" and a link to wiki.php.net/rfc/internal_constructor_behaviour
 
9:25 PM
@Danack I guess a "code of conduct" should be added for internals... with only one rule: don't be an ass
 
@FlorianMargaine I have a thing for you, one sec I have to format it sanely into plain text
 
@DaveRandom waiting
 
He is converting punchcards. Give him some time
 
@FlorianMargaine pastie.org/private/3r8xvqttlexchvokxik9ka "stats" from all the hotels I stayed in in 2008... just order room service, it's almost certainly cheaper
 
@FlorianMargaine that's why I think the mailing list should be rebooted on another platform that would attract more eyeballs.
 
9:28 PM
Jesus you have issues @DaveRandom :P
 
@DaveRandom meh, drinks are 2eur each
(sodas)
 
Also £4.00 peanuts the fuck
Are you being fed them by an escort girl?
 
no, but you don't have to put pants on to go get them
 
or do you...
 
:P
 
9:34 PM
pants are always optional.
 
No one has to know what you look like if you work from home.
@Orangepill I check what the query string parameter says when on the destination_edit page vs the destinations_list_test(the one where I am testing out the modal edit. On destination_edit the id = 63 which is the destinations id. On the destinations_list_test page the id = 114 (the tripinfoid)
I think that is what is effecting it!
 
@PeeHaa ftfy
 
Anonymous
damn, I hate it when I start a project and midway though I start a new project.
 
@FlorianMargaine @Danack I see Nikita (Nefedov) has replied… good that I don't have to :-)
 
@bwoebi yeah you shouldn't - it's always good for an author of an RFC to get minions to reply to trolls, rather than engaging them directly.
 
9:45 PM
@Danack [That's mainly why I waited^^]
 
@PeeHaa The more expensive the hotel, the more expensive the peanuts (apparently)
 
As long as others deal with it, it's fine.
Also… that no-one else replies, is often a sign that your RFC isn't anticipated that positively.
 
@bwoebi wait... an 11er replied to internals without vetting the mail here first? SCANDALOUS!!!
:-P
 
I think I found my problem but I am still searching for the solution
 
@Orangepill s/optional/discouraged/
 
9:47 PM
@DaveRandom lol
 
for some people pants are encouraged.
 
I'm glad I'm not one of those people
 
@Danack yeah I guessed that \:
 
Oh, how the other side live
 
@nikita2206 That you're a minion now? :-P
 
9:49 PM
yep
 
@bwoebi I will now forever more imagine you as the main guy from Despicable Me
 
Oh, a Generics RFC… It's really detailed, awesome. I think we totally should mass-send +1's to internals for that.
 
@bwoebi hey lets do that
 
@bwoebi No reason to add fuel to the fire :-p
 
Imagine there's a parallel universe in which Stas wrote an RFC on generic classes
 
9:52 PM
@DaveRandom not sure if compliment or not.
 
there is a historical lobby against generics in PHP, that's the least possible RFC
 
[I hope you all get this was sarcasm…]
 
@bwoebi wasn't really intended as either but probably compliment if landing on one side or the other
 
I do
 
@bwoebi [we do]
 
9:54 PM
@DaveRandom come to Paris, we'll get a drink
 
@marcio [I really hoped someone would be surprised :-P]
 
@FlorianMargaine It's a date
 
@FlorianMargaine France is just like a 20 km from here… but France is too large…^^
 
Please can we stop with the square brackets before this turns into an obj-C room?
 
@bwoebi [why are we using this array syntax?]
 
9:55 PM
Oh hey, tomorrow I'm going to do something I've never done before: install VMs on a client's infrastructure
 
@DaveRandom [bwoebi enjoy:[notation brackets]]
 
@bwoebi heh, makes me think I was in Nancy a week ago... Not far away from Luxembourg
 
@FlorianMargaine Nancy… my great-grandparents live there^^
 
@bwoebi <3
 
@bwoebi I should've met them around a glass of mirabelle
(I have no idea what the english word is.)
google translate, here I come
 
9:58 PM
@FlorianMargaine they're over 90… not sure if that's the age of people you're usually interacting with.
@FlorianMargaine me neither, but I know the French word^^
 
@FlorianMargaine I think that's a kind of brandy?
I only really know it as a variety of plum but I vaguely recall seeing a bottle of brandy that said it on once
distilleriedebiercee.be/en/our-product-range/liqueurs/… <-- seems to be one made from the other
 
@DaveRandom I mean the fruit
Mirabelle liquor is quite great.
 
Ahh, we call the fruit "plum", with Mirabelle being a specific variety of same
 
My wife's grandmother used to make her own; I've drank some bottles of late 70's-early 80's in the last few years
 
Don't see them much these days, I remember having them when I was a kid though
(that specific variety I mean)
 
10:01 PM
Well, there's plenty of them around Alsace/Lorraine
(North east of France)
 
@FlorianMargaine And you can still see? She wasn't doing it right
 
@DaveRandom don't you know I have glasses?
anyway
after such a deception tonight (linux kernel breaking BC, which breaks lxc), I'm going to bed
 
I had some wine made by a farmer in the Rhone valley once, it may be the least pleasant experience of my entire life, although I was only about 13 so I didn't really "get" wine at the time
@FlorianMargaine nn
 
hi all. I write from spain
 
Abe
welcome
 
10:09 PM
thanks. I have an issue. I have an intern search engine in build .php that extract date from many databases (build in MYSQL) and show in a page as link where you can click and view information. I want to add a checker to these link, that give the possibility to the user to store as bookmark. Anyone can give me an example of a script that can do this.
 
@marcio get over here and make yourself useful :)
 
?
 
I am trying to get a list of not so much reserved keywords, but this list doesn't seem complete
e.g. unset is not on it
 
@PeeHaa go to zend_language_parser.y, anything reserved has to be there lxr.php.net/xref/PHP_TRUNK/Zend/zend_language_parser.y#268
 
10:11 PM
not sure if that's what you're after or not
@PeeHaa "not so much reserved"?
 
I think the technical term is semi-reserved :)
 
@DaveRandom No thank Dave. I don't need to bookmark as normal url. I want store it in a table that I can create in MYSQL.
 
@PeeHaa Things that are outright banned as class member names even if no parser conflicts?
(I assume is what you mean)
 
That is odd @marcio unset is on the list on lxr, but it works on methods 3v4l.org/lDu6q cc @DaveRandom
 
@Overnet Ah right, well in that case your question is quite general... how would you imagine this would be done and what specific part are you having difficulty with?
 
10:16 PM
@PeeHaa anything that is on this list can be used as a member name
 
@PeeHaa afaik there's nothing banned in that context because there are no ambiguities, what do you is definitely banned?
 
Oooooooooh @marcio
 
@PeeHaa it's an inclusive list, not exclusive ;)
 
Ahhh wait I get it
 
It's been some time since I last crashed my OS with an OOM…
 
10:17 PM
@DaveRandom Build the table where store the bookmark I think is the easiest part.
The difficult is how I need to do after. Here I've ask the question and is a part of code. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/32320667/bookmarks-system-in-php-and-mysql
@DaveRandom I hope that you know what I want to do. Thank for help
 
Abe
:25425101 class C1ass{
public function private(){}
protected function public(){}
private function protected(){}
protected function list(){}
protected function unset(){}
protected function array(){}
}
 
It's always quite an achievement to crash OS X, having 16 GB of RAM…
 
@Abe Those all work
 
Abe
yep, they do in php7 @PeeHaa
 
@Abe So is what @DaveRandom said correct? It indeed looks like it
 
10:20 PM
@DaveRandom I've found this tutorialzine.com/2010/04/… but I think that is not that I need
 
@Overnet I think I understand what you want but there are two major problems: 1) the question is a bit too general... the fact that you have a substantial amount of code suggests that you understand how to do a lot of it so you need to try and break it down into smaller parts and make those work individually/ask for help on the small parts and b) I am currently a bit too drunk to really help you with this. I'm genuinely sorry about the last part.
@Overnet Try not to think about/search for the term "bookmarking", think about what you need to do, not the end result you want
 
@PeeHaa btw. you realize that the phpunit issue is because the unset() method actually isn't present at all in the eval()'ed code?
 
brb
 
Abe
@PeeHaa what used to be reserved everywhere was made unreserved when used as method
 
10:21 PM
@marcio looks like unicode cheating
 
Abe
@marcio i almost cried.
then i realized
:D
 
@bwoebi Yes I do. But it should mock the entire interface (including the unset method)
 
Abe
yeah interface List is the only type i would like to have but i can't because it's reserved :P
 
And the reason it doesn't do that is because it is blacklisted I assume github.com/sebastianbergmann/phpunit-mock-objects/blob/master/…
 
10:23 PM
@DaveRandom thanks for the suggestion Dave. I hope to try the solution.
 
@PeeHaa yep
 
@PeeHaa class might be (because Foo::class) but I can't think of any other conflict
@Overnet If you come back in the day time (EU) I'm generally sober :-P
really brb
 
@PeeHaa is this the next phpunit version, it has to be removed or made conditional now.
 
@DaveRandom So, you're indicating you're most sober at 0:01?
 
@marcio Both alpha (5.1/dev-master) as well as beta (5.0) have this. I am now looking what the cleanest way is to fix it so I can send a PR. It's somewhat annoying for me right now
Considering luckily __CLASS__ is still not allowed as method name :P
 
10:26 PM
@PeeHaa I usually use other mocking framework, so never really noticed this.
 
@DaveRandom ahaha I enter in the room tomorrow morning or afternoon. I live too in EU
 
@PeeHaa it isn't?
 
@bwoebi Nope 3v4l.org/ZhiOa
 
@PeeHaa looks like @marcio did a bad job :-P
 
Abe
@PeeHaa will it be a php version check?
 
10:27 PM
@bwoebi according to spec, names with __ prefix are reserved
 
@PeeHaa I have a fork of phpunit-mock-objects that makes scalar type hinting/return types work
 
@bwoebi :P
 
But it doesn't do that :(
It could fairly easily
 
@cspray It already does work in dev-master
 
@marcio they are reserved… for internal methods. Right. not keyword-reserved.
 
10:28 PM
@PeeHaa Nice. When I forked it it wasn't working
 
hence why I didn't count with the __* stuff
 
It was kinda hacky so I didn't even bother trying to submit it
 
@marcio ?
 
@bwoebi it doesn't make sense to encourage anyone to declare a method named __CLASS__ because it's considered reserved.
 
ha! ^ md
 
10:30 PM
@marcio It's not about encouraging, just about not disallowing.
 
Hey guys! I'm not asking a specific question about PHP, but since it's a backend language I was wondering if you guys have an experience deploying your websites on aws
 
@bwoebi Since when is 0:01 day time?? :-P
 
I've only seen static options, don't really know where to start - any help is appreciated!
 
__CLASS__ is just as reserved as __CLAST__
@DaveRandom It's time of the day :-P … unlike 24:01 for example :-P
 
@bwoebi this was intentionally left out, but I don't really care about these names being allowed or not, we'll never make ::class become ::__CLASS__ anyway.
[even thought it was the right choice]
 
10:32 PM
@bwoebi Don't start me on this... IMO midnight is 12pm, but most people consider it 12am, this makes no sense to me
 
@DaveRandom yep I agree… hence call it 0 am instead of 12 am.
 
That's why you just use 24 hour time clocks and not fool with the AM/PM nonsense
 
either 0 am or 12 pm… IMHO.
 
@cspray hear hear
 
what should be done after one asks for a VCS account on the mailing list but no reply is given?
 
10:36 PM
@bwoebi I'm all about 0-indexed things. Was trying to explain this concept to a 4yo the other day. General advice... don't do that.
 
Have you done the VCS rain dance? @marcio
 
Also… AM is nonsense… Ante meridiem? … Before noon? well… shouldn't you then count upwards from 12 to 0 in the morning ;-D
 
@PeeHaa no, is there a video tutorial?
 
@PeeHaa You mean git commit -am "FUCK YOU BITCHES" && git push -f origin master?
 
@DaveRandom what exactly? the concept for am/pm?
 
10:38 PM
hehehe
 
could always just start using decimal time
 
@marcio just super-ping @salathe until he gives you karma :-D
 
@bwoebi no, why starting at 0 is often better than starting at 1
 
(nah, better ping Ferenc)
 
so @salathe is the one who owns PHP and gives karma?
ping @salathe
 
10:39 PM
@marcio he has karma to give karma.
 
everybody pings @salathe ^
 
But actually he's rather about the doc team^^
so, better ping Ferenc as said
 
oh, I see.
 
@marcio cheat and ping salathe/tyrael/bjori as appropriate for the VCS you asked for
 
ty, I'll do that.
 
10:40 PM
Also I think Derick has grant karma for some things
 
@DaveRandom really? … let me look up…
 
@bwoebi PECL I think, possibly something else, or maybe I made it up
 
yeah, he has full karma access
 
Well he's a very-old-timer, to be fair
 
10:42 PM
@DaveRandom true… don't know since when he's around…
but as xdebug is 5.2 compatible… must've been since about at least 10 years^^
 
and as much as ppl bitch about him sometimes, he's done a lot for PHP and is a pretty sound guy, even if he does have some weird views on some things
@bwoebi Well, when was timelib commited? It's at least that long
cba looking it up
 
[To be fair, he was also bitching a bit around about phpdbg…]
 
backs away from this topic slowly
:-P
 
^ his first commit
in 2000. Nice.
but that actually is only the first commit in SVN/GIT
you need to look into CVS archives to find his real first commit^^
 
@bwoebi Well remember that he was the guy who took the minutes of the Paris meet, and that was only the people who were already old-timers way back then
 
10:48 PM
"the paris meet"?
 
okay, well… that commit indeed was his first…
@PeeHaa yeah, they'd met to decide future of PHP back in 2006 (?)
 
So whenever I find a delorean that's is where when I have to go to stop this madness?
 
oh, was end 2005…^^
 
lol first chapter:
> The first part of the meeting was dedicated to issues related to the Unicode support for PHP 6.
Not a good start :P
 
10:51 PM
saw it in car park at motorway services on way to phpsc
 
@DaveRandom some big rock flattened that car?
 
@bwoebi kids these days...
 
@bwoebi philistine!
 
[to be fair, that was just a joke.]
 
I certainly hope so :P
 
10:53 PM
Annoyingly it didn't have the Mr Fusion on the back though
 
Abe
@bwoebi GET HIM!
 
@DaveRandom hehehehe
 
btw you can still buy a "new" one from the guy in TX somewhere who bought the assets of the company, including enough parts to make several more complete cars
 
ok people. What is the smart thing to do here. Loop through it and unset the methods or create a blacklistedMethodNamesPhp7AndUp
Both feel fugly
 
Abe
@DaveRandom it is entirely new, and electric powered
 
10:55 PM
@Abe Ahh yeh that's a different thing but it's also made from those parts
 
Abe
afaik they have all the stuff to make entirely new parts
 
@PeeHaa github.com/sebastianbergmann/phpunit-mock-objects/blob/master/… … just add PHP_MAJOR_VERSION >= 7 || and be happy. Sebastian doesn't have to know that there are still some blacklisted __* things^^
 
Apparently there's also a guy somewhere in FL who specialises in putting Merlin engines in things and someone once inquired about doing it with a Delorean...
 
Abe
would buy one
 
That may be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard but I still want one
 
10:58 PM
@bwoebi lol too late. I already pinged him earlier and he will probably find out :P
 
@PeeHaa :'-(
 
In fact I'd happily have a merlin just mounted on something in the back yard, I'd use it to run the dishwasher or something
 
Abe
not ridiculous at all @DaveRandom it's epic :D
 
those poor dishes
 
and ehm… can you please talk about things I might be have any idea of… unlike weird oldtimers for example…
 
Abe
10:59 PM
@DaveRandom ask JC. remember the corvette powered rocking chair? :D
 
@Abe A 5ft high engine block in a car that's barely 4ft at the roof of the cabin? Pretty sure it's ridiculous. It's also epic.
 
@Abe I had read rocket chair… ^^
 

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