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9:00 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit, could you please ping me when you start to discuss the poll tomorrow?
 
user1804599
Integral constants are very important.
 
Ell
@DeadMG weaker as in easier?
 
@Jefffrey no
 
well, obviously the Google exam is aimed at graduates and the Oxford interview is aimed at pre-graduates
 
-10°C, three insane pointers and a setter, awesome skiing!
 
Ell
9:03 PM
Ahh yes of course
 
@thecoshman I don't even listen to those that have < 10K rep
inferior people
(I'm kidding)
 
:'(
 
user1804599
@JohanLarsson I think I heard that before.
 
oh wait... that's right, don't care :P
 
@Jefffrey: "When/how to use X programming language feature" is "opinion based"? Yeesh, ridiculous. — Ed S. 28 secs ago
 
9:06 PM
@rightfold hopefully I will write it every night for three months now.
 
Opinions, ladies?
 
I don't think it's opinion based.
 
@Jefffrey I kinda understand you, but it's a valid question
 
I don't think it's a good question, though.
 
user1804599
It’s opinion-biased.
 
9:09 PM
Oh, well. I must be mistaken then.
 
ah wait, it's not decltype(e) y = e? then it's a bad question and opinion-based
 
ahahaha
1
A: When should I use decltype(x) to declare the type of a variable?

R. Martinho FernandesWhen you want y to always have whatever the declared type of x is.

best answer
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
> #include <memory>
> std::unique_ptr<int>
std::unique_ptr<int, std::default_delete<int> >
 
opinion-baized
@rightfold wut?
 
user1804599
9:14 PM
@sehe You enter type names and it shows them.
 
oh aha
 
@Jefffrey It boils down to "you should use feature X when you need the feature that feature X provides", which is why I think the question is poor.
 
I like the trolling tone of it
 
@Jefffrey FWIW I'd imagine the question read "what is the difference between decltype(x) y = expr; and auto y = expr;" if that works better for you?
 
@Flexo Reading it in a different way from what the author intended it to be, doesn't make it a good question.
 
9:19 PM
@Flexo nope, because it should be decltype(expr), not x
 
Eww, QueryPerformanceCounter uses out params. FFS
 
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes Use indirection to solve the problem!
 
How could QPC fail?
Or better, should I care about the bool it returns?
 
It fails when there's no counter available iirc
 
user1804599
Oh wait.
 
9:22 PM
That never happens though
 
> Like a great many people, I have to interface with other stuff, and in order to do so I have to have my code byte-aligned
Woah, really?
GTFO
> Everybody out there who has to deal with microcontrollers is nodding their head right now, trust me.
 
user1804599
My code is always byte-aligned.
 
Ha, no.
Only the dumb ones like you are.
> The problem is that QueryPerformanceFrequency doesn't seem to cater for this alignment oddity, and it cannot cope with accessing a variable which isn't quadword aligned.
The problem is that you don't know how to program in the language you are using.
 
9:26 PM
@Borgleader lol
 
I upvoted that question because it is seemed unique
 
user1804599
@Borgleader I like the question.
 
that's epic failure
Also. Java.
 
I like it too. But it shouldn't be on SO.
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow cool uncle bob
 
9:28 PM
I'll watch Jon Skeet instead.
 
@FredOverflow Moar echo.
 
user1804599
Skon Jeet.
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow cool quantum mechanics demonstration.
 
MSDN says that QPC is in "Winbase.h (include Windows.h)"
Should I include winbase.h or windows.h?
 
windows.h
 
9:31 PM
And what are all the magic macros to not pollute the macro namespace with shit like min and max?
 
user1804599
You should include Winbase.h, because the documentations says you should include Windows.h.
 
NOMINMAX
 
user1804599
Or maybe stdio.h.
 
@CatPlusPlus Thanks.
 
WIN32_LEAN_AND_MEAN?
 
9:32 PM
No, that doesn't stop min/max
19
A: How to tame the Windows headers (useful defines)?

Cat Plus PlusThe most commonly used is probably WIN32_LEAN_AND_MEAN - it disables rarely used parts of the API. You can find more on MSDN's Using the Windows Headers. I remembered wrong about MSDN listing those defines, so here's list from windows.h: /* If defined, the following flags inhibit definition *...

 
So horrible.
 
lol yeah
 
WIN32_MEDIUM_RARE
 
no way to increase playback speed using vimeo right?
 
user1804599
No.
 
9:36 PM
4
Q: Conflict between a namespace and a define

Bill KotsiasI have this serious problem. I have an enumeration within 2 namespaces like this : namespace FANLib { namespace ERROR { enum TYPE { /// FSL error codes FSL_PARSER_FILE_IERROR,... and somewhere else in my code, I use it like this : FANLib::Log::internalLog(FSLParser::FILE_IERROR, file_i...

lol
all caps namespace
 
The performance counter is strictly increasing, right?
 
are you using QPC on MSVC only?
 
@MohammadAliBaydoun WIN32_MEDIUM_RAPE
 
9:40 PM
i fell asleep at 5pm, and now i'm up already at 10pm!
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb Apparently this is star worthy, so here you go
 
I went to sleep at 10am
 
@sehe What can make rape medium? C:
 
Many things. Let me search
 
please can we ask them to allow chat message templates?
 
9:40 PM
I fell asleep at 6 AM.
 
i would do welcome<guy>();
:D
 
The PHP room has those.
 
that's mean
 
that's lean
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yep
 
9:42 PM
Ah, fuck it, I'll switch to boost.chrono.
They use QPC for the normal clocks already.
 
What's wrong with MSVC's <chrono>?
Is it that bad?
 
@rubenvb Last time I checked they all "appeared" to have <regex>, but it was utterly broken. Now, I haven't included libc++ there. Also, this is quite widespread knowledge, so I'm pretty sure I can't be far off. Then again, perhaps recent versions all of a sudden came up with the goods, but chances are the OP isn't using them, so the fair warning stands. — sehe 22 secs ago
 
It's probably broken
 
@Rapptz 1) Clocks have 1ms resolution, 2) durations were never properly tested and are broken in a way that you can only workaround by effectively reimplementing large parts of it.
 
0
Q: Manage access-permission to my posts on Stack Overflow

barak manosProbably a duplicate, but I haven't been able to find an answer anywhere else, so will give it a try: Is it possible to define access-permission to my posts on Stack Overflow? To be more specific, I would like to be able to restrict certain users from viewing and/or replying to my questions, an...

^^ lol
 
9:44 PM
@rubenvb Would have appreciated an upvote with that :/ (or did you start reading at the bottom - lol) ^^
 
So yes, it is that bad.
Big fat seal of "avoid if you can" from me.
 
:s lame
@sehe libstdc++ will have <regex> in 4.9.0 but everyone else already has it.
 
@Mysticial lol indeed
 
@Rapptz lol. So, boost/regex.hpp it is, for most many people
 
no?
MSVC and libc++ are widely used aren't they?
 
9:47 PM
libc++ certainly not.
MSVC is but ISTR that their regex is little better than anyone else's
 
1m resolution sounds fine
 
are they? In my universe, if MSVC is used, chances are project must be crossplatform
 
@sehe Only for the people insane enough or unlucky enough to be stuck with libstdc++...
 
Here comes Griwes with his libc++ superiority.
3
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb 1 min resolution? fine!? you must be trolling
 
9:48 PM
Oh you're one of those.
Mutant horses again.
 
@Borgleader 1ms
 
@Rapptz s/libc++/LLVM toolchain/
 
lol
LLVM isn't really a toolchain.
 
what does the lib do if you sleep for lower than 1ms ?
will it do a busy loop ?
 
Seriously, I don't think I will ever come back to GCC for my personal thingies.
 
9:49 PM
It'll sleep for 1ms most likely
 
@DeadMG LLVM toolchain, not "llvm, the toolchain".
 
No one cares. You take care of your mutant horse. Just don't torture it.
 
Not like you get hard real-time guarantees with this crap
 
yes, I know.
 
@DeadMG The same way as "GNU toolchain" is a thing.
 
9:49 PM
it's still not really a toolchain.
 
@Griwes what's the relevance of that statement for any relevant statistic?
 
Even though GNU is not a toolchain.
 
LLVM depends on shitloads of GNU or external tools to make it work
 
Does LLVM have a linker yet?
 
@sehe That was in response to the message from @Rapptz (that I also starred).
 
9:50 PM
Crappy grammar there w/e
 
@CatPlusPlus They are working on it.
 
@DeadMG Sssh, don't ruin his fantasy.
 
So what's in "LLVM toolchain"
Clang and...
 
@Griwes Thanks for checking out of the conversation. Maybe next time, consider not checking in
 
And its assembler that clang can use.
 
9:51 PM
clang format and the static analyser?
those are the only things I know under clang/tools
 
Will the Windows Snapshot Builds he able to deal with MSVC's RTTI stuff before GN2014?
 
LLVM only needs a linker then it is a toolchain
 
@sehe I thought this was a room for talking about various things. Apparently it's only a room for discussing what sehe wants to discuss at a given time.
Good to know.
 
low stoop much?
 
@Griwes wut...
 
9:52 PM
@Borgleader Don't know. 199995 can't parse type_traits for 2013 and can't mangle RTTI for 2012 at the very least.
 
on a change of topic
 
GN2013 was way too early to announce it.
 
Chef is p awesome
 
I want gcc 4.9.0
 
@Griwes You basically hijacked my genuine discussion about std::regex to do more of a LLVM is great rant. Thank you (don't blame others, you did it)
 
9:53 PM
to be honest
the whole "No Unicode" thing definitely makes me feel like all the Standard textual tools are practically unusable.
and I don't feel any different about <regex>.
 
@sehe I just included a remark that staying with GCC is insane vOv
 
I can't use std::regex even if it was implemented
 
@sehe Let it go. Maybe GCC did bad things to him when he was a kid.
 
Likely
 
GCC must've duplicated some OS features
 
9:54 PM
I was pretty sure that you could've just continued the discussion vOv
 
@Griwes How about because Clang barely works on many platforms, and libc++/llvm linker/etc not at all?
oh
I need to write up a reply to that N3888 guy.
 
lol I can't even get Clang to work on windows and I've tried like 12 times :s
I suck at it I guess
 
@DeadMG The "2d graphics proposal doesn't suck" guy?
 
@Rapptz I use it on Windows all the time.
@Borgleader Yeah.
 
so what exactly is <graphics>?
is it just image manip?
 
Ell
9:56 PM
It's cairo
 
Vector drawing
 
Ninja is a bit messed up on Windows :(
 
It's Cairo, so let's see what Cairo does:
> The cairo API provides operations similar to the drawing operators of PostScript and PDF. Operations in cairo including stroking and filling cubic Bézier splines, transforming and compositing translucent images, and antialiased text rendering. All drawing operations can be transformed by any affine transformation (scale, rotation, shear, etc.)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You didn't heed my warnings!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I got my tiny project to compile =/ Not as complex as any of yours though.
 
9:58 PM
It works.
But it has a few annoying warts.
 
like not creating directories
 
@DeadMG Works fine on Linux, and apparently works fine on Freebsd, since they made the switch (minus the linker which they are - I think actively, but I didn't check that for some time - developing).
 
It fails to run the bootstrap script properly from PS, for example.
I have to run it manually for some reason.
 
Libc++ is incredibly awkward to build and install on linux, but it works.
 
this answer (with a handsome +50 votes) mentions that GCC 4.9 will ship with working std::regex. It's unknown when this will be released gcc.gnu.org/develop.html#timelinesehe 9 secs ago
@CatPlusPlus rolololol
 
9:59 PM
Wait, boost::chrono is not header-only?
FFS
 
@Griwes So... it barely works on many platforms and many essential components flat out don't work on many platforms.
 
Now I remember why didn't go with Boost.Chrono all along.
 
@DeadMG Mac OS, linux, freebsd - works (without "barely"). Windows - doesn't yet work. Missing: linker.
 
Do what I do.
Drop MSVC support
 
Ah, there's a define.
 
10:01 PM
I'd say it is more of "works" than "doesn't work".
 
@Rapptz I want to use this at work :S
 
That's not all platforms GCC supports
 
My condolences.
 
@Griwes So... doesn't support the platform which 90% of desktop users run. Missing: A vital component.
 
10:02 PM
@Rapptz That's I usually do, actually
 
(also, your support listing is way more support than their webpages list)
 
Ah, BOOST_CHRONO_HEADER_ONLY fixes that.
4
Nice.
 
neat
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes close call
 
Still have to link with boost_system, though :(
 
10:06 PM
darn
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes So the header only macro is lying! le gasp
 
@StackedCrooked Oooh. Two drops of water with our previous cat.
 
Wooot
estimating clock resolution...
mean is 335.5639 ns (2452002 iterations)
 
> This is an example of a poor example on cplusplus.com here
 
10:10 PM
0
Q: Using boost::chrono without linking to it

JaywalkerThe boost::chrono documentation says When BOOST_CHRONO_HEADER_ONLY is defined the lib is header-only. Even with this defined, I'm getting linker error: 1>LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file 'libboost_system-vc100-mt-gd-1_48.lib' Is this a documentation bug? Or does chrono reall...

 
Finally a decent clock.
 
Being Thorough, Robot Level
@BoniTea Not bad. Thanks
 
c:\mingw\include/boost/system/error_code.hpp:516:54: fatal error: boost/../libs/system/src/error_code.cpp: No such file or directory
 #   include <boost/../libs/system/src/error_code.cpp>
Nope.
(WTF boost/../libs?)
No wonder it's buggy.
 
hm.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes whooops. It's header only by including directly from the lib source <rolls-eyes/>
 
user3010322
10:16 PM
Wait, LLVM doesn't have a linker? o.0
 
Great news. Using a clock with more resolution gives the same consistent mean as before, but now I can run the thing in 33ms instead of 99s.
 
no
 
user3010322
How... does.... it produce teh codez?
 
std dev varies more though.
@ThePhD That's not what linking is.
 
10:17 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes It got better or worse?
 
@Borgleader It has more outliers.
Time to add CSV output so I can look at more data.
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes I have no idea what a linker is supposed to do. =[
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/3d4fbf815e4373f1 (obviously works for me locally with complete boost_1_55 tree)
 
@sehe Yeah, I assume it works fine with the entire tree, but that's not a scenario I want to require.
Linking to boost_system it is.
 
wokay. I'm leaving a comment at that linked answer
 
user3010322
10:21 PM
My original thought was symbol resolution for produced intermediate files (object files) and that it would then glue together the final binary by producing the necessary trimmed-down executable with the pieces of the object files that are used.
 
Apparently that bug is not fixed (well) in 1_55: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/3d4fbf815e4373f1 (however, if you have the full source tree, it does appear to work). YMMV — sehe 10 secs ago
 
> Note: it is not do do with the double or the std::array. You changed the loop conditions, introducing a bug.
what
 
variance introduced by outliers: 99.8%
variance is severely inflated by outliers
Hmm. I really need to analyse the data to confirm this is correct.
 
what's this
do people actually follow these coding standards?
 
> To find out how well this would work in practice, Feynman had to write a computer program for QCD. Since the only computer language Richard was really familiar with was Basic, he made up a parallel version of Basic in which he wrote the program and then simulated it by hand to estimate how fast it would run on the Connection Machine.
Genius determination isn't stopped by technical means
 
10:27 PM
I don't understand- he did what?
 
@DeadMG It's nothing much there. Read in context: longnow.org/essays/richard-feynman-and-connection-machine
> The chips that we had designed were slightly too big to manufacture and the only way to solve the problem was to cut the number of buffers per chip back to five. Since Feynman's equations claimed we could do this safely, his unconventional methods of analysis started looking better and better to us. We decided to go ahead and make the chips with the smaller number of buffers.
> Fortunately, he was right. When we put together the chips the machine worked. The first program run on the machine in April of 1985 was Conway's game of Life.
 
Hehe, good taste.
 
user3010322
Kinky.
 
user3010322
GASP
 
user3010322
I got +10 on my old answer?!
 
user3010322
10:32 PM
If they upboat me too much, I'm going to delete my answer and go answer a new small question.
 
How selfish of you.
 
user3010322
I was born in this hole, and I'm gonna die in this hole!
 
user3010322
It's not selfish. I like it down here in my low-rep ghetto.
 
Man next to me on train asked girl opposite to turn her music down. She ignored him so he started reading his book out loud. She moved. Hero
Wow
 
user3010322
Hahaha, what a boss.
 
Xeo
10:35 PM
it's annoying when people don't listen :s
 
@sehe did he stop reading his book out loud after that? otherwise that would be even more annoying
 
@Xeo It's not her fault! The music was too loud to listen.
 
Xeo
@sehe oh what, she didn't even have headphones
slap to the face
 
@Xeo I'm pretty sure she had. But I have no source.
 
not wearing headphones makes it a copyright violation I think
 
10:38 PM
lol
 
@ThePhD Either you are going to withdraw that information from the world to further your own selfish goals, or you posted only to further your own selfish goals and not to provide information!
 
user3010322
The tweets after say she didn't have headphones, was just playing it from her phone.
 
Xeo
tweets say she didn't, but maybe the tweeter is exaggerating
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wellll, for this question it's alright because there's a backup answer with a generalization of my answer! (That doesn't work sometimes for MSVC 'cause MSVC is dumb, but... you know.)
 
@ThePhD So it's the latter.
 
10:40 PM
I propose a new methodology: Advanced Domain-Driven Design & Dragons. ADDD&D. The ScrumMaster begins: "You are sitting in a tavern..."
 
user3010322
It's not selfish to remove extra cruft. :P
 
It's selfish to post it for rep. (i.e. the latter)
 
user3010322
For sufficiently encompassing definition of extra and cruft.
 
@ThePhD oh. I fail at context discovery. Or I didn't care much.
 
Xeo
if you're deleting that answer, we'll just have to undelete it
 
10:40 PM
@sehe hehe, the tavern trope.
Incidentally, I never started a campaign in a tavern.
 
user3010322
You're a DM?
 
Haven't ran a game in two years, but yes.
 
user3010322
When we meet in Berlin, we must play an improv game!
 
Xeo
@sehe I stealth behind the bad guy and backstab him with my portable ballista
 
user3010322
I've never played DnD in ∞ years, but I'll totally learn just to play a quick 30 minute game!
 
10:42 PM
is that possible? 30 min game?
 
(Not a big fan of D&D, even though that's by far the system I've played the most)
 
user3010322
I dunno.
 
@StackedCrooked A quicky
 
@StackedCrooked Too short to be fun, I'd say.
 
The investors on "Dragons Den" just gave the advice -"Don't be greedy" to a client. The irony is palpable.
 
10:43 PM
you need time to craft your character
 
user3010322
Possibly Dungeons and Maybe Dragons
 
user3010322
Or just a walk through the park. Who knows.
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
WTF GOOGLE
 
@StackedCrooked Oh, I wasn't even including that.
 
10:45 PM
@ThePhD I DM'd in the late 1980's I think 3.5 just came out.
 
user3010322
@CaptainGiraffe How was it?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I presume that, in order to look up graphemes from a font, the implementation of any Unicode text rendering must be able to split a Unicode string into grapheme clusters?
 
@DeadMG Yes.
 
excellent.
 
@ThePhD It all depends on the group, and the expectations. I found it great.
 
Xeo
10:46 PM
 
Though, maybe you can do without.
 
user3010322
@StackedCrooked Maybe we could create characters beforehand?
 
Text rendering is all kinds of fun
 
Xeo
I still love that one
 
@ThePhD why not play it properly?
 
10:47 PM
@ThePhD Just pick a system that's not as mechanic-heavy as D&D
 
Say, normalising, and then use the font data for guidance might work without segmentation.
Paranoia is a dystopian science-fiction tabletop role-playing game originally designed and written by Greg Costikyan, Dan Gelber, and Eric Goldberg, and first published in 1984 by West End Games. Since 2004 the game has been published under licence by Mongoose Publishing. The game won the Origins Award for Best Roleplaying Rules of 1984 and was inducted into the Origins Awards Hall of Fame in 2007. Paranoia is notable among tabletops games for being more competitive than co-operative, with players encouraged to betray one another for their own interests, as well as for keeping a lighthe...
 
and
I presume that also, in order to render the graphemes, you have to know where each grapheme is rendered to, right?
 
It's perfect. Players are forbidden from knowing the rules.
 
@DeadMG Hmm, no, that's determined by the glyphs.
Unless you mean something else.
 
10:48 PM
er
 
@CatPlusPlus The heavyhandedness of the mechanics can of course be decided before the game starts. We often do battles/important stuff without rolling any dice just based on good ideas.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes looks interesting
 
well, what I mean is, if you want to render whatever the font outputs, then you need to decide where to place it, right?
so let's say if the font says "Render A" then you need to say "I'm going to put this A in this location".
 
I've listened to some Dungeon World youtube.com/watch?v=MX1c-YULHEA (warning: 3 hour podcast)
 
10:49 PM
so if you implement such a thing, then implementing hit testing on top wouldn't be that hard.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes wait wha
 
since you already know where the glyphs are.
 
@Xeo Happiness is mandatory
 
@Xeo Displaying knowledge of the rules usually ends with summary execution.
 
Xeo
10:50 PM
lol
 
@CatPlusPlus Lol, comment "You don't question the existence of a d3 you just ROLL THAT SHIT"
 
It's all tongue in cheek.
Lots of fun.
 
user1804599
@StackedCrooked Random message.
 
@rightfold nice
 
@Xeo It effectively gets rid of rules lawyering.
 
Xeo
10:52 PM
heh
 
And makes it super easy for players to get in the game, because you just start playing.
 
The best thing
 
Xeo
nice idea
 
@Rapptz What is HIC++?
 
> The International Workers of the World (Wobblies), described in the first edition supplement Acute Paranoia. The Computer heard about this society and sent Troubleshooters to spy on it.
> The problem was that it did not exist (the Real Life Wobblies fell apart before Alpha Complex was created), and when the Troubleshooters returned with no information, they were quickly executed for insubordination. A dozen or so teams later, one set of Troubleshooters got wise and founded the society so they'd have something to spy on. The other societies sent spies to infiltrate this new group, and the
 
10:53 PM
@FredOverflow Some coding standards thing
 
@CatPlusPlus hehe
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus ...
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus no way
 
I'm just writing up a piece on N3888
 
user3010322
Everyone's a backstabber: a goddamn backstabber.
 
user1804599
10:54 PM
Dat colon.
 
saying that implementing rendering Unicode text requires implementing Unicode processing, essentially.
 
Xeo
@ThePhD with a ballista! (see the video)
 
backstab them with a ballista
 
user3010322
@Xeo For triple damage!
 
264 points of damage !
 
Xeo
10:57 PM
so is there a plan to play a round of paranoia during the meetup or what?
robot's gotta be the GM then, if we do. he's too good at betrayal to be a PC
 
Where can we find the latest and greatest C++14 drafts?
 
@FredOverflow HIC++...HICPP...HICUPP!
 
@CaptainGiraffe N3797
 
@CaptainGiraffe Internet
 
user3010322
@Xeo He betrayed you before?
 

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