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9:03 PM
@jaggedSpire the only constructor taking std::initializer_list takes a list of CharTs, it’s kinda irrelevant
 
@LucDanton it still complained that the initializer list constructor wasn't implemented
 
Well, it's no surprised since th change dates from C++14 only.
 
eh, 2013 has inconsistent 14 support but you're right
 
Ven
@Zoidberg go certainly has the "mainstream" part as a big advantage
@Zoidberg meh, it's gonna be closed at the end of the scopes anyway amirite : ^)
 
user1804599
no
 
Ven
oh, I really need to watch Durarara 2
 
user1804599
Defer stack is per callee, not per scope.
 
Ven
the ": ^)" usually means irony, so, yea
I don't see an issue with my current code, I'll leave it like that :D
 
user1804599
And amirite is a mineral.
 
user1804599
FetLife has this annoying banner that you can hide but comes back after refreshing the page.
 
Ven
@Zoidberg seriously tho, once the request dies, the body should die with it
 
user1804599
Oh, it does yes. I think.
 
user1804599
Returning from the request handler closes the request body.
 
user1804599
// The Server will close the request body. The ServeHTTP
// Handler does not need to.
 
Ven
see, I don't need to do it thus :-)
 
9:14 PM
why algorithms don't use ADL for iter_swap? it could be overloaded for linked lists
 
user1804599
well I didn't know you were reading request bodies.
 
Ven
linked what? Don't say that phrase when @Mysticial is around, he gets angry easily.
@Zoidberg I know, I'm joking :P
 
@Abyx I think they're supposed to. I've used implementations of iter_swap that used a qualified std::swap call. Maybe your implementation is similarly broken?
 
user1804599
@Ven now I want to write something in Go. :'(
 
@caps libc++ uses _VSTD::iter_swap
oh actually libc++ uses swap() everywhere
meh
 
9:19 PM
@Abyx _very std?
 
@melak47 _VERSION_STD?
Like ::std::v2:: ...
 
1 hour ago, by caps
So I know, of course, about the Definitive C++ Book Guide and List, but none of those are tutorial-style / project-based introductions to the language. Does anyone know of a good book (or blog, or website) that introduces programmers to C++ using projects that they build, compile, and run as they go along? In the style of Head First, Dietel, etc.?
Is this a question I should just put on SO?
 
@caps no
 
Ven
@Zoidberg ew go, who'd write a single line of code in that language? sounds disgusting
:3
 
user1804599
Maybe I'll take another go at that log indexer.
 
Ven
9:25 PM
@Zoidberg I need to get a lastinsertid. moar googlin'
hey, it's actually really easy. nice.
 
user1804599
Dunno MySQL.
 
user1804599
In PostgreSQL you can use INSERT INTO ... RETURNING id.
 
@Abyx It can't be overload for linked lists since algorithms are not allowed to modify the containers.
 
user1804599
But since recently I started using app-generated IDs instead of DB-generated ones and everything got so much easier.
 
Ven
@Zoidberg database/sql .Exec returns a Result which has LastInsertId
 
user1804599
9:27 PM
ok cool
 
@Morwenn I mean that with linked list you could swap (re-link) nodes instead of their values
 
Yep, and that's not allowed because relinking nodes counts as modifying the container.
Otherwise you can be pretty sure that standard libraries would already be doing that.
 
I sort of get the point but why it's bad?
 
Algorithms guarantees, consistency, etc...
 
well... yeah it would change the order of elements
it wouldn't really invalidate the iterators, but such swapping would just move all the iterators back
 
9:31 PM
On the other hand, there is a proposal to make iter_swap a customization point and to introduce an iter_move function.
 
welp that won't be a major improvement
 
Some of my algorithms don't work without it.
 
user1804599
@Ven eww can't handle multiple generated columns
 
user1804599
and only integers
 
user1804599
eww eww eww
 
Ven
9:35 PM
@Zoidberg ah, yeah
correct. only int64, even
 
user1804599
database-generated IDs eww anyway
 
user1804599
App-generated UUIDs master race.
 
from what I understand, iter_something is needed because you cannot dereference an rvalue, e.g. swap(*a, *f()) is not valid because the Iterator concept allows only *i and not *rv
 
I don't like this assignment.
 
which one?
 
Ven
9:37 PM
this assignment!
 
"Please use the shitty way of working with containers specifically so you can have shit performance in some cases."
 
@Morwenn can you give an example?
 
Note to self: do not trust Eigen with return types.
 
@Abyx I am implementing a Schartzian transform adapter for my sorting algorithms, but it would be a bit hard to explain. Eric Niebler introduced that to solve the problems of std::vector<bool> and zip_iterator.
 
Ven
@Morwenn schw
 
9:40 PM
@набиячлэвэлиь Oh?
 
You can't really swap two std::vector<bool>::reference but given the iterators you can perform a proper swap.
 
@Morwenn "Implemented Schwartzian transform adaptor" sounds like something cool to put on my CV.
 
@Abyx See this article.
 
I have no idea what it means though.
 
@StackedCrooked Not really, it's 3 lines of Perl.
 
9:41 PM
@ThePhD For the longest time I've been having this segfault(?), it went away after specifying the getter lambda's return type to be const T &
 
@Morwenn oh, lol
 
user1804599
Everything is.
 
The Schwartzian transform is a computer science programming idiom used to improve the efficiency of sorting a list of items. This idiom is appropriate for comparison-based sorting when the ordering is actually based on the ordering of a certain property (the key) of the elements, where computing that property is an intensive operation that should be performed a minimal number of times. The Schwartzian transform is notable in that it does not use named temporary arrays. The idiom is named after Randal L. Schwartz, who first demonstrated it in Perl shortly after the release of Perl 5 in 1994. The...
 
@набиячлэвэлиь I believe a lambda's return type and auto return types without a trailing return type std::decay returned arguments.
 
@Morwenn knowing it's three lines of perl, on the other hand... :P
 
9:43 PM
So it was probably creating a temporary that then was bound to a const T& and then ended up being destroyed.
 
user1804599
> where computing that property is an intensive operation that should be performed a minimal number of times
 
@Morwenn thanks
 
user1804599
computing the length of a string is not expensive
 
user1804599
it's fucking cheap
 
Yeah, the example is bad.
 
user1804599
9:44 PM
it's literally just reading eight bytes
 
Basically it's just a way to compute projections once instead of computing them on-the-fly when comparing the values to sort.
If your projection is really expensive (I don't know which kind of projection it might be), then using a Schwartzian transform might be worth it.
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
dat robot
 
@ThePhD I was also assigning the lambda ([&](int x, int y) {return map(y, x);}) to function<const cell &(int, int)>
 
RIP
 
9:50 PM
After turning it into [&](int x, int y) -> const cell & {return map(y, x);} it worked
Goddamn typesystems
 
@Zoidberg I like their naming scheme
 
user1804599
:p
 
I'm always down for distantly menacing wording
 
Ven
> panic serving [::1]:56909: runtime error: invalid memory address or nil pointer dereference
first panic after 3/4 hours of go (and it's because I was an idiot)
 
> nil pointer dereference
 
user1804599
10:00 PM
good programmer
 
user1804599
I also get panics rarely
 
user1804599
sometimes I get panics due to deadlocks
 
they should've make Optional in Go
 
user1804599
then I get reminded of overcomplicating my concurrent code
 
user1804599
since recently you can get panics due to unsynchronised concurrent map writes
 
10:09 PM
@набиячлэвэлиь Also important to note that this is (was?) a bit of a breaking change.
Prior to C++11 I believe std::function required the return types to match exactly.
 
@ThePhD It doesn't now?
 
@набиячлэвэлиь IIRC is just requires that the expression would compile given the ordering of things.
 
Fuck type systems
 
Like now you can do std::function<void(stuff)> and pass it a function that returns stuff, which it would just discard.
(Before, it would error.)
 
Click some :cookie::cookie::cookie::cookie:
 
10:14 PM
Cookie clicker got an update?
 
Some time ago yes
It has dragons now
 
... wut
 
Well, one dragon
 
Is it jealous of your cookie stockpile?
 
You can sacrifice buildings to it an it gives you passive effects
> Golden cookies may trigger a Dragonflight (x1111 click power for 11 seconds).
 
user1804599
10:17 PM
Ik schep software.
 
@Zoidberg Schep nog een beetje voort.
 
user1804599
Ik heb software geschapen.
 
user1804599
Ik ben een softwareschepper.
 
Jij hebt sex met schapen.
 
Ven
./user.go:23: cannot use value (type []string) as type []interface {} in argument to db.QueryRow
 
10:21 PM
Good morning
 
Ven
duh.
 
user1804599
@Ven use the built-in copy function.
 
@Ven You doing '06 Java collections?
 
user1804599
Oh, that doesn't work. LOL.
 
user1804599
copy y u type equality instead of assignability.
 
10:22 PM
@набиячлэвэлиь looks more like Go
 
Xeo
@ThePhD Prior to C++11 there was no std::function...
 
2 hours ago, by набиячлэвэлиь
Why Go is not good /cc @Zoidberg
 
Updated the benchmark to use Nonius. Note that on Coliru, the circular buffer ran ~as quick as the linear version. That could be a fluke, which is why I prefer to use a Nonius which does more measurements. — sehe 14 secs ago
All hail the nonius.io
 
I must try benchmark.net
 
user1804599
@Ven I think append([]interface{}{}, strings...) should work.
 
Ven
10:27 PM
ew.
@набиячлэвэлиь we all read that
Go makes programming bland
 
user1804599
No, it doesn't either. Lol.
 
user1804599
Yeah I wish copy worked with assignability.
 
@Ven I've only just discovered it
 
Ven
it's okay anyway, I changed the param's type
@набиячлэвэлиь ah, sorry
 
@sehe your code looks nice
 
10:30 PM
huh. I didn't do a lot. You mean the hack to initialize the random data?
 
no just in general
 
ahahaha. I forgot to post it.
 
user1804599
anys := make([]interface{}, len(strings))
for i, s := range strings {
    anys[i] = s
}
 
user1804599
You have to do this.
 
@StackedCrooked added
 
user1804599
10:36 PM
Still my favourite etymology:
 
user1804599
Noun: tokkie m ‎(plural tokkies, diminutive tokkietje n)
  1. (Netherlands, informal, pejorative) A lower-class person who is perceived to be unsophisticated and seen as likely to engage in antisocial behaviour....
 
lol, never heard that word
 
@Zoidberg I don't call anything invented less than 10 years ago etymology
More like: meme
 
user1804599
that's weird
 
user1804599
it's a neologism
 
10:38 PM
That's also acceptible
 
user1804599
also 2004 is more than 10 years ago
 
@sehe You have 3 raw for loops. Sean will not be happy about this.
 
@Zoidberg haha
@StackedCrooked I actually don't. The OP does
 
Oh.
Ok. Sean loves you.
 
I added the accumulate. And the generate_n :)
And the copy_n instead of iterator juggling etc.
 
user1804599
10:39 PM
> Sinds wanneer kun je in Nederland niet meer betalen met de gulden?
> Ik ken helemoal niet betalen. Ik hem alleen maar deurwoarders.
 
user1804599
@sehe Iterator juggling sounds like a ring buffer.
 
That's implementation details. No need to see it at the interface level. Well, not that much at least
 
@Zoidberg Since the year 200[0-2]. Don't remember exactly.
@Ell I don't understand but have an upvote anyway :)
 
user1804599
Algebraic data types in PureScript allow implying invariants nicely:
 
user1804599
data List a = Nil | Cons a (List a)        -- strict; finite
data List a =       Cons a (Lazy (List a)) -- lazy; infinite
data List a = Nil | Cons a (Lazy (List a)) -- lazy; finite or infinite
 
10:48 PM
Pretty funny thread on Unicode baby names
Avoiding U+0007 does keep them eligible for a no-bell prize. @stuartmarks @Pearfalse @voxel
5
 
@sehe lol
 
user1804599
@sehe dat pun
 
@JerryCoffin I'm kinda curious why you want to know this? :)
@Zoidberg Wasn't that the title of Herb's talk on atomics?
 
razor blades, actually
 
10:55 PM
No, wait, that was "juggling razor blades".
@jaggedSpire Right.
I should watch that talk again.
 
I should watch it the first time
 
Anyway, I'd rather juggle razor blades than chainsaws.
 
Of course I need a dangerous amount of knowledge about atomics, why wouldn't I
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked sounds like C++
 
user1804599
I think Sutter uses razor blades to cut his herbs so he can smoke them more easily before writing new C++ feature proposals.
 
Ven
10:59 PM
LOL
 
@ThePhD you don't deserve it
 
user1804599
Is "lucifer" a common synonym for "match" (as in lighters) in English?
 
@thecoshman I do. :<
 
user1804599
> archaic
 
user1804599
hmmm
 
11:00 PM
@Xeo Oh, maybe it was a C++14 change or a Defect Report?
 
user1804599
> A self-igniting match, ie. one which could be lit by striking on any surface (as opposed to safety matches which only light against the material on the side of the box).
 
user1804599
Oh I see.
 
in Discussion between Thomas and sehe, 1 min ago, by sehe
@Thomas Yeah, it's kinda funny how things don't compile down to memmove for circular buffer. But, there you have it. You asked what was wrong/why it was slow ;)
 
@Morwenn Just heard Credens justitiam again. It's a good track that I almost forgot about.
 
Ven
@Zoidberg they stopped doing those because DANGEROUS
 
user1804599
11:03 PM
Yes they seem very dangerous.
 
user1804599
It is good that people are discouraged from using dangerous goods.
 
@ThePhD wtf for?
 
@thecoshman Tax returns, yo.
 
user1804599
Funfact: 50% of people are of below-average intelligence.
 
From the last 3 years they haven't given me it .-.
 
11:04 PM
@ThePhD point still stands
 
Ven
@Zoidberg not 50% :)
 
 
Ven
a bit less
 
Powerful shit
 
What was robot's motivation for writing nonius over, for instance, re-using google benchmark? cc @sehe
 
11:04 PM
@Zoidberg that depends how you take the average
 
Ven
@sehe no: trump doesn't run the mafia
 
@sehe That guy scares me more than any American politician in my lifetime that's had his level of success/popularity.
 
user1804599
Berlusconi used Ruby. Nuff said.
 
Ven
taking a very specific part of the story doesn't make everything else true.
 
@caps You seem to be asking the wrong person. I think he's mentioned "correctness/reliable output" with "a modern C++ interface"
@Ven buhuhuh. Really.
 
Ven
11:05 PM
really
 
Then who do you think runs the American enterprise lobby
 
@caps He wrote nonius before google benchmark really existed at all.
 
user1804599
Trump's accountants know a lot about money. Trump must be really good for the economy.
 
Oh. Robot is really not in this lounge anymore. That's sad
 
user1804599
Disclaimer: all I know about Trump is that he's a billionaire.
 
Ven
11:07 PM
robot in peace
 
I still want clusters / varying variables in nonius, but I'd have to patch it.
 
@sehe I've never used either, but we're starting to need to benchmark some things here and there. I was curious if there was a reason I should recommend one over the other (aside from the fact that Nonius is written by the esteemed robot and benchmark is from google, which has questionable ideas about C++).
 
@caps I've recently (~2 months ago) seen a pretty broad comparison of c++ benchmarking libs.
 
@sehe Where?
 
11:08 PM
@sehe I couldn't even seem to tag him. Does he still have an SO account?
 
Sure. I think
 
@caps Yes‌​, his latest message was on Jan 24
 
@sehe Thanks.
@ThePhD I didn't know Nonius was that old / benchmark was that young.
 
@caps Google Benchmark started ~ Oct 13 2015
Nonius started Mar 1st 2015
 
@ThePhD Wow. So Chandler's talk about Benchmark was "bleeding edge" for the library.
 
11:14 PM
Basically.
 
@caps The robot lost his interest in C++. He seems to be mostly into girls and bicycle riding now.
 
user1804599
needs more order and discipline in elementary school
 
seriously why fox news
 
@StackedCrooked I can understand that. :)
 
11:17 PM
@Zoidberg discipline? electric chair seems more appropriate,
@caps I wish I could have met him. But unfortunately he didn't make it to the previous unconference. (He lost his wallet, so he didn't have an id and couldn't travel.)
 
Ven
@StackedCrooked Not that many people here actually enjoy C++, hey :)
 
I like C++ but I've been accused of masochism before
 
@Ven I do.
 
Ven
I didn't ask
 
user1804599
It's fascinating how it's so difficult to make bipedal robots run up stairs while humans can learn it in a few years.
 
11:19 PM
@StackedCrooked Oh no, a major scale :(
 
Hm, ..I don't know music theory.
@Morwenn But, yeah, that sucks.
I hate major scales.
 
Seriously, the song is still good.
 
The small ones are much better.
 
user1804599
I think bipedal robots are the future.
 
@StackedCrooked He won't be going to unconference anymore?
I didn't realize "lost interest in C++" also meant "lost interest in loungers"
 
11:21 PM
@caps I hope he does. (He's got a new id lol.)
 
@caps who lost interest in C++
 
Robot?
 
6 mins ago, by StackedCrooked
@caps The robot lost his interest in C++. He seems to be mostly into girls and bicycle riding now.
 
user1804599
@caps That was a joke. You can tell from his face:
 
wot
 
user1804599
11:23 PM
 
And rubik cubes.
 
lel
 
@Zoidberg LOL
 
He's rubikosexual now
 
@caps right.
 
11:24 PM
yeah it's a pity that the robot isn't really around anymore
 
user1804599
Also I recently learned narutomaki was really called narutomaki. I always called it "naruto" because it somewhat resembled the sign on Naruto's headband.
 
@набиячлэвэлиь No worries. I'll wait for him to discover his circumrubicality
 
@Morwenn Alf also liked Kajiura Yuki a lot.
 
@Puppy He's one of a half-dozen people that are why I come to this chat.
 
user1804599
What do you call the place people write Rubik's cube solvers in?
 
user1804599
11:24 PM
Rubik's cubicles.
 
@Puppy I seem to notice a lot of decreased activity. Not too sure about the amount of Discord
 
@caps List them
 
@StackedCrooked I sometimes heard of Alf but I can't say I know who they are.
 
He was a regular between 2010 and 2012-13 I think.
 
user1804599
<cat and other morons>dicsord</cat and other morons>
 
11:25 PM
@sehe The problem is that we can't attract quality new Loungers.
we seem to mostly just get people like Sino.
 
@Puppy yup. Discord non plus
 
@набиячлэвэлиь I'd probably leave someone out. sehe, jerry coffin, sbi, and robot are the ones that immediately come to mind.
I learn from other people here, too, though.
 
Discordia non grata
 
pretty much all the people here that I really want to interact with have been here for 99 years
 
> quality Loungers
 
user1804599
11:26 PM
The only lounger over 90 years old is Pubby and he's been gone for ages.
 
@Morwenn He was very knowledgeable. He had been a moderator for comp.lang.c++.moderated for many years. But he wasn't really good at keeping his cool in lounge discussions.
 
oh ye Pubby mmm
@StackedCrooked RELIGION!
 
oh my god dude atheism for life
 
@StackedCrooked Was he here when LRiO was also there?
 
user1804599
No, LRiO came later.
 
11:27 PM
oooh life, is bigger; is bigger than you and you are not me
 
LRiO came later, but he knew Alf.
 
user1804599
I remember LRiO once accidentally published his home address here.
 
lol
 
user1804599
Alf once got b& on Stack Overflow.
 
user1804599
And he has "cheers and hth." in his name because it kept getting removed from his posts.
 
user1804599
11:29 PM
And he downvotes self-answers.
 
user1804599
Trivial Persuit: Lounge<C++> Edition
 
You're not required to keep your calm when playing.
 
@Morwenn Cheers & hth
@Zoidberg lol he was so frustrated about that
 
user1804599
Imagine he accidentally wrote "cheers & HH" and couldn't remove the Hitler salut from his name for 30 days.
 
11:32 PM
Instaban.
 
user1804599
Ben from Moscow.
 
user1804599
Vlad Voigt.
 
user1804599
 
@StackedCrooked It was just a conversation that came up at work--I think a couple of guys had seem some of the comparisons of the order of magnitude of latency. In any case, for whatever reason, they were talking about what was the best network latency you could hope to get.
 
@sehe :no_bicycles:
 
user1804599
11:41 PM
 
Those Minecraft projects are a bit insane.
Ugh, my error messages are really indecipherable ç____ç
 
@sehe Shitposters moved to Discord. That's probably a win-win
 
I haven't been on discord in a while
I should go check sometime.
 
You should have it open AT ALL TIMES
 
11:50 PM
when you're sleeping too
 
which is the most correctest: "neither X nor Y provide" or "neither X nor Y provides"?
 
:star:
 
@jaggedSpire sleeping not allowed
 
@AndyProwl I suppose that Discord knows when you're asleep. It surely knows when you're awake as well.
Time for dinner :)
IOW Time for Glorious Pad Thai
see y'all later
 
11:54 PM
I want dinner too but it's too late
 
GLOOOOORIOUS, RAAAAAAADIAAANT PAD THAI
 
wait why am I shitposting here. Back to Discord. Cheers
 
@AndyProwl have dessert in dinner form
 
(that already happened twice)
 
@ThePhD you are a PhD after my own heart
 
11:54 PM
@jaggedSpire I thought you didn't have a heart, though. ;;
 
@jaggedSpire Just in case, take one more: <3
 
@ThePhD well it may be blackened and shrivelled and also dead long ago of a MSVC accident, but I do have one
@Morwenn <3
 
@CatPlusPlus I have no clue what that means o.O
 
Whatever it needs to!
 
@AndyProwl Just the shitposters? I'm pretty sure that's not true. Discord made multi-channel easy, increasing the off topic volumes as well as making them more prominent, I guess.
@AndyProwl I was gonna say. You were the only one to bring me back to discord briefly by posting piano pics to me
 
11:59 PM
Today I learned that I am not qualified to handle bleach without supervision.
 
> Until 2007, the most popular encoding was called ASCII.
 
lel
 
hahaha
 

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