« first day (1433 days earlier)      last day (3509 days later) » 

7:09 PM
@RonniSkansing not really. If anything, it has become even more hectic
 
@ircmaxell hehehe
evening all
 
@tereško =[ That is awful, hope it treats you better soon. Well.. I heard it is easier to find a job when you got a job..
Wb PeeHaa O/
 
o/ @RonniSkansing
 
new one for me.. like that one
 
:)
 
7:19 PM
Is there a built-in to get a file:// URI for a local path?
Namely, because Windows.
 
@DanLugg realpath and replace \ with / ?
 
@webarto Yea, I guess so.
 
15:19 <dickousineau> jmikola: manages the jazz club at Blue Smoke
15:19 <ircmaxell> really? Why aren't we doing drinks there?
15:19 <dickousineau> jmikola: marcel looks good in the hat
15:19 <dickousineau> ircmaxell: because that place has a minimum decency policy
15:20 <ircmaxell> dickousineau: well, I'm going next time. And if nobody joins me, too bad
15:20 <dickousineau> lolol
15:20 <dickousineau> well remind me next event we create
15:20 <dickousineau> and it'll be our location and I'll bug her about it
lol
 
I feel more comfortable in a shirt than t-shirt. But slacks, yuck...
 
it is a 502 error sorry I left that off. — wadeCunningham 2 hours ago
No, it is not 502. — tereško 2 hours ago
It is a 502 error! — wadeCunningham 2 hours ago
I lolled :)
 
7:27 PM
> weedCunningham
 
wurd curnninghurm
 
@salathe did you vote? :D (not related to @AndreaFaulds vote)
 
7:36 PM
hehehe
 
not really fair that scotland gets to vote to leave, but we never had the chance to vote to kick them out
6
 
lol
 
user895378
Is the only argument against @AndreaFaulds integer RFC BC? Because I don't see any other drawbacks. Am I missing something?
 
$pwd_check = "SELECT `password` FROM `admins` WHERE `id`=? LIMIT 1";
can someone explain that what is wrong with this statement, it somehow fails to fetch the password.
 
@rdlowrey the issue is that people with no business influencing the direction of the language get to vote
 
user895378
7:43 PM
@Leigh well, that has arguably been an issue with every vote since the current RFC process was implemented ;)
 
I consider the "BC break" as previously undefined behaviour
 
Tek
http://who.is/dns/jamiehankins.co.uk

Best XSS hack I've ever seen.
 
user895378
@Leigh same.
 
@Tek lol
 
WTF
global $_REQUEST;
 
Tek
LOL
 
What's that called? Uber global?
 
global -> universal
 
:P
 
7:58 PM
 
I'm sure the WP people would love to have something like that!
 
user895378
@DanLugg that's pretty standard for parsing, though. Usually you have the benefit of goto though instead of an endless switch :)
 
@rdlowrey I know, I was just flabbergasted at it's length (as I always am when I see a 1200 line method)
 
user895378
parsing is all about perf, and splitting up the operation into discrete functions is a big drawback
 
8:03 PM
Doesn't help that HTML5 is borky.
 
user895378
So ... E_HTML ?
 
<hurr><durr>are these self-closing?<who-knows>
/me is hoping for XHTML 2.0 revival.
@rdlowrey I dunno, fuck HTML. I'm pissy.
 
evening
 
yo
 
hey @JoeWatkins
 
user895378
8:06 PM
@JoeWatkins hi there joe. Your pthreads closure stuff is cool :)
 
only took two years :D
 
yay!
\o/
 
user895378
@JoeWatkins I know that feeling :)
 
user895378
Overnight success years in the making
 
:-P
 
8:09 PM
I found many solutions for many things over the last couple of weeks ... looking in pretty good ...
totally stuck on a bunch of other stuff ...
 
@Leigh Like who?
 
been reading about cilk @ircmaxell
Cilk Plus is an extension to the C and C++ programming languages, designed for multithreaded parallel computing. Cilk Plus adds fine-grained task support to the C and C++ programming languages, making it easier to write parallel programs that exploit the multiple processors and vector instructions available on modern CPUs. It provides simple language extensions to express data and task parallelism to the C and C++ language. Cilk Plus can be used for building IA-32 and Intel® 64 architecture programs (32-bit and 64-bit) that run on Windows, Linux, and OS X. Cilk plus provides support for both task...
 
interesting...
yeah, was looking at that
 
I am totally sure that this can be done automatically, totally ... by you ;)
 
rotfl
I actually have thoughts on how to do that
 
8:11 PM
having a shit of time getting libjit to play nice with threads ... and i have no clue why, threads are hard to debug, it's extremely unpredictable right now ... totally stuck ...
it seems totally doable ... by you ...
 
lol
if you can get me a threading API, we can talk business ;_)
 
yes yes, I'm doing it ... it's coming ... got branch and all normal tests passing, so we haven't moved backwards ... but but ... totally stuck ...
 
happy birthday anthony \o/
 
been looking at it too long ...
 
ooh, happy birthday @ircmaxell :)
 
8:13 PM
thanks :-D
@CarrieKendall how was the trip home?
 
yeah so much happy birthday, by the way ...
 
@ircmaxell it was actually pretty entertaining
 
:-)
 
it should be a simple thing, we have a call_t struct that stores args, stack, return, we copy args before passing to another thread, we start thread (eventually to be submit to a pool), we apply, we grab result and use as exit value or store somewhere, but I dunno why none of this is working ... very simple to type in english ... stupid human brain ...
 
i wish i knew your birthday was so close, i would've paid for your drinks :)
 
8:15 PM
It's all good :-)
well, can you do a pool on the backend? So I can just create 1k threads, and you'll sort out actually dispatching those threads (so it doesn't create 1k literal threads)?
 
1k tasks, yeah ... that's the idea, but thought get a simple version working first ...
 
well, sure. Just want to be sure we're on the same page
 
yeah
 
so looking at Cilk Plus, we can do all of that automatically, because we can determine idempotence of a function call or loop body
 
Hello everyone!
I need an advice about use MVC in a project, i don't want to use a framework. someone can advise me any web about it, before a guay send me a link github.com/PatrickLouys/no-framework-tutorial , is good idea to follow this tutorial? I saw that it hasn't a structure MVC.
 
8:18 PM
Yes it is a good idea
 
is better than MVC?
5
 
@JoeWatkins Well, I still need to finish arrays, so no biggie...
I haven't, because I am afraid of them
 
@ircmaxell yeah ... it'll be super easy ... for you ... and I'll probably understand some of it ...
 
@RonniSkansing ok =] could you tell me some advantages over using MVC?
 
8:21 PM
Yes, the "MVC" is imo a bad structure
The tutorial is more openminded and alot more "modern" approach to it
 
@JoeWatkins dude, you could do it as well. All you need to do is realize that a CFG (Control Flow Graph) gives you information about dependencies. So two function calls can be parallelized if they don't depend on one another...
 
@Kakitori Lets turn it around. What are the advantages of "mvc"?
 
Tek
"bad structure", "modern" these are all very vague descriptions. Why don't you actually try programming and make your own opinion on it @Kakitori?
 
yeah I get how it works, totally ... which is why it looks doable to me ... if arrays are allowed to scare you compilers are allowed to scare me :D
 
lol
 
8:24 PM
@LeviMorrison Just ignore the issue with ctors etc for now
It's a mess
Or actually, move those checks into zend_begin_method_decl
 
@RonniSkansing okay, so I will follow the tutorial. By the way, this way of programming has a name?
 
that's where everything else is checked...
 
it's called "programming"
 
hehe
 
lol
 
8:26 PM
but those checks are very weird. we have them duplicated at least three times in different places. Haven't yet gotten around to consolidating all of that
 
why do you care so much about whether it has a TLA ?
 
For the tutorial, I'm wondering if I should add an introduction to DDD or would that just confuse the audience? RIght now it just stops at dependency injection...
 
@JoeWatkins fair enough. :-D
 
@Patrick not really true
 
8:36 PM
what do you mean?
 
your "dependency injection" post has nothing to do with dependencies
instead it talks about DI containers and Service Locators that pretend to be DI containers
oh , and who told you that "dependency injector" is the proper term ?
 
I talk a little about IoC in the chapter before. How is it a SL if it doesn't get injected?
@tereško github.com/rdlowrey/Auryn I took it from here
 
how is Pimple not a SL because it always gets injected ?
 
@JoeWatkins people who don't know what they are doing...?
 
8:40 PM
@tereško I am not telling anyone to use Pimple, it's just on the list of alternative packages to show readers that they can use whatever they want. I guess I should add a footnote that I don't personally recommend those alternatives?
 
yeah .. well , none of those "alternatives" are DI containers
 
@ircmaxell seems like they congregated to talk rubbish with one another in that thread ...
I think I made my point ...
 
@Kakitori could you please refrain from starring every message. tnx
 
yup :-)
 
\o/
 
8:44 PM
tnx @Danack :p
 
oh ... and , @Patrick, what exactly is the point of the "controllers" article?
 
and @salathe ofc :P
 
\o/
 
:)
 
@tereško to show how to dispatch to a class handler method and the code in it is later refactored so that auryn makes the class. If you have an idea on how to improve things let me know :)
 
8:48 PM
then why do you call it "controllers" ?
to cause additional confusions ?
 
@NikiC what's the difference between ArrayDimFetch and ArrayItem ?
 
@tereško I was under the assumptions that it is a name that people coming from a framework are familiar with.
 
@Patrick Yeah, but as a name and concept it kinda sucks.
 
So should I name it handlers? or something else?
 
@ircmaxell ArrayItem is part of array(1,2,3)
 
8:50 PM
Perfect, and is arrayDimFetch used in all contexts (read and write)?
 
@PeeHaa I only have something for 5->7, so not very applicable to you ;)
 
@Patrick It kind of depends on where you want to go with this. Separating concerns is more important than naming, but naming is harder.
 
@ircmaxell yep
 
perfect, thanks! :-D
 
@NikiC Nope :) tnx anyway
 
8:52 PM
@JoeWatkins Apparently Apache MPM does actually perform better than pre-fork....that probably says more about pre-fork than the goodness of MPM.
 
@NikiC Also that 7 still confuses the hell out of me every time I see it
 
@Patrick in your example the "controller" isn't handling anything. It's rendering output
 
@PeeHaa sorry, that was a typo. I meant 5->"7" of course
 
ty :)
 
Ugh.
<?php if ($foo) { bar(); ?> is a parse error. Why isn't <h1>Hello?
 
8:54 PM
@tereško I have considered splitting it into controllers and view, but I have come to the conclusion that this would just add confusion so I tried to keep it as simple as possible.
 
HTML -- Structured documents for people who apparently don't give a fuck.
 
@Charles I am not sure. I just want it to be a resource that we can people point towards when they don't know where to start without a framework.
 
@Danack The worker MPM, you mean? MPM is the name of the thing that lets Apache switch how workers operate. Regardless yeah, the worker MPM is hugely faster than the prefork MPM, and it's perfectly fine to use if you're stuck with Apache / don't want to use nginx.
 
NGINX ALL THE THINGS!!1!
 
@Patrick aside from poor content, the structure of each article also is kinda confusing. If I linked an intern to it, then he would just get confused because "this doesn't work"
what do you think would someone who has been directly lined to that article think of:
return [
    ['GET', '/hello-world', [
        'Example\HelloWorld\HelloWorldController',
        'helloWorld',
    ]],
];
?
 
8:56 PM
@Patrick Education is the key here. You want to show your readers the whys of how a framework operates. Demonstrate areas of responsibility - accepting input, figuring out how to handle the request, validating input in the context of the request, handling the request, operating request-specific business logic, gathering of data as a result of the logic, then presenting the data to the user.
 
@Charles not at serving php, the fastest way to serve php is with fpm ...
the worker mpm has a stupid model ... they aren't worker threads at all, that's misleading ...
 
@JoeWatkins Oh, I'd never consider mod_php and the worker MPM.
 
@LeviMorrison www.php.net/manual/en/language.types.string.php#language.types.string.substr then access the menu on the right -> "Objects" (oops, no menu)
 
@tereško They are not meant to be read separately. I split it into different files because I do not like wall of texts.
 
I'm not sure why it would be that it measures faster, can't say I have observed that, ever ... but the facts are that it doesn't do any good to create a thread to serve a css document of a few bytes, and to do it for every such request, for anything ... that's a stupid model ...
 
8:59 PM
@CSᵠ Works for me.
 
@Patrick there is also no indication that there is anything else to read. THe format that you are using would require a table of contents at the top/
 
and you would also put clear indications under each code snippet for the context in which it exists
I know some basics of php, but I have no idea where to put any the code snippets that I say in that post about controllers
 
hmm ... it's not thread per request apparently ... but it super looks like it when you debug something ... I mean really looks like it ... at least within php ...
 
it is extremely frustrating, when you are learning something new, and you have to deal with code sample that have no context
 
9:02 PM
Why does the order of appending matter here eval.in/195283?
 
ummm... I may have finished arrays
 
oh rly?
 
it scares me...
 
@tereško What do you mean? The first two code snippets represent the whole files at this point and the third contains a few surrounding lines of the file that at this point is still very small. How would you show that context? I don't think I can do line numbers on github
@Charles Thanks. I'll try to expand the tutorial to cover those topics in the future. So would you recommend I skip the handler/controller thing and go straight to views for presenting data and controllers to manipulate the domain model?
 
@LeviMorrison i was suggesting a fixed/follow right menu (have the menu open if you will)
 
Evening
 
@Patrick That's probably an OK starting place, but you should explain to the reader at each step that this isn't the code's final form...
 
heya @Fabien
 
Will do. Thanks
 
/**
 * @param int[] $n
 * @return int The value
 */
function first($n)
{
    return $n[0];
}

$func = Jit::jitFu('first');

var_dump(first([40]));

var_dump($func([40]));
int(40)
int(40)
yay!!!
 
9:10 PM
@ircmaxell Nice
 
w00t :D
 
Now, @JoeWatkins does doLoadElem support referencing the loaded element? So do I need to treat assignment of arrays separately?
/**
 * @param int[][] $n
 * @return int The value
 */
function first($n)
{
    return $n[0][0];
}

$func = Jit::jitFu('first');

var_dump(first([[40]]));

var_dump($func([[40]]));
still 40, 40 :-D
For example: $a[0] = 50; would be doStoreElem($a, 0, 50) or something like that. But what about $a[0][1] = 50;... Would that be doStoreElem(doLoadElem($a, 0), 1, 50) ???
also, you don't support doLoadElem on strings yet :-D
 
ah yeah, we could do strings ...
and yeah, you got it right there ...
well that was quite painless, right ?
 
well, it doesn't support write at all yet...
I need to figure out how to do that best
actually, how to do that at all... with SSA, that shouldn't be possible...
interesting...
not to mention we don't support reallocating the array, do we?
 
9:25 PM
well ...
no
but we could, and will ...
but you can still store in an existing array ...
should be able too ...
 
yeah... I think I'll leave that off for now (array writes just won't work, but I should error that case)...
 
other high level apis provide some horrible bodge so that all functions have some memory, they use an empty but allocated, array basically .... this seems really gross ... we'll just have malloc probably ...
well ...
is there some other api I could provide, is it because two calls required ?
sorry if I seem a bit slow ... I am ...
doStoreElem($target, ...) could work, no ?
 
well, I need to determine when it's a read vs when it's a write
also, I need to do bounds checking...
 
so what kind of thing/tree does $a[0][1] create ?
doesn't it already generate the right kind of tree ?? seems like it would create tmp var and read from it in php, not sure I get the problem ?
 
it does
 
9:32 PM
:|
 
but $a[0][1] = 2 compiles to Assign(ArrayFetch(ArrayFetch($a, 0), 1), 2)
 
no clue what's happening then ...
that seems okay, right ?
 
No, because the second fetch returns an int value... Which is a new variable... No?
 
ah yes
I c I c
no clue what to do about it ... but I get it ...
well
you can just store
 
I can figure it out, it's just non-trivial...
it segfaults locally, so no worries :-X
 
9:35 PM
cool, I probably broke something ... I do that a lot ...
 
it's all good, I'll debug later
 
So, the other thing...
We need a mechanism to raise errors inside of the function
 
exceptions ?
 
yeah, that's what I'm thinking...
 
9:37 PM
okay, we'll have exceptions ... will be interesting first use of objects, which we'll also need ...
 
also: bounds checking is going to suck... It means I need to add a branch around every array access...
@JoeWatkins well, for now we could just use libjits exception system :-)
 
based on objects though
 
I'm talking about raising divide by zero exceptions, etc
 
oh yeah there are builtins
okay yeah we can do that ...
 
RT @StigAbell: Scottish voters have given it 110% according to CNN http://t.co/RrAJMm8lKr
 
9:39 PM
what happens if you divide by zero now ?
 
I don't know
 
should throw already I think ?
 
let's find out
:-)
 
@ircmaxell brilliant ...
 
yeah, it throws
 
9:40 PM
okay so we just want to extend that for a few more ...
oob and the like ...
 
yeah
but should OOB be an exception? Or...?
 
yes, since it could lead to a segfault ...
 
well, no, not what I mean
 
actually that would throw too, null pointer exception ...
 
I can add a branch on doLoadElem to "default" the type...
 
9:42 PM
would it be better if bounds checking instructions were generated at the backend, should they be really since the backend defines the bounds and can detect them more readily ?
 
any of you know a utility for making the mouse cursor "warp", Ex. mouse goes out it left, warps to the right side. Samt goes past top, comes out of the bottom?
 
exception stuff bit messy actually ... we will expose it anyway, but maybe better to do bounds checking generation at the backend, not sure ?
 
if you want to do the bounds checking, I;m in :-)
that means I'm done for today :-D
 
well I'm not that eager, just putting it out there as a possibility ...
we have to expose this stuff anyway, so, it you think more elegant or for whatever reason better at the frontend, then I'm happy to just get on with exposing this stuff and letting you work it out ...
we need a new exception type
but not really sure how to do that ...
 
it's safer for you to do
because ultimately someone using JitFu shouldn't be able to generate a segfault
that needs to be safe... Otherwise this whole thing tumbles
 
9:49 PM
there's an awkward overlap ... it would be better if the frontend defines the type but the backend has to know about it to handle it ...
that's true yeah ... ok, will do it ...
 
well, you know the type, don't you?
 
we'll talk about what that should look like in detail ...
type of what ?
 
the array
 
I mean for exception stuff
 
also: we should implement hash tables... Will make this stuff MUCH easier...
 
9:50 PM
but slow though ...
 
well, faster than we'll generate for dynamic arrays...
 
int jit_insn_throw(jit_function_t func, jit_value_t value) JIT_NOTHROW;
 
plus we won't have to copy arrays on the way in
 
yeah but it's one or the other though ... we should talk about what that should look like too ...
 
yeah, we'll chat in 2 weeks on that one :-D
 
9:52 PM
yeah
I totally meant to ask about who it was I need to contact about ticket, I forgot to do it last time ... because useless ...
 
Lorna Jane
@lornajane, Leeds, UK
PHP and API specialist dev/consultant, author, speaker, open source project lead and trainer. I am freelance, ping me if you need me on your next project!
10.4k tweets, 7.5k followers, following 47 users
she's on IRC a lot on Freenode
typically in #joind.in
I'm out, catch ya later :-D
 
cool, lata ...
will do some stuff tomorrow ...
 
Maybe "better" stands for "broken every time this evaluates, really"
 
/me sleeps
 
10:39 PM
Late night cat gif!
 
10:54 PM
@rdlowrey @salathe objected to the fact he doesn't see a point in the change
Which causes problems for me
because any No vote on a 2/3 majority vote requires 2 Yes votes merely to neutralise it
ugh
I wish people would vote for it as it means I have less changes in the bigint RFC
All this stuff is in that RFC anyway
 
11:24 PM
That's actually an interesting point; say you break out part of a larger patch into it's own, and put it to a vote and it is declined. How does that bode for the larger patch going to vote? I understand there're provisions to accommodate "significant" changes to the declined feature, but would that constitute "significant"?
I don't see it as "significant" changes, just reintegration with it's source origin.
 
@DanLugg More likely to pass when combined with bigints themselves
Since there's a clear benefit
 
Surely, but playing devil's advocate as "dem der rules be da rules"
@AndreaFaulds Also, I've always been curious; rather than have int overflow to float, why not have it spill into a GMP-like implementation?
 
@DanLugg ...that is what the bigint patch does.
 
Oh. Derp, okay :-)
 
Literally spills into not just a GMP-like implementation, but GMP itself.
 
11:32 PM
que?
 
@AndreaFaulds Reading is for the winrars.
 
11:45 PM
@Fabien :D
 

« first day (1433 days earlier)      last day (3509 days later) »