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00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

user895378
5:00 PM
@bwoebi and @crypticツ Yeah it's fairly stable -- though I don't think 1.0.0 is appropriate at this stage. But I'm okay with actually starting tagged releases soon. We can start with v0.1.0 and go from there. That way it's usable in real projects with real dependencies. We'll try to get something tagged this week.
 
user895378
@Leri looks nice in chrome, but I don't know anything about cross-browser styling so take my opinion for what it's worth :)
 
@rdlowrey Thanks. Since I don't support below IE 10 it looks nice everywhere I guess. :-)
 
user895378
lol probably
 
user895378
The last time I did any real front-end anything people were still fighting with IE6 so I'm seriously behind the times in that area!
 
@Leri there are only two labels there. Is it intended? If yes, then - color gamma looks well. As for the font - hm. That remind me of some "enterptise-style"
 
5:05 PM
@rdlowrey haha. Actually, my front-end development skills also suck. I know just basics and try to put them together.
@AlmaDo It's intended to promote my projects for the end-user, so I guess I need to be little bit "enterprisy", imho.
 
@Leri if so - then, that looks ok
 
@AlmaDo btw, have not seen you around for a while. How're you doing?
@Gordon Thanks.
 
@Leri pretty busy. Doing much stuff. Most of new things are new for me. There are good things as well as bad things too. Fortunately, bad things are outnumbered by good things
 
Glad to hear that.
 
5:11 PM
this Friday we had a nice talk about DDD and how to proper apply it for our codebase refactoring
very important thing is - that we have planned time for refactoring and PM together with product owners know what is that and why it's needed
 
That's pretty rare in enterprise world.
I am almost never allowed to refactor old projects...
 
@AlmaDo does your product have that much business logic?
 
the bad thing, however, is that codebase is huge and we're using ZF 1.11 :/ But there's hope to move to another, better thing. At least ZF 2.x+
@Gordon looks like it has. I'm not aware of all the stuff. System is too huge, so I know only little part of it
but I'm only a month there, though..
 
@AlmaDo how many lines of code is huge?
 
@Gordon huh. Good question. May be millions :)
 
5:18 PM
@AlmaDo millions? okay, then it probably does have enough business logic to invest into DDD
 
I have no access to all parts as well.
But applications, which I can observe, may be several hundred thousands lines..
 
Did not think such large applications exist on php besides the one. :D
 
And yeah, they want to move to isolation of applications, so implement it as different services. Right now it's 2-3 weeks deploy cycle, which is awful in terms of how many changes are coming from >50 devs backend plus > 50 devs frontend in that period
 
yeah, microservices is pretty hip these days
so is event sourcing and cqrs
 
exactly. And they are aware of how crappy and coupled our current system is and how difficult will be to decouple even most important API-s from there
 
5:22 PM
if you got a reasonably large codebase it makes sense to use all that. for everything else DDD means DDDifficult
 
but they strongly want that
yeah, and they want also to support automatic versioning of API-s ..
 
@AndreaFaulds I kind of like that we don't have function autoloading. I wouldn't oppose it, though.
 
so puppet will work together with composer (somehow)
 
@LeviMorrison Huh, why?
 
I think people fear the bootstrap process too much.
 
5:25 PM
?
 
^ lol :p I cant imagine even how to write tests without bootstrapping certain test cases :p
 
@AndreaFaulds I'm not going to pretend I have a good reason. I just kind of like that we don't have it ^^
 
@AlmaDo Well, process is correct and not chaotic as it's for me.
 
Hm, there are still bad things which they want to improve. There is a meeting every two sprints so to tell what is bad, focus on it and pass to PM team and further. That's why we have planned time for refactoring and planned time for architecture meetings
however, not all things may be decided easily. Sigh . Most likely because lack of QA resources. We have only 15 QA guys.
May be 10-15 new guys will come soon, I don't know
 
@AlmaDo Well, I have only two interns and one front-end dev and there're few shitty projects... So that's really good situation, imho. Especially, if stuff is increasing.
 
5:33 PM
@AndreaFaulds Any update on the safe casting functions RFC?
 
@TheodoreBrown I'm gonna put it to a vote when 2 weeks have passed, which will be tomorrow or the day after, I think.
Except, well
argh
 
@AndreaFaulds Will there be a separate vote on exceptions vs null vs false?
 
Yes, that's always been in the RFC.
 
@Leri yeah, it is. But devs team is also growing
 
@AndreaFaulds Ah, nice. I hadn't noticed that.
 
5:36 PM
we have 3 floors now.. 4, 5 and 6. And on 3-rd floor there are amazon guys. So looks like we'll kick them out :D
 
@Gordon LOL
 
@Gordon As half kiwi I am offended. At least it should have been about sheep.
 
@Gordon Russian capitalism: You have two cows. Gop-stop. You owe two cows.
 
Don't forget about the alpacas! http://t.co/oopwsIzwAS
 
5:49 PM
@AlmaDo Poor amazon. :D :D
 
@Leri we still have an option to extend space on each floor. But not all of them and that is a problem. I hope in 6-th floor, which is mine, it will be possible. Because devs team is growing and we have support team too, sysops team, QA team etc. - not too much space for person, if keep growing
 
Is it noisy?
 
hm.. no, because there are sections. Each team is separated by noise-separator door
frontend team isn't a problem for backend team etc
 
@AlmaDo Sure it is
They are ALWAYS the problem
 
inside the team.. well, all meetings are scheduled, no meetings are allowed is they are not scheduled
 
5:55 PM
That's pretty nice.
 
@PeeHaa well so far.. they are screwing our vagrant configuration :D but it's ok, they are good guys too - so at least they try to get along with other teams
not long ago they moved to gulp and that was pain in the ass for others, since they forget to add some dependency and then puppet blew up..
 
Well, front-end is still downlooked today but... without them project will never be successful nowadays.
 
yeah. We have huge frontend team
and nice thing is - separation of concerns. They have no idea what's going on in backend, just using provided API. We have no idea (kind of, usually we still have that idea :p ) how they render our application and how they are implementing UI
I have my hands full with backend tech. stack for now, so may be when I'll be more familiar with the system, I'll discover more what's going on in frontend, but not now
 
Return json (or xml, if project is damn old) and don't give a f*ck
:D
 
it's json which is returned from Solr :D
that is because mysql fulltext sucks
well, not only fulltext. most of stuff. Indexing is much faster if do that in separate layer. So mysql is only for storage
 
6:03 PM
I always index my data in DBMS. Do you say that it's better to do it at application layer?
 
aand, this is where another land mine lies: EAV .. doh. I'll try to do something with it
@Leri well, no. Another layer which is still data-representative layer (it's not part of application, it's part of environment, on which that application relies)
and that is debatable where and when such layer is needed. And if it will be faster. In our case, when selection is more important and data changes are not too often (they are often, but in comparison with selections - still not too often), separation of indexing may grant benefits
 
@AlmaDo just use elasticsearch and be done with it
 
@Gordon well, currently it's solr. I don't know why - since before I never used elasticsearch or solr as well
I guess I'll figure out the reason later
 
@AlmaDo it's a standing project and ES is hip stuff, so it probably wasnt around when the project started
 
because for now I have a feeling that at least most of solutions are made by analysis & research, so it should be some reason
 
6:12 PM
@AlmaDo Fair enough, but I think doing that without need is overkill and may slow things down.
It's just me, though
 
@Leri each solution has it's own situation to be applied
@Gordon yeah, may be. I've seen code with copyright from 2010 .. so..
at least they are very worried about - how much coverage in terms of tests our codebase has. We write lots of unit tests and also new acceptance tests (CodeSeption-based) solution is coming soon, it's for testing our controllers
that is why each dev is interested in writing good code - since, obviously, he will write tests for that - without it no feature may pass even to develop stage
 
6:29 PM
@Danack eih, well. I had these four wrong too… (or 4 others in approximately that range)
 
Yeah, blue sucks.
 
@Danack any progress with remembering about edit&continue?
 
Yeah....though I realised something else; I'm also going to add a feature request for a 'dump all memory usage', because currently it just sucks that you can't see what is using memory in a PHP app.
 
@Danack so, it should recursively run through everything allocated and order by used memory?
or what do you mean with that?
 
there's an equivalent functionality in Java which is probably worth looking at. I think it doesn't so much order, just gives a report of every allocation grouped by object type (I think....been a while since I used that as well...)
 
6:38 PM
@Danack only issue is, that it is not transparent to me what the storage of internal objects is (which type e.g.) So I only can fetch what's defined through object properties and normal arrays.
And have to stop when I encounter an internal object
 
Anything would be better than nothing.
 
Yeah… but you'd not be able to see what leaks when it's hidden in a SPL* datastructure
 
And that would be a just punishment for using an SPL data-structure.
btw krakjoe/phpdbg is the correct place to open feature requests?
 
yes
@Danack a $this which is only reachable by a closure (all references to original object destroyed, except that one) would be unreachable too.
(well, except I manually define where it needs to search…)
 
user3949359
6:54 PM
Hello everyone
 
user3949359
I've been programming with Bootstrap, JQuery, AJAX, LESS CSS for a while, but I'm still not experienced with PHP
 
user3949359
How much RAM do you need to have PHPStorm/another heavy IDE running smoothly?
 
good mornings
 
@nosille it's on their homepage...
 
user3949359
I know, I just don't think their minimum requirements are reliable
 
user3949359
6:58 PM
for example, how much RAM do you have currently?
 
I don't use an IDE
 
user3949359
do you use a browser then?
 
huh?
If you are talking about editing files, I use sublime at the moment
 
user3949359
Chrome is sucking out all my available RAM when I have more than 5 tabs open simultaneously
 
user3949359
I talk about the editor you put your code in.
 
7:01 PM
@nosille Even with a couple of large-ish projects open PHPStorm is currently using half a gig of memory. I've seen it get up to about 1gig after a long time. And yeah, Chrome is just fucking useless at the moment. i'm having to restart it every other day.
 
user3949359
I was thinking about upgrading to 8GB of RAM, motherboard wouldn't support it however. Another thing that might help my PC's performance is to go back to Windows 7 ultimate x86 from my current one (Windows 8.1)
 
@nosille Tried firefox? And as I said, I use sublime text 3 but I'll give PHPStorm a shot some time in the future
 
@nosille The more ram the merrier - but getting an SSD if you don't have one is also awesome.
 
I used to code on a shitty netbook with 1GB Ram for a while, it should really be a non issue if your computer is from the last decade.
 
@bwoebi I think I was imaging that phpdbg would be able to replace the standard malloc routine with a debugging version that kept track of all zvals......though when I write it down, it sounds less likely to be feasible.
 
user3949359
7:04 PM
I like Notepad++, but PHPStorm and WEBStorm are more interactive and they have so much more shortcuts to save you time.
 
@Danack well, phpdbg already replaces emalloc(). The issue is just that emalloc() is passed a number which is the size of the chunk to be allocated, in bytes. I have no idea whether it's a zval or not.
 
user3949359
Never thought about a SSD. Will definitely check it out. Sounds interesting.
 
@Danack a zval is 16 bytes. How can I say that it is a zval or a zend_string of size 16 bytes?
 
@bwoebi "....though when I write it down, it sounds less likely to be feasible."
 
yep
@Danack Java has the advantage that everything is stored in a way well-known to the vm...
 
7:09 PM
yeah....I wonder what happens with JNI stuff in Jmap.
 
@Danack will be probably invisible though.
 
hello, anybody have experience with WP plugin development, I have a quick noob question...
 
@DušanRadojević You are unlikely to get much help here - try wordpress.stackexchange.com maybe?
 
sounds good, thanks
 
@Danack I really doubt we can have a helpful tool for debugging memory leaks in PHP… mhm.
 
7:54 PM
@tereško Yuck.
 
This is going to sound like a horribly stupid question, but what's the best way to do stuff in the background via php without it showing to the end user? By this I mean, I'm executing an SSH command in a php script, and because of this the user is stuck on the page until the command fully completes which can take a bit. Is there any way to set this task into the background so that the user can still browse the website while it's going on?
Maybe I'm better off asking this in a question..
 
Are you looking for a ajax request?
 
8:11 PM
I guess that would work best in this case
though wouldn't they still be stuck on the page until the request finished?
 
8:49 PM
@VoidWhisperer nohup
Or whatever, just execute it non-blocking mode, that's what you're after probably.
 
@VoidWhisperer What webarto said, or implement a job queue with workers that handle it. But sounds like overkill here
 
Hi! How would you compare, with PHP, a `time()` (ie an integer counting seconds from 01/01/1970) to MySQL field name `date` which was filled with `NOW()` (which is a formatted string stored like `date timestamp(14) NOT NULL`) ?

Should I convert the stored result of `NOW()` back to seconds from 01/01/1970 ?
 
@Basj looks like both your dates are timestamps and whatever you are using to view the db with is converting it to a readable date?
 
@Patrick in the DB : stored with SQL NOW(), in PHP : I wanted to use time()
 
9:02 PM
@Basj what do you think that timestamp(14) is?
In case that you really need to convert a date to a timestamp: stackoverflow.com/questions/14014641/…
 
@Patrick when I do SELECT date ..., it is always displayed as a string like 2013-04-02 12:45:34
 
@Basj are you doing the select in your php code or in phpmyadmin or whatever you use?
 
@Patrick yes in the PHP code
This dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/datetime.html says that MySQL converts TIMESTAMP values to time, but I don't see if it is internally stored as an integer (seconds from 01/01/1970) or as a string... Do you know ?
 
@Basj have you tried FROM_UNIXTIME(date) ?
 
@Patrick I want to do the contrary: when I read the DB with : $sql = "SELECT id, text, date FROM comments";
then in PHP, $row['date'] is a string, and I cannot compare it with PHP's time()...
 
9:09 PM
@Basj try $sql = "SELECT id, text, UNIX_TIMESTAMP(date) as date FROM comments";
oh wait
 
it doesn't work
 
fixed
 
It's the same : $row['date'] is a nice string with date like 2014-.... and not an integer with seconds from 01011970
Do you have a clue why @Patrick ?
 
@Basj debug it. run the query directly against the db etc
I don't know your code/db
 
 
1 hour later…
10:29 PM
Sup
Can anyone tell me if this seems a bit correct following the pricing:
 
@AndreaFaulds https://github.com/bwoebi/php-src/compare/soft_ext_dir that should fix your issues with building phpdbg... Before I push to php-src, I asked someone else to verify that everything's still working… as build affects everything…
@MikeM. search something which doesn't impose such arbitrary limits… some vserver with root ssh.
 
@bwoebi I don't need that much
 
@MikeM. Like "I want to try a newer PHP version, but it's not available!"… with ssh, no issue… apt-get install… without… hmm.
 
@bwoebi It's for testing my software on free hosting....
 
ah well… then, I assume, the free hosting is enough…
 
10:41 PM
I develop in a virtual machine with xampp which I can manually upgrade/downgrade PHP versions...
I also have a Windows Server 2008 R2 with PHP and IIS on a virtual machine.
so no worries :)
 
but why would you need to test it on free hosting?
Except you do really weird things… no need for testing that…
 
@bwoebi Because I want to know if it is working on multiple free hostings so I can add that aswell
and yet be fast enough ofc.
Just making things sure for my own :)
 
@MikeM. if it's <50 ms on a normal os, it won't be too slow on free hosting either
 
It's a personal project.
 
@bwoebi :D
 
10:48 PM
@AndreaFaulds yup, it literally took me hours (around 5) to grasp what's going on in that fucking build system
And then yet another 2 hours to try patching it.
 
It's so much morons on SO who just blindly downvote and cannot explain why they do it
:-(
 
11:14 PM
hi all, anyone have a lil time?
 
don't ask to ask… dumdidum…
 
9 hours ago, by Danack
Jul 27 at 21:28, by Danack
Hello, I have a problem, but I am too lazy to write the question out until some says that they will help me. http://sol.gfxile.net/dontask.html
 
11:32 PM
0
Q: How do I set the last amount after discount?

E.H.BStill active* I made a coupon code system for the admin to create new coupons. On the form, I need to calculate the last amount to be paid after the discount. I wrote the if(!empty($discountCode)) { $amount = ($unitCost - $unitCost * $couponDiscount / 100); } before adding the shipping costs...

 
@Danack thought you'd want to post another issue too…? ;-)
 
@bwoebi Hmm, no? Just the memory dump and the edit continue......unless I'm getting old and forgetting something....
 
@Danack damn… didn't see that you already posted the latter
sorry
 
np.
 
@Jimbo it should be "facade" and no facade
 
11:46 PM
@Danack okay, replied
 
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