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1:02 AM
@Mgetz It's been decades since anybody found a vulnerability in MULTICS (or course, also decades since anybody used it much...) Seriously, its security model really was pretty good though.
 
1:25 AM
@LandonZeKepitelOfGreytBritn you need to look at the number of actual PWNs, etc
@LandonZeKepitelOfGreytBritn When you look at exploits in the wild that are taking down people's systems, etc its pretty hard to find anything on Linux
@LandonZeKepitelOfGreytBritn In the early 2000s we used to be able to do GUI tricks to get root access. For example, pressing help on the Windows 2000 Login would bring up a help explorer that had root access, and could be used to take over the system...
 
1:49 AM
@Mikhail wut... Linux is technically speaking the MOST pwn'd OS. (but only because of routers and lack of patching)
 
@Mgetz you are technically correct
but if we start looking at user land and vendor config we'll hide the computer science :-)
like every Android with a Chinese government backdoor runs Linux
 
In all fairness... if I wanted to pick on the linux kernel... I'd just start with the complete disaster that is the driver model. All of which exists because politics and GPL2
 
VFIO is the way :-)
NVIDIA drivers aren't really drivers, they're compilers
 
the linux or windows ones?
because between AMD and NVidia they changed the entire driver model to isolate that crap in userland
 
The package nvidia releases includes compilers
 
1:53 AM
meanwhile linux still thinks kernel GPU drivers make sense
 
I just like when AMD tried to upstream stuff
and then Linux told them to fuck off
 
they've done the same to literally every hardware vendor at some point
it's why android is such a disaster zone
 
Not really sure whats going on in Linux driver land, I mean I worked on Linux drivers before for GPU like devices and it was by far the easiest thing. Just memcopy.
with VFIO you have something in userspace anyways
 
While others constantly changes passwords, I sometimes change the logins .. and development machines are mostly off the internet, they are not the ones that I use for every day browsing/carrying out other chores. I am a firm believer that you can't steal something if you don't know where it is ..
 
@Mikhail the linux driver model does have some organization, but it's largely whatever the vendors want to get away with as best I can tell. They don't have very strict rules about what can be done where and at what time
Windows and MacOS however get really pissy if you do things in an interrupt handler
 
1:57 AM
I don't blame them
I just imagine some engineers at AMD trying to do the right thing and get their stuff upstreamed, and then being shit on
 
that is also a linux thing
the kernel dev community can be super toxic
 
2:45 AM
I just kinda feel that other projects are able to more effectively manage industrial cooperations
 
 
4 hours later…
7:07 AM
@Mgetz s/can be/is/ The toxicity may not always be visible, but it's always there...
 
 
5 hours later…
12:11 PM
What if ... some people camp in the protesting areas just because that they can't camp there any other times?
 
 
2 hours later…
1:45 PM
“If you're rich from a higher American salary you don't need European welfare”
Well said. I think this should settle any debate about US vs EU payranges for SWE
 
2:09 PM
@LandonZeKepitelOfGreytBritn 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
the cost of living in the US in many places is absolutely insane
the actual accrued wealth for a US engineer isn't as good as it sounds at face value
 
2:23 PM
@Mgetz 20k/month after taxes seems to be quite common. No way you d make that in Europe
 
@LandonZeKepitelOfGreytBritn ROFL you think people get 20k a month after taxes
try 10 at max
 
@Mgetz 180k base comp + 70k seems to be quite common based on what I found
And @Mikhail wholeheartedly confirmed that 200k is very easily achievable even if you re not a senior
@Mgetz at what seniority/level?
Fresh grad? :p
 
@LandonZeKepitelOfGreytBritn where?
Because that's an outrageous salary outside of SF
 
Cali is not the rest of the US
and Cali Cost of living eats all that up really quickly
 
2:29 PM
Or maybe it was Atlanta Georgia
 
Georgia would be in the 140-160 max range last I checked
cost of living is cheap there
 
(Just kidding it was Cali :p)
@Mgetz so what is that after taxes then? Assuming you re eg at 150
 
but 20k take home doesn't mean much when COL is over 15k
 
@Mgetz a friend of mine recently moved to Cali and his rent is 4k/month for a 1 bedroom apartment
 
I can say for me in colorado? I'm looking at around 10k after taxes and retirement
 
2:32 PM
@Mgetz nice mountanins for skiing huh…
 
ROFL, you assume you can get to them and it's cheap enough to go
if you want cheap living and skiing you live in utah
 
@Mgetz i thought you were a rich American software engineer. I am quite disappointed
 
you assume that's a thing
cost of living has gotten insane
 
No cap, is colorado MCOL or LCOL?
 
no idea what those mean
 
2:34 PM
Medium cost of living, low cost of living
Cali being HCOL
 
medium high
 
Fair enough
Seems like moving to the US would be an unwise decision in that case lol
I m at 10k after taxes and rentrprice is 1k at most for 850 sqft
Only people really getting F-ed in the A are the people living in Paris
Rentprices are extremely high and pay is down in the gutter
850sqft is around 3500usd per month while most emgineers make around 50k/year pre taxes
 
@LandonZeKepitelOfGreytBritn that is effectively Cali right now, while people talk about 200k salaries... that's the exception not the rule
most people aren't making that
highest take home is probably texas, but that's a cheat because texas doesn't have income tax. But they have brutal sales tax
 
 
3 hours later…
6:07 PM
@Mgetz What i've seen is that other positions tech make about as much as engineering, for example product/project managers, customer support etc but realistically you're not doing the 70+ hour a week hustle that engineers do. I've seen a few cases where those guys get retention bonuses that put them way above my salary, despite having little of anything to do (they even wanted to leave because they were bored).
@LandonZeKepitelOfGreytBritn basically hired a consultant that said that lvl4 ish engineers for remote should be around 170k (in 2020) to match 70% percentile. Google pays around this levels.fyi/companies/google/salaries/software-engineer/levels/… and they target above 70% perecentile
Numbers in this chat are low especially for seniority level, but +/- 20k isn't really worth talking about. I suspect the stock compensation is also not there.
also something to be said about being fully remote
 
 
2 hours later…
7:51 PM
@Mikhail google is not a reference, FAANGs are outliers
you're distorting things lol
 
I said they were higher
google is around 270k btw
 
either way it seems like 200k/annum is not the norm accross the US
 
for 10 years and C++ it is
I mean I literally can't hire people under that, and we're fully remote, have stock etc
 
@Mikhail mgetz doesnt seem to get that and he fits your description
@Mikhail only in the US?
 
@LandonZeKepitelOfGreytBritn we have people in the civilized parts of Europe or whatever the UK is
 
but I don't know how their rates are calculated
 
what's the company's name?
if you're working with people in the EU usually the easiest is to work through a (sub)contracting mechanism
 
but I do know how we did our rates and it was basically level + target percentile (only lookinga t total comp), and then some distortion from bonuses/etc
 
@Mikhail what are the current payscales like for junior-medior-senior?
 
@LandonZeKepitelOfGreytBritn levels fyi has them
 
7:58 PM
@Mikhail does the name start with a 'g' and end with a 'q'?
 
btw our numbers are lower than FANGs, etc
 
doesn't answer my question
interesting, seems like they need hw engineers as well
Meh, I probably only have a junior level when it comes to C++
 
posted on May 02, 2024 by Blog Staff

std::format allows us to format values quickly and safely. Spencer Collyer demonstrates how to provide formatting for a simple user-defined class. User-Defined Formatting in std::format by Spencer Collyer From the article: Since my previous article was first published, based on the draft C++20 standard, the paper [P2216] was published which changes the interface of the&n

 
this is the chart for chicago
not the bay, you can pay $800 a month rent in Chicago and not smell shit on the ground.
lets look at 75% percentile number
this is approximately what I told you
 
8:05 PM
Fair enough. Either way it is too early for me to try to apply. If you'd be open for people who are quite proeficient at C, asm and kernel space dev I'd give it a try. But I am not good enough at C++ unless you're willing to hire junior profiles
 
You can try to shoot your shot but I personally don't have HC or know of people with remaining HC
there are hundreds of places hiring and almost everybody you'd want to work for uses the same formula: target the 75% percentile for base
 
@Mikhail OK, duly noted. Might give it a try later on this year. Right now is not the right time
BTW what companies in EUrope have you tried applying at yourself? Or what countries have you tried?
 
Europe was a bit weird
 
too civilized?
 
So there are a bunch of optics companies like ASML and Zeiss that had a strong match with my PhD work but they were going to pay like 90k and I'd need to move overseas etc
Also some contract stuff but you'd really need to be a citizen of those countries for it
 
8:11 PM
@Mikhail contract stuff?
 
yeah
Both ASML and Zeiss have US offices but they pay less than US companies, and do more boring work, seemed less friendly.
Oh also Axa Equitable said they'd probably make an offer and then said I look too young.
 
Which country was this contract stuff for? Usually if you provide services to the EU and you're based in the US the only thing that changes is that you don't add VAT to your invoice. That's literally the only thing
 
@LandonZeKepitelOfGreytBritn I think there was some intersections with defense
 
Country or firm's name?
I have been in defence for nearly a decade, including the US' defence although I am not American
 
I forgot but lets pretend its NDA
 
 
2 hours later…
9:51 PM
WHat is the easiest way to maintain ssh keys on hundred devices in the field?
To me this sounds like an absolute nightmare if you have a policy which requires you to change your keys every now and then
 

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