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9:00 AM
What if you have x := None; y := None; x = 5; y = x;?
Or x := None; y := None; x = y; y = 5;
 
Xeo
Too many :, drop the last two in each
 
Ooops, too much Pascal.
 
well in the first case
Optional(T) obviously has an operator= taking Optional(T), so you'd just author None's operator= to return the argument if it is an instance of Optional.
in the second case, that's a bit more fiddly, but I'd probably have to delay resolving x's type until after y's type is known.
 
Xeo
Haskell walks its expressions backwards, right?
 
well
I believe that I can implement something akin to that.
when I'm not quite as worthlessly sick as this morning.
 
Xeo
9:04 AM
Also, None shouldn't be a special type, it should be a value of type Optional(polyT) :P
 
> error C2780: 'std::shared_ptr<_Ty> std::allocate_shared(const _Alloc &,_V0_t &&,_V1_t &&,_V2_t &&,_V3_t &&,_V4_t &&)' : expects 6 arguments - 7 provided
:S
 
Xeo
Whee, infinity of 5!
 
you can define a macro to set it to whatever you want
 
Xeo
#define _VARIADIC_MAX 6 :>
@DeadMG where "whatever" is min(input, 10)
 
@Xeo What do you mean by that?
 
9:05 AM
@Xeo Well, I was thinking that rather than explicitly calling it None, I'd have two overloads of Optional, and Optional() would return that polymorphic type.
 
Xeo
None := Optional()
Just(x) := Optional(x)
 
something like that
except I'd rather not have global variables in Wide for as long as possible
also
I guess that in principle, you could do f(x) { vec := std.vector(decltype(x))(); } and have vec be a polymorphic type.
 
Xeo
For f(None), yeah
 
gonna be a bitchcake to implement though.
and I smell an unfortunate need for shared_ptr in my future.
 
9:14 AM
also
 
You should just bite the bullet and try to understand Hindley-Milner.
 
anyone has used dbms_pipe from c++?
 
how's this for a reasonable requirement: all unnamed usings like using x.y.z; must be at the top of the file, grammatically speaking.
 
@DeadMG No function scoped ones?
 
user1804599
9:16 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Most of that is common sense.
 
user1804599
The first one is funny.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hmmm, it wouldn't really solve the issue anyway because the implementation I had in mind wouldn't work for more than one :P I'd have to really implement it instead of lazy implement it.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah... I don't believe I speak that language.
 
There was a question on SO a while ago about decyphering that.
406
Q: "What part of Milner-Hindley do you not understand?"

MathematicalOrchidI can't find it now, but I swear there used to be a T-shirt for sale featuring the immortal words: What part of do you not understand? In my case, the answer would be... all of it! In particular, I often see notation like this in Haskell papers, but I have no clue what the hell any of i...

@DeadMG lol
 
well
I think that first, I am going to implement delayed expressions so I could do something like f(x) { if (false) return f(x); return 1; }.
which I can't currently type-check.
 
user1804599
9:22 AM
Foo(x) { if (x != 0) return Bar(x); else throw Foo(); }
Bar(x) { return Foo(x - 1); }
 
user1804599
How do you type check this?
 
can't.
 
Map(void* p, Index cols = std::numeric_limits<Index>::max())
// error C2589: '(' : illegal token on right side of '::'
What?
 
in fact, I suspect that even Haskell could not type check that, since there are no concrete return points.
 
user1804599
Is it possible to add explicit type annotations?
 
9:22 AM
Oh no way.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Macro?
 
Is there a max in <windows.h>?
 
Xeo
:D
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yep.
 
Xeo
9:23 AM
#define NO_MINMAX
 
it's the titular example for BOOST_PREVENT_MACRO_SUBSTITUTION.
 
user1804599
@DeadMG The type of throw in Haskell is (some exception type; dunno) -> a.
 
@not-rightfold Right, but you don't return the exception value.
 
user1804599
So I guess the final type would be Integral a => a -> b.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Every expression yields a value in Haskell, though.
 
user1804599
9:24 AM
@DeadMG Oh right; Wide equivalent would be return throw …; if that's even possible.
 
@not-rightfold a -> a
 
@not-rightfold It's not.
 
Xeo
expressions > statements~
 
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes a does not support /= 0. :V
 
Xeo
@not-rightfold Integral a => a -> a, then, was the point
 
9:25 AM
hopefully, when I have delayed expressions, I could type check Foo(x) { if (x ~= 0) return Bar(x); else return x; } Bar(x) { return Foo(x - 1); }.
 
user1804599
Oh right.
 
user1804599
:P
 
user1804599
I understand!
 
Xeo
@DeadMG And hopefully your optimizer will make that Foo(_){ return 0; } :P
 
by the way
 
user1804599
9:25 AM
Is it possible to add explicit types to functions in Wide?
 
I'm going to bet that std::function trees are horrifically inefficient.
 
@DeadMG What's ~=?
 
user1804599
Because if not then I'm seeing a hell await.
 
@not-rightfold You can make explicit argument types, but explicit return types are broken because I broke them.
@R.MartinhoFernandes !=.
 
user1804599
@DeadMG Awesome!
 
9:26 AM
C++'s ~ and ! are only two different operators because implicit integer->boolean conversion, so !5 != ~5.
whereas in Wide no such thing exists, so I folded boolean and binary operators.
 
Prelude
λ let f x = if False then f x else 1
Prelude
λ :t f
f :: Num a => t -> a
Prelude
λ
We were both wrong.
 
user1804599
@DeadMG s/binary/bitwise/
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah, right
 
user1804599
Prefix ~ is a unary operator. :P
 
Unitwise.
#include <Eigen/src/Core/util/DisableStupidWarnings.h>
lol
 
9:33 AM
atleast the name is informative
 
0
Q: How to copy turbo c++ out put?

user1023696How to copy turbo c++ out put ?.i already Google the problem but in vain .It says press print scrn and paste or right click and mark all and paste i tried the both but not working. The problem is it's only copy what is present on the current screen. But i want the whole screen from the beginning....

Turbo C++ lol
 
windows 8 and in XP have the same problem . — user1023696 10 mins ago
lol, using Windows 8 with TC++.
 
:D
Have you tried Windows Vista or Windows 7? — FredOverflow 11 secs ago
 
considering he's using an MS-DOS emulator I don't think it matters
 
why would anyone want to use crappy tools when given better options, though
 
9:38 AM
I'm going to wager $5 he's using Turbo C++ because his university/college told him to.
 
Maybe the school teacher uses Turbo C++ and requires his students to use it, too?
 
@TheForestAndtheTrees And he's from India.
 
user1804599
Wonderful: %s/\t/ /g.
 
that's just bad teaching then, imo
 
@FredOverflow And surprisingly no one poked his eyes out yet.
 
user1804599
9:39 AM
> put ?.i
 
user1804599
lol
 
Hi folks
 
Bartek, I missed you! ;_;
 
Oh, that's sweet. I didn't have time and internet connection lately :(
Even now I am still on 3G on my iPad, damn ISP
 
@MarcClaesen Are you saying there are bad teachers out there?! ;)
 
user1804599
9:51 AM
Bootstrap is great for forms.
 
I wouldn't dare.
 
user1804599
There are bad teachers out there.
 
I also caught cold over the weekend, so I stayed at home today. And if any of you wants to visit Poland, now it's the best time and I have plenty of space to host you, topped with a badass garden.
 
user1804599
But not Fred. Fred is great.
 
can Fred teach such greatness to others?
 
Fred is overlowing with greatness, huh?
 
@not-rightfold what if bad teachers are really just very very good teachers in disguise?
they're just so good, you can't tell
 
0
A: How to copy turbo c++ output?

FredOverflowYou can always capture the output of a program by redirecting the standard output stream. Suppose your program is called exercise1.exe. Then you can call it like that from the command line: exercise1 >awesome.txt Then you can simply open awesome.txt with the text editor of your choice and see...

 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 by the way, i think i see your point now
 
Oh and wrote a game on saturday, apparently I was that bored.
 
9:53 AM
@Telkitty猫咪咪 w.r.t. to the blue eyed islanders
 
@StephenLin maybe they are ahead of their time
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 i mean, even more than i did last time
@Telkitty猫咪咪 i guess having those smart relatives really does help :)
@MarcClaesen exactly! or maybe being ahead enough is the same as being behind enough
 
lol, was it that link which made you see the point? :p
 
@StephenLin and they are hiding because...?
 
@MarcClaesen ::wink::
@BartekBanachewicz they're not being condescending, they're just pretending to be for your benefit
 
9:55 AM
Also who is @MarcClaesen?
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 sure, go with that
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz Das een Belg jonge.
 
@BartekBanachewicz he's God, but he's hiding it from himself
 
@StephenLin i can't possibly imagine bad teacher being bad for my benfit
 
@BartekBanachewicz i think that's a failure of imagination right there
 
Xeo
9:56 AM
Dammit, now I'm reading up on how Hindley-Milner works :(
 
@MarcClaesen I'm pretty sure time is ahead of them.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes and i'm pretty sure all of your are wise men and i'm the only idiot in this chat room
(or women)
 
@StephenLin so what's your view on blue eyed islander now?
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 completely arbitrary
 
user1804599
@ScottW Use DOM API.
 
9:57 AM
Fred's overflowing is UB~
 
user1804599
jQuery is only good at AJAX.
 
user1804599
For animations use CSS.
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 it's just a big conspiracy, and what the guru says doesn't really matter
 
nah, @StephenLin, we're all dumb
 
user1804599
lol browsers other than Chrome.
 
9:58 AM
@not-rightfold how about not using savage languages out there?
 
@BartekBanachewicz I want to be one of the cool kids.
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 or maybe that's what the guru wants you to think ::cough:: ::cough:: ::wink::
@Telkitty猫咪咪 got it?
 
@MohammadAliBaydoun are you now filling Derpstorm's spot nowadays?
 
@BartekBanachewicz that sounds like something God would say to throw me off the scent
if he were trying to hide his existence
 
@MarcClaesen bah, 5k rep is already pretty far on the "cool' scale
 
9:59 AM
@BartekBanachewicz I don't even know how, why, what or who Derpstorm is, are, was or will be :<
 
yes, it came up last time
you know what's kind of like that
if God says
"everything will be ok, as long as you don't get paranoid"
 
@BartekBanachewicz I am ambitious.
 
@Mohammad ThePhd rings a bell?
 
because if you think about it...if you get paranoid, then things won't be ok
so then you might be paranoid
 
10:00 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Oh yes.
 
because you realize things might not be ok
 
sometimes being paranoid helps
 
and it's a vicious circular loop
 
@Marc if you're coding in C++, being ambitious will soon turn into "depressed" :P
 
well, pretend i'm the devil right now
@MarcClaesen "Everything will be OK as long as you don't get paranoid..." ::evil grin::
@MarcClaesen how was that??? :D
 
10:01 AM
FFS mobile chat app Y U NO SEND on Enter / Shift+enter and I have to get my finger and touch the screen every time.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I just made a whimsical error system that's powered by exceptions and inspired by BSoD :D
 
@MarcClaesen are you ok?
 
"inspired by BSOD" sure sounds funny
 
@StephenLin nothing changed, I was already paranoid! I'm sure someone tried to steal my cookies and talked thrash to my debugging-duck earlier.
 
10:02 AM
@MarcClaesen have we done this before?
 
@MarcClaesen gotcha :)
 
@StephenLin the duck doesn't trust me now :(
 
eh, everyone still writing Engines, huh?
 
@MarcClaesen quack quack
 
10:03 AM
@BartekBanachewicz It's the funnest project I've ever worked on ;_;
 
@MarcClaesen maybe "you're" the duck?
 
When I was writing this game on Saturday, I had so much of "fuck everything" attitude, i actually made some progress
I even used a bit of TMP.
 
@StephenLin maybe the duck is a figment of my imagination
 
it's amazing how much focusing on actual code without fucking around with useless "building blocks" helps
and I just couldn't find motivation to work on my libraries
 
I had that attitude before. I got a lot done. Took me only 2 days to clean everything up :P
 
Xeo
10:08 AM
Hindley-Milner is actually pretty simplistic, eh
 
My AppState model got better too. Still not the best, but I'll work on it over time when it matters more.
 
Premake sucks
If I tell it to link with "boost_system", it generates VS project files that link with boost_system.lib :S
No such file.
 
what else is it supposed to try to link with?
not that you need to link to boost explicitly on Windows.
 
The boost files are called libboost_system-vc110-mt-s-1_54.lib and stuff like that.
 
well I personally don't think it's unreasonable that Premake doesn't know the naming scheme of every arbitrary library
 
10:15 AM
@DeadMG Ugh, then I need to set it to link boost only on Linux. FFS.
@DeadMG Wait, MSVC requires you to pass the names?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes No. The Boost headers derive the name from the various VS macros, I believe.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes, but boost automatically links
 
all I'm saying is, how the hell is Premake supposed to know that "boost_system" means "libboost_system-vc110-mt-s-1_54"
 
@DeadMG Well, GCC knows that boost_system is <whatever the file is named>...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes They might have just special cased it. But I certainly don't think it's unreasonable not to.
 
Xeo
10:17 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Isn't it rather that on Linux, there's only libboost_system.a and libboost_system.so?
 
@Xeo No.
@DeadMG No, they don't. It's the same for every library.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What, that GCC magically knows the naming conventions that library uses- if it even uses one, which many don't?
I find it unlikely that GCC could cope if I had Wide.a and Wide-fuck-you-GCC-lolcakes.a, where one of them is debug mode.
 
@DeadMG Unless they come in broken packages, yes, it knows.
 
ah, right.
so it has fuck all to do with anything to do with build systems or make or GCC or anything like that, it's all about Linux packages.
which obviously don't exist on Windows, so there's no way Premake could use them for creating VS projects
 
Well, Cmake can somehow magically hide the difference away from me.
The primary motivation to use a cross-platform build system is to not have to deal with platform differences :S
 
10:25 AM
well, when you do something cross-platform then it's no surprise that some platforms offer amenities that others don't
but at the fundamental level, if you are on Windows, I don't see how any program is supposed to determine the name of this library but debug mode.
 
links { blah blah }
configuration "linux"
links { "boost_system" }
@DeadMG Point is that I need to do this crap all over :S
 
the real cause of that issue is that Boost does not present a uniform linking interface.
 
It feels like I am writing different build scripts for each platform.
 
if they autolinked on Linux, or used the same naming for Linux and Windows and autolinked on neither, then you would not have any platform-specific build logic.
 
(Which in turn feels like wasted time)
Fundamentally, development on Windows sucks.
 
10:35 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes depending on how you build boost, it can generate libraries with about a half-dozen different naming conventions
Any build system trying to account for that is pretty much fucked
 
why does c++ networking have to be so overly complicated?
 
Because it is networking?
 
even boost:asio looks like pure gibberish to me
and the tutorial+documentation is ... substandard
 
It is?
What would make it better?
 
If the author explained why he does things, not just that he does them, thatd be great
 
10:44 AM
Can you point a specific example?
 
New semester started at Universities?
 
so
 
We’re getting influx of crap
 
did you guys know that gallstones is the number one cause of emergency hospital admissions for abdominal pain?
fun fact.
 
Not appendicitis?
 
10:47 AM
nope.
appendicitis is very serious, but gallstones are very common.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes not really, the whole thing is 100% obscure to me
didnt anyone ever write a really easy wrapper for all that functionality? I would be surprised if not - yet I didnt find anything easier than boost::asio on the web
 
lol, wot.
you're talking about asynchronous handling of complex I/O.
boost::asio is the really easy.
 
@CBenni Then it seems the problem is that you lack the minimum requirements to understanding it.
 
You could probably make a simple wrapper that uses lots of Buzzwords and has limited functionality that looks easy to use and models what people think networking is like :P
 
I do indeed not have the knowledge, but I am willing to learn it
Yet I thought reading the tutorial would be a good starting point
 
10:52 AM
which one? cause I'm looking at the tuts provided on the website and it seems dead simple.
 
JBL
@MohammadAliBaydoun I'm still waiting for the lib that provide the doMyWork() function.
 
@DeadMG When I read them my main complaint was that they were too simple :S
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes "dead" simple, geddit?
 
@JBL Or the makeThingsWork() function :D
 
JBL
Also.
 
10:54 AM
@JBL I prefer to call it DoShit() personally.
 
@DeadMG to someone with alot of experience, maybe. But to me, all the function calls are obscure and cryptic.
 
@CBenni Then you need more general-purpose language knowledge.
you can't go from std::cout << "Hello, World!"; to asynchronous callbacks with functional binding.
 
@CBenni If they all are obscure and cryptic, you have other stuff to learn first.
 
JBL
@ScottW Sadly...
 
So you're saying you don't understand the first one? boost.org/doc/libs/1_54_0/doc/html/boost_asio/tutorial/…
WTF.
If I set _ITERATOR_DEBUG_LEVEL to 2, I get some sort of "this thing does not support > 1". If I set it to 1, I get "mismatch with some.obj, should be 2" :|
FML
 
11:00 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes rebuild some.obj?
iirc, 2 is the insane level that you never want
 
@jalf I know, I just tried it because it had a mismatch first.
 
Does anyone has used dbms_pipe with in c++?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Pretty sure that 2 is only used in previous versions of VS.
 
also wow, chopping around 30% off our build time by using ninja instead of msbuild
 
I never had much respect for msbuild
 
11:03 AM
@DeadMG nah, afaik, 2 was never used by default. But it is roughly equivalent to whatever the other variable was, which was set in debug builds in previous versions
_HAS_ITERATOR_DEBUGGING, IIRC
 
yeah.
some mess about Microsoft and Dinkumware providing different debugging mechanisms and macros
 
Xeo
@jalf Well, ninja is meant to be really really fast, no?
 
@Xeo yeah, but I didn't realize msbuild wasted that much time
 
Xeo
@user1095108: Good luck actually moving anything from const&& without const_cast or mutable-hacking-don't-do-it-I-will-slap-you. — Xeo 6 secs ago
Subtle enough?
 
11:20 AM
so who wants to bet that when I go to doc on Weds that he tells me to fuck off?
 
Xeo
... why would he?
 
eh
whilst neither of the previous doctors I saw actually told me to literally fuck off, I often felt like their suggestions implied spending an inordinate amount of time waiting to see if it would be successful
so I guess I'm just expecting a trend continuation
 
Anyone got experience with visual studio´s EnvDte automation?
 
11:35 AM
@DavidKron Some.
But not for about a year now.
Also, mostly read only.
You should probably ask on SO proper.
 
Yea.. I where mostly just wondering if its possible to manually instantiate an EnvDte object for unit tests.
 
What do you consider manual instantiation?
 
Xeo
-- interesting, but actually makes sense
\f -> (f True, f 0) -- error
let f = \x.x in (f True, f 0) -- fine
 
EnvDTE.Project dteProj = new EnvDTE.Projec();
Its an abstract interface so that cant be done, i need to know the "real" type
 
11:42 AM
you'd have to fill it out yourself, I think.
make your own mock Project implementation.
 
@DavidKron It is COM, you simply ask some factory class to build it for you. Let me check.
 
CoCreateClassInstance?
 
This is C#:
 
Pastebin plix
 
@wilx Awesome <3
 
11:44 AM
Zap'd!
Why?
 
because it was massive
use a pastebin or gist.io or something.
 
Heh.
Geez.
 
You could have at least waited for my response before reposting it.
 
Well, im happy :D
 
@DavidKron: Also, read and take care of this: msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/vstudio/ms228772.aspx
 
11:57 AM
Some tea would go really nice with this cake.
 
Xeo
Why do you have cake. Explain yourself.
 
@wilx Creating EnvDte takes literally 5 secs tough, I´m guessing its almost starting a visual studio.
 
@Xeo Because there's an awesome bakery just across the street.
 
Xeo
And why do I not have cake?
 
Because said bakery is hundreds of kilometres away from you.
 
11:59 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes, but why do you have cake?
 
@DavidKron It is starting a new VS process indeed.
 

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