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7:00 PM
@Nils yer, you still need to pay if you want to make money from UDK
 
yeah if you make money
 
@Tony then you're good, by definition
 
@AlfPSteinbach oh nice :)
 
@Nils technically, if you decide to release, you still have to $99 even if no one ever actually buys you game
 
C++ gave me a new view on programming :)
 
7:02 PM
@Tony that it does take skill?
 
@thecoshman but I think you haven't to pay if you relase it as a freeware
 
@thecoshman yea amongst other things
 
I have a low view of C#
 
you can't do C++ blindly like you can most of C#
 
humm I don't know what would be the alternative?
 
7:03 PM
@BlackBear true, if your not going to charge you are ok
 
quake3 engine is gpl
 
so it seems you guys are all fairly familiar in some of the game dev world
 
@DeadMG OGRE is a collection of singletons marinated in singletons, with a few singletons sprinkled on top
2
 
so what does it take to even start doing that kind of stuff?
 
@Tony What kind of stuff? Hobby game development, I assume? Or big commercial stuff?
 
7:05 PM
but I guess you don't get the source if you use the UDK.. just an API?
 
@jalf hobby for a starters
 
don't need anything to hobbyist develop
 
commercial would only ever come if I would ever be good enough to do it
which is prob not very likely
 
MSDN and the DirectX SDK are very free
 
@Tony nothing, really. Pick a platform, pick a graphics API, write some code :D
or use an existing engine. I'm hearing a lot of positive things about Unity
 
7:06 PM
@jalf sounds simple enough, but what about all the math involved
not too difficult?
 
the maths aint that bad
 
@Tony it's not too bad. Nothing a reasonable college textbook won't cover
 
mostly vectors, matrixs and quaternions
 
@jalf hmmm interesting
 
Trigonometry and matrix multiplication, and you're basically there
the rest, you can look up as needed
 
7:07 PM
but you can just let a library do all the hard work for you.
 
@jalf luckily I know those :)
@thecoshman yes, but I do like to understand what goes on, not just blindly use a function from some API and have no idea what it's doing
 
the nice thing about game code is that there's a huge amount of tutorials and guides and articles written about it
the downside is that a lot of it is written by idiots ;)
 
I would recommend nehe's openGL tuts
 
@jalf yea probably
 
there are some devtools like openframeworks and cinder
 
7:08 PM
but a competent programmer should be able to pick the worthwhile bits, and ignore the rest
 
there's also lots of incompetent programmers out there that think they can code, but in reality they only write crap
2
 
@Tony that's why I am building my own engine. I want to know what is actaully doing on.
 
libcinder looks nice.. but well it's made for visualization project more than gaming, but you don't have to do low level opengl
 
if you look up a tutorial on Direct3D or OpenGL, then you'll get a pretty good introduction to the fundamental maths involved
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Where the eloquent well-mannered folks congregate
3
 
7:09 PM
@AlfPSteinbach he he he, fucking brilliant. Truly the dogs bollocks :D
 
@AlfPSteinbach I like that :)
 
oh, on the topic of writing engines, this should be required reading: scientificninja.com/blog/write-games-not-engines
 
@Tony yer... that's what I meant to say.
I would say that 'game programming gems' series should be on your shelf.
I am gutted that I leave uni soon, going cost me a bomb getting all of them. they are brilliant books
 
@thecoshman I have been very tempted to buy them all
but as you say, will cost a fortune
but a nice series though :)
question is, when to read them all?
 
The first one seems to be like £100 for a new copy
 
7:12 PM
sometimes you find them in pdf with the aid of google
 
I take them to bed with me
 
@BlackBear I want paper books
not PDF
 
@BlackBear yes... but we dont download forced free copies of books do we :P
 
@thecoshman have you read in one of them?
how are they written?
for newbs or for advanced ?
 
I have all eight sat next to me. borrowed from uni library
Some of the articles are a bit ott for a newb, youll not understand why they are doing things they are doing
 
7:13 PM
what about Game Programming Complete?
anyone got that?
 
but they have articles for all levels of debelopment
@Tony not got that one
 
@thecoshman yea, I need to get some good books on game dev
definitely an area I am interested in
even for just hobbying around
in C++ of course
 
Humm but if you use that Unreal development kit you can only use Unreal script and not a C++ api or something?
 
You don't really need a book to get started. Of course, that's not saying you won't gain anything from reading one, but basic hobby game development is really pretty straightforward for anyone who knows how to program already
 
7:17 PM
@Nils no lua :O
 
I heard Unity is pretty good, but that's C#
never used that..
 
@Nils it's Mono. So not just C#, but anything that compiles to MSIL
I believe they recommend Javascript, actually
anyway, learning a new language should be seen as an opportunity imo
 
@Tony I wouldn't start with the game gem books. get a basic 3d world gonig, then get the game gems to make code much better
 
JavaScript?!
 
@jalf tried Spanish in school, didn't go well
@Nils JS is actually a fairly good script language. For a game it could work rather well.
 
7:19 PM
@Nils Yeah. Sounds odd, but on further thought, why not? It's not such a bad language, as long as you keep it out of the browser
 
Though I have not actually hear of java script for games
 
And it's compiled/JIT'ed to run on Mono, of course
 
@thecoshman semicolon insertion? Well I never really learned JS..
 
When I am free from the shackles of education, I am going to look into LUA enabling my code
 
If I didn't have a million other projects I wanted to work on, I'd love to try embedding SML as a scripting language for a game
always was fond of ML, for some reason
 
7:21 PM
humm ID software is probably going to open source the Doom3 engine later this year
 
I was thinking of starting with a menu system, but then I get stuck trying to work out what should be done via script and what via c++
 
Maybe. Remember they were bought by Bethesda, so they might not be allowed to go around open-sourcing valuable code any longer ;)
 
humm I don't know..
@thecoshman many companies bought a menu system as a component.. I think Crytek also bought something
 
anyway, I don't really know why you'd bother with it. Doesn't seem like there'd be much point in using the Doom 3 engine over all the alternatives available
 
So which one could u reccommend?
 
7:24 PM
Just roll you own, more fun that way :P
 
it's old, and it's not really written to be nice to work with for third parties, and it's optimized for GPUs that don't actually exist :p
@Nils depends on your goals. If you just want to make a game, I'd probably go with Unity. I'm not usually a fan of those big pre-rolled frameworks, but I have to admit the speed with which people produce games in Unity, and the quality of the games, is pretty amazing
 
for GPUs that don't actually exist?
wow I didn't know they used Speedtree in Avatar
cool
 
yeah, GPUs developed in a different direction than the Doom 3 engine assumed. It relied on some heavy-duty texture fiddling, where GPUs actually focused much more on raw shader power. So it's not really well optimized for today's GPUs
 
@thecoshman how do I get a 3d world going?
 
that's always the danger when you try to make a cutting edge graphics engine. You have to guess at what GPUs will look like a couple of years from now, and sometimes, you guess wrong ;)
 
7:28 PM
wow, erm not really a simple question :P
@Tony I would recommend going through tutorials here nehe.gamedev.net they are openGL, but the basic theory is the same with directX
 
ok
 
@thecoshman I'm not known for asking simple questions
lol
 
old but probably still interesting
 
sbi
@AlfPSteinbach You know, whenever someone feels the need to brag about being X, you can be certain that he's anything but X.
 
@Tony I'll try to answer in a post. You first need a windowing library, (GLUT, SDL WIN32 etc.) get it to make your window, then get DirectX/OpenGL to initialise. Set up a virtual camera. through some geometry at the graphics card. Update you game world, draw, update etc etc.
 
7:33 PM
@Tony the math is surprisingly simple, actually. It takes a bit of practice to get used to all the coordinate transformations and projections
but every "3d graphics 101" tutorial will cover it
 
7:47 PM
I think I need a brake from computer... my eyes! o_0
 
lol
mine were fucked before the computer, so
 
it terrible, during the course of my degree I have gone from perfect vision, to short sited enough that I was told I could do with glasses... I have them around somewhere :P (I think it's short sited, the one where things far away a blurry)
 
yeah
 
yer, things about more then 3 meters are noticeable fuzzy for me
 
3 meters? you're doing well
 
7:53 PM
I just can't help being nerdy :P
@DeadMG I also have very poor concept of meters :P
 
someone knows NASM?
 
lol
 
8:21 PM
@BlackBear I know about it
but I've never coded in it per se
although I do understand some asm
lol
 
@Tony could you give a look here please? stackoverflow.com/questions/5212941/…
 
@jalf you're pretty optimistic about my ability to learn graphics programming, haha
 
@Tony its really not that hard. The hard part is having a good idea that make you want to spend the time making it happen
 
@thecoshman that's a good point you make there
 
@Tony It's true though. Their are going to be times when it takes fecking ages to work out why something is not working. You need to have something that make you want to spend 10 hours straight to solve it
 
8:32 PM
@thecoshman yea, I don't disagree... however it's something that interests me
and in at the end of the day, it can only make you a better programmer, or not?
 
Come may, I am done with uni, heading over the Ireland with my lady and going to start work on a game that has been brewing in my head for a while. There are so many ideas that I want to get going now, but I know I need to finish this degree and do it well.
 
@thecoshman yea finish your degree, it's important
I can only say that after having failed to get one and now having to work in the industry
 
@Tony so they say :P
 
finding a job without a degree isn't proving to be easy
 
I'm sure it's not
 
8:36 PM
so your degree can only help you later on
believe me
 
I just wish I had the money to be able to spend some time working on my own little game, seeing how far I can take it with in say 6 months. But sadly, I am starting of skint, so I am going to need to get a job and just work in free time. Thankfully me and my girlfriend are pre-emptively inheriting her granny's house now that she is in a home, so going to save a bomb on rent/mortgage
Just food and bills... easier said then done :P
 
@thecoshman well, if you every want any help developing... I'm here
haha
 
@Tony lol sure why not!
 
always out for a new challenge
 
@Nils No -- when I was growing up, my neighbor's uncle had been a medic during WWII, and loved to tell us about it...
 
8:47 PM
I have a really vivid picture in my head of what I want to make, I just have be careful with how I go about due to potential copyright/intellectual property issues. My girlfriends brother was starting to get into 3D modelling; I ain't to bad at it, but hate it; and he is very much on the same wave length with my idea.
 
graphics itself isn't my thing either
I want code!!!
 
I also know some one who looks to be a dab hand with audio related code. I looked into a bit, but not had a chance to look in depth. Things like handling stereo 5.1 or 7.1 speaker set ups. How to make a noise sound like it is coming from behind you. I am sure that when I work on that part I will be able to find plenty of material around, I know the game gem books cover it as well. It's currently alien to me
Google really is amazing for game development :P
 
@thecoshman that sounds very interesting
 
@Tony more like a head job :P
 
@thecoshman that could be taken the wrong way
 
8:56 PM
@Tony ¬_¬
My respect for you has just gone up
 
hahaha :P
 
so tired... but need to finish writing about terrain optomisation -_-
 
@thecoshman if only I knew what that was...
but I haven't the slightest
 
imagine the terrain for huge world. You'r plain stupid to try to render it all. terrain optimisation is reducing it down so you only draw what you can see and that what you can see is only drawn at a level of detail that is sufficient to show it properly
 
sbi

So two Stack Overflow users walk into a bar...

5 hours ago, 29 seconds total – 4 messages, 1 user, 0 stars

Bookmarked 5 hours ago by Yi Jiang

 
9:01 PM
oh deer
 
@sbi lol
@sbi I've been exposed to the torture of .NET again
arrrghhh
I am quite liking C++ over .NET these days
wow, .NET properties.... painful...
 
Got a friend who develops with .NET and he seems to quit like it, not sure why, but he knows his shit in it
 
@thecoshman its not that I'm shit at .NET programming, it's just C++ is my preference
 
@Tony ah no, what I mean is that he knows what he is doing with .NET. I mean sort of like you might refer to something as being 'good shit', picture it more with stoners who are appreciating their spliff
 
hahah
 
9:16 PM
nope, I'm beat for the night! time for some cath up TV... wait shit, top-gear finished already! 3rd Rock it is :D
 
I have a class which inherits from many other classes, one of the classes has a size() method. Just calling size() does not work but (*this).size() does, why?
 
@Nils sounds like OO wanking
 
uhh and what's the semicolon after a function definition on line 00180 foam.sourceforge.net/doc/Doxygen/html/Cloud_8H_source.html ?
@Tony well it's quite complicated OO and I would like to know why it only works with (*this)..
aargh now gdb claims not to know some of my source files
even though it claims to know most of the source files
 
sbi
Most of you will know that I'm all in favor of holding up the fine traditions of this room, including (but not limited to) the regular change of its description, and that I'm not at all adverse to using, erm, shall we say: subtle puns for doing so.
Well, that urge to follow the tradition and regularly change the room's description extends especially to the current one.
I might be able to live on after being called "eloquent and well-mannered", but I do most seriously object to my appearance here being called a "congregation"!
 
9:32 PM
@sbi it does technically say "congregate", not sure if that then implies we are a congregation...
which we aren't
 
I would prefer the word coalesce
 
 
1 hour later…
10:47 PM
This is quite dumb, I know, but what's wrong with this code again: codepad.org/VGCpDChc
 
the two ~ symbols?
 
11:06 PM
because you didn't take a reference
you should have done
*scratch = new double[10];
and it should be delete[] a
 
array< Byte >^ Buffer = gcnew array< Byte >(10);
what does the ^ stand for?
i'm using vs2008
 
I finally crossed 20k today :)
 
I just crossed 1300 :P
 
@BlackBear: It means managed reference
 
11:22 PM
@Nils Is this a templated class? Does it inherit from one of the type arguments, or from a template that is instantiated with one of the template arguments (the one that provides size()? If so, then size(); in the current templated class is dependent on the type arguments... and then the two pass template compilation magic are biting you
 
so..? it's something like * in C?
 
@BlackBear: Yes, basically. It allocates memory off the .NET garbage collected heap and declares a reference to it
 
@DeadMG ok, thanks :)
 
similar to void* mem = malloc(10); except that the GC reference will be garbage collected for you, and you create types, not just blocks of memory
 
i think managed c++ isn't a good choice, is it?
 
11:45 PM
@Nils Besides the two ~ symbols (cut-n-paste from vi??) there is another issue: the effect inside the function is not seen outside of it, you should do: *scratch = new double[10]; instead. As it is, you are copying the value from main's a, and then modifying the local --which will not affect the outside var
@Nils uhm... that and the combination of new[]/delete (non-[]), which is another issue yet... you should really pair new/delete and new[]/delete[] always
Simplest solution would be:
void asdf( double*& a ) {
a = new double[10];
}
int main() {
double *a;
asdf( a );
delete [] a;
}
 
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