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3:01 PM
Just another day of work citizens. -Superman
 
I want to make notifications like on Facebook, which framework do I use? Should I use AJAX, jQuery or Javascript? Or just HTML5 and CSS3
 
Jquery, it can do everything, include clean your closet.
 
@webarto AJAX has more RAM
 
ok, i tried the bycrypt from the link leigh gave me... it does work, but how do i know its strong???
 
@ircmaxell I got my answer by filing a bug report on the MongoDB jira, and Derick who answered is one of the 10gen devs. But my point is made. I'd like to think that most people who frequent this chat will have seen how we treat bad questions, and go the extra mile because of it. I'd hope that nobody here has unanswered questions because the question is terrible, rather that the question is difficult, or hasn't received the attention it deserves from people with the right expertise.
 
3:02 PM
@blackbee Run over it with your car?
 
i don't have a car
 
hey fellas
 
@blackbee Then you are in luck my friend, for the low low low price of $1999.09 dollars FREE I can run over your computer for you!
 
@Leigh I agree that from time to time it happens that good questions don't get answers. But far more often than not it's the fault of the question
I forgot I was posting this today... lol
 
anyone know why sessions would die even though the session.cookie_lifetime directive is set to 0 and the browser was never closed?
 
3:03 PM
So, You Like To Read?: One of the things that I see repeated over and over again is the simple question "What b... http://bit.ly/MpRxx6
2
 
ow from run over my computer i remember, what is meant by costparameter of the encryption
 
@AndyPerlitch , server reboot
 
@tereško it happens a few times a day
im lookin at this question: stackoverflow.com/questions/10748670/… even though im not using kohana
it seems like session.gc_maxlifetime might be promising
extending that or something
 
posted on July 13, 2012 by Anthony Ferrara

One of the things that I see repeated over and over again is the simple question "What books should I read to become a better developer?". Or "How did you learn about that?". Or even "What does a coding standard matter?"... OK, so that last one was a bit of a sentinel question, but the point is clear. Where should you look if you want to read to improve your development abilities? Well, I figur

 
Also @ircmaxell in relation to my door code youtube.com/watch?v=qwX0jesAGdI
 
3:16 PM
@ircmaxell thanks, will start, I just don't like that kindle version is the same price as paper ones...
@tereško you've said anti patterns by bill karwin once, and some more, care to share?
 
hack happens
 
hacks are mark of bad developer .. you either get hacked because you suck , or you hack around some limitation (either your limitations or limitation of some of tools that you use)
 
hacking is cool until hackers have something to hack
never encypt, no hackers... stay safe
 
.. and there we add another person to ignore-list
 
nooo. i am already half-kiled at so
 
3:21 PM
@tereško or you hack PHP and add awesome new features
 
@AndyPerlitch are you using httponly cookies?
 
haha
 
@webarto antipatterns was sooooo good
you mean as opposed to db cookies?
yes
sorry, not the best with jargon
 
never got time to read anything <-- noob :)
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/08/protecting-your-cookies-httponly.html not exactly
 
42 mins ago, by Leigh
@blackbee What about... a stack overflow, for indians
I thought that we already have one .. https://stackoverflow.com
 
3:23 PM
i was thinking of the proposal
and then i saw a chat room for indians
 
@AndyPerlitch I guess you are not, forgetaboutit
 
@tereško You broke your 10k cherry, didn't see until now, congrats
 
tnx
 
@deceze LOL
 
3:25 PM
we all together will be more than 10k... its power of unity.. i suppose
 
if(!$experiencedPHPprogrammer){$askHowToBuildWebsiteOn_SO=true;} — Event_Horizon 17 secs ago
 
what is this code <div id="home" data-reference="abcxyz">
 
if nothing, certificate is good to distance yourself from these "I have good experience programming in php" people...
 
@blackbee An HTML <strike>element</strike> tag.
 
whats its use? i recently learnt role element
 
3:27 PM
You didn't learn anything if you are asking how to use it......
 
/ignore
 
and it's not an element
 
52
Q: Why "What Stack Overflow is Not" was deleted

Shog9I just deleted What Stack Overflow is Not, a collection of various explanations for things that Stack Overflow doesn't do, wasn't meant to do, or shouldn't be used to do. Several people put a fair bit of time and effort into it, so I felt I should take a minute to explain my reasoning... First I...

it only takes one moder to make this place worse
 
i don't know... i said i am new very new to this....
ok fine the arai-landmark called role
 
@tereško Quick question, do you play TF2?
 
3:31 PM
no
 
I saw someone with your nickname the other day
 
how to and where to use data-reference
 
i use different nickname for games and game-related sites (as i .. nickname that is not my surname)
 
@blackbee if using jquery you can do $("#home").data("reference");
 
gameresko
 
3:32 PM
@deceze if you edited bc my comment, i meant the role "element" was not an element. tag v. element in that case would be splitting hairs. trying to give blackbee help towards differentiating between elements and attributes.
 
aw
i am not interested with jquery and ajax... i suck at both...
its so difficult
 
@blackbee AJAX is something worth your time learning.
 
It's not that difficult, it can easily result in spaghetti code though
 
@dyelawn OK, but tag is indeed more appropriate in this case. :P
 
don't feed the troll guys
 
3:34 PM
"I just walked five extra steps to throw away a candy wrapper instead of littering, but since somebody decided to get rid of the garbage can, I guess I'll just toss it on the floor instead." — Mike Jun 27 at 15:17
 
I have a feeling I just started a sh*t storm...
 
where?
 
anyone familiar with ubuntu 12's vpn stuff
 
brace yourself, s* storm is coming
 
3:37 PM
@ircmaxell lol
Indeed a sh*t storm is coming
 
:-X
 
Guys, which MySQL API do you use and why, PDO or MySQLi? We are still developing using the old mysql interface and need to look into the newer options
 
news://news.php.net/ << Lol, doesn't seem like a valid link
Unless there's some 3rd party software I'm not aware of capable of parsing such links?
 
@nonshatter have you checkout out this article?
if you have specific requirements, that should be your first stop
 
@blackbee: please stop spamming the room.
 
3:40 PM
@Mike what about it? currently working on a ubuntu VPN for a project.
 
@dyelawn i figred it out
 
cheers @orourkek
 
can someone xplain how does this work?
for($i = 0; $i < $count; $i += 16) {
$this->randomState = md5(microtime() . $this->randomState);

if (PHP_VERSION >= '5') {
$bytes .= md5($this->randomState, true);
} else {
$bytes .= pack('H*', md5($this->randomState));
}
}
i didnot make this, it was from the link
leigh gave m
 
@blackbee how do you think it works
 
@ircmaxell Magnets
 
3:49 PM
i think its iterating the md5 encryption
 
> iterating the md5 encryption
what?
 
@ircmaxell I was just thinking this morning of picking up another PHP book, and was about to start browsing around - guess what blog post was #1 on my feed reader? :]
 
:-D
 
but what is pack("H*",.....)
 
just ignore him
 
3:49 PM
so, thanks in advance!
 
@tereško I guess I'm gonna have to he's been around all morning
 
@orourkek , that book collection is not really for people who are looking for a "php book"
 
@webarto oh lawd
 
i all morning? its night now
 
3:51 PM
@tereško well I'm not necessarily looking for a PHP book specifically, just something that I haven't read before that will be helpful in my ventures
 
@EventHorizon and it's even worse stackoverflow.com/a/11473920/424004
 
ircmaxell!! how does it work!!
 
@blackbee pack() But this function is only called if the script is ran on or less
 
Why do you folks use PHP when better alternatives exist?
 
not only pack.. the whole piece of code
 
3:53 PM
here we go again...
 
because php starts with p
 
No really... serious question.
 
because "better" is entirely subjective?
 
Persuade me to learn PHP over Python..
 
@JimNorton , go back to your C++ room to troll
 
3:54 PM
@tereško I'm not trolling
 
oh , but you are
 
@blackbee It generates a random-esque flow of bytes.
 
@JimNorton if you don't like PHP, don't use it...
 
Have a nice weekend, guys~
 
Nope.. it's a serious question.. I have to do some web development and I'm trying to figure out whether I should use PHP or Python or Ruby.. or...
 
3:55 PM
thanks
 
@JimNorton , do you know either one ?
 
Xeo
I'd like to state in the interest of the C++ room that @Jim is here on his own accord without proper feedback from the rest of the C++ room :)
 
that HTTP only post by Jeff was interesting
 
riiiight
 
@tereško Just a tiny bit of PHP... not much Python.
 
Xeo
3:56 PM
@tereško Join us and read the log, you'll see
 
@JimNorton What's your experience?
 
@ircmaxell typo on your blog post, first sentence about the Clean Coder :P
 
@ircmaxell In web development.., Perl.. primarily C for other things
 
@orourkek fixed
@JimNorton So mostly procedural languages? Any significant OOP experience?
 
3:58 PM
@JimNorton If you really aren't trolling, php was the first server-side language i learned, after having done a lot of ui/ux work. i chose php solely because i was turning down a lot more job offers for php than for python. If you are trolling, well, at least you're not blackbee
 
@ircmaxell Not really... I'm just now starting to learn C++.
 
@JimNorton in that case the benefits of php would be : only c-like language from the list; almost no skill required to start writing in it ; a lot of code samples online ( downside: a lot of very crappy code floating around too ) ; easy to get a job with php ; php evolved from templating language, thus the templating for web is already there
 
Well, then IMHO, I think you'd find PHP an easier transition. You can write procedural code pretty easily, and it has very similar semantics to both perl and C.
 
@dyelawn No, I really want to know the advantages / disavantages of web languages.. I've read good and bad about PHP and other languages... so just looking for unbiased information.
 
However, with that said, it depends on what you want to do and where you want to go with it...
 
4:00 PM
in Lounge<C++>, 8 mins ago, by Jim Norton
I going into the PHP room ask why they use PHP when better alternatives exist... If I'm not back in 20 minutes, call for help.
@ircmaxell go
 
a search for unbiased information should not start with "Why do you folks use PHP when better alternatives exist?" ... that indicates that you have pre-existing bias
 
@webarto Like I said, I heard good and bad about PHP and other alternatives.
 
this is madness — tereško 8 mins ago
 
@Jim Norton because employability is a bad thing, and shouldn't influence someone's career choices? (ignoring the rest of the inflammatory stuff in the comment)
 
this is STACK OVERFLOW!
 
4:01 PM
I use PHP because better alternatives is subjective.
 
@orourkek But see I'm trying to not have a bias...
 
^^
 
and for my needs, PHP fits them pretty well. Sure, there are better (in an acedemic sense) languages out there
But as the saying goes theory and reality are only the same in theory
 
I've heard PHP is getting evolving and getting better...
 
In practice, PHP is plenty good enough, and has a number of other benefits...
 
4:03 PM
@ircmaxell I see what you did there! :]
 
@orourkek where?
 
@JimNorton bad parts about php : no naming convention for functions and rest of API (yet); a lot of bad tutorial ; not fully object oriented ; no IQ barrier
 
@tereško Hmmm
 
@ircmaxell I figured that "good enough" was a self reference
 
@tereško well, that's the interesting thing. Not fully OO can be seen as an advantage in some contexts
@orourkek it was :-P
 
4:05 PM
Well, maybe I'll learn both PHP and Python and have all the bases covered?
 
well .. the whole type-object-variable thing might be confusing for a beginner
 
@JimNorton I'd say that's the best bet; why learn one when you're willing to learn both. Use what's sensible at a given time.
 
I've been programming straight C for over 30 years... So I'm trying to branch out now.
@Bracketworks Yeah that's good advice
 
this means that you have no OOP background
 
I've been reading a lot into Scala, if you were ever interested in developing Java apps if only there weren't so much boilerplate it might interest you.
 
4:07 PM
@tereško Well, I do write some Java and C#..
I find C# very interesting..
 
Going along with the discussion, would you guys think learning language agnostic OOP practices is best done in a language like PHP where OO is half-baked, or Python where it's further implemented?
 
@JimNorton I'd pick one, give it a few weeks of trial, and then try the other. After 2 to 3 weeks with each, you should have a decent feel for both enough to make your personal decision
 
@JimNorton , you can make websites in C# and Java
 
C# is a lot like VB
from what I have seen
 
@Bracketworks that's a lie , Python too is not fully OO
 
4:09 PM
@tereško Yes that's true...
 
@tereško It's a question; errata?
 
But I suppose C# is not common yet for web development? Still PHP, Python, Ruby...??
 
@Bracketworks questions end with question marks
 
back to work I go.
 
@JimNorton There is a framework that uses C#.... ASP.Net
 
4:10 PM
@Bracketworks Have fun
 
you mean ASP.NET MVC and Webforms ?
 
@Drise Now man that sounds like fun... Does it run on non-Windows servers?
 
Sam
@JimNorton divorce C# while you still can; MS products are usually integrated together, which means you have to learn more MS frameworks (XAML, WCF, WPF, etc) to fully work with them.
 
@JimNorton Of course not!
 
@JimNorton , via Mono only
 
4:11 PM
@Drise Yeah, I'm not keen on Windows being used as a server.
 
i am not sure if you can run it on apache/lighttpd/nginx natively
 
And I would prefer to use something other than IIS
 
@Event_Horizon Not really. More like Java and C++. Granted, it's all using .Net, so a lot of similarity exists.
 
well .. the bottom line is this : php is the closest one to language which you already know
 
@tereško Yeah, that flattens the learning curve
 
4:13 PM
@Drise Maybe I just cant tell the difference because they Java and VB and C# seem to have tons of boilerplate
 
@Event_Horizon I don't see how VB has tons of boilerplate. Honestly, it's far simpler to get something running in VB than C++
 
What is meant by "boilerplate" in the context of programming languages?
And is it bad?
@Drise That is true... I've written A LOT of VB 6.
 
@Drise I might be thinking of something else
 
People still laugh at VB.. I don't see why
 
@JimNorton There's the problem. I use VB.Net
 
4:16 PM
@JimNorton , btw , there is another language which you left out : JavaScript
you can write serverside code for websites in JS too
 
@Event_Horizon For an equivalent Qt app that takes 150+ LOC, I did it in 20.
 
@tereško Hmm... more and more options.... excellent
 
( and if you start writing websites , you will have to learn JS anyway)
 
@tereško How so? Haven't seen this implimented
 
@tereško I must ask you, why do you put spaces before commas?
 
4:17 PM
@Event_Horizon google node.js
 
@EventHorizon , nodeJS ?
@Drise , habit ... i put a space after i finish a thread of thought
 
Well thanks all for sharing your thoughts with me. I've got some options to consider that I might not have considered before.
 
best of luck
 
@ircmaxell Thank you.. I appreciate it.
 
@tereško My second question: Why don't you use the key?
 
4:19 PM
@ircmaxell Is it a decent substitution for other server side scripting?
 
subjective question is subjective
 
Aww.. that was unfortunate. I was hoping to get a simulated <kbd>
 
@Drise , i grew up in IRC
 
Is it as powerful as other server side scripting?
 
4:20 PM
Still too subjective?
 
you can make website with it . what exactly is your question ?
 
@tereško Fair enough. Although, to be honest, so did I, and I still use it.
 
How about this: What advantages does JS server side bring, and disadvantages?
 
@Event_Horizon JavaScript's design (to be prototyped instead of using a normal inheritance scheme, for instance) makes it a poor choice for some types of server-side programming. It excels at other types.
 
@Event_Horizon Good question!
 
4:22 PM
depends on who you ask
 
shouldn't you ask that in javascript room ?
 
Maybe I'll just stick with CGI C :-)
Just kidding... it's uglyu
 
@JimNorton I've actually thought about doing CGI C++.
 
@LeviMorrison That would be interesting... In fact a framework based on C++ would be cool...
 
@tereško we were talking server side languages I figured it was appropriate to the conversation.
its lunch time for me anyways though
 
4:25 PM
 
Just so many options....
 
grub grub grub, eat eat eat, friday, weekend
 
@LeviMorrison Holy cow... sweet.
 
From its description it is quite robust.
 
THIS IS SPARTA
so apparently Stack Chat stops updating you with the latest line some wehere around 1120 posts deep
 
4:30 PM
the chat has been flaky whole week
and the autoupdate for tags in main page doesnt even work anymore
here is a scary term for you peeps: "include oriented programming"
 
:scared:
does file_get_contents('http://example.com/file.php'); goes "over the internet" or it is loopback (domain name = 127.0.0.1)... or depends on server conf...
so many tutorial oriented developers...
 
4:48 PM
@webarto , it looks in the local filesystem
 
i have a good question
 
with http:// specified? file_get_contents('file.php') will get source of file, and with http:// it will get output of php file... so I'm wondering if DomainName = 127.0.0.1
 
nvm
 
@webarto Without http:// before example.com, it will try the example.com folder in the current working folder.
 
@webarto , oh .. what i was file_get_contents('example.com/file.php');
 
4:53 PM
sorry, haven't added tags and it converted text to link... file_get_contents('http://example.com/file.php')
 
then it looks into location provided by hosting's name server ( which can be overridden by /etc/hosts )
 
@tereško thanks, do you perhaps know defaults, from what I'm seeing it "goes over the internet" on this one server that some idiot decided it was easier to do it like that...
sorry for choking and not testing it myself
 
0
A: Computing all possibilities of replacing one character by another

JedaiIn fact replace is not in the standard, this is actually something tha

^_^
 
5:11 PM
in Lounge<C++>, 25 secs ago, by DeadMG
awww mod delete
 
@ircmaxell: Perhaps you'll know the answer to this, why when I compile with --disable-all, is the binary so damn big. (~17mb before strip -s ~5.5mb after). Is it the result of 10 years worth of layering code? Is it appropriate for the 6.0 discussion to suggest identifying areas of bloat, unused code, legacy stuff that doesn't need to be there any more, that can be removed to streamline thing?
Just wondering how much it would do for scalability if that compiled size could be halved
 
5:36 PM
no idea, but what would a smaller binary get you?
 
@ircmaxell I see you started a 6.0 thread...
 
:-D
 
ducks while standing next to @ircmaxell
 
@ircmaxell I fear 6.0
 
why?
 
5:46 PM
I fear that it will be such a disaster as Python 3
 
it will
 
And I'm not sure that's good ;)
 
well, staying on 5 forever isn't a good idea either
 
depends
One thought I had is this:
Make primitives behave as objects (while still retaining the same zval structure)
I.e. everything will still work. Everything
Then add methods to those primitives and for String make these methods work on UTF-8
That would be my Unicode-migration plan ;)
 
ah, trying to mitigate the ripples from that change eh?
 
5:50 PM
asking if we should optimize is like asking why variable = variable + 1 is less effecient than variable++
 
@NikiC which was my point of autoboxing :-D
 
I see way to many applications that ship with bloated and unoptomized code, forwarding the unnecesary hyper evolution of hardware and not because we can make something better with new gear, but because we are too lazy to maximize what we have
 
variable += 1 vs variable++ is only a single character difference, so why do we have ++? holdover?
 
no answers, ok I'll just be in my corner
 
5:53 PM
it was a good point
im befuddled
 
@NikiC I like that concept. But the problem with UTF-8 isn't with strings, it's with the parser and engine
 
why do people think inline css on new features is a good idea? My day just got 10x more difficult :[
 
@orourkek Anyone who does inline css consistently should be beaten with a giant fork
 
They know I'm neck deep in responsive css now too, and chose to create new elements with no ids or classes...
 
@NikiC Why not just make everything work as UTF8 internally, and have specific functions for non-unicode operations
 

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