« first day (1568 days earlier)      last day (3380 days later) » 

3:01 PM
Nope not sarcastic. That is really how I roll. The fact FIG does the OOP all the things thing works perfectly well for me
I do have a problem with the this is how we are going to do it and you should also do it like this attitude
 
@PeeHaa for instance, github.com/igorw/get-in
ones can create an OO api for that ^
 
I think if FIG didn't already exist, they wouldn't come together today just to propose many of the PSRs that get bandied about now. Their useful PSRs happened because there was a need so some people got together and did it. Now they're a group that keeps trying to come up with recommendations just because that's what the group was created to do.
 
Yes I realize that. And a do see what you people are saying as well. The only thing I say is that for me personally the OOP appraoch works just fine
 
but ones would not create a functional wrapper API based on a OO collections library
 
I know. But I don't care :)
 
3:04 PM
@PeeHaa BUT FIG SHOULD :) BECAUSE PSRs BECAUSE GENERIC
 
Why?
3 mins ago, by PeeHaa
I do have a problem with the this is how we are going to do it and you should also do it like this attitude
 
@PeeHaa Because it's not possible to create 'correct' OO abstractions of things, where correct == right for all solutions.
 
If that ^ wasn't there your point would be moot
damnit @Danack :P
 
Either some stuff is missing from the OO abstraction, (in some people's view) or it is far too bloated and difficult to use (in other people's views). Or both at once.
 
@Danack Nope, but for me it works :)
@Danack Again the problem is FIG way of trying to "standardize" all the things. Not the fact it is all OOP
In most cases you simply cannot standardize solutions for specific and different problems people are having
That is imho the issue
 
3:08 PM
yet again, http is the same problem with everyone
 
@FlorianMargaine Not necessarily. Sometimes I write a simple abstraction which works just fine for me and my use case and I don't need all the other stuff
 
user3949359
Is it possible to fetch with "$_GET" the input of multiple fields with the same name at once?
 
But then the cult comes in and says OMGWTFBBQAPPELGEBAK Y U NO psr-x for that
That is toxic
@nosille The same name or an array?
 
user3949359
I have 3 search fields all over my page, named them the same
 
3:12 PM
@nosille That doesn't work
What are you trying to do, because there probably is a better way
 
user3949359
should I have 3 $_GETs?
 
@PeeHaa No....with procedural code you can just use the bits you want and put them together however you want. On a fundamental level it's not possible to do this with OO code. Classes can be just 'incompatible' with each other and you can't mash them together in any old way:
Jun 6 '14 at 17:39, by Danack
@DanLugg I need to write a blog post on this.....but no. If you use any (including your own) classes to represent the HTTP layer, then you should be able to wrap your classes in a little adapter to use in a different library that uses it's own HTTP representation classes - PROVIDED that your version and the libraries version are compatible.
Jun 6 '14 at 17:39, by Danack
If they're compatible then writing a little adapter isn't a big job. If they're not compatible then it means that the presentation is fundamentally different, and so there could be no 'standard' implementation that satisfies both.
Jun 6 '14 at 17:40, by Danack
This is why I think the PHP-fig efforts to standardise on a Cache PSR are fundamentally misguided. So long as people are using 'compatible' caching classes, writing adapters is trivial. If the cache mechanisms work differently then you can't write a PSR that satisfies everyone.
 
@Danack that's what I was trying to say up there :) thanks Danack
 
Whether a cache is able to store NULL is a good example of this 'compatibility' in action. Some people really want that in a cache. Other people don't. The two types of cache are fundamentally incompatible with each other.
 
3:14 PM
@Danack That's why the entire idea of standardizing it is stupid from the ground up OOP or not
 
@PeeHaa I think all (non-trivial) code exhibits this behaviour...it's not just caches or other 'standard' stuff.
 
@FlorianMargaine Interesting
 
Yep. A shame I need to run it manually on my machine. But I like it.
 
does it add that "generated with DocToc" part by default? 'cause that's kinda annoying
 
@PaulCrovella yeah.
 
3:17 PM
@Danack In general I am more than happy to wrap small digestible classes with a single small and well defined responsibility
 
Certainly objects are useful, and I write 95% of my code with them, but there's a reason why C is still the predominant language for writing libraries rather than C++.
 
But since it's a good tool, I don't care.
 
Double ping because I forgot the key word :P
 
I mean, I care, but it's fine.
@Danack cargo cult?
 
@Danack Tbh I never fully understood that
 
3:18 PM
:P
 
"with a single small and well defined responsibility" which is why I think fig deserves mocking .
 
Yes @Danack don't get me wrong. That is FUBAR :)
 
Trying to make reusable libraries out of OO code in C++ has the same issues as the PHP FIG group have. It's just very very difficult to make a class that does stuff 'right' for how people want to use it in other libraries. Doing it with procedural code may sound fucky, but it's actually a better model for writing re-usable code.
 
@Danack the OO library will preserve state, that's why you can't make it functional.
 
@marcio procedural != functional. The ImageMagick library has lots of state, and a procedural api.
 
3:22 PM
Also fuck you both @Danack and @marcio. I have been trying to start writing code for the past hour(s), but I haven't written a single line yet because of you :P
 
I don't recall ImageMagick
 
I will just call my client on monday and blame you two :P
#FirstWorldProblems
 
@PeeHaa remember the single responsibility principle and blame yourself only!
 
heheheheheheh
BTW totally unrelated. @Danack do you know what the status is of the restrict api of opcache?
Is it already released?
 
@PeeHaa you mean the ability to restrict what methods are called? I'm pretty sure it's always been there.
 
3:26 PM
@Danack The thing were opcache functions are only allowed to be called from specific directories
that ^ one
oh I think it is also already in 5.5
How did I miss that :(
 
@PeeHaa Yes....it's been there a while.
 
Is there any reason it isn't added here github.com/php/php-src/blob/PHP-5.6/php.ini-production#L1875 ?
Should I add it?
 
let me check...
 
neither is it in master. My first PR? \o/
 
finally the IDE argument came up news.php.net/php.internals/81488
> Another observation thing from my side: with proper tooling I almost
can't remember when I wrote the use statements by hand; they usually a) get
automatically managed b) thus alphabetically sorted and c) folded away
in general.
 
3:34 PM
@PeeHaa The last two need adding and can be copied from github.com/php/php-src/blob/PHP-5.6/ext/opcache/… They should both be there but commented out (rather than empty values) due to reasons.
 
@Danack Excellent thanks. Will add them \o/
 
It doesn't default to empty string, it defaults to null - which avoids a strlen call.
 
@PeeHee you can fix the manual bit for it too
 
Yeah just noticed that one too @salathe
Already opened doceditor
 
:)
 
3:36 PM
This is my favourite bit of the opcache manual php.net/manual/en/…
Because it's so clear what the bits do.
 
:D
The reflection stuff still has the best docs :P
Those pages are basically non existent
 
Unhappy fact of the day: the most senior developer where I work (who hearts PHP) hadn't heard of the SPL until yesterday. :(
Raising awareness of SPL is why I got involved in the PHP project all those years ago... I must suck at doing that.
 
:P
 
Which is also known as the 'omg PHP is massive and we need to stop adding stuff to it' problem. I only found out about php.net/manual/en/function.error-log.php a few days ago...
 
I've knew about it before, but I never realized it wasn't binary safe
 
3:52 PM
I think iterators are great.
Exceptions and datastructures in the SPL? Nope.
 
@JoeWatkins "[CI is] nothing to do with phil any more though, hasn't been for a good while ..." absolutely. CI existed before I knew what OOP was, then I built a company around it and was stuck trying to make CodeIgniter better once I knew more.
It WASNT that bad, in the same way that PHP isnt that bad. People will sit around and bitch about PHP or CI for many of the same reasons, and we all know how stupid and trolly that is.
 
Grumble grumble grumble
 
@PeeHaa "Tbf I called @PhilSturgeon a dick once because he merged code without attribution and he didn't think it was bad" I never said I ran around merging code without attribution. I said sometimes its not so bad if the change is trivial. I was talking one or two lines of nothing code and I always put a thank-you in the commit. This has happened about 4 times ever. Apparently this makes me a code-stealing monster.
I saw so many complaints about that in here! Lol
 
you guys are still arguing about that
ah I see you're that Phil guy
nevermind..
 
I dunno I woke up and saw a bunch of replies
so answered them
 
4:03 PM
yeah np
 
@RonniSkansing learnt a lot too and its only been ~4 days for me
 
@PaulCrovella thats what im noticing recently. I'm just trying to write code and get things done. Sadly the road to doing that is paved with rude little jackasses.
on a more positive note, I just got $60 for returning somebodies iPhone!
@marcio "
@Danack I have a feeling PHP FIG is functophobic because "there is no autoloading for functions"
which is not really true, you just don't need to lazy load functions like you do with classes but go figure." yeah pretty much.
also the FIG and its output is a representation of what people are doing in their framework projects. They're pretty much all OOP these days so the output is pretty much all OOP
functions are a bit harder to put into a standard, but people could certainly make some wrappers if they wanted.
 
@PhilSturgeon I don't recall the specifics anymore tbh, but that was not what was said at that point :)
 
@PhilSturgeon I actually meant to respond and disagree with that. I think it's more to do with the fact that declaring types in PHP is a lot easier to do with classes than anything else, and so OO stuff is a lot easier to think about.
And yeah, it's how people write in their code, so again people find it easier.
 
4:09 PM
@PeeHaa ahh everyone freaked out there. Taylor copied some code in, but that guy copied his code in the first place. It wasnt really that attribution-worthy, but it still would have been nice. I was just saying "calm down folks its not that bad, sometimes it happens." and everyone flipped a shit
@Danack yeah, type hints, interfaces, all that jazz. an interface is the perfect vehicle for some of this stuff, especially with return types now
 
<3 @LeviMorrison
 
So from this discussion, it seems like we'd want struct in PHP?
<flamewar>
 
@FlorianMargaine Hell yes. I want it for performance though.
 
@FlorianMargaine I doubt this will start a flamewar though. You failed :P
 
4:14 PM
Well performance and type safety.
 
:)
 
@Danack Performance?
 
@JoeWatkins only just noticed your hug offer. Any time, especially after that special evening we shared in London.
 
@NikiC I'm imagining that when using a lot of data where everything in an array has the same structure, being able to do struct Position {int x, int y, int z} and pass a large number of those items around in generic like container should avoid the high memory overhead of using arrays in PHP, as well as reducing cache misses when processing the data.
 
4:19 PM
@PhilSturgeon I'll gladly accept a hug, if you're giving them away.
 
@Danack Which is what happens if you stick that in a class. Right?
 
He probably want copy-on-write semantics
 
eek
 
I think that could be useful
 
Not a fan of perpetuating the mistake that was made with arrays
 
4:20 PM
@NikiC except you could also avoid the individual class allocations right? ParticlePositions = new Position[5000];
 
That's kind of generics at this point
Although with new implementation of arrays it's already done
 
\o/
 
@Danack You're thinking a bit too far and wide here
 
You're calling me a dreamer? Well maybe I'm not the only one.
 
4:22 PM
@PhilSturgeon so special ...
 
Nope, not calling you a dreamer. Just saying that this is not specific enough to make any meaningful statement.
 
@NikiC are object properties embedded in zval?
 
@nikita2206 Declared object properties are embedded in the object
 
Ah okay I see
 
got an error running make on a different laptop. Not sure what it's all about? gist.github.com/philsturgeon/6255162dd35971c97c5b
im on a clean master trying to make
 
4:34 PM
Hey @PhilSturgeon here you go A free virtual hug from a stranger.. hope you feel better
 
thanks @Ronni!
 
@PhilSturgeon OSX?
 
second warm and tingly of the day
@Danack yeah
 
flees in terror
@LeviMorrison probably knows what the problem is.
 
haha. I had my work laptop up and running in minutes. now im on my other one and its ded
 
4:36 PM
 
Phil, can you show me your configure line?
 
./configure \
--prefix=$HOME/tmp/usr \
--with-config-file-path=$HOME/tmp/usr/etc \
--enable-mbstring \
--enable-zip \
--enable-bcmath \
--enable-pcntl \
--enable-ftp \
--enable-exif \
--enable-calendar \
--enable-sysvmsg \
--enable-sysvsem \
--enable-sysvshm \
--enable-wddx \
--with-curl
(nicked off of the phpng wiki and trimmed down because too many errors with junk I dont have set up yet)
 
@PhilSturgeon run ./vcsclean and retry. It looks like a borked codebase tbh. Did you checkout some branch after compiling or something?
 
looks like parsers weren't generated maybe ...
got bison ?
 
@FlorianMargaine I did notice a few random files sat in there after reporting the error. trying again
 
4:39 PM
are you compiling just to finish the patch for your rfc?
 
I had some test files and junk for another branch
@marcio yeah. lost the magsafe adapater to charge my work laptop haha
 
Vcsclean + buildconf + configure + make...
 
that ^
 
then you don't need all the extensions
 
@marcio yeah I know. I was just following the instructions and removed a bunch. either way the exts arent the trouble
 
4:41 PM
Oh and be careful, vcsclean deletes the config.nice...
 
make clean && ./configure --disable-all --enable-debug --enable-maintainer-zts && make -j8
usually does the job for me when I break something
 
/me saves command
 
@marcio no, that wasn't enough for when I check out ted another branch or stuff like that
 
you need buildconf
 
user895378
./buildconf --force
 
user895378
4:43 PM
^ wonderful and solves all things
 
user895378
And: morning
 
except doesn't always work, will sometimes use cached aclocal.m4 and autom4te.cache ...
which is why vcsclean
 
user895378
./config.nice
 
yeah. And vcsclean deletes the config.nice.
 
user895378
^ Also wonderful ;)
 
4:44 PM
@rdlowrey ./buildconf will suffice.
 
I already lost my config.nice crafted by @JoeWatkins :(
 
can someone translate this for me ?
@_teresko Are there any other options, where maybe you aren’t being a patronizing keyboard-cocky muppet?
I'm not sure what he is trying to communicate
 
user895378
I learned the other day that in windows you still have to pass --enable-cli if you're doing --disable-all (probably because no sane person just decides they only want PHP CLI in windows).
 
@FlorianMargaine keep it outside of source directory and copy or execute in another path will work ...
 
@JoeWatkins yeah, it's what I did after that
@tereško ask him @PhilSturgeon ^
 
4:46 PM
yeah im here.
 
@PhilSturgeon , what where you trying to say with that tweet ?
 
Your two options were "I'm sad because I wasnt mentioned more." and "expecting worship."
is there a third option, where I expect to be treated like a human being?
not bitched about semi-publicly for no apparent reason and mocked when Im not too happy about it?
 
not really
 
thats weird.
 
because your original post looked like a "cry for an attention"
 
4:48 PM
nah, just highlighting the Mean Girl attitude some of you lot seemed to have for no reason
 
I would disagree
noone is really talking about you here
 
other than all the people that were talking about me
 
most of our hatred is aimed at Taylor
@PhilSturgeon you have 20 mentions in that chat search
and only 3 seemed to be offensive in ANY capacity
 
are you kidding me? click on the links
 
I think I called you a twat once, but no context and I was probably drunk
 
4:49 PM
@PhilSturgeon, fyi tereško comes to this room to take out the stress of his shitty job (apparently).
 
@DanLugg seems legit :)
 
Maybe twice, I was drunk a lot
 
tbh I'd greatly rather there were zero mentions. I dont want it to be 100 and I dont expect core developers to give a shit about my framework/cms antics.
 
yeah, and, well, CI.
:P
 
ahahaha right and of course, CI is my fault. :)
and Fuel is my fault. and I think static OOP is amazing design
 
4:51 PM
@PhilSturgeon there were 24 search result when you initially posted it: and from those two where feeds, one was tweet re-post and another one was link to an article
 
and oh god what else was there. so much nonsense
@tereško dude I sat there for an hour reading through the obnoxious crazy shit people were saying. I know what is there.
 
sigh... really wished we could keep a wall between shit we say on twitter and shit we say on the room
 
@PhilSturgeon you should see a professional about that
 
I really wished twitter wouldn't exist
 
@MarcelBurkhard NO, DON'T MESS WITH TWITTER
 
4:52 PM
crap, getting sick again
 
s/twitter/people who use twitter/
 
/main/streams/streams.c:1405:83: warning: implicit conversion from enumeration type 'php_stream_mmap_access_t' to
different enumeration type 'php_stream_mmap_operation_t' [-Wenum-conversion]
...p = php_stream_mmap_range(stream, php_stream_tell(stream), PHP_STREAM_MMAP_ALL, PHP_STREAM_MAP_MODE_SHARED_READONLY, &mapped);
 
user895378
Does it make me a bad person for wishing array Generator::list() was a thing so I could save one fcall to get the key and current value? e.g.:
 
would be better if people could just be objective, and not talk shit about people they don't really know ... criticize ideas all you like, not individuals ...
 
user895378
list($key, $value) = $generator->list();
// instead of:
$key = $generator->key();
$value = $generator->current();
 
4:53 PM
@JoeWatkins only getting this far now
 
@ircmaxell I have told you several times, stop reading r/PHP, it's bad for you =P
 
@ircmaxell oh dear ...
 
@tereško you're awesome at victim blaming
sitting around saying rude shit, then making fun of the person for noticing
 
@PhilSturgeon you are awesome at playing victim
 
@tereško Hey, calm down
 
4:53 PM
haha ok
if i was caught being obnoxious about somebody, and they told me they were offended, i'd apologize and offer them a pint. not insult them further.
 
@rdlowrey I think it does ...
 
:-(
 
but anyhow, this error
 
ohi everyone
mon-ring and such
 
morning @Andrea
 
4:55 PM
@PhilSturgeon you posted a warning message, post a whole message from compiler on pastebin or gist
 
@PhilSturgeon Oh, you're on SO chat now?
 
@NikiC i'm trying
 
@PhilSturgeon warnings can be ignored
 
@AndreaFaulds bad timing lol
 
@rdlowrey you're too lazy :P
 
4:55 PM
they shouldn't be, but won't stop a build ...
 
user895378
@AndreaFaulds You didn't hear? Me and @PhilSturgeon are starting a new boy band.
4
 
hi @AndreaFaulds
 
Obviously @rdlowrey will be lead singer
 
Sorry @AndreaFaulds, cant escape the Sturgeon.
 
4:56 PM
@PhilSturgeon did you run ./vcsclean && ./builconf && ./configure...?
 
@PhilSturgeon It looks like you maybe don't have bison installed?
 
I think bison too ...
 
Cause it looks like the parser wasn't regenerated
 
I'm gonna shoop @ircmaxell, @JoeWatkins @PhilSturgeon and ... I dunno; who wants to be the fourth?
 
try touch Zend/zend_language_parser.y and see if it solves it. If not, install bison
 
4:57 PM
^^ Into that picture
 
ok, its using system bison. brew installing and linking
 
@DanLugg shop it into the base one, then I can swap out the layer
 
^^ Of course.
Can't do it right now anyway, no shoop on this box
I'll save that for an hour I'm getting paid
 
@NikiC how come configure didn't catch it then?
 
@DanLugg NikiC should be, but represented as a ? because we don't see his face :p
That or @tereško as he's p attractive :p
 
4:58 PM
@JoeWatkins got a minute to spare me?
what's the exact name of the lxc package on fedora?
 
@AndreaFaulds lol, I look like horses ars
 
sure, one minute, starting now
 
(yum search lxc)
 
oh I couldn't tell ya, not using fedora
 
oh you stopped? :(
 
4:59 PM
@FlorianMargaine dunno
 
yeah I'm using elementary... it's shiny ...
 
tss
traitor
:P
 
inb4 "elementary is just an OS X clone"
(it's not.)
 
@FlorianMargaine Which version of fedora? On 21 it's just lxc
 
5:01 PM
hm I should try it out
Is it Debian based?
 
@JeremiahWinsley thanks!
 
looks a bit osx-y ... but it's really not ... it's rather nice ...
it has a couple of annoying problems ...
 
@nikita2206 ubuntu based
 
it is debian based yeah ...
 
oh, ubuntu
But they say it's lightweight
 
5:02 PM
all I saw about the dev was kinda bad tho
 
what you mean ?
 
there was some drama... the guy was a douche
 
you can't tell from using the operating system anyway :D
 
yup I have it on my mom's computer... the secondary one, the one used once every 6 months...
.. or twice a year, w/e
 
or even 4 times in two years
 
5:04 PM
Build complete.
 
yeah I put it on a laptop first, it was a really crappy laptop, one of those web book things, it runs real nice on there and thought I'd give it a go ... it does very well on proper hardware too ...
 
@FlorianMargaine Yeah, Jobs was an asshole
punchline snare
 
hehe
 
I'm kinda in pain from Arch on my laptop
 
arch is nice in theory et al... in practice I didn't really like it
I'm too lazy nowadays to setup everything...
too lazy/don't have time, choose
 
5:11 PM
1 message moved to Orphan GIFs
 
/me is going out, for chicken ... lata
 
is there anyway to see the output of failing phpt tests
 
@PhilSturgeon yes, when a phpt test fails, several files are created
a .diff, a .out, etc
same name as the phpt
just cat them
 
oh lovely! thanks
 
Haven't coded php in a million years. Is there a new elegant way to find nested keys in arrays?
 
user895378
5:20 PM
array_walk()and array_walk_recursive() are just as usable as they ever were.
 
@AustinPray this can also be useful github.com/igorw/get-in but I prefer array_walk_recursive() ;)
 
lel array_walk_recursive was not in php4
thank you :)
 
user895378
Wow, php4 ... you were serious about "a million years"
 
user895378
The language isn't remotely the same as it was at that point ;)
 
5:26 PM
How we can login to a website which is having login authentication page from shell script ?(for ex : gmail,facebook..etc)
 
?
 
php has anonymous functions now :0
 
yes..can you assista on this
 
ok, v0.2 of my unimportant little RFC wiki.php.net/rfc/reflectionparameter-getclassname
 
@ircmaxell nice blog
 
5:28 PM
@AustinPray you would need some hours to read the entire change log :)
 
pulled that off my bookshelf lol
 
world makes me sad
 
@AustinPray PHP 5
 
Turkey and Venezuela is imploding, same goes for Russia .. and Greece is starting some crap
 
laters. time for breakfast
 
5:37 PM
its 18:37 here..
 
@tereško this crap is all cyclic, don't get sad because of that.
 
@marcio I live in a tiny country which usually get swept away in those damned cycles
 
@PaulCrovella Remember how in PHP 5 we chucked out PHP 4's entire object model and changed its semantics? lol
 
Well I actually think backwards compatibility isn't that big of an issue when going to php 7
 
yeah
php7 is quite conservative
 
5:40 PM
people won't expect to just update their server and it keeps working IMO
 
sure
oh god
we might end up like the old days
.php5, .php7
D:
 
^^
mysql_query will be completely gone right?
 
@MarcelBurkhard Not in practice
Distros will bundle it
 
it should be moved to PECL
 
I think that conservative major versions is the worst thing a lang can do
 
5:42 PM
@AndreaFaulds are you sure? I don't see that happening
 
it usually means a series of small additions coming through minor releases
and no one will be able to use the new things anyway
 
I think it's going to be great
I actually love 5.3 being EOL now, we finally got to migrate some old shit using magic_quotes et cetera
oh and mysql 4.1
 
@AndreaFaulds I honestly can't remember anything else about the change. I even worked on a backwards compatibility lib for a particular project to handle everything (5.2 down to 4.something). And it's all gone, all repressed.
 
@MarcelBurkhard EOL for array() \o/ !!!
 
We'll just have to see how hosts and major projects pick up
going to take a while I fear
 
5:45 PM
@PaulCrovella trauma does that to you
@MarcelBurkhard depends if people want to run php7 sites and php5 sites simultaneously
 
http://blog.ircmaxell.com/2014/12/on-php-version-requirements.html#twitter-widget-3

I'm afraid wordpress is going to slow than php5->php7 aswell
 
@Danack should I explicitly say empty value instead of "" here github.com/PeeHaa/php-src/blob/missing-opcache-directives/… ?
 

« first day (1568 days earlier)      last day (3380 days later) »