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user1804599
11:00 AM
Stupid laws gonna stupid
 
user1804599
It's not up to the police to decide that, because if that happens, then things get out of control. For example, there are people that think it's fine to have people behead each other.
 
@Ell It's basically a hardware implementation of crypto algorithms with write-only storage for a few keys.
 
user1804599
And cops aren't chosen by the people so they have nothing to say
 
user1804599
They must follow the rules
 
@Ell 2FA as well
 
user1804599
11:05 AM
Zombies can now wander!
 
@Ell Write-only storage means that you can never read the keys; instead of reading the keys and performing encryption or decryption, you ask the hardware to do encryption or decryption directly. The key never leaves the device so it is safe to use even in compromised systems.
 
also makes it convenient to carry the keys around
 
And yeah, you can store the 2FA secrets in it. (It's essentially the same as storing keys)
 
user1804599
yummy krupuk
 
When I want a 2FA nonce I just tap the key on my phone and the YubiAuthenticator app tells the YubiKey the time, the key generates the nonces from the secrets and sends it back to the app. The secrets never leave the key.
 
user1804599
11:12 AM
Help I need to do monad transformers
 
@BartekBanachewicz Right. Because it's a physical piece of hardware, you can give it the same security standard as, say, your house keys.
 
user1804599
type Log = Seq String
type Step e a = WriterT Log (Eff (random :: RANDOM) e) a
 
well?
don't write code against WriterT
write code against MonadWriter
 
user1804599
Write code against MonadStep. :)
 
that's fine as well, but then you probably want newtype
 
11:18 AM
Is this Haskell?
 
PureScript probably
But could be Haskell as well
 
@BartekBanachewicz Thanks
 
user1804599
class (Monad m) <= MonadStep m where
  log :: String -> m Unit
  random :: Int -> Int -> m Int
 
user1804599
Nah, don't gonna do a type class for this
 
user1804599
it's too program-specific
 
user1804599
11:20 AM
just a newtype
 
program-specific monad typeclasses are perfectly fine
but obviously newtype is simpler
 
user1804599
yeah but then I have to write forall m. (MonadStep m) => all over the place.
 
@rightfold no, just define your own monad to have that inside
type Step a = forall m. (MonadStep m) => m a
you can do the same with regular MonadWriter and stuff
 
@Ell I use it for unlocking my password database; for 2FA nonces to login to all websites I use that support them; for my GPG keys that I use to, for example, sign git commits; and sometime soon for remote logins via SSH (including pushing to GitHub) as well.
 
user1804599
That'd turn f :: State -> Step State into f :: State -> (forall m. (MonadStep m) => m State), not f :: forall m. (MonadStep m) => State -> m State.
 
user1804599
11:24 AM
Which breaks type inference because of rank-N types :D
 
meh, it works well enough
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah I see
I have been wanting to become more security conscious
I always have a worry that I'll somehow permanently lose access to my passwords or something like that
 
@Ell well do you use lastpass?
 
Ell
No
I use keepass
 
and now you never lose sight of your donkey
 
11:31 AM
@Ell The YubiKey acts as a USB keyboard when you plug it in, and you can program it to type out a static password (say, your KeePass master password) when you tap the little circle in it.
Though I'm not too happy about that.
KeePass does support using a one-time password for login and you could use the YubiKey to provide that instead, but I'm not sure whether that adds much.
The OTPs in this scenario are not really one-time, since the counter needs to be saved in the database.
 
@Griwes I wish this was a true story :(
 
For any copy of the database you can do replay attacks all day long, even if you have used the OTP that unlocks it. (Because it's HOTP)
It's essentially just a couple of extra bits on your master password.
 
Ell
yeah
hmm
 
TOTP would be better but that can only work if some remote machine has exclusively access to the database (in which case HOTP would also work ok).
 
Ell
I'll have to look into it
time to tidy room first before parents arrive :V
 
11:37 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes My only problem with a USB device like this is I'd be constantly afraid of losing it =/
 
@Borgleader Hence why I have a backup :3
 
It's also inconvenient if you for example, forget to carry it with you. Like, say I leave for work and I don't have it and I want to order something online or something.
 
If KeePass was designed to do the encryption and decryption in a SmartCard, I would be happier, since we'd be back to the secret never leaving the device.
@Borgleader Hence why I keep it with my house keys :3
It actually made me more careful with the keys.
Been a long time since I locked myself out or something.
 
Huh... I don't actually have a keyring, because I only have a key, which I keep in my wallet, don't have much space for a USB drive in there though. Might be I need to reconsider.
 
FWIW, I have keys bigger than it, and if don't need NFC, there's a nano version that is little more than the size of the USB connector.
 
user1804599
11:43 AM
@BartekBanachewicz PureScript has no GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving yet :(
 
o.O 80$ 100$CAD Damn... not saying its not worth it, but that's more than I expected
 
@Borgleader Used to be cheaper, but they replaced it with a newer model :/
The software in the new one is no longer open-source, so it sucks.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum thief :D
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well I checked and Yubikey 4 on amazon is half that (50$)
62$ for the NFC version (if i read the comments correctly)
 
11:49 AM
@Borgleader There's no NFC version. (Another reason the 4 sucks)
 
@Borgleader I paid $50 for mine
 
They probably meant the NEO.
 
there was a discount back then and I ordered 3, so the shipping amortized
 
I got mine at a discount, too.
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes how would that work? keepass asks the key for the password to a particular account?
 
11:54 AM
@Ell Well, that would require storing the database in the device (won't work; not even if you hack it; there's simply not enough storage).
 
Ell
I see
 
I was just thinking of instead of asking you for the master password, it simply feeds the encrypted database to the device and gets back the unencrypted one.
The only password you might have to type is the password to unlock the key that is stored there.
 
Does anybody know if the licence on Cimg can be used for commercial work?
 
So, business as usual, except that the encryption and decryption is not done by the KeePass program, but by the device instead.
>
License
GNU Library or Lesser General Public License version 2.0 (LGPLv2), GNU General Public License version 2.0 (GPLv2)
Yes, it can be use for commercial work. Not without conditions, though.
@NickDelben Contact your lawyer, or ask the author of the library directly for permission.
 
12:05 PM
But that's only U2F, not TOTP (which is what almost everyone uses)
 
well I use U2F when I can
 
So, Google?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Google, Github, lastpass
 
Oh, GitHub is new.
Still sucks because it needs specialised software.
 
hm, I am reading FreeBSD comparison to Linux
on paper it sounds that a few design choices of linux might be better
 
Ven
12:14 PM
o/
 
Git vs SVN, kernel only vs the whole OS, adaptation between ports vs minimal changes
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz explain?
 
nwp
@BartekBanachewicz link?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Which ones? Not that I disagree or agree. I am just curious.
I used to run FreeBSD for quite some time but it was pain to set up. Ubuntu is much easier. But that was when there was no PC BSD distribution which made things infinitely easier.
 
12:19 PM
@wilx see above
@wilx dunno what pains you're talking about. I mean server, not desktop.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh sorry, its the NEO that has NFC, anywho it is only 12$ more than the 4 as opposed to twice the price.
 
@Borgleader ~54 EUR? That's not cheap.
 
fbsd% echo $SHELL
/usr/local/bin/zsh
@rightfold are your proud of me
 
@BartekBanachewicz ZSH \o/
 
user1804599
yeah
 
user1804599
12:28 PM
now install oh my zsh
 
@wilx According to google, with the current exchange rate 62$CAD -> ~42€
 
Ven
@rightfold have you seen that? fsprojects.github.io/Fable
 
@rightfold hau
 
@Borgleader I took a look at German Amazon.
 
user1804599
@Ven yeah
 
12:29 PM
         __                                     __
  ____  / /_     ____ ___  __  __   ____  _____/ /_
 / __ \/ __ \   / __ `__ \/ / / /  /_  / / ___/ __ \
/ /_/ / / / /  / / / / / / /_/ /    / /_(__  ) / / /
\____/_/ /_/  /_/ /_/ /_/\__, /    /___/____/_/ /_/
                        /____/                       ....is now installed!
 
Ven
@rightfold tried it at all? (I can guess "no")
 
> As a bonus, it compiles NUnit tests to Mocha!
funny
 
user1804599
@Ven no
 
also I didn't install vim because it wants 450MiB of packages
 
Ven
12:33 PM
lol
 
@BartekBanachewicz You sure that's not basically the entire windowing system?
 
that's posible
 
$ emerge vim

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild     U  ] app-editors/vim-core-7.4.1821::gentoo [7.4.827::gentoo] USE="acl nls -minimal" 12,271 KiB
[ebuild     U  ] app-editors/vim-7.4.1821::gentoo [7.4.827::gentoo] USE="acl nls python -X -cscope -debug -gpm -lua -luajit -minimal -perl -racket -ruby (-selinux) -tcl -vim-pager" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7 python3_4 -python3_3 -python3_5%" 0 KiB

Total: 2 packages (2 upgrades), Size of downloads: 12,271 KiB
 
merge reviews at my company are fucking terrible
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You have many flags turned off though.
 
12:35 PM
9 comments on my merge request, one halfof which was worth doing
all the rest were just shitting around trivial style issues
 
@wilx Do you use any of them?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yep, that's the windowing system.
 
1 message moved to bin
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes First of all, I do not user Vim at all.
 
12:36 PM
every time I wanted to actually do some useful work
nope
 
@Puppy seriously, if a scrolling text window bothers you, change the CSS to make it smaller
 
nwp
@Puppy no clang-format + clang-tidy to auto-fix those things?
 
this feature is here precisely to allow posting large code blocks
 
@BartekBanachewicz Fuck that. Just use pastebin for massive code dumps.
 
no, I won't
 
12:37 PM
Fight!
\o\
 
@BartekBanachewicz The motivation of the authors of the feature is irrelevant to me.
 
your views on that matter are irrelevant to me
 
@nwp They were fine beforehand
 
they're pretty relevant if you don't want to get that shit binned
 
nwp
12:37 PM
@wilx ooh, starcraft 2 match on stream! Winner gets to post a code dump!
 
@nwp :D
 
@Puppy stop being bad at using your web browser
 
it's easy to use the web browser correctly
 
chat isn't meant to tailor to your specific needs
 
just open a tab, type the address in, push enter
use complette
 
12:39 PM
well clearly you need to learn a few more things about it then
like changing CSS on the sites you use frequently to suit you better
 
@wilx If I enable everything except Racket, it's still only 27 megs.
 
nah
 
Racket is more than 100 megs, though.
 
SO's CSS is SO's problem, I don't give a fuck
 
removing large code blocks because "OMG THEY RENDER LARGE ON MY MACHINE I CANT SEE ANYTHING" is your problem with you being a badlet
fuck off
 
Ven
12:40 PM
b a d l e t s
 
if you disagree with SO design then file a meta issue
 
Ven
b a d l e x i c a l - l e t
 
it's not your job to correct the site
 
@BartekBanachewicz Walls of text have never been welcome here. It's not "Puppy's views".
 
if you dislike me binning shit, then file a meta issue
 
nwp
12:41 PM
> if you disagree with SO design then file a meta issue
> it's not your job to correct the site
wat?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes the reasoning is stupid though
 
Ven
you should make a "we hate puppy" club
 
I see no reason why you using a site feature to post large walls of text is any more in the design of the site than me using a site feature to remove messages.
I have a site feature dedicated to removing messages; I used it.
that's well within the site's design and intended use.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'll refer you to the rules.
> Don’t post large blocks of code inline: use Coliru or Gist and post a link instead.
 
okay, then, have it your way
 
12:41 PM
also it's an established policy in this room.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes where can I file an issue to the rules
 
There's actually a git repo.
@BartekBanachewicz The reasoning is that it annoys regulars by taking up screen space.
 
Ven
Code paste is cruise control for cool
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Theres a git repo for the rules?
 
It's also mentioned in the rules.
 
Ven
12:43 PM
of course. but you won't get to know the URL :P
 
@Ven It's in the rules.
ITT we realise that no regular reads the rules.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes then change your display options
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh I read them... 3-4 years ago
 
@BartekBanachewicz No.
 
I know you're bad at using a web browser pup but I believe in you
 
12:44 PM
It's much easier to bin Bartek's posts than it is to mess around with my phone's browser.
 
yeah pretty much that
changing every browser I use on every device, and then every visitor doing that, is way more complicated and annoying than simply binning dumps.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes is binning from mobile comfortable for you?
I sincerely hope it's annoying af
 
no, that's why he let me do it ;p
 
@BartekBanachewicz Haven't actually tried it yet, but the new interface makes many things easier. Dunno.
 
@Puppy sure, if you need to inflate your ego, go ahead
just keep in mind you're saying "I'm bad at using a web browser" every time you do that
 
12:46 PM
indeed
 
I'm seriously inflating my ego by simply using a more powerful device right this second
 
You mean the annoying gist oneboxing?
It's been broken since ever.
 
12:47 PM
yeah
 
It used to onebox randomly.
 
28
Q: Chat oneboxing of GitHub's Gists is broken

Bartek Banachewicz gists used to have numeric IDs, now they don't, so it doesn't match the gist regex on master_chat.js - Unihedro, JavaScript Chat Could this be fixed so that Gists onebox properly again?

 
@BartekBanachewicz Well, you are installing a lot of X.org dependencies.
IIRC, you can install vim-nox or such package to avoid that.
Or set up flags.
 
> looks like we've hit GitHub's API quota.
shit
 
so back to the original topic
fucking merge reviews
 
12:49 PM
I'm gonna wait until the quota resets
the post a huge code dump
and according to your rules, you're not supposed to bin it, because it's a gist
 
@BartekBanachewicz I already bookmarked this message.
 
I'm totally happy to bin a oneboxed gist that's too big.
 
@Puppy where do the rules say that you're not supposed to post "too big" gists
what's "too big"?
 
> Try not to inline Amazon links, they tend to result in boxes far too big.
 
Also rules repo has disabled issues
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's for amazon
 
12:50 PM
Not specific to gists, but anyone with half a brain would realise the problem is the boxes' size, not it being from Amazon.
The reason you only need half a brain to realise the size is the reason is the fact that it explains the reason right there.
 
The size isn't universally agreed upon
 
The bigger the better!
 
"huge code dump" is clearly on the bin side of the fence.
 
Again, what's too big?
6
@R.MartinhoFernandes where's the fence?
 
whatever pisses off the owners in the room at the time
 
12:52 PM
the rules don't specify that
 
Sometimes I bin stuff I don't mind just because others complained.
Use your judgment. We're treating you like a grown-up. Act like one.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes we took a huge meta battle just to prove a point that using "judgement" is fundamentally flawed
 
no, but it's inherent in the mechanism, since owners enforce the rules
 
the rules should be clear enough for everybody to know how to operate within them
now it's absolutely unclear
 
it's perfectly fine
 
12:54 PM
They're fine like this.
You don't get any repercussions from this.
 
step 1, think briefly before posting a thing, step 2, if it gets binned use a pastebin instead
 
Worst thing that happens is that you repost without oneboxing.
 
am I supposed to binary search the code dump size that triggers the currently present ROs now?
"14 lines got binned, let's try 10"
 
yes.
 
Well, I guess worst thing in your case is that you go on on another childish rant about the rules.
 
12:55 PM
1 message moved to bin
 
@BartekBanachewicz No, you're not. You're supposed to be respectful instead of intentionally annoying.
 
problem: I can choose to bin you for reasons other than because the box is too big.
for example, because you're being intentionally annoying.
1 message moved to bin
I was thinking about doing that but figured I'd let you this time ;p
 
Ven
is a war starting before my eyes
 
started
 
12:57 PM
2 mins ago, by Puppy
yes.
 
The phrase "I know it when I see it" is a colloquial expression by which a speaker attempts to categorize an observable fact or event, although the category is subjective or lacks clearly defined parameters. The phrase was famously used in 1964 by United States Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart to describe his threshold test for obscenity in Jacobellis v. Ohio. In explaining why the material at issue in the case was not obscene under the Roth test, and therefore was protected speech that could not be censored, Stewart wrote: I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material...
 
Ven
@LucDanton WTF???
 
who of your two authoritarian dickheads do I listen to this time?
 
That's where the fence lies.
 
try sarcasm
it was such a blatantly stupid suggestion that I thought that you could not misunderstand the response
 
12:58 PM
@Ven hey logement gratuit et 'quelques jours' de forfait de ski (j’en conclus que ça sera donc 2 jours)
 
Ven
@LucDanton -_-
 
t’as pas la flexibilité d’esprit pour Benski laisse tomber
 
nwp
is initializing a const array through a lambda good or bad? It doesn't get optimized out at -O0 and no idea what VCC does
 
@BartekBanachewicz There's "definitely too big", "definitely not too big", and "could go either way". If you post something in #3, you don't get any harm besides possibly spending a few seconds reposting in a smaller form. Don't post anything in #1, don't worry about posting things in #2, and accept that things in #3 might have to be reposted.
 
Ven
@LucDanton ni la flexibilité d'anus
@LucDanton j'adore le test d'orthographe aussi
@LucDanton "Se sentir concerner par les injustices de notre belle planete "
 
1:05 PM
imgur blocked at work
wesh frer g raté koi
 
du webdev
 
Ven
de qualiqualitey
 
oh ma go m'a kontra qu'une meuf de son taf écrit "calité"
 
user1804599
lol @Ven
 
hqhq ça s’écrit qu’alité, ou à la limite assis
3
 
Ven
1:08 PM
kaliteyyy
 
jdm validé
 
user1804599
x = {hasOwnProperty: 1}
y = x { hasOwnProperty = 2 } -- runtime error
 
is there a noob-friendly library for multitouch?
 
Ven
@rightfold :[
do they even into Object.create(null)
 
user1804599
no
 
user1804599
1:09 PM
but that doesn't matter
 
Ven
it really doesn't
 
user1804599
they should just use {}.hasOwnProperty.call(x, p) instead of x.hasOwnProperty(p).
 
Ven
@rightfold yeah, cache {}.hasOwnProperty, better perfs
 
@Rerito wesh frer? j'ai compris le reste mais pas ca =/
 
My worst post ever
http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/243335
2
 
user1804599
1:13 PM
Another thing I like about using SVG for graphics is that I can use CSS animations.
 
Ven
@Borgleader frer = frère. wesh is suburbian slang for "salut"/"yo"
 
And wesh is actually the arab word for "what"
 
@Ven ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 
you got "go" right as well?
 
Ven
le franC c konplikey
@rightfold can you explain to me what's the deal with TS module/namespaces VS import?
 
user1804599
1:17 PM
import is for CommonJS, namespace (which is the recommended alias of module) is for globals.
 
Ven
@rightfold so, "don't use namespace (and module)" is the recommended way?
and just import { A, B } from "./c";?
 
user1804599
And instead of /// <reference you should use tsconfig.json
 
no
 
user1804599
uh do whatever you like
 
import {A, B } from "./c" is shit
use namespaces instead, they are far superior
 
user1804599
1:19 PM
at work we use namespaces because Browserify is so slow we'd get nothing done
 
we use Webpack and it's fucking slow but we went with it anyway despite not needing it for anything
 
Ven
@Puppy why.
 
because
imports are just a bunch of manual legwork you should have an automated tool do for you (e.g. the compiler)
it's a recipe for merge conflicts and pointless wastes of developer time
 
Ven
so you go for globals
 
namespaces aren't globals; they're just namespaces.
the fact that they may be implemented as global variables in JS is immaterial
they're no worse than namespaces in C++ or C#
 
1:23 PM
@Puppy Of course they are. Merely being part of JS makes them worse.
 
TS, actually
 
user1804599
Webpecker
 
user1804599
@Ven is there a Racket library that allows me to import C headers for ffi/unsafe?
 
Hey there!
 
no.
 
1:31 PM
puppy are you ven
 
Ven
@rightfold I think so
 
nwp
@Explorer_N I thought you were a ninja
 
ninja?
No,nwp
 
user4655569
Yo some guys of you know a "tool for writing good exceptions" ? Programming language is irrelevant. I know it sounds dumb but got to introduce a tool for Exceptions in my presentation
 
@YannikK. Exceptions?
Do you mean citations or quotes or what?
#confusion
 
nwp
1:39 PM
@wilx one of these would probably qualify if they would check exception paths or something
 
hi guys
I need help with something
I found an interesting problem asking to find a digit without any repetitive structures. given the number 191 for example, I need to calculate 1+9+1=11 and then 1+1=2 (I think you get the algorithm)
I know how to achieve this using loops, but how to do it without loops?
 
Ell
I don't get the algorithm
 
nwp
replace the loop with if + goto
 
Ell
Oh wait
 
@Ell He's summing the digits recursively, until theres only one
 
nwp
1:42 PM
or recursion
 
@Victor Without loops usually means with recursion, IMHO.
 
which is basically a loop written in a slightly different way
 
@Puppy Only if your compiler can do tail recursion, etc.
 
nwp
if the number is a compile time constant one could write some crazy variadic template expansion code
 
@nwp :)
 
1:48 PM
@wilx an even better reason to not do that shit
 
user1804599
A loop is when you execute the same instruction twice.
 
so add ebp, ebp; add ebp, ebp; is a loop?
 
user1804599
Other kind of equality.
 
user1804599
The kind where you compare addresses.
 
nwp
guess using std::for_each with a "fake" end iterator would be cheating
 
1:51 PM
what if you overwrote the contents of that memory address to hold a completely different instruction?
 
Ven
you wouldn't download an instruction
 
user1804599
@Victor You can't do it without loops unless you have an upper bound on the length.
 
I found out that it is n % 9
for some stupid reason
 
user1804599
oh cool
 
nwp
@Puppy I would not be surprised if intel had enough redundant instructions to make it loopless for this definition of loop
 
Ven
1:53 PM
@nwp well, since mov is turing-complete anyways
 
@Ven The page faulting mechanism is Turing-complete, so you don't even need mov.
 
how would you trigger page faults without mov?
IIRC that page faulting thing used mov to trigger the page faults and that's how mov is TC.
 
user1804599
@Puppy with add
 
@Puppy No, that's a different one: github.com/xoreaxeaxeax/movfuscator
trapcc binaries can only run on bare metal
 

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