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11:02 AM
@AlfPSteinbach Ugh
@AlfPSteinbach What I wonder most about is how you know about that?
 
@StackedCrooked probably from discussing things with knowledgeable people. i think this may be the issue i recall. to do things correctly, apparently one must know that one is dealing with Turkish.
 
@AlfPSteinbach nasty
I wouldn't want to spend days writing workaround code for oddities like this..
 
11:27 AM
Any ones feels like testing this Windows build? I want to make sure there are not dependencies to my machine.
 
@StackedCrooked it seems to run ok, but bear in mind that i have visual c++ express 10.0 as well an older visual studio professional installed.
@StackedCrooked there is (apparently) a zero size file called "x.bmp"
 
@AlfPSteinbach How did you find that out?
 
@StackedCrooked huh, what?
 
@AlfPSteinbach Did it show an error message or something?
 
nope
it just rained down those tetris block thingies
 
11:40 AM
@AlfPSteinbach I mean where did you see the zero size file
 
after unzipping archive
 
Ok, thanks :)
 
12:01 PM
According to dependency walker there seem to be two dependencies to vc runtime:
`c:\windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.4940_none_50916076bcb9a742\MSVCP90.DLL`
`c:\windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.4940_none_50916076bcb9a742\MSVCR90.DLL`
But I don't care much about that now :D
 
@TonyTheLion what's up?
 
@MrAnubis @TonyTheLion is probably busy having sex.
 
lol
 
He'll come back when it's over.
 
12:10 PM
or busy watching people have sex :)
 
@LewsTherin For science, of course.
 
@StackedCrooked xD it's all in the name of science ha. Only if that excuse worked lol
 
Jungle cats like watching porn or sex?
 
Do you think that applications should self-update silently like Google Chrome does. Or do you prefer to be notified and decide yourself when to update?
 
@StackedCrooked I prefer to be notified..
@MrAnubis like watching wild porn and having wild sex
 
12:13 PM
@LewsTherin I don't know lately I've been getting so many notifications that it hinders me from getting on with my work.
 
@StackedCrooked although it tends to be annoying
 
@LewsTherin yes the very same :)
 
@StackedCrooked yeah I disabled windows update for the very reason. But Chrome never notifies me of anything.. curious
@MrAnubis lol you are part cat yourself?
 
@LewsTherin :D I am Mr.Anubis :)
 
I once implemented a silent update mechanism in an Internet Explorer toolbar plugin. I wanted to be able to quickly act when it turned out that there was a serious bug in the plugin (because if my plugin crashed, it would take down IE as well).
 
12:16 PM
@StackedCrooked wow what did you use for that?
I mean what language did you use to implement it
 
@LewsTherin Actually it was pretty simple, despite the enormous security limitations that Vista introduced. I did a call to a webservice to find out if a new plugin was available. If yes then I downloaded the DLL and placed it in the same directory as the old DLL. Then I could call the RegisterDLL function to register the new DLL and the job was done.
@LewsTherin C++ using COM and WinAPI.
 
That sounds hard to me lol
 
It was HELL.
But I only partially blame Microsoft. I made the big mistake to try to figure out COM on-the-go. I should have sat down and read until I understood the basics properly.
 
I thought you said "it was pretty simple"
@StackedCrooked ah
 
@LewsTherin the auto-update mechanism was pretty simple. I'm talking about the toolbar application itself.
 
12:21 PM
@StackedCrooked Oh right. Why did you use IE? Why not Chrome or FF
 
@LewsTherin It was my job. Later I got to do the Firefox version. (The application was called "Netlog Toolbar".)
 
I'm not having sex, I wish I was however :P
 
After I left that job the application was removed from the download page a few months later. Apparently they had problems maintaining it.
 
@StackedCrooked Oh wow..danng. I'd never be able to do something like that...
mmn...how come? It wasn't well documented, code is too big?
 
@LewsTherin It was a fragile application to begin with. It used the website's cookies to automatically log itself in as the user that was currently logged in on the website. (So that the toolbar always reflected the state of the cookies.) However, sometimes the webdevs changed the cookie code causing my Toolbar app to crash.
That's probably what happend.
And probably the release of IE8 was also a problem.
 
12:25 PM
I don't suppose there's a way to get the current terminal's file descriptor so I can use it with termios.h...?
 
@LewsTherin And the MAIN reason was that there were only 2 desktop developers in the company who knew C++. And both of us were gone! (That was not a clever move.)
 
@Mr.Lion you awake?
 
@StackedCrooked I hate developing websites and the main culprit was IE. Wow, was that Company crap or something.. why did you guys leave?
 
@LewsTherin In my latest evaluation meeting they said they were happy with my performance. And they asked me if I could see myself evolving to become a webdev. I answered that web development is not really my thing and that I'd prefer to stay a desktop developer. A week later I was fired along with 5 other people. Apparently they only chance to stay was to become a webdev.
The other guy was working on an iPhone app and they didn't want to let him go just yet. He left the company himself two months later or so.
So there were no desktop developers anymore, and all desktop tools on that site are now no longer supported.
For example.
 
Jesus that's terrible. Just like that? Man, you just made me scared lol
 
12:32 PM
Yep, I felt really bad, because I actually loved that job extremely much.
@LewsTherin What exactly did you find scary? :P
 
@StackedCrooked It appears the IT workers in industry are done away with easily...
 
It was a volatile company. And it was in the middle of the financial crisis a few years back when many people were getting fired.
 
I guess people still are. The IT industry isn't as stable as many people think.. It is funny how everyone keeps applying to a CS degree.. ugh
 
As a programmer you can find a new job quickly. Certainly compared with other industries.
 
@StackedCrooked not been my experience
:(
 
12:41 PM
lol
FUCK
@TonyTheLion well you probably need a bloody "degree"
 
@TonyTheLion The most difficult part is probably the beginning when don't have a lot of work experience to show on your resume.
Ah, not having a degree definitely makes it much harder.
 
@LewsTherin yea I know, it's bloody depressing
@StackedCrooked true
 
I have a bachelors degree in applied informatics. It was definitely not a high quality education. But it
is still an important piece of paper.
 
Yeah degrees are the shit right now.. But too many people have them. I guess it's a MSc. or something. But it increases your chances. @TonyTheLion if it was America you'd probably be employed by now..
 
@LewsTherin yea, but I can't even go work in the US without a degree, unless I have 13 years of experience
meh :(
 
12:47 PM
@TonyTheLion 13yrs? Bloody ashes! What about graduate jobs? Well I guess they want you to be a graduate for that. wow.
Can you find an intern pos
 
1:06 PM
@TonyTheLion It's hard for me to find a good job as a programmer because I don't have a CS degree. A degree is given more importance than talent.
2
 
lol yes
 
1:28 PM
Anyone here on Linux? Feel free to try this out and let me know it you had any problems running it. (It was built on a 64-bit Ubuntu.)
That's kind of a typical problem when making deploy builds. You know that they work on your own computer but you're not entirely sure if it will work on another person's.
 
Java
;)
 
I think experienced Java developers would remain silent now.
Because write-once-run-everywhere isn't always the case.
 
Really?
how come.....?
 
The most basic issue can be that it has dependencies to certain jars that are not available on the user's system.
And of course, when using a native extension, then your app will only run on the platforms that are supported by that native extension.
 
what do you mean by native
local to the hardware?
 
1:39 PM
When you want to use a library that is written in C or C++.
You can load that library from Java. But this requires that binaries for this library exist on all systems that you want to run it on.
 
Em...no idea. But I guess I'll find out what you mean one day....
 
Enlightenment is near.
 
I'm a little tired and I'm starting to say random stuff.
 
lol gotcha ;)
 
1:52 PM
Speaking of random stuff.
 
Looking for a good seed?
 
I think I'm ready to start coding again.
 
What are you going to code?
I finally made big move and uploaded my little Tetris for Windows, Linux and Mac. Chances are that it won't work on other people's computer though, lol.
 
I'm continuing my BitTorrent client.
 
1:57 PM
I've been slacking off for almost a month now.
 
I know the feeling.
Are the sources private?
 
No, they're up there on bitbucket.
I'll link you up if you want.
 
I'd like to have a look.
 
I had barely started experimenting with a few designs.
 
You definitely don't seem easily intimidated by templates.
 
2:10 PM
Nothing scares me!
(Except arthropods and cephalopods, maybe)
 
Is that boost unit testing library in bencode.cpp?
 
It's Catch.
 
Never heard of it.
O right, I remember it briefly.
 
I tried, and I'm liking it so far. I haven't tried other C++ testing frameworks yet.
 
I have used CppUnit and don't recommend it.
 
2:15 PM
That's one of those Java-style frameworks, right?
 
At work we've been using googletest for almost a year now and I think it's quite good.
@RMartinhoFernandes yeah, it's port.
 
Hm, never liked those.
 
When I was looking for a testing C++ framework all of them except for googletest had been inactive for years.
googletest is used for Google Chrome, so that gave some confidence that it's alive
Catch seems to provide similar features. Catch has the advantage that it's header only though.
 
Yeah, that's neat. But you won't have all that UI stuff that GoogleTest gives (not sure if you use it)
 
I don't know if googletest has a UI.
 
2:20 PM
@StackedCrooked There's the Boost Test Framework.
 
Says so on the front page.
 
@LucDanton I look at that too.
@RMartinhoFernandes Ok.
@RMartinhoFernandes probably because I don't need it I overlooked it.
It's even an independent addon.
 
Hi
 
Great, is starting to get a fair number of 'Where can I learn about C++11'/'What book about C++11'/'TELL ME EVERYTHING YOU KNOW' questions.
 
By the way, where can I learn about C++11 ?
(sorry)
Can C++11 make my wife come back ?
 
2:30 PM
I don't think so. And C++ doesn't have boobs.
 
#include <boobs>
Now it does. :)
 
@ereOn I started with the wikipedia page. It has a nice rundown of the features.
 
Well, I was kidding ;)
But thanks for the advice anyway ^^
I can't use it at work for now unfortunately
 
Bjarne's page is totally work-related.
Either that FAQ has been updated or my memory is playing tricks. Either way guess I've found something to read.
 
@LucDanton Nice link. Thanks for sharing.
 
2:34 PM
When I read it it was a bit outdated.
 
I feel hesitant to use the right-angle brackets. It's such an ingrained habit to add a the extra space there.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Seems like it's been updated to mention that C++11 has been published but nothing beyond that.
 
The typename... also looks very odd to me.
 
@StackedCrooked Can I assume your silence means you didn't find any massive mistakes in my code during your cursory glance at it?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes What's the appeal with CATCH again? Automatic generation of messages?
 
2:38 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I have it open in a QtCreator project. I'm a bit overwhelmed by the many templates.
 
@LucDanton It's the only one I tried so far.
 
I'll start bashing your code once I see through the abstractions.
 
$ grep 'template<' include/ src/ -R | wc -l
473
 
That too much?
I doubt I have that many in my code.
 
2:40 PM
No idea, I'm trying to think of a good measure to relate that.
 
typedef long long int bigint; that's most likely a signed int64 right?
 
$ grep 'struct|class' include/ src/ -RE | wc -l
227
 
@StackedCrooked The specs say it has arbitrary size, but I'm not doing it.
I should change it to std::intmax_t though.
 
Those numbers are meaningless. For instance I define almost everything out of line, so template member definitions start with template<.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes As for GCC it's 64 bit both on 32 and 64 bit platforms.
 
2:42 PM
Yeah, that's big enough for everything in the protocol.
It only uses 32-bit integers between peers, but for some reason the torrent files are allowed to have arbitrary size integers.
 
The messages in message.hpp are they of fixed length, or can the length be variable?
 
There are both kinds.
In fact, I think I only use templates in the messages, and only three or four.
 
Are you using an approach similar to what was reviewed?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I see that now.
 
@LucDanton No, I changed it radically.
I'm using inheritance now.
 
2:52 PM
std::array is interesting.
 
Oh noes, runtime inheritance
 
template<unsigned n>
struct Buffer {
    enum {
        length = n
    };
    char data[n];
};
^ I used this as a workaround. But arrays is better.
 
Soon you'll be making AbstractSingletonProxyFactoryBeanAdapters
4
 
Do you know if instance objects in Python get some kind of unique id's ?
 
2:53 PM
@DeadMG No, really, inheritance here is better than templates.
@LucDanton: Now I only use the templates for: a trait to distinguish messages with payload from the others; a template that can implement all no-payload messages; and a base class for all non-keepalive messages.
 
Even I have been known to use inheritance on occasion
 
Runtime inheritance for the exceptions is quite acceptable. But I think that's not what you meant/
 
My issue was what would I pick for the return type of T read_message(socket);?
 
Does C++11 also have the noncopyable base class?
 
Templates would not help. I can only know the type at runtime.
@StackedCrooked You can do that in two-lines now.
T(T const&) = delete; T& operator=(T const&) = delete;
 
2:55 PM
In C++03 it was also in two lines.
 
Er. You're right.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes IIRC one of the conclusion from the review is that static polymorphism would make sense if you'd use a set of overloaded functions to create the messages (make_message(arg0, ... argN)). Presumably that doesn't exactly work for network related stuff as the type of the message is only available at runtime.
Too slow to type :(
 
Yeah, some types can be only known at runtime
 
@RMartinhoFernandes do you happen to have a link to documentation for the message types?
 
I used inheritance for my AST types
 
2:59 PM
@StackedCrooked Official: bittorrent.org/beps/…; unofficial (preferred, because the official is a bit confusing and written in a weird style): wiki.theory.org/BitTorrentSpecification#Messages
 
Cool, thanks.
 
A bittorrent client? Aren't there like 1000000000000000 of those already?
 
Possibly.
Aren't there like 1000000000000000 programming languages already?
:P
 
Heh
Not really the same thing
Hate being sick :(
 
If a message has a fixed size then I would represent it as a POD. The POD object can be initalized using memcopy (or the C++ alternative). This means the POD will have network byte order. You can then define inline getters that allow you to get the fields in host byte order.
Just a suggestion.
 
3:04 PM
@StackedCrooked But then you cannot use inheritance.
 
Indeed.
 
I need polymorphism.
 
Ok then.
 
The payload can be a POD though, not that's a big feature.
Given there's going to be several messages it'd make more sense to have one site that knows how to marshall data to and from the network rather than have each message type know how to handle its payload though.
 
@ereOn C++11 only has move semantics, but comeback semantics have already been approved for the next C++ standard, among other things.
 
3:08 PM
lol
 
@FredOverflow Haha ! :p
 
auto q = std::move(p); std::comeback(p);?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes does it build?
 
3:11 PM
@LucDanton It has been updated recently indeed:
> Modified October 6, 2011
 
@StackedCrooked You probably need my "utility library".
And cpp-netlib.
 
> Before its official ratification, we called the upcoming standard C++0x. I have not had the time to update the name consistently, sorry, and anyway I like the name C++0x :-). The name "C++0x" is a relict of the days where I and others, hoped for a C++08 or C++09. Think of 'x' as hexadecimal (i.e., C++0B == C++11).
Hey, maybe Bjarne should maintain our video list now? :)
> (To people who know me this is a proof that this really is an FAQ, rather than a series of my own favorite questions; I'm not a fan of videos on technical topics - I find the video distracting and the verbal format too likely to contain minor technical errors).
interesting
 
@LucDanton Hmm, that might make it easier to allow for extensions. Extensions that add new messages only need to register handlers for their message types with this marshaller, and everything works.
 
Admittedly last time I did network stuff that's precisely what I used, a function to pass the received bits, and a way to specify the required format ("I want an int, a double, then a string").
And since it was in C that was a varargs function. Fun times.
 
3:20 PM
I think one advantage for POD's is that can use sizeof() instead of packet_length().
 
So actually with that system you do not need to register anything, you just put in your members what you want (from the specs I guess) like an int, a double, then a whatever array, and fill those up at construction time.
 
@StackedCrooked What about padding?
Most message sizes are odd numbers. I bet sizeof() will give me different values.
 
You mean that message lengths aren't always aligened?
OK.
 
Aligned to what anyway? There's no one alignment to rule them all.
 
That's be cause the header is 5 bytes (or 1 byte if you discount the length prefix).
 
Als
3:23 PM
Hooollllllllaaaaaaaa
 
It seems to me that the message handling is going to be the place where most CPU cycles will end up (Correct me if I'm wrong.) So the runtime inheritance could cause much overhead here.
 
Als
Guys! I am happy!
 
@StackedCrooked I'm not sure if CPU will be a bottleneck. This thing will have networking and disk access all over the place.
But it could turn out to be.
I'm waiting until I have more code to see.
I don't mind scratching and rewriting things.
@Als Hi, what's up?
 
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: I won! Finally I won!
 
Won what? NetHack?
I did. Once.
 
Als
3:26 PM
They got him!
Foo Bah, New York, NY
1 1 6 29
 
The downvoter?
 
Als
@StackedCrooked: Yes
 
Good.
 
Als
And I have a request to make,Guys please upvote my last comment under the Q here..meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/108538/…
 
3:28 PM
@Als they repped him zero , lol
 
That's what happens with suspensions.
It's temporary.
 
Als
@MrAnubis: Its temporary
the rep gets restored when ban period ends.
 
* Your account will be locked at 1 reputation.
* Your user page will have a visual indication that you are in timed suspension, and for how long.
* You will be unable to vote, ask, answer, or comment.
 
@Als that guy is fucking zodiac downvoter lol
 
explicit operator bool() const;
^ What does explicit mean here?
 
3:30 PM
It means the conversion cannot happen implicitly.
 
Als
@MrAnubis: A few days ago, only I was saying it, now its proved.
 
@StackedCrooked That single line makes the safe bool idiom obsolete.
 
Als
@StackedCrooked: That is C++11 right?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes makes sense. @Als I think so.
 
3:31 PM
Plug:
8
A: Conversion function for error checking considered good?

R. Martinho FernandesIn C++03, you need to use the safe bool idiom to avoid evil things: int x = my_object; // this works In C++11 you can use an explicit conversion: explicit operator bool() const { return is_valid; } This way you need to be explicit about the conversion to bool, so you can no longer do crazy ...

 
Als
Yess, explicit in C++03 was limited to constructors I think
 
Vote me up.
 
Als
haha repwhore!
 
lol
 
Good, it's at badge level now :)
 
3:33 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes did my homework :D
my beer?
 
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: Didn't you mean that single line prevents safe bool from being obsolete?
 
What homework? What beer?
 
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: the presence of explicit keyword I meant
 
@RMartinhoFernandes upvote :)
 
@Als No, I mean that with that line (explicit operator bool) you don't need all those safe bool shenanigans anymore.
 
Als
3:34 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes: Yup, It sounded other way round if u read it again
 
AMD FX 8150 is out , looks awesome
 
No idea what that is.
 
Als
psst pst @MrAnubis:
9 mins ago, by Als
And I have a request to make,Guys please upvote my last comment under the Q here..http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/108538/shouldnt-anonymous-serial-downvoters-be-banned-from-so/
 
lmfao
 
3:39 PM
@Als that essay of comments is growing like hell on first answer and question :D
 
@LewsTherin What happened?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Nothing, just thought it funny that @Als accused you of being a repwhore :P
 
Als
@MrAnubis: Yes, there were 2 Mods there,who instead of acting police were acting like defence attorneys
 
lol
 
I don't care much about rep now. I want badges.
 
3:40 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes you ever messed about with Java Swing?
 
Als
@LewsTherin: Why you think it's funny?
 
btw, I have 147rep now lol
@Als you want us to upvote your post ;)
 
I once had to help a friend that had one big 2kloc file of Swing shit.
 
@Als he want you edit your message for @RMartinhoFernandes a repwhore to badgewhore?
 
Other than that, no, I've managed to stay far from it.
 
3:42 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes 2kloc?
 
@LewsTherin 2000 lines of code.
 
0_o
 
Als
@LewsTherin: Did you even read the context of what I asked to upvote?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Ah I see wow
@Als Yes.
@RMartinhoFernandes but you are familiar with the basics? Contentpanes and stuff
 
For any Java assignment in college, someone else in my group always wanted to get the interface. I never argued against it. I much prefer dealing with multithreaded code or databases than with UIs.
 
3:43 PM
java swing is for GUI?
 
Als
@LewsTherin: Still you find it funny, I find it strange
 
@MrAnubis yeah
 
@LewsTherin No, I don't really know a thing about it.
 
@Als Yes because you want it upvoted, isn't that the same as seeking rep?
 
Als
@LewsTherin: Are you insane or something?
 
3:44 PM
Comments don't generate rep.
 
@ToAllRoom tell me what is largest program you wrote and how many line it contained?
 
Als
I mean truly
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Ah no problemo. Need a JSwing book or something..they're all crap
 
I don't usually measure the size of my code.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh didn't know that.. my bad
 
3:45 PM
Just checked, my largest source file has 512 lines. I just trimmed it down though.
 
@Als Shut up, you twat. Ugh.
 
Obviously, if there's a source file so big that the IDE starts dragging itself when you scroll, I look at the line count.
 
Als
@LewsTherin: You are misinformed about how things work, and then you make bad judgements/comments based on that and then you call me a twat?
 
Is the size of a program, relative to how good a program is?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes did this happen with you earlier?
 
3:47 PM
@LewsTherin Smaller codebases can be easier to maintain.
 
@Als You're making a big deal out of it. I made a mistake, right I'M SORRY. Will that appease you?
 
@MrAnubis It happened to a friend of mine.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah true..
 
Granted, the IDE was crappy too.
 
Als
@LewsTherin: If you be a lil polite i would have settle for it.
 
3:48 PM
Guys, calm down.
Nothing happened.
 
@Als Your problem, not mine.
Damn, I have a bad headache. Does Java do this to one? :(
 
@LewsTherin stop watching pron for whole night , it will go :D
 
@MrAnubis If only Java was pron! xD
 
Why are you talking about District 9 again?
 
Als
@LewsTherin: You dragged me to it really, so if you make a bad judgement accept it and move on, I asked if you are insane before you told @RMartinhoFernandes you didnt knew about comments not generating rep,but u replied back saying "twat" which yes I find rude.
You being here for so long, its surprising that you didnt knew about comments dont have re.
 
3:52 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, let's talk about DirectX 9 instead!
 
Is "twat" that offensive in both American and British English?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes haha
 
What's so funny?
 
Als
And yes for the record I dont make issues of small things, I swear and get swears from people here all the time, but you made it look like you meant it, when clearly I did nothing offensive.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Is the meaning different in the 2?
 
I thought twat meant pussy
and i don't mean a kitten
 
lol
There are other meanings
 
Acronym for The War Against Terrorism
that is awesome!
 
It's my understanding that 'twat' works as punctuation in some parts of the English speaking world. (Much like 'cunt' does, too.) Since I don't know where those parts are or where anyone is from I'd refrain from using it.
 
Als
@LucDanton: Appreciate your thoughfulness, for the record you are never off the line.
 
3:57 PM
@Als I think you mean out of line :)
 
Or "off the hook".
 
@RMartinhoFernandes really? xD
 
Als
Okay Language Nazis :P
I meant that yes
 

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