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10:22 AM
I gave you the answer on last question: defining variable is not the same as using it. Two different actions – in first you may want to USE a namespace member – but that should not influence the using part. PS. Size of the array is not needed, though I am giving it. — AllCoder 1 min ago
 
fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'initializer_list': No such file or directory ... so far goes the usefulness of VS2012.
 
User with a single question posts this comment...
@rubenvb What? You thought it had more features?
Be happy with ranged-for and declarations of enums.
 
@sbi are there not web tools to similar effect
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh, I didn't think that. I thought, "hey let's see what the first unsupported feature I used, is"
 
affect?
 
10:26 AM
To remove all occurences of an initializer_list in my code or not... that is the question...
 
I just say "fuck it".
 
What are the chances of that actually being supported with VS2012SP1?
If those are non-zero, I'll wait.
 
@rubenvb One of the few advantages of Java is that you can use eclipse, which has some very nice intellisense features
 
Herb said they want to ship upgrades out of the regular schedule. Let's see how that pans out.
 
Heck, it'll even warn you about code that can never logically be executed because of conditions which can never be met
 
10:27 AM
@Neil I use Qt Creator. I like it enough. Eclipse can do C++ too.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes why say it? (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
Eclipse for c++ doesn't have all the intellisense of eclipse for java
 
@Neil like VS is aimed very much towards C#, eclipse is aimed very much towards Java
 
FFU~~ MSVC2012 can't compile this code - liveworkspace.org/code/c3130ed483be2e5c554d615cd39093cc
 
@thecoshman Too true
 
10:29 AM
Somebody needs to fucking fix C++ Intellisense.
 
^ because 'print<T>' : base class undefined, T=unknown
 
All you have to do to break c++ intellisense is throw in a random bracket
 
@StackedCrooked Good luck.
 
And I mean, I can see why that might cause confusion, but you can figure out from context if it is an extra bracket
Or maybe you can't.. not even sure about that.. depends on how much c++ will let you get away with
 
I don't see what's so great about Intellisense.
 
10:31 AM
The more c++ lets you do, the less you can infer about source written in c++
If you could program in english, well intellisense for that language would be next to nothing I'd imagine.
 
@rubenvb Intellisense-compatibility is a criteria a weight of 4/10 in my design decision matrix.
 
@Abyx what's print for?
 
@StackedCrooked wow, that's quite high.
 
dammit - they didn't fixed it in VC11 - stackoverflow.com/questions/6557565/…
 
you want foo to break in the general case?
 
10:32 AM
@ecatmur to print T
 
@rubenvb I don't think so.. intellisense was like a bonus feature when it came out.. now it's hard to imagine what you'd do without ctrl + space
 
@ecatmur yep. but for debugging I want to print T
 
how annoying that would be..
 
extern char x[]; // is this a valid declaration?
@Neil Normal things.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes don't think so.
 
10:36 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes.
 
GCC accepts it, but decltype(x) is char[]. Hmmm.
WTF.
 
Seems correct to me.
 
Isn't char[] an incomplete type?
 
extern alias<char[]> x; is equivalent.
 
Wait, that doesn't change anything.
 
10:37 AM
Ah yes, it is allowed.
As long as you complete it before using it.
 
Well, that particular declaration cannot be completed.
 
> The
declared type of an array object might be an array of unknown size and therefore be incomplete at one point
in a translation unit and complete later on; the array types at those two points (“array of unknown bound
of T” and “array of N T”) are different types.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not if it's extern. It just has to be defined properly elsewhere I thought
 
How do you define the variable?
 
3.9:6.
extern int arr[]; // the type of arr is incomplete is actually in the example.
 
10:38 AM
Shows how much I know then
 
IIRC formally you can't. Implementations glady work with making x a complete array somewhere in the program.
 
That does mean that from other translation units than the one where it is completed you can only use it to decay to a pointer.
 
@LucDanton The example at §3.9/6 shows it defined with a size later on.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes But how does that work? The declarations are different.
 
> The type of a pointer to array of unknown size, or of a type defined by a typedef declaration to be an array of unknown size, cannot be completed.
Maybe you're confusing with this?
 
10:40 AM
4.2 “array of unknown bound of T” can be converted to “pointer to T”
 
@LucDanton It's explicitly called out: "the array types at those two points (“array of unknown bound of T” and “array of N T”) are different types."
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Doesn't it strike you as odd to declare the same entity differently?
 
@LucDanton Yes, which is why I brought up the question anyway.
 
woohoo! I did it! it compiles in VC++
template<typename C, typename A> auto aux(void(C::*)(A)) -> A;

template<typename T> struct bar
{
    typedef decltype(aux(&T::operator())) type;
};

int main()
{
    struct B { void operator()(int) {} };
    return bar<B>::type();
}
 
10:43 AM
Anyone knows a bug in latest mingw, that may make it change order of function calls I make?
 
@yasar11732 It's called an "optimiser", not a bug.
@Abyx nice one!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I suppose the array decay is the one way to make use of such arrays. One could declare a pointer (or range) instead of declaring the array as incomplete though, even if the semantics are not the same.
 
@ecatmur This code first scans the numbers, than ask me to enter them. I call that a bug.
 
@LucDanton But decltype(x) changes with context. I really don't like it.
@yasar11732 Sounds like a terminal issue.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Declaring the array as incomplete, right?
 
10:48 AM
It's like mutable stuffs at compile-time.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes so does decltype(foo(x)) if you introduce another declaration of foo.
 
@ecatmur If you introduce another declaration of foo, it declares another entity.
 
@ecatmur That's not the same.
That's a use of decltype to examine an expression. The other inspects an entity.
 
Ooh, that's nice. Class template specialisations can have different sizes for an array of unknown bound.
@yasar11732 No it doesn't. The output isn't being flushed to the console.
 
@ecatmur Normally it should be. The standard streams are synched.
 
10:53 AM
Yeah. @yasar11732 it's a terminal I/O issue. See if anyone else has reported it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hmm, I just realized it only bugged in eclipse console. In normal windows command line it works.
 
There you go, terminal issue.
 
@yasar11732 Good troubleshooting, I was about to ask which terminal you were using.
 
sbi
 
A Rubik sandwich?
2
 
sbi
10:54 AM
For all you bacon lovers.
 
hm... I wonder why do we still use that typename metastruct<T>::type stuff if we can use delctype(metafn((T*)0))
 
Bah, who uses either of those.
 
@ecatmur heaven
 
Stop, you guys are making me hungry
 
sbi
10:55 AM
Uh oh. What have I done.
 
Ooh, lunchtime.
 
@Neil what does ctrl-space do?
 
Invokes the IntelliSense completion.
 
@rubenvb Autocomplete
 
@Neil oh, in QtCreator that's just pressing enter.
 
10:57 AM
Or if nothing is there, suggestions for methods you can call in your class
 
@rubenvb Really? How do you add a newline then?
 
but I assume it's not as general/advanced.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ctrl + enter
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes autocomplete kicks in after three characters.
 
@rubenvb Ah, you mean to pick an item. Yeah, VS behaves the same. Ctrl+space forces it to pop-up (well, "forces" as in "convinces it if it's not already dead, or something else").
 
10:58 AM
no use in having every single thing possible in autocomplete IMO.
@R.MartinhoFernandes hey, waddayaknow: Qt Creator has ctrl-space too.
I was converting my code to work with VS2012. Then I got to this file: github.com/rubenvb/Ambrosia/blob/master/libAmbrosia/Source/…
 
So, "fuck it"?
 
Then I gave up, reverted all the {...} to ´std::make_pair(...)` and moved on with my merry C++11 life.
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes, fuck VS2012.
 
awesome git integration: "undo unstaged changes for this file".
 
I never found such "programming challenges" to be very interesting.
 
11:02 AM
Well, there's one that requires you to implement addition, multiplication only in terms of bitwise operations
 
Fun, maybe, but I prefer writing applications.
Not hypothetical code you will never use.
 
Ugh, applications.
With their icky UI craps.
 
Libraries FTW.
 
Libraries are like. Applications without UI. :P
 
11:05 AM
Exactly. That's why they're so much better.
(Also, no. Applications lean towards specificity, libraries lean towards genericity)
 
@RadekSlupik No, libraries are like applications without a main
 
Hmmm add implemented in only bitwise operations, using the "half adder" circuit
 
@Neil I'd still disagree. Applications are the use of libraries. They have product-specific logic, which libraries don't have.
Application without a main still has some logic, yet it's not being invoken.
@TonyTheLion Isn't it how the early CPU's did that?
 
11:21 AM
@BartekBanachewicz yes, I think so
 
What does XYness mean, according to this guide (#2.1) ?
 
@yasar11732 "If we take object Y it doesn't work". Say that you wanted to load a file (X) instead.
 
This should really be written 'avoid the XY problem'. At least this term can be searched.
 
@LucDanton Yes, searching for "avoid the XY problem" works. I got this;
89
Q: What is the XY problem?

GnomeWhat is the XY problem? When asking questions, how do I recognize when I'm falling into it? How do I avoid it? Return to FAQ index

 
11:30 AM
I want to shamelessly promote my question, as I think it's much worth to public good.
0
Q: Are there any plans or existing projects to port OpenGL API to C++?

Bartek BanachewiczThe OpenGL standard pages states that the OpenGL is callable from C and C++. The API, however, is of course in pure C. As the OpenGL uses for example a lot of enumerations, using enum-classes (from C++11) could greatly reduce number of errors and make the API more feasible for beginners. It could...

 
Is it a guarantee in C++11 that a local variable returned from a function will automatically be converted into a move?
 
@ManofOneWay what do you mean by converted into a move?
 
unique_ptr<x> x = foo(); <=> unique_ptr<x> x = std::move(local variable unqiue_ptr<x> from foo())
 
It depends.
 
@ManofOneWay Depending on your definition of 'a move', the answer is either 'yes' or 'it will be attempted first'.
The types must match however (otherwise it's not a move, no matter your definition).
 
11:35 AM
I'm assuming the types match =)
 
Guise.
 
@ManofOneWay I'm assuming foo() returns value. Is it correct?
 
GUYS
 
@Cicada WHAT?
 
Assume you're in a game. A video game.
You have 20% critical chance okay?
And then there's that item that add +5% critical chance.
 
11:38 AM
Take the blue pill!!
 
Is your final critical chance 25% or 21%?
 
@Cicada In LoL, it's 25%. Was it about LoL, actually?
 
@Cicada Depends on the game.
 
It's not. Its about using the MOTHERFUCKING CORRECT MATH words.
 
@Cicada Are you litb in disguys?
6
 
11:39 AM
lol
 
0
Q: Metastructures vs metafunctions

AbyxWhy do we still use structures and typedefs (or usings) for metaprogramming? Look at the code in this question - Inferring the call signature of a lambda or arbitrary callable for "make_function" : template<typename T> struct remove_class { }; template<typename C, typename R,...

^ /cc @ecatmur
 
@Cicada the percentage is just an additive number. If it was 21%, and you wore two items that increased your critical chance, which would be calculated first?
 
@Cicada If an item states "+5% crit", you can read it as "in 100 hits, 5 more than without it will be critical".
 
@rubenvb Whether you pick an additive or multiplicative approach, both result in a commutative group. Apply whichever you want first.
 
@LucDanton (100% + (50% of 100%)) + (33,3% of previous) != 100% + (33,3% of 100%) + 50% of previous, where previous is the part before the last "+".
 
11:44 AM
@LucDanton Yes, but which is the correct wording?
 
first case is 100% + 50% + 50%, second case is 100% + 33,3% + 66,6...%
 
@Cicada Both are correct.
 
@Cicada both are clear enough to the regular gamer.
 
I want the correct math wording, not regular gamer.
 
either that or you remove the percentage and make it a quantity with a maximum of 100, that is equal to the percentage of critical chance you have.
20 critical chance and an item with critical chance +5 gives critical chance 25 which means 25% chance of a critical something.
 
11:46 AM
@Cicada It's just too short. It if stated "increases your critical chance by 5%" it would be obviously wrong.
In math you need to be explicit to be correct, IMHO.
Duh. Why do we even argue? It's clear for everyone, and games won't use percent points, because they are far too unknown.
 
sbi
@MooingDuck Actually, it was copied to the tag wiki, and I removed it from there after I noticed that the two started to drift apart.
 
I think the average, standard player will say 25, and the more mathy person will say 21.
 
@Cicada Video game programmers tend to pick the former because most gamers won't think in terms of % of %
 
@Cicada the more mathy person knows how a game should work.
 
@Neil But that would imply that the wording is off, right?
 
11:51 AM
Unless they have OCD.
then they'll bitch about it. Those people are called ... pathetic.
 
@Cicada Depends who you ask. It's intuitive to most people, just not those who understand its' ambiguous
 
@rubenvb I can't make sense of your notation. Previous what? Why not use multiplication notation for a multiplicative group? E.g. 1 * 1.5 * 1.3 is unambiguously identical to 1 * 1.3 * 1.5.
 
Of course, I've heard +5% crit and discovered it meant +5% damage done by a critical
That's happened before
 
@Neil And games tend to be more intuitive than correct. They're games, after all. You won't and shouldn't find something like this in say, calculation programs.
 
@Cicada "+5 (percentage) points" would be the correct wording for an additive approach.
 
11:53 AM
@Neil It's usually +5%critdmg.
 
@LucDanton then @Cicada should just use a multiplicative modifier. It's obviously clearer. Critical chance modifier 1.05
 
I think they do criticals all wrong in video games and in d&d
 
@LucDanton Absolutely. I agree.
 
There should be a chance to, in addition to inflicting damage, a possibility of halving the enemy's life
 
I fixed the "XYness" in the "Asking questions" page
 
11:54 AM
Otherwise, you do a critical on a boss, and it's like nothing happens because of his high hit points
Hitting a boss in the freakin' eye ought to do something, don't you think?
 
@Neil That's not my experience with D&D (I'm a GM who has had several bosses one-hit killed by criticals; yes, my players are super lucky).
 
@Neil nah, bosses are immune to all buffs.
 
I detect far too much stats... I dislike this
 
@rubenvb Then you should have immune to critical if that's what you want
 
Well, anyway, percentages multiplication is much harder to do ingame than addition. In fast paced games, sitting with a calculator would be really annoying.
 
11:56 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well I mean you could just up the hit points and the effectiveness of criticals is reduced drastically
 
@Neil In paper-rpgs, most bosses are. Still, it depends.
 
@Neil that's just dumb. Critical shouldn't be a damage type.
 
How did we ever end up in this discussion o.O
 
@Neil It's not.
 
Critical to me means doing major damage, and if you do a critical and reduce enemy hit points by 5%, that's not impressive
 
11:56 AM
@BartekBanachewicz My awesome self.
 
@Neil It is impressive if a normal hit reduces the hp by 0.5%.
@BartekBanachewicz Only if you're an asshole. Your players like criticals.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well you know what I mean, critical should be, well, critical
Bosses in video games have always been these concepts of super-mega-elite enemies with high hitpoints (or at least hte major bosses)
 
@Neil And hard to kill bosses should be, well, hard to kill.
 
I think they should just be hard to hit in some fashion
Hard to hit = hard to kill
 
@Neil Players get frustrated when they keep missing repeatedly.
 
11:59 AM
@Neil Doesn't necessarily mean high hitpoints. And ultra - 50% of max HP - crit would make all bosses useless.
 
@Neil that's stupid in the case of a huge boss...
 
But hitting a boss, unless you have reason to assume they have godlike costitution, should be very little different than hitting a normal person
 
D&D is not about winning. It's about having fun. If you frustrate your players, you're doing it wrong.
 
It isn't that way because bosses are supposed to be hard, I'm just saying they should be hard in a different way
 
@rubenvb Hit doesn't mean "you actually hit" but "you hit actually doing some damage"
 
12:00 PM
@BartekBanachewicz If the boss can dodge, it means a hit is far more important, only that
You can balance it to have the same difficulty
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes collective story telling :)
 
In WoW there used to be hit chance and crit chance, respectively.
 
Ell
Hey guys, got gcse results back today. 7 * A and 4 * A* !!! Woooo!
3
 
It's the nintendo game boss idea that the boss is twice as big, has three times the hitpoints
 
@Ell well done
 
12:01 PM
@Ell Oh, you must be a f*cking genius.
 
And if he's your brother rival, he's going to have 5 times the hitpoints.. (even if there's no feasible explanation for that)
 
Ell
thank you :) I'm not a genius though, there are a lot of people getting 11/11 A*s :O
 
sbi
 
is crit not normal a % chance that a hit does bonus damage? so if you have 10% crit, but 25% hit change, 25% or your attacks will hit, but only 10% will actually it. ie, out of a 200 attacks, 50 will hit and of those 50, 5 will be a crit hit?
 
12:03 PM
@sbi just random?
 
@thecoshman Something like that.
@sbi A literate dog. Impressive.
 
@thecoshman Well not talking about what is but what it should be. Since you're tweaking how crits work, you'd have to tweak crit % to balance
 
@RadekSlupik there's a typo :)
 
@Neil I think it is a lot easier to think of crit as the chance of a hit (not just attack) doing bonus damage. the alternative is trying to think you have a 20% hit chance, and a 5% crit chance, meaning 75% of your attacks are misses
 
@sehe No.
It was on purpose.
 
12:07 PM
I tried a low-hp high-miss system once. It was fun, but it's a lot more dangerous, and players don't like to have their characters dead.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes sounds a bit silly to me. unless you have a poor player, his chance to hit should be rather high
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Baldur's gate starts out like that.
 
@thecoshman Against a boss, I think that's fair. If you can kill in 3 hits or 1 crit, then it gets exciting to hit. Otherwise you're doing round after round of repeated damage
 
of course, IMO it should also not be a static thing, it should depend on who you are attacking
 
duh/ I know - it was in appreciation
Learn to read smileys
 
12:09 PM
@Neil yeah, you can still have it so that three normal hits would take out the boss, but if the first one was a crit then it does bonus damage and takes him out
though, how you present it to the user does not have to be the same as how the system works
 
@thecoshman Well it's all relative to the hp of the boss. It would have more hp if players could hit easily, for obvious reasons
 
@Neil depends how long you want to the boss to last
you may decide that the boss is hard to get to, making the player dodge around for a while and get a few attacks in
which IMO is usually more fun then just standing there slashing untill either the boss or my self die
 
formula should be boss hp = chance to hit * damage * rounds, so if you lower hp, you'd have to lower chance to hit or damage
 
@Abyx rescued your question to have an actual question.
 
roughly speaking yes
 
12:12 PM
without unbalancing the formula, I think you should lower chance to hit and increase damage, that's all
and quite possibly lower boss hp
rounds would stay the same
 
generally I would probably say so, else (like I said) the player will just have to stand there attacking for ages
 
What on earth are we discussing? If kyrostat -> kyrostat.com, otherwise, what is the point :)
 
@ecatmur thanks :)
 
@Ell good work, and in the first year ever when they actually made the exams harder than the previous year.
 
@sehe I have no idea what happened to dom, he seems to have stopped working on the site
admittedly, I have not done much on the code either :(
 
Ell
12:14 PM
@ecatmur thank you :) I know I could have done better though :/ Didn't revise near enough so I'm pretty pleased
 
@Ell it's enough to get into A levels isn't it?
 
Ell
@thecoshman Yeah it is :) But still
 
@Ell then that's all that matters :P
 
Ell
I guess :)
 
relax for a few more weeks, then you can start busting your balls to get good enough A level results to get into UNI :P
where you can bust your balls for a few years to get a decent job
where you can bust your balls for a few decades to get a good funeral
 
12:24 PM
@sehe what is it?
 
Ell
haha that is life
 
@sehe Duh. Do I really have to read all that "bacon"?
 
Ell
kyrostat hasn't really got started yet has it?
 
@Ell sadly I fear it's not coping to well outside of the womb
 
Ell
12:28 PM
:/ It is very difficult to get a project started, I find
Maybe a spec/some milestones would help?
 
there are plenty of things to be done listed in our bitbucket site, but not much has happened
I think people got a bit too hung up on waiting for a shiny site to host all our dev stuff
 
Ell
yeah
well a bit of good looking stuff is good for morale
 
I know I could do with spending some more time on the little bit I was working on, but keep failing to give it the time
 
Ell
I'm diving into android dev atm
 
@BartekBanachewicz No. But you asked
@Ell "maybe" a little less "maybe" would help. And intrinsic motivation :)
 
12:33 PM
@sehe I wanted something more like a one-line description
 
I was honestly hoping I could spur myself into doing a side project, but life happens and I'm finding it difficult to dedicate time to it
 
@BartekBanachewicz It is a vaporware game by some of the regulars in the lounge
 
wow, cool.
 
frigid, actually
 
(removed)
 
12:43 PM
@sehe sadly, vaporware is all to apt a description
 
how does one 'apt' a description, besides 'by using vaporware'?
 
@sehe *too
 
@sehe perhaps I spelt it wrong, I mean to say that 'vapourware is a very good description for kyrostat'
 
Thanks, Cpt. & Sgt. obvious :)
Oct 22 '11 at 0:22, by Alf P. Steinbach
user image
^ I liked that oine
On the same page of history:
Oct 22 '11 at 3:50, by StackedCrooked
This video is so wrong. It shows pictures of the actor named "Andrew Koenig" who died a while ago. Some of the pictures turn out to be the C++ Koenig. Oops.
 
Ell
@sehe I'm guessing the c++ one is the one with the cat?
 
12:51 PM
@Ell I haven't watched it. Yet. At work
 
sbi
@BartekBanachewicz It's not my dog, that's for sure. I'm not a dog person.
 
@sbi woof
 
Ell
"Russian man rides tiny bike" collegehumor.com/video/6815288/…
 
sbi
@sehe No need to watch it to answer that question. If the Andrew Koenig is among the pictures, and if there's pictures of a man with a cat, those two will necessarily correlate.
@DeadMG Go and find yourself a bitch to woof at.
 
Ell
ughh android is annoying! Intent, activity etc. etc. o.O
 
1:07 PM
Google test question: I have a test which I would like to run with different input data and obviously different results to test. How can I avoid repeating boilerplate code?
@Ell amazing :)
 
@Nils lol wtf?
 
@sehe old
 
@Nils write a function
 
heh well the macros for assertions, failure,etc do not seem to work in a free standing function
 
@Nils yep, bcoz gtest uses return inside of them
try for ... EXPECT_TRUE(fn(data));
 
1:24 PM
thank you @Abyx
 
Xeo
This doesn't seem to be a good book, judging from the table of contents. "Chapter 27: Standardizing on the Standard Template Library." is definitly atleast 25 chapters too late. From the excerpts, he also declares variables and assigns them afterwards, which is bad style in C++. Overall, I'd not recommend it from the few things that are publicly available about the book. — Xeo 1 min ago
Comments?
hm, doesn't seem to render comments a second time :s
whatev
 
@Xeo String response; response = "what a load a moaning over nothing"; operator<<(cout, response);
 
Xeo
@thecoshman Just keeping the books list clean :P
 
What book?
 
Xeo
@Nils Follow the comment link
 
1:31 PM
why is this change never imported to C++? gcc.gnu.org/viewcvs?view=revision&revision=172857
damn GCC.
 
for Dummies by n00bs
these books are never good
If you want something simple learn Java.
 
I've found the Puppy's CV
7
equally fitting for the cat me thinks...
sorry guys :P
 
Saying sorry to the Cat is like talking to a stone.
2
 
"Some college you haven't" heard of lol
< back to work cu
 
@Nils ?
 
1:44 PM
@Abyx Well I would like to have one test case per data item, so I see where it fails using a loop is quite a bad idea I think..
 
@thecoshman What. How does that fit?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes same cocky 'what does school really matter' attitude. same refusal to just put up with shit. same sarcastic way of talking
 
@thecoshman The writer is a "Bachelor of Arts". What does school really matter?
Majored in "Liberal Arts".
 
From the linked page: "You’ll discover ten ways to avoid adding bugs to your programs, what pointers are and how to use them". Holy crap: The #1 way to avoid adding bugs to your programs, is by avoiding the use of pointers! — sehe 38 secs ago
 
@sehe :O
 
sbi
1:49 PM
@RadekSlupik A stone won't reply with such vitriolic remarks.
 
@sehe This articulates the idea really well, I think drdobbs.com/cpp/undefined-behavior-versus-teaching/240006058
 
Talking to me is like talking to a random number generator.
 
Learning C++ top-down is better even if you are mostly interested in the down parts.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes there's a missing semicolon in his code sample.
 
sbi
@sehe That answer needs two more votes to get deleted.
 
1:54 PM
like the first comment I now read also says.
 
@rubenvb I didn't even read the code.
 
@sbi Woa.
 
@rubenvb His code code sample is a mess in my browser
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel What?
@sehe Same here. (FF)
 
@RadekSlupik So, E_NOACCESS
 
1:56 PM
@sbi One.
 
@sbi I remember this always being a problem with dr dobbs articles. Sort of concluded it was my use of Opera. I'm surprised the problem affects more people
@R.MartinhoFernandes Done
 
@sehe The code is borked on Chrome too.
 
Ok, fair to conclude: the code is b0rked
 
sbi
I didn't even know people are still answering to that book question. That's dumb, you'd think the "historical" remark would stop them.
 
1:58 PM
Anyway, the code isn't really crucial.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, same here.
 
@sbi Of course this only opens the door for Mr. X+1 to post hist favourite book, namely: "C++ For Dummies" sometime later :)
 
I dislike the general "you gotta learn low level first because you need to understand how stuff works underneath" argument.
 
1:59 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I didn't try to read it. I just observed it was a mess and continued on
 
@EtiennedeMartel it's easier to learn the higher level stuff first, and then if you so wish you can dig deeper, imho
 

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