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5:01 PM
@bwoebi just don't turn into elitist please! :)
 
@Tyrael heh, we need to oppose the powers of Zend and Facebook!
 
@bwoebi I already seen a couple of cases of internals/#php.pecl people are stupid comments. I don't that it helps much anybody if we think about stuff like that instead of invidual merrits of the rfcs.
not talking about anybody in particular
 
@Tyrael I agree. I just was joking above...
 
@Tyrael WHERE ART THOU?! I was waiting for you in Brno! :P
 
morning
 
5:07 PM
morning
so weird to say that at 7pm...
and yes, I know about UGT
 
@bwoebi oh, right. kinda forgot about that one ;)
 
@NikiC yeah, it has been 14 days now… so ;-)
 
@Ocr
ehh
 
@Tyrael eh, I know btw, too bad :(
 
@Ocramius sorry, had to visit the hospital instead
yep
 
5:10 PM
@AndreaFaulds did you think about what precedence makes sense for ??? I've chosen it pretty much at random, maybe it should be moved somewhere else
 
@NikiC I think it's actually good precedence
It's the same as ?:, and it makes $a ?? $b ? $c : $d be ($a ?? $b) ? $c : $d not $a ?? ($a ? $b : $c)
It interacts weirdly with ||, but so do the other ternary operators, and they do so in C as well
 
We'd really need to fix ?: precedence … but won't happen I think.
 
I don't see much use of that operator, tbh.
I've been mostly doing it in ctors like: $this->foo = $foo ?: new Foo() and that's awful
 
@Leri $value = $_GET["field"] ?? $default; ?
or what are you referring to…
 
@Leri you mean instantiating objects in the ctor? yeah, that's terrible
 
5:16 PM
@bwoebi That ^. i.e. if argument was not passed in ctor instantiate it
 
@Leri that's terrible… that's why we have rdlowrey/Auryn… :-)
 
@AndreaFaulds are you going to PHPNW in the end?
 
@Ocramius Yep.
@NikiC Ew. ?? is better for that.
 
@AndreaFaulds kewl! \o/
 
@Ocramius are you going now as well?
 
5:20 PM
@Danack nope, I'm actually away during that time, but I was just asking cuz internal stuff here
 
There's going to be a ton of us there
 
Myself, peehaa and DaveRandom will be there the day before having beers in 'The wharf'.
 
I land early Friday morning
and will likely be not drinking that night (much)
 
You know, doing a keynote speech with a hangover sounds a great idea.
We'll be drinking more during the day - I don't plan to be out that late.
 
Ruby is fucking killing me. Ambiguous syntax? Ruby? Nawwwww :-|
 
5:30 PM
@bwoebi I do have my own DiC. /cc @Ocramius :P
 
@Leri Hey! There's just one true DiC!
 
@DanLugg example?
 
@cHao Parentheses and blocks with methods like map.
 
i haven't seen a case yet where ruby itself is ambiguous...it just allows a lot of...shortcuts
 
Okay, "ambiguous" is the wrong word: unambiguous-but-messed-the-fuck-up.
 
5:36 PM
ok, that i'll buy :)
blocks seem a bit too special-cased for my liking
 
Blocks are... arguments? Kinda? But not, because if you omit the parentheses as in arr.map { ... }, all is well. Naturally, I'd assume the parentheses go around the block, as the block would be an argument, but arr.map({ ... }) is invalid. It's actually arr.map() { ... } if you opt to include parentheses.
 
yeah...they're kinda second-class citizens, really. personally, i think i ought to be able to say someBlock = {|arg| doSomethingWith(arg); } and end up with a lambda
 
Also, return in a method? Fine. return in a block? Nope; returns the outer scope. So return is optional in defined methods, but disallowed (for expected behavior) in blocks.
@cHao You kinda can.
@cHao Also, no semi-colons :-P
 
you can have semicolons if you want them. (though of course, your commands still end at the next newline anyway...so meh)
 
So you can. Neat. Surely, they're frowned upon in the Ruby community.
 
5:43 PM
What about back to talking about a saner language… like PHP?
 
@bwoebi AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
 
lol...php "saner"
 
> saner language
 
> like php
 
compared to ruby … yes.
 
5:44 PM
MmmmmffffmmfmfmfmfmmfmfAHAHAHAHAHno.
 
Hello room 11ers
 
"But you can also use "\" as the last character on the line, to continue on the next line."
Nope.gif
 
what's the cat command to put something in a file?
like cat > file <<<EOF... something?
 
Ruby might read like Moon-speak, but the object model is far saner.
 
5:45 PM
echo foo >> file?
 
@Danack Ruby?
 
yes.
 
@PeeHaa I want to write multiple lines
 
lol
 
ruby's a bit messed up, but at least it's somewhat consistent. i still remember when i couldn't say gimmeSomeArray()['whatever']
because php's parser is a steaming pile
 
5:46 PM
s/is/was/
 
^^ Exactly. And until @NikiC's sanity-fixing patch is introduced, you still can't do a lot of things.
 
@Danack Doesn't jabbascrip't also do something like that?
 
@DanLugg isn't it already?
 
@bwoebi Don't get ahead of yourself ;-)
 
@DanLugg I'm just talking about the sanity Nikitas AST introduced…
 
5:47 PM
@bwoebi Well, AST + disambiguated expressions.
 
yea, both
 
@PeeHaa you from Rotterdam?
 
Either way; (IMO) Ruby's object model is a hell of a lot easier to wrap one's head around.
 
@webarto Yeah
 
I'm coming to steal your jobs.
 
5:48 PM
Syntactic warts aside (Ruby appears to be one gigantic wart) PHP is cray-zay.
 
cool. where?
 
I don't know, you need to find me one, are there any jobs there for us in Rotterdam?
 
@PeeHaa only within strings w3schools.com/js/js_statements.asp
 
@webarto What are you looking for? What position?
@Danack Ah right, That was it
 
@Danack a… w3schools link… arrrrghs
2
 
5:49 PM
@PeeHaa PHP dweller... or we can be CEO's of Flareramster Inc.
 
@Danack Every Ruby statement is a C macro ;-)
 
I know coolblue is always looking for developers. Not sure whether they also accept russians :P
I think they have a nice office if you are into that kind of thing
 
@PeeHaa You know me, I'm all for $ and underwear.
 
@PeeHaa "Ken jij een Developer die bij ons past? Jouw tip is €500,- of een jaar gratis aardappelen waard!" lolwut
 
@PeeHaa I am not a Russki god dammnit.
 
5:52 PM
:P
@HamZa hehe
 
If they accepted Hamza they can accept me too.
I'm just saying.
:P
 
@webarto I'm working with Java and C at the moment, don't put me on the same high level as yours :)
 
:D
 
I meant as a citizen :D @HamZa
It sounds like you know shit better than me then.
I'm so impostor syndrome right now.
 
It's in Rotterdam (far from where I am) plus I might need to do an internship, so I'm working a bit on C/C++
^ a robot I'm working on
 
5:57 PM
@webarto i tend to be too. but think of it like this...you know more about programming than like 90% of the world
 
@HamZa YEA!
 
Super cool =]
 
@HamZa aha "work" and "internship"
looks cool
 
@PeeHaa the robot is for a school project. It has a raspberry pi, we need to do it in C. We also need to create an android app with java to control it
 
5:59 PM
Sounds like a fun project
And another one bites the dust stackoverflow.com/questions/26001707/…
 
Sure but with every school project, comes a lot of documentation ( the bad part :P).
 
> What you tell your friends you do
"I build web shops. And no - I will not fix your computer."
 
Yeah. Saw that too :)
 
So if I write drug dealer, that is bad?
Oh... it's NL, that's not bad.
Drugs are legal there.
 
6:04 PM
List that under hobbies.
 
@webarto they aren't
 
@cHao The more you know the less you know, right. Well as long as you get paid for doing what you love to do, meh :)
 
It seems that working at coolblue is awesome
 
@ircmaxell actually travelling Friday afternoon this time, so I'll actually make it in time for the hackathon pizza and beers! \o/
@JoeWatkins did you confirm your ticket allows full day 1 access?
 
@HamZa I'm sensing minimal amount of bullshit.
 
6:09 PM
@HamZa Yeah I think it is ok
 
We offer
Money.
Pretty straightforward.
 
@webarto if the business is good, then why not?
 
@Leigh nice :-)
 
Doing a project this year?
 
yes, working on Recki / JitFu
 
6:12 PM
grumble, I'll look for something easier :P
 
@HamZa No one wants to work with bad business :) And money is the 2nd reason I'm applying for. I don't care about "perks" if I'm not satisfied with payment :)
 
@webarto what if it payed half, but you got free food, drink, accommodation and gym membership?
 
@webarto so the first reason is?
 
the job must be interesting, I'd guess
 
@HamZa Visa sponsorship.
 
6:14 PM
oh.
 
@webarto oh, not chicks then :D
 
Shhhh. Wifey will hear.
Yes.
No.
 
@webarto huh? You can't travel directly to the netherlands or france without a visa?
 
@HamZa I can, but can't work there.
Can't look for job while being tourist.
 
@webarto Hmmm I see...
 
6:15 PM
@Leigh As long as it covers my monthly expenses and adds a bit extra I can live with half :)
 
:P sometimes perks add up to a lot
 
Yeah but lots of times you can't pay stuff with perks.
In current job I'm compensated well but that's about it.
I don't have any free days at all. (paid time off)
And everything else, like 401k, health, vision, dental... mac, phone, stuff.
So if I cover all of that, I would spend most of salary.
I will look for job in Vienna first, I have an apartment there for at least a year, would take a lot of stress to get one.
Salaries are quite miserable... about 2000-2500€ per month.
Rent would be at least 500€, 200€ for maintenance and 100€ for garage.
One hour of service in car shop costs 150€ per hour compared to 15€ where I am now.
Food costs maybe less when you calculate in quality.
 
@webarto UK PHP dev market is totally saturated, you'd be lucky to get that here.
 
And the city is pretty much crime free and everything is decent.
 
@webarto do you need a car? I think public transport is quite good in Vienna
 
6:25 PM
yea, you know how to punt right? :D
 
@Leigh Give or take, 'murica is always the best when I put it on paper :P
 
oh wait, I'm thinking of venice...
 
Haha!
 
going to work by gondola would be classy though
 
@Patrick Not in Wien itself (much) but I would need it because of other reasons. I couldn't drive my own car (that I own now) if I'm working in Austria. So I would need to buy one there.
@Leigh Opulence, I has it.
So @Leigh that leads me to conclusion that what we do isn't paid very well actually.
 
6:30 PM
@webarto Depends. If you work for an agency with X framework just creating cheap sites, then yes. If you get a better job, pay can be pretty decent :)
 
Yes, true dat, but rare are the companies where engineering takes place, and I'm probably not yet fit for that.
 
Vienna, VA :)
Vienna, AT :)
Wien, AT :)
 
:D
still
 
USA is relatively cheap and salaries are the best. But, meh.
No, that's a lie.
> EUR 37,000
Which is gross, and it's about 25k€ after taxes.
 
6:43 PM
@webarto did you check jobs.at/wien/php-entwickler ?
There are a few salaries listed and they are higher than what you posted
 
@Patrick m/f usually means male/female - what does it mean in that context?
 
@Danack same thing
 
Why would you put that on a job advert except for inviting lawsuits?
 
They either write Entwickler/-in to have both m/f covered or if the word is only male (say Developer) they write m/f behind it to not get sued :)
(there are different words for m/f job names in german)
 
Jay
hey guys
I have an issue I am hoping one of you guys can help me with
I have this code:
$placeholders = array_map(function($key) {

             return sprintf(':%s', $key);
        }, $keys);
but the version of php I am running or whatever feature is not turned on is reading the function as a php function
what is the way around this? Does anyone know. Thanks
 
6:53 PM
@Patrick Ah....I should have guessed that.
 
@Jay I dont understand "but the version of php I am running or whatever feature is not turned on is reading the function as a php function"
 
@Jay yes. upgrade your php version. Looks like you are using <5.3
 
Jay
thanks @Patrick
 
@Jay You can use a named function - 3v4l.org/DSfg5
but yeah, upgrade.
 
Jay
nice @Danack
Its not my server its a clients. I will get it upgraded
 
7:05 PM
@Jay yes, upgrade to a modern version of PHP
one released in this decade...
 
ssh in and run php -v ?
 
7:16 PM
@NikiC opinion: gmp_random_*, allow numbers to be negative - gmp_random_bits(-3) would be 0 to -7, gmp_rand_range(-10, 10) speaks for itself.
 
@Leigh no negative bits
the other one should work
 
well it's not actually negative bits, the func i called with GMP_ABS, was just saying the result would be negated
but yea ok, doesn't really make sense
 
bits <= 0 error (or does 0 bits make sense? I don't think so...)
 
You should add infix invocation to php
 
nah, 0 doesn't make sense
 
7:21 PM
should i have any concerns with using a destructor as the point at which to output logged data?
*to the log file
or would it be better practice to manually call to output at the end of my script
...if i explained that sensically
 
@Leigh (asking you because you know about these things I think) say I have some encrypted data, the encryption key, but I don't know what method was used to encrypt it. Any pointers on how I might go about figuring out how to decrypt it?
 
how long is the ciphertext?
without any encoding like base64 or the like
 
Varies. They are wav files, I can probably find some that are a few kb
Key is 512 bits
 
well that's odd to start with :)
 
that's a weird key length
 
7:27 PM
are the ciphertext lengths a common modulus? 16, 32, 64?
 
one sec
 
@Hamster As long as you aren't trying to log to stdout, you shouldn't have a problem. Sometimes output has ended by the time destructors are called.
 
I think 16
 
512 bit key makes me think weak RSA or strong-ish EC
 
@Charles Alright, thanks.
 
7:28 PM
@Hamster Just keep in mind that if your logger is OO, you may run into problems :)
 
or.. XOR :D
 
Possible
 
although, could just try xoring it, since you say you have the key
WAV files are going to have a specific header, so you've got some known plaintext too
 
Yeh iirc somewhere in the first few bytes is the string RIFF (may be the first 4)
 
think RIFF was the format, but still had a WAVE magic number
 
7:35 PM
I suspect (because of what the files are) that it's some flavour of AES-256, as it seems this is required for PCI compliance (they are phone call recordings)
 
right, well AES-256 by it's very nature has a 256 bit key :P
and 128 bit blocks
 
So it's possible that the "key" is have is also fudged around a bit before it is stored
 
so you'd expect lengths to be a multiple of 16, except in CTR mode, then it's acceptable to have any length
do you have access to a black box where they are decrypted?
 
Well, slightly weirdly, every single file's size ends in the digit 8
That's what ls says, anyway
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root      6768 Sep 23 18:47 201409231745270596930.wav
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root    154128 Sep 23 18:47 201409231745300175931.wav
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root     29808 Sep 23 18:47 201409231745300254932.wav
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root    193008 Sep 23 18:47 201409231745360476933.wav
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root    549168 Sep 23 18:48 201409231745390794934.wav
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root    103728 Sep 23 18:47 201409231745410192935.wav
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root    339168 Sep 23 18:48 201409231745460464936.wav
^ small sample
 
whats the smallest you have?
 
7:39 PM
1488 bytes
 
That file is racist.
 
ok, > 512, that doesn't help :/
do you have something that plays them?
 
Oh I found a 528 byte one, hang on I have like 4 years worth of data
 
512 + 16
now this is interesting ;D
might be RSA encrypting a temp AES key
standard way to do public key stream ciphering
 
yup
 
7:43 PM
anyone got a few minutes to spare with me, to explain some stuff related to zval?
 
if I was recording phone conversations, that's how i'd do it, one side can encrypt only, and the key you don't have allows decryption
 
I'd like to know how to reproduce zpp when I have just the zval objects
I'm not sure where to look for that
 
@FlorianMargaine I don't understand what you're asking, can you make a pseudo-code example?
 
"reproduce zpp"?
 
yea that's what threw me
 
7:45 PM
@Leigh Yeh very possible. I may have to do some proper disassembly of it, which is probably beyond the scope of what I'm capable of - I do have the application that encrypted these things, and I suspect that if there is a second key required it will be assembled from other data associated with the call (phone numbers, times etc)
 
and "zval objects"?
 
@DaveRandom really important... do you have something that plays you decrypted wav files?
 
There's something that can decrypt them, yes (or at least, the ones created since about yesterday lunch time)
 
@DaveRandom so in theory you have the decryption key too
 
7:48 PM
dom_nodelist_read_dimension is from there: github.com/Ralt/php-src/commit/…
 
uhhhh, pass the zval as a parameter
 
@Leigh Yeh, it's either assembled from some data associated with the call (which I will also be able to get) or hard-coded
 
uh, I think I just had an aha! moment
@Leigh thanks
 
The latter being the eaiser of the two, obviously
brb
 
is there a point in using static inline instead of static?
 
7:54 PM
@FlorianMargaine in headers it's required. In source files it's often done for small functions
 
inline doesn't make a function call, it brings the set of instructions into your current function
 
@NikiC k
 
like traits in PHP :p
 
@Leigh sometimes
 
I'm not entirely sure what the state of automatic inlining is with compilers, but we generally annotate what we want to have inlined
 
7:55 PM
@Leigh no, it's a hint for the compiler to do so... but not sure what's the "best practice" for the php-src project
 
Are you a student or teacher? If so, JetBrains developer tools are now free for you! Apply now. http://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2014/09/23/jetbrains-makes-its-products-free-for-students
 
ok, yea sorry, trying to be helpful, still a newbie myself and getting overexcited sharing :P
 
from my research into GCC, it has heuristics for inlining. One of which is the presence of the inline keyword. But that doesn't make it inline, it just pushes slightly in favor of it. The dominating factors are function length and call frequency (inbound edges)
So, based on my understanding, there are cases where it will not inline an inlinable function (that you declared inline on) if it thinks it can get better performance through cache locality of it being an independent function
 
thats pretty smart
and I guess functions you might not declare inline, but only call once, it might decide to optimise in
 
exactly
the inline keyword is more there to give the compiler a hint that this function may be a better candidate than it initially thought...
at least that's my understanding of it, I could be wrong
 
7:59 PM
makes sense, also makes other things make sense, I've seen crypto code with compiler hints to specifically always inline
 

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