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10:00 AM
I hate dumb uses of auto
auto f = some_type{}; is stupid
 
no it's not
let's fight
 
It's too late
 
damn
 
@Rapptz no u
 
it gets dumber when variables are included
e.g. auto f = lol{1, 2};
better pray there isn't an std::initializer_list cockblocking your constructor
 
10:03 AM
what verbibols
 
lol
 
@Rapptz different issue
namely the committee being retarted
 
yeah well it fucks over your consistency
>:O
 
>C++
>consistency
><current year>
 
exactly
 
10:04 AM
more consistency is still better than less consistency
the fact that you can't get full consistency is just a C++ism
 
can't fault that
 
Ell
We will converge eventually
 
we'll all converge on your mom
 
Ell
When we get to c++98v2
 
c++2098
 
Ven
10:05 AM
@Rapptz why? do you want to java it with T foo = T();?
 
I'm gonna be so dead by the time we have modules
 
@Ven We do T foo; in C++.
Just like we do int x; and not auto x = int();
 
Ven
@Rapptz ah, that's what you're fighting against
 
@HubertApplebaum lol I completely overlooked that was submitted by R. Smith, when I first read it my reaction at the time was 'interesting but so radical it has no chance of ever passing or anything close to that'
 
Ven
different one.
 
10:06 AM
now you’ve got me hoping ._.
 
@Rapptz no, you do
 
Yeah I know I do.
 
Ven
@LucDanton R. Smith is known for getting stuff through?
 
Thanks nerds.
You guys can keep using AAA idc
I won't though.
 
10:07 AM
Stay bad
 
This is a herb-free household.
 
I want AA
 
@Rapptz my value-init you savage
 
Almost Auto
 
enjoy your garbage iterators
 
10:07 AM
Almost Always Andy
 
@HubertApplebaum I support this proposal
 
everyone but rapptz does
 
not being able to return noncopyable object that aren't copied is stupid
 
@Ven if he isn’t, he should be
 
mornin'
 
Ven
10:08 AM
@LucDanton another example maybe?
 
The proposal works for things other than AAA fyi
 
by accident
 
I have a minor issue with my account ... I kinda have managed to fuck it up a bit
 
Ven
> The language requires provision of a copy or move constructor for a type even if the programmer and the compiler agree that it will never be called
which is why we have them throw errors. :[[[
 
glvalue stands for garbage lvalue anyway
 
10:09 AM
@Ven no
@HubertApplebaum makes sense
 
I thought it was get laid value. Now I understand
 
@HubertApplebaum I thought it meant "good luck value"
 
@slaphappy you can though
 
@LucDanton how?
 
move
 
10:10 AM
I think he mean nonmovable noncopyable
 
but it's not moved, it's inplaced
 
such as mutices
 
Ven
I seriously can't remember all this lvalue xvalue glvalue rvalue prvalue shit. I know basically what they are, but fuck details
 
l for left r for right
 
x for center
pr for jumping
gl for shooting
 
10:12 AM
@slaphappy like so
 
Ven
@slaphappy you said "not being able to return noncopyable". copy elision works
 
json lib now comes with 300% more compile time errors
 
am glad
I'll wait until dust settles a bit
 
btw that’s how you can do on_scope_exit with no internal state to keep track of whether *this was moved from or not
 
Ven
you'll be dead before it settles completly, tbh
 
10:14 AM
Then I'll update my local copy and bask in the joy of seeing it not compile with VS2013
 
I have to finish it and stuff
I'm not doing anything outlandish though.
choice<N> works in VS2013 right?
 
for overload resolution you mean
 
yes
 
I... think so
 
btw why does gcc keep going after a static_assert is found :'(
 
10:18 AM
zeal
 
I know I can do -Wfatal-error but bleh
@HubertApplebaum is that a yes it works
 
> zeal
zēl
noun
great energy or enthusiasm in pursuit of a cause or an objective.
 
@Rapptz maybe that’s worth a feature-request, maybe not
 
@HubertApplebaum it's also a green-like colour that could be used to signal success.
 
@Rapptz fry.xcf
 
10:23 AM
pls gramps we use .psd
 
mfw when mellow is a color as well
at least preen isn’t
 
lol
I did std::declval<T>() instead of std::declval<T&>() by accident and it broke thiings
 
Jan 22 at 5:49, by Angry Lettuce
Why the & though
@HubertApplebaum this is why
 
begin(std::declval<T>()) fails for C arrays
if you make it std::declval<T&>() it'll be a-ok.
to give a bit more detail
 
@LucDanton I laughed
 
10:29 AM
@Rapptz well that’s convenient
template< class C > auto begin( const C& c ) -> decltype(c.begin());
well done
 
Ven
@Rapptz care to explain why? ;o)
 
there is no T const* begin(T const (&array)[N]); (as it should be)
 
yeah
there's cbegin that builds on it lol
 
@Rapptz that one I can actually forgive
cus you have to go out of your way to delete it
but adding the const C& overload just to break things that’s dumb
how2generic
 
@LucDanton why
 
10:35 AM
Hi.
 
@HubertApplebaum that way it catches mistakes in generic code
for non-generic code you can unary plus your way to victory, as usual
 
On a scale of 0 to writing unit tests, how boring is your day?
 
@LucDanton I get this
@LucDanton I don't get this
@Morwenn very
 
Ven
hi @Morwenn. pretty boring, I'd prefer to write unit tests by a long mile
 
@HubertApplebaum begin usually comes with an end in sight, but if you’re feeding a temporary to begin then that’s not what end will receive, so that’s a red flag
 
10:38 AM
@Ven You're insane.
 
and if we’re dealing with an xvalue instead of a temporary… why?
 
Ven
@Morwenn thanks <3
 
:D
 
Ven
@Morwenn I have to delete code I just wrote. I don't like it. not one bit
 
I like to delete code I wrote. When I realize it's shit months later.
 
Ven
10:39 AM
I wrote it a day ago.
 
Not long enough :/
 
Ven
I came in today "lol we gave the feature to someone else, trash your shit already"
 
@LucDanton can't you add an overload for && I don't know
how2cpp
 
Ven
how2cpp? protip: don't.
 
@HubertApplebaum sorry what was the 'why' referring to? I was saying it’s great that there is no such overload
 
10:41 AM
@Ven Erg. Way to start the day...
 
@LucDanton I understand now what you mean, but why isn't it possible to special case it for temporary arrays
 
special-case what
 
Ven
@Morwenn see, that's why I'd rather be writing unit tests :P
 
I wonder if I should add a constructor for json::value to do canonical_to_json if the type has it.
 
10:42 AM
@HubertApplebaum what special case do you want
 
@Ven Imagine if you had to delete the unit tests you just wrote.
 
Ven
@Morwenn lol
 
nvm it's me being dumb
for once
 
Ven
good one. I'd probably start by setting fire to the rain
 
@HubertApplebaum this hour
ish
 
10:43 AM
So, what are you doing then?
 
praise be to luc
 
Ven
going back to actual coding now
 
Help
Class in 4 hours
Can't sleep
 
Ven
do drugs
 
I would like to take this moment to bikeshed on unimportant & dumb things
 
10:47 AM
Shoot.
Maybe it'll put me to sleep.
 
Ven
@HubertApplebaum go ahead
 
@Ven Where do you live? Can I come?
 
Ven
@Morwenn in paris. sure.
 
Er, no thanks then.
 
also it’s not possible to deprecate the auto begin(const C& c); overload what with resolution rules
 
Ven
10:48 AM
;-)
@Morwenn you wouldn't come to paris, EVEN for drugs? but our drugs are amazing
 
@HubertApplebaum let’s call it the start of another hour
 
It's still related to testing
 
@Ven I only do Marie-Jeanne and you can find it pretty much anywhere.
 
30% de chance de piscine
 
Ven
@LucDanton vrai
 
10:49 AM
increasing to 80% soon
 
Ven
@Morwenn I don't even do marie-jeanne. only alcohol
 
@Ven Well, that's already enough to have problems :p
 
Ven
Well hey, my life sucks, better fill it with some nice drinks
 
@HubertApplebaum you need a 2.45 influx modulation
 
@Ven Drink Sant-Erwann, it's the best beer ever.
 
10:52 AM
@Morwenn how is that pot heads seems to always know how to find pot. It amazes me
 
Let's discuss modern art.
 
Ven
@Morwenn what kind of money do you think I have
 
@thecoshman I don't know. I don't even know how to find pot.
 
@Ven drug money
confirmed druglord
 
Actually I'm pretty sure it's the same question as last week
Alzheimer
 
10:53 AM
@Ven Oh sorry, I forgot beer cost 30€ in Paris.
 
@Morwenn as far as I can tell, you just walk down the street and jokingly shout "I want to buy pot!", they'll tap you latter with a deal
 
Ven
@Morwenn lol no. I'd never pay more than 5e for one
 
I give up
 
@Ven What, how do you do that?
@thecoshman See, you already know how to do.
 
Ven
@Morwenn I know the good places
 
10:55 AM
Or just just have dreads and don't do anything. Pot dealers will be there.
 
@Morwenn :\ I'm to sort of person who just gets offers
 
awesome, VS consistently freezes when hitting a breakpoint
fml
 
use a debugg oh right
 
Ven
@Morwenn they're errywher
 
what the factual uck I hate this
 
10:59 AM
:( I don't want to my types inherit from an abstract base just to make them testable :( fuck this
I'll just not write tests
 
you don't have to
not all of them at least
 
IOW, you have to, for some?
 
for some it's convenient yes, for testability
sometimes there are also other ways to put seams
 
Xeo
test wrapper?
 
11:01 AM
like templates or erasure with I dunno std::function. Just wait for virtual concepts to solve all your problems :D
 
Jan 29 at 6:01, by Luc Danton
@HubertApplebaum you can combine the two techniques to achieve longer compilation times while still paying dispatching costs
called it
 
destroy all cumbuters
 
@AndyProwl Still waiting :(
 
@LucDanton I hate you deep inside
 
@HubertApplebaum you're doing it wrong
 
11:04 AM
all right let's try to think really hard and solve this problem without a debugger
 
@thecoshman probably
 
@AndyProwl logs, logs everywhere
 
Ven
@HubertApplebaum Let's no destroy cucumbers with Valentines so soon.
oh wait you said combuters
 
@HubertApplebaum if I tell you that not testing is wrong, then you can swap to another method knowing it's the right option!
 
I'm out of ideas. VS pls
 
11:06 AM
@thecoshman no
I don't want vcalls
muh performances
 
 
rich vocabulary
 
hm.
design question.
 
@HubertApplebaum ah. Well if it's the vcalls you're concerned with, then templates are your only option. Or not unit-testing those super-performance-critical parts, but they should be a minority. I know you hate minorities but hey.
 
@Rapptz what ever you choose, it's bad
 
11:09 AM
if you have e.g. std::map<some_udt, some_other_udt> how would you do the conversion of some_udt to some valid JSON key?
 
templates are cancer
@Rapptz to_json_key
or to_string
 
just use auto
 
robert not fit in this precise case
 
@HubertApplebaum yes
 
It's not normal to provide e.g. operator std::string() but to_string is weird too.
 
11:11 AM
to_string ain't weird
 
like should I check a free function to_string or a member function?
 
to_robert()
 
I'm leaning towards former.
I don't wanna do both lol
 
make it free and wait for UFCS
 
11:11 AM
@Rapptz accept a functor to do it but of course that begs the question of 'okay but what does the useful default do'
 
@Rapptz depends :P
 
at this point I don’t know; I don’t like to_string though
 
free function to_string has the benefit of working with numbers and the like thanks to std::to_string.
 
that’s all it works with
it doesn’t even work for std::string for your purposes
 
oh yeah, free functions let you get ADL... that is ADL isn't it?
 
11:13 AM
special casing though
 
@thecoshman not for int etc.
 
SpEciAl__cAsi_ng
 
@Rapptz it’s not a benefit then
since you have to special case
 
@LucDanton using std::to_string; and everything's ok.
 
i.e. you could have to_robert that special cases to std::to_string for the appropriate types
 
11:14 AM
@Morwenn careful in the man's plains
 
@Rapptz keep in mind that 'to string' might want to be different from 'to json key'
 
I guess I can do to_json_key but meh
okay.
ty for opinions
 
iow, you fucking bastards make me question everything I've done!
 
typical lounge
 
People still opposed to the French spelling reform that accured 25+ years ago which simplifies things a bit while they're still unable to write properly with the old spelling anyway.
 
11:17 AM
this is why I don't ask questions here
 
@Rapptz accept ops::praise_be_to_niebler into your heart
 
@LucDanton you wish
 
it handles defaults & special cases very well while simultaneously protecting you from ADL and the evil eye
résout tous les problèmes, affections, amour, fidélité, mariage, travail, résultats garantis
 
@HubertApplebaum you love it really
 
envoyez un chèque de 200 € addressé au Prophète et la grâce vous illuminera
 
11:26 AM
I don't know how I'd nieblerise these functions.
 
use the niebler potion
 
I will give it a try though
 
@Rapptz aw don’t be misled
 
hm?
 
yay for RDP chains :D
 
11:29 AM
I do the ops dance to delineate the 'overload at a distance' aspect of generic programming
 
I mean I still need to detect if the function exists no?
 
but also to handle defaults and refactored bits and things, which seemed relevant here
@Rapptz kinda?
 
e.g. if to_json_key exists use it otherwise do these default cases
static assert otherwise
 
@Rapptz I never do that, but that’s an implementation detail anyway
@Rapptz you have to have your defaults somewhere, is my point
 
yeah
the niebler way is a nice way of organising it I will give you that
 
11:33 AM
Rapptz has been assimilated
 
it’s nice to have a plan/be consistent, too, compared to how haphazardly I used to do it ('this one will use lots of EnableIf!', 'that one will use partial spec overloads!', 'and I’d better leave a specialization hook here, just in case')
@Rapptz I’m fairly sure I mostly do ranking for member vs. non-member and some particular forms of defaulting (e.g. cbegin deferring to begin(as_const(arg))) actually
partial spec and regular overloading go a long way
 
that requires trust in overload resolution that I do not have lol
maybe when I feel more confident with it
resolution is one of few things that I'm overall meh in C++
 
well if it makes you feel better I don’t consider myself familiar with the rules
I avoid ranking if I can help it because it has a certain procedural aspect to it that just seems out of place here
 
> Learn to master overload resolution in two weeks.
 
I like ranking because I know exactly what happens
 
11:40 AM
At first I wrote my testsuite to mitigate my lack of trust in overload resolution too. And that was a good idea.
Ranking?
 
choice<N>
is what I'm referring to
 
@Rapptz I have to admit I have my own basket in which I put my trust, and that’s partial spec overloads
 
Oh.
 
i.e. I like auto foo(tuple<A, B, C>…); because I, too, convince myself I know exactly what happens (i.e. tuples end here)
it’s like typing a m a t c h for types
 
I don't get it
 
11:46 AM
me either
 
Xeo
@LucDanton And then some foo(T&&) comes along and craps in your basket :D
 
@Xeo can’t be found
@Xeo in the event it can be found (e.g. ADL on template parameters, always a riot) those are actually still not preferred to partial spec overloads
 
Xeo
Well, depends on what the parameter type exactly is, I guess. It's a bit like class(class const&) vs class(T&&)
Also, "partial spec overload" sounds so weird.
 
Pass everything by value and drop every const, volatile or reference qualifiers. Yoour code will be simpler.
 
I do a lot of Unqualified<T> noise
 
11:54 AM
Unqualified<T>&& :D
 
why can't gcc handle the delete o.o
 
@Rapptz it erroneously considers it is used on the first use site, without even an instantiation
it’s filed dw
 
ew
 
@Xeo yeah
 
11:58 AM
I just noticed
you don't provide a ctor
that wouldn't compile in clang land
or did that change
 
a constructor to what
 
Xeo
@LucDanton hm
 
the struct
clang used to shit all over me because I didn't have constexpr something() {}
 
@Rapptz it’s just a clan away to test
 
it compiles lol
damn compiler can't make up its mind
 

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