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00:00 - 14:0014:00 - 00:00

12:38 AM
I love the idea of a Canadian C++ compiler that apologies when it can't compile your code. https://twitter.com/tvaneerd/status/807001445912506368
 
1:11 AM
@Mysticial "Product Managers" ?
 
1:32 AM
@FioraAeterna C/C++ really need to just bite the bullet and require 2s complement ints, CHAR_BIT=8, and IEEE-754.
Thoughts?
 
#ArmWorldProblems
 
@Borgleader Agreed on 2's complement ints. Less on CHAR_BIT=8 and IEEE.
 
Ell
1:45 AM
Why twos compliment?
 
because it's sane
and common
 
TIL that sperm are shaped like pancakes
Its 7um wide but only 0.4 tall
I can't even
 
2:09 AM
@Mysticial I can see why one would disagree about IEEE but CHAR_BIT I'd like your explanation on that.
 
@Borgleader 8 bits is fairly arbitrary. It's 8 bits only because of the US alphabet. Had computers been developed in Asia, it'd be 16 bits. Many digital signal processors can't address less than 32 bits.
Although less of an issue nowadays with 64-bit pointers, having a larger base-type means you can address more memory for an address space.
The other thing is, I've never run into problems with CHAR_BIT. Whereas 2's complement is an issue all the time with signed integers and shit.
Same for not being able to assume IEEE.
 
What is the 2's complement issue?
 
I meant lack of.
 
What do you mean?
 
I do bitwise operations on signed integers all the time. And none of that would work without 2's complement.
 
2:14 AM
Yeah, so what is the issue?
 
The biggest one is perhaps overflow and right-shift being the floor function.
 
@Mysticial Same as is in "same its an issue all the time"? cuz earlier you said you disagreed with requiring IEEE
 
@Borgleader I disagreed about IEEE because if I personally would like a floating-point standard to have fewer exponent bits and a wider mantissa.
I don't see a need for the language to lock you down to one specification.
 
I see
 
2's complement seems a lot more natural than 8-bit chars and IEEE floats.
 
2:18 AM
Okay, but for real, what is this 2's complement stuff about?
I know what 2's complement is... but how does that have anything to do with C++?
 
My problem with "variable" CHAR_BIT is like... how the fuck do you program when you types can have very different ranges on different hardware.
 
The other thing with IEEE is that I see a potential for specification loopholes if you require IEEE and allow relaxed floating-point behavior. Since they seem to be conflicting goals.
 
Oh look char is 8 bits here, and 32 bits there... like huh, how do i pick which one i use? i mean... idk maybe its a non issue
 
Right now, relaxed floating-point is allowed since the language allows temporaries to have higher precision.
@Borgleader I'm talking about char as a minimum addressable unit. Not as a character string.
You'd still be using ints the whole time.
 
@Mysticial Me too
You either end up with a bunch of types that have the same size on a platform (that say, cant go below 32 bits) or all the sizes get shifted up
and im not sure which i like best if at all =/
 
2:24 AM
@Borgleader If I had to guess, if CHAR_BIT became 16 bits, the only that would break in my Pi program would be the UTF-8 strings. That's it. Nothing else relies on the size of the char.
 
@Mysticial I've seen a lot of code that would break because of masks that are 0xFF or 0xFF being used to set to -1. Of course you could argue that that is bad code, but hey, its out there.
 
I probably have some hard-coded sizes somewhere in the code. And some of the x86-specific intrinsic code might also break. But I don't consider those fundamental breaks.
 
I would also hate to modify single channel 8 bit textures in a language where char_bit is 16
 
What if renamed char to byte?
 
@Borgleader Come to think of it. Unless you're bit-shifting chars or reinterpreting them as wider types (in which case you violate strict-aliasing anyway), that might not be a fundamental break. The 8 bits of padding might "just work". Same with ASCII and UTF-8 code.
 
2:37 AM
Hmm, I have to go (5AM is early T_T) but I'll prob poke you about this later
 
eugh
RIP
 
3:16 AM
@Borgleader IEEE-754 is a tall order
...unless it's just the binary fp types from it.
 
3:49 AM
Hm. I rebooted my computer, gave it a few minutes, and it's already at 40% memory used before I even open chrome :/
 
Windows?
 
mostly dropbox
No one program is using more than ~1%, but there's so many of them. Chromex10, Drivex2, Windows Defender, COrtana, Google Music Manager, Windows Search, Microsoft Officex2, Nvidea x10, printers, Backups, OneDrive, Google Photos, VPN for work, Daemon tools,
 
Windows' MM probably leaves most process memory unpaged at startup, when there's little memory pressure.
 
I've found a new and fun way to procrastinate at work!
Trying to catch mice in a cardboard box.
 
is it this chat room
oh
glhf
wear gloves, maybe
 
4:03 AM
that'd have been wise...
I got lucky though. Didn't get bit.
Not going to miss this job...
 
you know what would be fun
 
@jaggedSpire videogames
programming
sleep
cats
 
storing mice in a vector
 
taking the shell of a computer mouse and giving it wheels
 
ooh
 
4:08 AM
@jaggedSpire anything but reviewing this paper
 
and then a little motor, and making it roll in some direction whenever anyone clicked a button
 
and then plugging it into other people's computers
@MooingDuck set it on fire
 
@Mysticial I don't think you can bit-shift a char. If you start with a char operand, the first thing that's going to happen is promotion to int.
 
pyromania is the cure for most strains of boredom
 
4:09 AM
The wheel would need to be on some kind of swinging axle so it's not in contact with the surface when the motor's not turning
 
@jaggedSpire Pyramania was a decent album, but not quite that good.
 
@JerryCoffin googles
 
@jaggedSpire Amen hallelujah. I have a blowtorch in the kitchen and i'm not afraid to use it... to make camembert brûlée
 
@jaggedSpire digital
 
this one?
@MooingDuck ...print it out and set the paper on fire?
 
4:31 AM
@jaggedSpire Looks right. I guess, depending on your taste, perhaps you'd prefer:
 
 
1 hour later…
5:53 AM
Morning...
-_-
 
@MarkGarcia I don't even understand what is the dude complaining about.
 
See the parent comments.
 
6:11 AM
brutal ...
 
@MarkGarcia delicious delicious butthurt
 
is that it doesn't exist yet?
 
@Telkitty -_-
is all I see
 
hand drawn car in drive section ...
 
-_-
 
6:21 AM
Google's car might not look modern, but at least it's solid. Tesla might have killed a person or two, at least it looks nice ...
Apple's car just ... it just ...
if only I could use words to describe void or null
 
@Telkitty -_-
I think that face describes it pretty well
in addition to bearing a remarkable resemblance to the front of the car
 
true true
and little cute apple nose
despite hand drawn
 
The official Bitcoin client wants 65 GB of disk space just to start working?
 
lol, you're mining?
 
6:46 AM
@wilx has to download the entire transaction history of every purchase ever made.
An irritating part of how it functions
 
means that it will keep on growing as long as there are new transactions?
 
That's awful.
 
Ven
hi
 
Xeo
7:21 AM
the wording of the answer is really bad! — Gab 9 hours ago
lol'd
 
Ven
8:02 AM
Piss Off 2011 Xeo With This One Weird Comment!
 
Ven
8:43 AM
Broke 1k rep on PPCG \o/.
 
ppcg?
 
PowerPoint Computer Graphics
 
Ven
@Rerito codegolf.SE
 
@MarkGarcia I like your trolling
 
user1804599
@Ell go is an interpreter step
 
user1804599
8:56 AM
RestrictedIOF is an algebra.
 
Ven
9:11 AM
@rightfold wtf is prefix x operator in Perl Oo.
I had no idea it existed.
 
Yay, no more old-style exception specifications in GCC7.
 
Has anyone ever used them?
 
Ven
alas
 
Yes, throw().
IIRC the empty throw() still exists but is equivalent to noexcept(true) to avoid breaking too much code.
But it's in annex D.
 
Ven
and no one wants the D?
 
9:21 AM
The D keeps getting bigger.
6
 
Oh that starbait
 
Ven
ah no it's just a perldebug command, mb
@Rerito yo oyoy
> Haskell, like Perl 6, is lazy!
@rightfold ^ LOL
 
So, what app do I use for Bitcoin wallet?
What do you guys use?
 
9:40 AM
good lord .io domains are not cheap :P
 
Ven
yeah think how many JavaScript stickers you could buy instead of that .io domain...
 
@Rerito I was trying to make it starbaity enough to be too obvious to get starts, but I failed :(
 
Ven
@Morwenn et vazi donne la moi
 
just looking to get a short domain name for myself...
something I can look to use for my own sexy shortened urls :P
bah
goo.gl will suffice
 
@thecoshman I'd say coshm.an or whatnot, but... "Local presence required" on Netherlands Antilles. :D
Could work with .mn.
 
9:48 AM
so
I've been tasked at work to pick a server for my team
should I contact Dell sales and ask for an overview?
 
lel - what kind of server
 
Ven
@sehe Lell*
 
:)
 
@sehe We mostly need it for vSphere
 
first step to picking a server, work out what it needs to do
 
9:50 AM
@thecoshman hipster isn't cheap
 
run machines
lots of them
 
IBM :p
 
it's for debug and development, not prod
 
@Griwes available...
 
So I'd say more powerful than more reliable.
 
9:52 AM
a constant number of VMs?
 
@MarkGarcia That doesn't really help, they sell tons of stuff
 
or will you be ramping up and down?
 
@thecoshman No, dynamically changing
 
any idea how many?
 
9:52 AM
is this for lan or wan
 
We shouldn't go over 30
 
how big do they each need to be
 
@thecoshman 2-4GB
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's not easy. I'd hunt for web success/sob stories. Things that are going to matter: ratio of physical vs. virtual CPUs and (important!!!) disk bandwidth. I've found that some guests need dedicated (raw) disks to get decent results, but (expensive?) NAS solutions might exist that remove the bottleneck
 
I was thinking 64GB RAM
 
9:53 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Don't skimp on backup though
 
well, work out what the average sort of specs for VM is, multiple by expected number
 
@BartekBanachewicz That sounds eerily low
 
@sehe we don't need that, we can thrash it and reprovision overnight really
All of our envs are vagrant environments that come and go daily
 
I don't think I've ever seen a HyperV/GSX server with that little memory
 
erm, well, about 30 vms at 4GB each, going to be tight with only 64 total
 
9:54 AM
@sehe mmm
 
@BartekBanachewicz Ok
 
@BartekBanachewicz very nice
why not consider two small host servers?
 
Why would two be better than 1?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Mmm. Maybe in 2006 not sure. It was either 24G or 96G. Maybe I'm misremembering
At the very least make it expandable :)
 
slightly more work to set up maybe, but means if one dies, you still have some capacity to do stuff
 
9:55 AM
@sehe oh sure
 
Are you going to be running your own server, or renting?
 
@thecoshman Yeah. The 2006 dev server must have been 24GiB. Wait a second I should have my specs in my mail backups
 
@Griwes €40.99/year well that was a nice idea
 
@thecoshman We want to buy it and put on-prem
mmm the web configurator suggested Dell T430, but that's a tad over budget
 
ah, well yeah, maybe work out the specs you want, and just call dell
 
9:58 AM
It seems that picking the CPU will be the hardest part
 
luckily, ram and hdd are easy to start conservatively and expand later if required
problem with cpu is that if you want to change it, old one is basically dead
 
hmm I could get a few SSDs in RAID
 
Why RAID
 
how much disk space does each server need?
 
You're right, I should educate myself first
 
10:02 AM
RAID seems to be important for H/A or increased bandwidth. H/A was not a goal and increased b/w unlikely for SSD
So RAID just slashes either capacity or MTBF
 
seeing as it's a test env and really easy to reproduce, I'd just have the drives setup in JBOD
 
Iff local
 
kinda like RAID, but basically just like the name says
you tak a bunch of drives, and say "this is one big drive"
 
@BartekBanachewicz And who's gonna manage it (do you have to go through IT for NAT, firewall, backup etc)
 
small drive for the host OS to sit in, then a big wall of JBOD for the VMs to sit in
@sehe it's for local testing from what I gathered, so not much needs to be sorted out
 
10:04 AM
@thecoshman The problem with that is that any control over disk speed in specific VM(s) is lost
Simple is good, but too simple leads to regret
@thecoshman Quite the opposite
 
@sehe We're prolly gonna ask our IT to set it up for us
they'll know way better how to do it network-wise
 
Do they charge for ongoing support? Better spec up that UPS too (especially if you RAID5)
 
no, we have our own IT team
 
Good for you :)
 
I don't think they would mind looking over one more server
 
10:06 AM
Oh simple things, where have you gone
 
Maybe I'll buy them a 6-pack or something
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well, better check than be surprised :)
@GillBates Just experience. In commercial environments simple gets replaced by accountability and forms.
 
Nah, I know these guys pretty well, we're already cooperating with them to get our 3D printer running, they're nice
 
'cos bottom-line
@R.MartinhoFernandes huh. The reason/explanation on this one is certainly too sketchy for me as a Dutch man
It seems they include "native" slurs but translated (without the original)? (Looking over some other races I recognize many but not in the English representation given. This proves nothing, of course. Could just be rare slurs)
 
user1804599
@Ven LOL
 
10:13 AM
@Ven FPs, like Einstein, are smart!
 
user1804599
@Ven No idea about x, but -x checks if file is executable.
 
Ven
@rightfold it was only in the debugger in the end. recursive print.
 
user1804599
hahaha what
 
user1804599
-x has lower precedence than binary +.
 
what does that mean. y + -x is a syntax error (two adjacent infix ops) or it's (obviously) y + (-x)?
Oh wait. THAT -x
 
Ven
10:24 AM
yah.
it does because you can write -x -e "foo"
 
@sehe "Pennsylvania Dutch" is a variety of German, not Dutch.
Pennsylvania German (Deitsch, Pennsylvania Deitsch, Pennsilfaanisch Deitsch, Hinterwäldler-Deutsch, listen ; usually called Pennsylvania Dutch) is a variety of West Central German spoken by the Amish and Old Order Mennonites in the United States and Canada, closely related to the Palatine dialects. There are possibly more than 300,000 native speakers in North America. It has traditionally been the language of the Pennsylvania Dutch, descendants of late 17th- and early 18th-century immigrants to Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia and North Carolina from southern Germany, eastern France (Alsace and...
(Bottom line: monoglots are idiots)
> Historically they have spoken the dialect of German known as Pennsylvania German or Pennsylvania Dutch. In this context, the word "Dutch" does not refer to the Dutch people (Nederlanders) or their descendants, but to Deitsch or Deutsch (German).
 
@Ven It's lacking the citations/references
@R.MartinhoFernandes still begs the question about the etymology, but at least that explains how I'd reasonably not be able to recognize its root
lol. Beautiful
> Es Guckbax iss voll mit schlechde Commercials un yeder Daag grick ich vier bis fimf Dinge vun Kandidaade in mei Mailbax. Nadierlich der Bresident Fecht iss heess. Der Donald un die Hillary sin wie zwee Kaader…allsfat am yammere un gratze. So die grosse Froog iss: in wem verdrauscht du aa? Die Republikaaner un die Demokraate saage ass ihre Kandidaat besser iss
 
> fimf
There's another popular spelling system which I think is more interesting.
 
There's an audio link for each blog item too
 
user1804599
10:41 AM
@sehe -x is an operator, if you want to negate x you must write - x.
 
Ven
thankfully there a few cases where you have a sub named x :P.
 
@Ven And a dom named y.
The joys of BDSM parties.
 
Ven
The non-joy*
 
 
1 hour later…
12:01 PM
This just in: the Lounge pronounced dead after an hour of inactivity.
 
busy making new youtube bird/wildlife videos
 
12:17 PM
 
Ven
@Griwes Day 37: the D jokes are not making it to the starboard anymore. People are asleep, or dead. No C++ spam for the past few days. No fluffs. No android questions. Send help.
6
 
internet hibernates in winter
 
Ven
do your chickens do? :P
 
12:34 PM
my chickens are doing fine, but their feed has been stolen by a wide variety of wildlife badly
magpies, pigeons, doves, cockatoos, possums, mynah birds and some bandicoots ...
 
user1804599
 
Ven
oldkcd
 
user1804599
@Ven lool this operator docs.perl6.org/routine/ff
 
Ven
@rightfold yes?
 
user1804599
I think Perl 5 had it too but it was called differently
 
Ven
12:46 PM
It's also in Perl 5 and AWK.
It's .. in 5.
 
user1804599
Yeah.
 
user1804599
Oh right, Perl 6 calls ASCII aliases of non-ASCII operators "Texas operators" because they're bigger.
 
Ven
yeah vOv
 
user1804599
-_-
 
Ven
\ best
 
user1804599
12:50 PM
 
user1804599
Perl 6 is awesome
 
Ven
lol
class Date
  def method_missing(m, *a, &b)
    self.format(m)
  end
end
;D
 
user1804599
XD
 
user1804599
This weeked I'll work on NHP again.
 
user1804599
Add namespaces and multiple files.
 
Ven
12:52 PM
use MONKEY-TYPING;
augment class Date {
  method FALLBACK($name, |) {
    self.format($name);
  }
}
easy to do in 6 as well...
 
user1804599
lol
 
user1804599
awful, monkey patching. PHP ftw
 
Ven
:)
Ruby, but with refinements being the only option to monkey patch. :P
.oO( Untyped C# )
 
nwp
@R.MartinhoFernandes In case you don't find a girl I can offer a couch and wlan for a bit. Wouldn't want you to actually become homeless.
 
user1804599
@Ven Groovy .NET
 
Ven
1:02 PM
@rightfold at least you can enable types in Groovy. Ruby on the other hand...
 
@nwp Well, I'm moving with my girlfriend this time.
 
user1804599
@Ven LiveScript .NET
 
nwp
you would need to snuggle a bit, but in theory it is intended for 2 people
 
Ven
@rightfold :/
 
user1804599
Live#
 
user1804599
1:06 PM
@Ven I have a difficult issue.
 
Ven
let me rubberduck you
I know you want the rubber D
 
@nwp We'll see how it turns out. Thanks.
 
user1804599
It captures everything by reference so that it supports recursion.
 
user1804599
But val can't be recursive, so val pi = pi refers to the outer pi.
 
Ven
1:12 PM
val only introduces the name after the ;?
 
user1804599
yes
 
Ven
:|
 
user1804599
So I just need alpha-renaming in case of shadowing I think.
 
Ven
I'm fairly unconvinced by that...
 
user1804599
I want it like Elixir.
 
user1804599
1:13 PM
And F#.
 
Ven
you can compile assignments as lambda calls vOv
 
user1804599
that generates awful code
 
Ven
yes
then just append a number to the variable name
 
user1804599
I know, I will add suffixes to Thing, and during code-gen append those suffixes.
 
user1804599
For local variables only. For class members and globals I need to retain the APHI.
 
Ven
1:17 PM
ya.
 
user1804599
But globals and members aren't captured anyway.
 
Ven
there's no conflict to be had there anyway.
 
user1804599
This also works already! \o/
 
user1804599
def getZero() = 0.0f;
def getGetZero() = getZero;
///////////////////////////
function getZero() { return 0.0; }
function getGetZero() { return 'getZero'; }
 
Ell
OneDrive is soo sloooow
 
1:21 PM
time to shamelessly promoting my latest feral bird video:
 
user1804599
git nas
 
Ell
I have to use my unis OneDrive so I can convert the lecture .ppts into .pdfs >.<
idk why the lecturer uploaded them in anything non-pdf in the first place
 
Ven
@rightfold why a string?
supposedly a name reference?
 
user1804599
@Ven That's how you return a global function in PHP.
 
user1804599
 
Ven
1:23 PM
or you could compile it to function (...$args) { getZero(...$args); }
 
user1804599
lol y
 
Ven
@rightfold I'm mostly thinking about namespaces tbh
 
user1804599
If the function is in a namespace it's supposed to be a fully-qualified string.
 
Ven
@rightfold i.e. 3v4l.org/K5aQI
ok. then it should work. still :P
 
I think we're gonna try to push for something like that
 
Ven
1:36 PM
Nie rozumiem po polsku.
 
@Ven oh c'mon the specs are pretty readable
 
Ven
they are. :P
IF YOU CAN READ POLISH.
 
10 core cpu @ 2.4GHz, 96GB RAM @ 2400Mhz, 3x120GB SSD
 
is bartek putting a rack server into his bedroom?
 
trying to sleep while the rack server is turned on always results in hilarious results
 
1:42 PM
@Griwes not sure what I would be supposed to do with that
compute Pi? :P
 
HELP MEEE GOD NOW I NEED OVERLOADIIING.
OOOHHH OOOUUH WHOOOOAAAAHH.
Anyways hi I'm going to implement overloading in a day EZ PZ.
 
Ven
do it
PogChamp
 
Xeo
rip
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz boring :P
 
no shit :P
actually maybe I'll turn on one of my physical servers
my digital ocean free credit has expired recently
 
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