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11:01 PM
Some already know I'm developing a new developer chat (https://dev.kelunik.com) completely based on the amp stack (https://github.com/amphp).
Poll: How feature rich should a mobile version of a developer chat be? (http://strawpoll.me/3523920)
2
 
@Danack the VM is giving some trouble here too, I just dropped it and compiled PHP7 again.
 
@AndreaFaulds shush
 
@kelunik I took my vote
 
Well, markdown support here sucks.
 
@marcio Thanks. I'll open an issue on PHPunit then...not being able to test in a VM is not good.
 
11:02 PM
:)
 
@kelunik yes I would like better markdown here, but on a mobile client I don't tend to write walls of code anyway
 
So uh, back to scalar return types studying. I sure love patching PHP studying.
 
:D ^
:popcorn:
 
@AndreaFaulds removing classes would be nice I guess
 
@igorw we can be a true functional language by only having functions
did you know that all you need is lambdas?
you can express everything in terms of lambdas
even data structures
 
11:05 PM
@Danack Sebastian Bergman will shoot on you, I don't think the problem is with phpunit :)
 
even numbers
strings
anything
 
where you learn that, in some kind of church?
 
@igorw Oh you.
 
I just entered 31th of january
gn8
 
@MarcelBurkhard Maybe not a lot of code, but there are definitely ways to make things easier on mobile clients, like provide extra-buttons for things like backticks or brackets, so writing markdown becomes easier.
 
11:07 PM
@marcio The tests erroring might be aws's problem.....the fact that the output of PHPunit is borked is probably something wrong with phpunit.
 
@AndreaFaulds How about an interface with multiple methods?
 
God I can't wait for function autoloading (@ircmaxell wink wink nudge nudge...), I don't like static single-method classes...
@LeviMorrison ...lambdas.
 
But how do you express that contract?
 
Rule 34.λ: If it exists, there is a lambda calculus version of it.
@LeviMorrison Rather elaborately, but there will be a way to do it.
 
^^ This clearly establishes that feature parity does not mean it's the best way to do it
 
11:11 PM
@AndreaFaulds As usual, it's a question of what "everything" and "express" mean ;)
 
There's a reason most languages that have both classes and lambdas model lambdas as objects and not objects as lambdas.
 
@LeviMorrison Did I ever claim it was? ;)
 
λλλλλλλall.hail.the.(decision procedure)
 
It's occurred to me that I seem to <3 abstraction v. much
So much so even my C code for Zend uses abstractions...
 
11:18 PM
@AndreaFaulds You don't like C++
 
No one likes C++.
2
 
@NikiC Yes, because C++-style abstractions are scary
 
@Danack Well, that's true :)
Some just tolerate it. Like we also do with Java, C and PHP ^^
 
@Danack @SaraGolemon likes it, but she has a render farm of quantum computers at Facebook to deal with the compilation times.
Have an insane dev machine, they say.
 
@marcio That's not quite accurate: I've seen Facebook's "render farm": it's actually a wormhole to another universe filled with quantum computers. According to Zuckerberg himself, was the only way to get HHVM to compile fast enough.
 
11:21 PM
@AndreaFaulds do ssh works through wormholes, that's cool :3
 
@marcio You just need to thread a fibre-optic cable through and it works fine
 
always the simple solution... ^
 
Security-wise it doesn't work out so well... turns out all the algorithms we use in this world can be trivially cracked by quantum computers.
The future state-of-the art is not to be "memory-hard" or "CPU-hard", but "parallel-universe-hard"
 
but seriously now, I doubt quantum computers would make C++ compilation faster ;)
 
@marcio quantum tunneling
3
 
11:25 PM
Evidently, nobody around here tried compiling Scala...
 
@AndreaFaulds In C there really isn't abstractions unless you use function pointers… shudder
 
@LeviMorrison huh?
 
And its lovely friend the void *
 
@Ocramius I never understood the manual so never got into the part ones need to compile something
 
@LeviMorrison No, C has proper opaque types actually
Bigints use them
 
11:29 PM
Defining a struct and an API for it is not necessarily abstraction ^^
 
@igorw you just got a star, sir
 
@LeviMorrison How so?
 
> You have fully used your vote allowance for today
 
Furthermore, C++ doesn't take that away even if you count it as abstraction. But it has the ability to hide members.
 
@LeviMorrison So does C ^^
(and I'm using it)
 
11:30 PM
I can't use more stars today :( they have a star quota
3
 
No, it doesn't. All struct members are publicly accessable.
 
@LeviMorrison Not necessarily.
Opaque types :D
 
There's nothing to dispute. All struct members are publicly accessible. It's not an arguable point lol
 
struct _zend_bigint;
 
That's just a forward declare.
 
11:32 PM
You can completely hide the implementation of a struct, compiler-enforced.
 
@AndreaFaulds Only if you use a struct _zend_bigint * (note the pointer)
 
@LeviMorrison Yes. And you can then only define the struct statically within a compilation unit.
 
If you want it embedded it must be viewable in the compilation unit. That's not hidden.
 
@LeviMorrison Sure. You can't do stack-allocated opaque types, unfortunately. But I'm happy with heap-allocated ones.
It means I can force extension developers to use my abstraction (which is the idea ^^)
 
I can see how bigints is okay with heap-allocated memory since its actual size may vary depending on the size of the value it holds.
For many other things it is not acceptable.
 
11:35 PM
Yeah :/
Well, there's that thing I forgot the name of
the stack allocation function
:p
Ah, alloca
 
surely you mean alucard(3)?
 
Andrea, I have updated the implementation for PHP 4 constructor deprecation, squashed your changes into one commit and am building/testing now. Assuming I have a clean run like I hope then I may send an email today to Internals with the updates.
 
@LeviMorrison Awesome :)
 
Ah bummer. The Open Source Report Card is down.
I liked looking at it to see my recent work get more and more diverse.
 

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