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3:01 PM
Now I'm done with this silly topic. back to business
 
user895378
It surprises me that SO people would sacrifice the quality of the site as a resource to protect the feelings of someone who is giving poor advice. If I post a terrible answer I fully expect to be downvoted into oblivion. If there's no penalty for bad answers, you'll have lots of bad answers. It's that simple.
 
Please give me your opinion on this blog post on GLOBALS ARE EVIL:
http://blog.lukemorton.co.uk/post/1442685644/global-variables-bad
Before I decide to cite it.
 
What's that? A star day?
 
@rdlowrey post that as an answer...
 
@rdlowrey Yes, this guy got max-rep for the day by using global
 
3:03 PM
This is blasphemy, this is madness... this is... STACKOVERFLOW
 
@rdlowrey Never thought I'd see global get rewarded so generously
 
@rdlowrey to add onto that, the downvoters pay a price. it comes at a cost to protect future learners..
 
The reaction to this dv-pls is just annoying. The PHP chat is probably the most active and organised group of PHP tag maintainers. We closed and deleted craploads of duplicates by now. I consider this a service to this site.
12
 
@Gordon absolutely
 
user895378
@Gordon +1
 
3:05 PM
@Gordon 100% agree.
 
1 message moved to bin
 
@Gordon The closing and deleting isn't particularly controversial.
 
@ircmaxell was continuing yesterdays topic about trololo guy, but link probably NSFW
 
@Gordon You have to admit that 'organized voting' is a scary thing to some people
 
@MikeB apparently.
anyway. buffet is open. i have to leave. laters or tomorrows
 
3:09 PM
@MikeB yes, that's where the real problem is
 
@CarrieKendall your venus star transits pretty quickly.
 
@Paul LOL! i had to read that about 3 times before i understood
 
@markustharkun How so?
 
@MikeB the real problem of this whole discusson IMO is not the actual practice but the perception of it by others
 
@RepWhoringPeeHaa , why not just
because that's what the dv-pls is used for
 
3:13 PM
@markustharkun Gotcha, I'm barely in here so I never get to see the good deeds you all do :)
 
it has been a huge day for the stars, we are getting close to 2000.
 
@tereško sounds good to me
 
@MikeB then visit more often :)
 
I think most people would agree that closing and deleting questions is a good thing. Those both need a bunch of votes, so coordination is helpful. On the other hand, five downvotes isn't much more useful than one, and it's perceived as more personal, so it's more difficult to justify "organized voting" in that case. Using a chat cue that seems to read "downvote please" is much more likely to cause drama than .
 
the most annoying part of it is "someone downvoted my oh-so-smart answer .. i will just run to Meta to cry for it"
4
mods might have done a quite bad thing for SO's future
 
3:15 PM
posted on June 05, 2012 by Internet Super Hero

Clustering databases is a mainstream technology. MySQL PHP users can take many approaches to load balancing, pooling and redirection. PECL/mysqlnd_ms is one solution. How does it handle transactions? Transactions are a challenge for every MySQL load balancer. MySQL? Load? Clustering! Balancing! PECL/mysqlnd_ms 1.4 View more presentations from Ulf Wendel Load Balancer and tra

 
@JeremyBanks When I see an answer with -5 I will know for sure it is bad
 
db.username = root
db.password =
db.host = localhost

Is empty value acceptable in ini file
 
@RepWhoringPeeHaa for sure?..
 
@tereško I completely agree, this just seemed like whining about rep on Meta, if your answers get downvoted maybe you should edit or delete and reanswer with better answers eh?
 
user895378
My final thought on the matter ...
 
user895378
3:18 PM
@RobertHarvey I don't think vindictive voting is a good thing, but low-quality answers should be downvoted and downvoted often. Otherwise stack overflow turns into w3schools where bad information is passed off as authoritative.rdlowrey 40 secs ago
 
@tereško Everyone is ignoring that fact. Since the guy's complaint received a sympathetic ear the whole rule of 'don't complain about downvotes' was ignored AND community-mods 'had words' with people
Same thing happened to Col. Shrapnel.. some guy complained about Shrapnel downvoting his question.. and Shrapnel ends up getting banned. So what should have been a closed/deleted question for whining.. ended up banning a user
Ends justify the means at SO
 
@MikeB thats what i mean with "harm to SO's future"
 
on the plus side PHP chat is quite active today
 
If you guys feel so strongly about this, why didn't you just fix the answer? Surely someone had editing privileges.
 
I don't know about you guys, but even sans-contribution, I'm not getting very much work done.
 
3:24 PM
I don't care for fixing other people's rep-attaining answers
if it's CW, fine.
 
@RobertHarvey , because "to fix" the answer, would mean "to completely rewrite"
 
^^ that
 
but for normal answers, it's on them. I'd rather post my own answer than fix theirs
(except for minor formatting fixes)
 
some answers can be fixed, some can't. when you would need to rewrite it completely you shouldn't do that, but downvote
 
(or missing semicolon)
 
3:25 PM
@tereško Or at least require a lengthy addendum.
 
@RobertHarvey , i thought "fixing" answer in a way taht completely changes the meaning was against the rules
 
indeed it is
 
@tereško you're gonna get another mod to curse at you :P
 
haha
It was a bad answer to a worse question. I don't think anyone wanted to spend the time improving an unsalvageable situation.
 
it has been that sort of day
 
user895378
3:28 PM
Hehe, I'm tempted to start answering questions by saying, "Just use globals for everything in PHP. meta.stackoverflow says it's a good solution, so it must be true."
 
I think deleting both posts (SO and Meta) is the best thing to do
 
I think fits the original question/answer combo
 
imho the question has no lasting value anyway.. and the meta discussion is a cluster
 
@RobertHarvey In response to your comment: You've misplaced the birthplace of the peril. The OP complained about downvotes and was inturn rewarded with 'charity' votes. This is a problem that SHOULD be addressed. Whether or not to comment when leaving a downvote has already been addressed.
 
3:30 PM
?
Tying comments to downvotes has nothing at all to do with this.
The charity upvotes don't have anything to do with it either, except to further illustrate the vote-distortion effect.
 
How does it have nothing to do with this?
 
This whole dumb discussion and all the panic around it
 
You can do what you like. But there are many mods in the TL that find this who affair unsavory and distasteful, and think you guys could have done better.
 
If I am reading the meta post properly, that topic seems to be the gravitational pull of ALL of the discussion, regardless of where it has stemmed. Also mentioned here
 
@RobertHarvey The problem that I have with this, is lumping this room as the bad guy here
Individuals could have done better. But this room did exactly what it should have, spread the word about the question. Which is very useful to the community (ask a bunch of other mods, a lot of them like how this room helps the section)
 
3:35 PM
@RobertHarvey You totally missed the point. And fail to see what is and when I try to explain you say I try to attempt to reframe it as meaning something else. So this discussion is useless
I do agree with the fact that a comment would be nice though
 
@rdlowrey I am agree with you... look toys.lerdorf.com/archives/… globals everywhere! If Rasmus uses them, who are we to say that is shouldn't be used?
 
As said and deleted before by mods, moot point is moot.
 
Sure, individuals could have commented, and tried to improve the answer, or answered on their own. But that's not the rooms fault that it didn't happen...
 
I think the mods are missing the point that the answer was terrible, and are trying to defend it on grounds that are not applicable: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/134581/…
 
The blame lies with the downvoters.. which are anonymous.. so the pitchforks turned to this chat channel to blame
 
user895378
3:38 PM
This stupid topic has gobbled up my morning.
 
user895378
Some moron posts "Use globals they're super awesome!" and everything goes to hell because it gets downvoted.
 
someone is wrong on the internet
 
yeah, Wordpress is full of them, so they must be awesome.
 
@webarto lol point taken
 
3:42 PM
@rdlowrey I'm starting to use phing now. I think its a better way to start rather than Jenkins (which I had working). Using phing I can build it up from the basics and control it better.
 
eh, i have better things to attend to. PHP Chat should receive the message that the mods truly have distaste for our downvotes in particular. we should never share similar opinions on posts/answers and all will be well!
and with that I retire!
 
user895378
@Paul That's how I feel ... Jenkins just seems a bit overboard for my purposes. phing works just fine to automate everything I need ... though I do have a little bit of "pretty-graph-envy"
 
I posted this since no one else has, DOWNVOTE ME TO OBLIVION META I DONT MIND
-4
Q: Should charity votes be given to anyone?

Event_HorizonThere's no requirement to provide comments with downvotes It seems the question: I thought I posted a good answer got many charity votes for their question even though the answer in question was downvoted for a reason (being poor/downright wrong coding practice, answer and question included). P...

if anyone wants to edit my question to include things or correct things please do
 
user895378
@Event_Horizon lol, you just had bad timing
 
user895378
Should've waited a couple of hours. It's just funny because the people complaining about downvotes are doing the exact same thing to you ... only your question wasn't blatantly wrong :)
 
@rdlowrey That was the point I was trying to make...lol
 
@Event_Horizon I gave you a charity vote.
 
@EventHorizon I don't have enough rep to see the votes for your question. What's it at? I see 0
 
3:52 PM
I was just trying to make the point that people circle downvote,circle close questions they don't agree with even if they ARE legitimate
 
Sam
Evening guys
 
evening
 
This has been a rousing morning :)
 
yeah
 
user895378
4:01 PM
Goodness, is it a coincidence that the questions on the main site are abnormally awful on a day when answers espousing global get +200 rep?
 
@hakre Are you the maintainer/contributor of the PTI tools? I love em.. use them every day
 
Just remember for the next week we have to apparently explain every downvote or they might get upvoted into oblivion
 
@MikeB I'm not the maintainer, thats Mr. Kiera. I did some bugreports some time ago which I hope had a positive influence on it ;) Even not a big one, but you know the deal. I have it installed with Eclipse PDT btw. and use it everytime I don't use Phpstorm.
@rdlowrey wow give that guy the chance to get his question moved to the other side before downvoting. argh, it's really hot today ^^
 
@hakre hah, same here
 
user895378
4:04 PM
@hakre I didn't downvote!
 
user895378
just cv-pls
 
@rdlowrey sorry, was not referring you personally, but the question you linked.
 
user895378
oh lol yeah that thing was closed with the quickness!
 
And too hot ain't too tanned, you know?
Eh btw. I've a collection of 9 pictures or so in two blog-posts.
 
user895378
4:09 PM
@hakre They're brilliant!
 
Yay got another revenge downvote. I feel special now
 
db.password = help :) how to specify empty value in .ini file, if possibru
 
posted on June 05, 2012 by Derick Rethans

Fulltext Search with MongoDB and Solr Berlin, Germany Tuesday, June 5th 2012, 18:03 CEST In this article I am explaining how you can tie MongoDB and Solr together. With the help of a little helper script in PHP that uses MongoDB's replication features we automatically generate updates in Solr. We will first look at the MongoDB side and th

 
@RepWhoringPeeHaa me too :)
 
user895378
@RepWhoringPeeHaa
 
4:13 PM
-2 6 mins ago downvote Friendly URL (SEO)
 
We all got it? God damnit. I'm not special anymore :(
 
should we open collective discussion on meta?
 
user895378
lol me too -1 on my top answer
 
I demand a special downvote only for me!
 
@webarto db.password = ""
 
user895378
4:15 PM
The real reason people complain about anonymous downvotes is because they want to revenge downvote and they can't if they don't know who did it.
 
user50049
If any of you see more than five odd down votes in a short amount of time, I'd very much appreciate a ping.
 
@TimPost Let them downvote if it helps them blow of some steam. Let's call it take one for the team ;)
 
user895378
The gold standard of ass-hattery: You downvoted my terrible answer, so I'm going to downvote your awesome answer.
 
we demand justice
 
@TimPost And I'd appreciate a cup of tea, we can but want.
 
4:17 PM
@rdlowrey Suits you right for changing your avatar
 
@donut when I enter "" or '' or nothing... pokit.org/get/img/f87391777f2e61fc5562fc515b586604.png , when I remove entire line pokit.org/get/img/ec7313834c285cc89c3861451d662ea3.png , I will sort it out I guess... thanks for input. (easy solution is to set password for root)
 
user895378
@RepWhoringPeeHaa I tried to upvote your recently downvoted answer for great justice, only to discover I had already done so :) @webarto I just got you back to +10 because your answer was good (and didn't suggest using global)
 
user50049
@RepWhoringPeeHaa Well, if it's like gnats and you don't mind .. it's not a big deal. But if someone is going through a bunch of your posts and dinging you, we need to know about it.
 
@webarto what about ''?
 
user895378
OMG.
 
user895378
4:23 PM
@rdlowrey I think you did not read down to the bottom. I clearly discourage the user of using global variables and provide him a better suited solution. Your downvote is not justified. — marco-fiset 1 min ago
 
user895378
Guy edits his answer 5 times and then says, no, my answer is good!
 
user895378
STOP THE INSANITY.
 
@rdlowrey hehe thank you very much, although http://pokit.org/get/img/51f733776f717f9c807f31c5a9f733ec.png Rasmus Lerdorf is using globals too, so we might be wrong, and should apologise.
@Donut first thing I've tried, when you said "", I thought, stupid me and single quotes, but no luck :) It's Zend FW... http://php.net/manual/en/function.parse-ini-file.php
 
user895378
@webarto Yeah, then again, Rasmus wrote PHP, so I'm not sure we can infer that he's the paragon of best-practices.
 
Re-edit of question
http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/134613/should-simpathy-votes-be-used-to-counter-unexplained-downvotes
 
4:26 PM
@rdlowrey hehe tnx anyway
 
alright, let's move on
 
@TimPost I don't see a problem for me personally. It happens (even more so when posting a comment attached to a downvote) and I don't feel like shouting for mods when it happens. The way I see it is when it happens to someone who minds he/she will contact a mod or post on meta.
@ircmaxell yes let's do so
 
@rdlowrey good thing that Zeev and Andrei got involved :P
 
lol
 
@salathe @ircmaxell I suggested yesterday to this comment. what you say?
 
4:36 PM
@RepWhoringPeeHaa I say I'm going home.
 
which comment?
 
sorry double ping. I'm an idiot
@salathe I say. later :-)
 
eih
 
IMHO that's exactly where some of the shit is coming from
 
user50049
@ircmaxell I just discovered your password lib today, nice work :) I'm using it.
 
4:41 PM
@TimPost as long as you don't copy and re-license it ;)
 
user50049
@RepWhoringPeeHaa Why would I do that?
 
@RepWhoringPeeHaa Oh boy.
 
Thanks!
@TimPost Someone did that I found out about yesterday :-D
 
@ircmaxell Link?
 
no
it's being rectified, and that's enough for me
 
user50049
4:42 PM
@ircmaxell That's .. unfortunate.
 
@ircmaxell at least they mailed you. So I would think it was a genuine mistake
 
user50049
The MIT license is compatible with every OSI approved and proprietary license known to human kind. It is the perfect license for libraries.
 
it was a genuine mistake, that once pointed out was admitted to and work was started to rectify it immediately. So I'm satisfied with that
 
Well, I can not belive how someone could do this. That's obvious that sooner or later that truth will go out.
 
@TimPost I used to dual license BSD and LGPL for that reason. Then I changed to pure MIT
 
4:44 PM
Anyway I'm going home. Cya tonight all
 
If that happens, and that person refuse deleting it, what owner can do?
@RepWhoringPeeHaa See ya
 
take it easy
 
user50049
@ircmaxell The only thing I added was a function to generate a temp file name (and extension) , which was trivial to do with the facilities provided.
 
@TimPost :-D
@Donut if they really refused? I'd file a complaint with the FSF, and possibly start legal action
this doesn't warrant that, but in general
 
FSF?
 
user50049
4:46 PM
Free Software Foundation
 
Oh, okay.
 
@ircmaxell BSD and LGPL aren't compatible?
 
user50049
@NikiC They are. But the LGPL takes precedence when mixing them
 
user50049
(the most restrictive license always prevails, in any scenario)
 
they are compatible with each other. But BSD isn't compatible with some other OS licenses that LGPL is...
 
user50049
4:49 PM
BSD is ambiguous, the 2 - 3 clause BSD is, BSD with advertising clause is not
 
@ircmaxell for example?
@ircmaxell The cryptlib build.xml has whitespace issues
 
yeah, it does.
I realized that when I linked to it
 
5:04 PM
Does anyone else thing that @RobertHarvey is acting extremely unprofessionally in the comments here: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/134581/…
I get the feeling that he forgot to read the answer...
 
@NikiC A lot of people here were fixated by it this morning
(a few hours ago)
 
Sad
I have no problem with the ordinary users completely misunderstanding the issue, but I wouldn't expect it from a moderator
But heh, nobody's perfect :)
 
@NikiC more than just him. I am upset with all the mods behavior in that thread...
 
@NikiC Yes, I was thinking that before you mentioned it. He features prominently, but not professionally. I almost flagged one of his comments earlier in response to ircmaxell's answer, but it got removed.
 
@ircmaxell Yes, definitely
 
user895378
5:12 PM
Must ... not .... get ... sucked ... back .... in ... argggggggg!!!!!!
 
I cast the last delv on stackoverflow.com/questions/10880838/…. I fear that we'll get a major shitstorm about that
 
user895378
In an unrelated note, I second this opinion:
 
user895378
32 mins ago, by Tim Post
@ircmaxell I just discovered your password lib today, nice work :) I'm using it.
 
@rdlowrey :D
 
user895378
I've been using it for a while ... it's nice to trust someone else who knows what they're doing in areas that you don't :)
 
5:14 PM
@NikiC Indeed meta.stackoverflow.com/a/134630/172224. No collaboration is allowed
Seems like Robert doesn't want anyone linking to questions in chat
 
No, @RobertHarvey is wrong.
 
(Please don't vote that answer up or down - I don't want to get banned)
 
This issue was already discussed ad nauseum and he seems to be the first one of that opinion.
 
user895378
It seems to me, if this room didn't police the tag, Stack Overflow would be much worse than w3schools as a PHP resource. Some of the garbage that shows up there would just hang out and be considered authoritative.
 
Please provide an answer, I would like to hear any answers from you guys on meta.
 
5:16 PM
@EventHorizon you accepted his answer?
 
@mikeb its the only one, it has some points to it, I would be more than happy to pass it to someone with a better answer
 
user895378
@Event_Horizon You don't have to accept an answer just because it's the only one ... especially on meta
 
Terribly depressing to see such a bunch of intelligent people so preoccupied with utter minutia. It's my first day really using chat... is it always full of this bollotix? Not sure I care for it all that much.
 
@Event_Horizon No, the only best thing to do now is to just stop that discussion ;)
Nobody will care about it tomorrow anyways, so the sooner it is dropped the better :)
 
5:20 PM
@rdlowrey Yeah I guess your right
 
@eggyal no, this is the first time in many months it has disolved into this
 
@eggyal There's transscripts of everything so you can see for yourself
 
@MikeB I've been sitting here most of the day watching in disbelief.
 
goodnight all
 
user895378
@eggyal Yeah, it's generally much more useful.
 
user895378
5:21 PM
@Paul later
 
@eggyal Change the subject :)
 
I've made a POC for generators in PHP: github.com/nikic/php-src/tree/addGeneratorsSupport
Didn't yet have time to post it on internals over all that b*llsh*t today
 
5:37 PM
@NikiC , you might reconsider the use of acronym "POC"
there are too many way to translate it
take for example all the C words you can put in "proof of .." or "piece of .. "
 
@tereško piece of cake? xD
 
@tereško POS...
 
proof of concept?
 
I prefer cake. :(
 
@ircmaxell Regarding the standards group.. I've loosly been following but love the direction. Any guess as to when sniffs can start being written/released?
 
5:44 PM
++ @nikic
@MikeB no idea
 
5:56 PM
@webarto yes ^^
 

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