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12:13 AM
@TonyTheLion dlkfa;a;lejfa;ekjfa;jfbsa; these furry little things :3
 
Ell
@rightfold free functor is coyoneda
 
meow
 
oh hat season started?
 
about 23 minutes ago, yes
 
12:44 AM
user image
6
 
> >MD5
> >encrypted
 
^
@Borgleader :D
 
12:58 AM
lol
 
1:10 AM
The sky is melting, the oceans are boiling, and I can't instantiate my constexpr object.
The world is doomed. Time to order pizza and watch football.
 
A+ reaction
what I should do next time the trees start melting into puddles of blood
 
Why football of all sports
Even snooker is better
 
1:50 AM
play sports, not watch them
 
Instead of doing research work on curing cancer, I spent the weekend crafting an almost functional widget in Qt.
Why is GUI programming so hard? And also why can't I find anybody in the USA who does it with C++?
 
Ell
gui does seem to be terrible
not sure why
 
2:15 AM
@Mikhail Hi.
I getting this error boost::thread_resource_error.
What does this mean?
 
@Mike Among other things it means you should use std::thread
 
@Mikhail i am using pthread.
 
No you ain't, your using boost to wrap your pthreads
 
pthread_t sniffer_thread;
		if (pthread_create(&sniffer_thread, NULL, &process_to_client,(void*) newsockfd) < 0) {
see.
this is in while run forever.
 
Okay then why the fuck are you asking about boost threads?
Anyways the question is kinda bullshit, try asking it at chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/116940/c-questions-and-answers
 
2:19 AM
Because after running few minute. its show this error.
@Mikhail don't use bad word. Not good.
7
@Mikhail pthread use boost library?
 
@Mikhail We're They're all in hiding.
 
from what?
 
2:34 AM
@JerryCoffin But for real, how do people write GUIs? Do we just call some outsourcing company in India to do it for us in Jawa?
 
@Telkitty The oopsie-guipsie enforcers.
@Mikhail Java would be just about my last choice for the job. Static typing and no syntax sugar. Pretty much the worst way to do a GUI. I'd probably use one of the Qt bindings for Python (still can't believe they named one "PyQt" instead of "QtPy").
As far as outsourcing to India goes: that depends heavily on schedule. At least in my experience, out-sourcing is only likely to work well if you have quite a loose schedule.
 
I've had the same problem with outsourcing, took them 7ish months.
I'm not lacking a framework, its just taking a long time. In principle I could do everything but that would take months.
Maybe WPF isn't a timepit?
@JerryCoffin Wait, what's wrong with static typing?
I think the problem is that I need to spend time drawing on pieces of paper to get the behavior of the widgets figured out. I want somebody to have figured this stuff out for me...
 
2:52 AM
@Mikhail Nothing, in general--but it's nearly impossible to model all the relationships between widgets via inheritance, so something on the order of duck typing tends to come in awfully handy (and while I haven't tried them for this, I can't imagine that Java's generics are up to the task).
 
@JerryCoffin Okay, so I assume you are gainfully employed as a software engineer. How the fuck do you guys write GUIs?
 
7-segment displays should be enough for everybody
 
10
 
@Mikhail I can only think of two things we've written recently that had GUIs. One used Qt. The other draws stuff in Python with MatPlotLib, some of which happen to be rectangles that react when clicked (but calling it a GUI is almost an over-statement--its complete UI consists of a couple of graphs + a half dozen or so buttons.
 
So, I'm about at that level. I can't figure out how to level up my game.
 
3:02 AM
most people use standard components for GUI
 
user406009
@Mikhail Depending on your needs, one approach for server like things is to have a web GUI.
 
user406009
At least that's what they did at the last place I worked.
 
you can customize those GUI components too
 
Unfortunately, I'm tied to C++ or something where I can share the OpenGL context.
I'm trying to write an OpenSource software similar to this
 
are you trying to cure cancer or are you writing software to describe cancer graphically?
 
user406009
3:07 AM
What issue were you running into with Qt?
 
and paraview and vtk are too heavy, and computationally inefficeint
I've found myself needing to craft a lot of Qt components by hand...
In addition to low level crap like standard QWidgets messing with the OGL context in wacky ways (i've worked my way through those)
 
user406009
@Mikhail For interest's sake, what other issues did you run into other than trying to do OpenGL calls not on the main thread?
 
In principle, GI work should not be on main thread
speaking of which I think I have been thrown out by an android room before, I can't remember which one though
 
@Lalaland They were related. For example, the wrapper doesn't have a correct sizeHint(). Or the OGL context is taken by the widget system during undocumented/poorly documented paint events that are called from the depths of the internal library in some Windows specific subsystem DLLs. Also low level crap included conflicting uses of COM with legacy libraries/ so that drag and drop crashes Qt.
 
I think I have even left a comment on their Github account
 
3:22 AM
Anyways, Qt has an architectural bug where there is no way to communicate the size of non-native widgets
There are like 10 bug reports about this but still no fucks given...
Also styling Qt can be hard because there are at least 3 ways to style widgets:
There is a CSS way to style, and a C++/function call way to style
Then you can make C++ function calls to write the CSS way, but these can get overridden by the underlying theme. The theme, "QT Fusion" is implemented as a bunch of mysterious function calls in some DLL.
 
@JerryCoffin this is because you are obviously vastly better at punning than they
 
3:41 AM
I am looking at some open source chatbots, do you think that I should steal create one for us?
 
Might be good to introduce a policy against chat bots
 
but then again I am lazy
.js
 
huh
lazy is pronounced lay-z
what
 
since it's hat season, I have been thinking ...
chat is c hat
c style hat, not c++
 
so
a ĉ
 
4:24 AM
@jaggedSpire Perhaps. At least to me, that one seemed so obvious it was essentially impossible to miss.
@jaggedSpire Yes. Rhymes with Jay-Z.
 
lol
 
C++ needs an special division operator like python, that doesn't fuck integer division. auto ratio = AnInteger//AnotherInteger
 
user406009
Eh, Python 3's division behavior wouldn't really work well in a statically typed language like C++.
 
Conceptually, no, but we should just have them result in a float, or a ratio object.
 
user406009
It would be very messy though.
 
4:29 AM
Well, you could have it result in a division object
 
user406009
People are going to ask whether or not the result will be float or double.
 
I know that
std::division_object<T1,T2>
For common types we can agree it will behave like an int/float/ whatever
 
user406009
Eh, IMHO that's worse than just doing (float) AnInteger / AnotherInteger.
 
user406009
At least (float) AnInteger / AnotherInteger is very obvious and clear.
 
@Lalaland In Pascal (definitely statically typed) / always produced a floating point result; if you wanted integer division, you used div.
 
4:34 AM
I like that a lot more, if you want integer division to result in an integer, you better have a really good reason to dump the remainder.
 
@Mikhail In find myself needing integer division more often than floating-point.
 
@Mysticial Yes, but there is some "unwritten" reason why you can dump the remainder. This should be explicit.
I typically want the ceiling of the result...
 
But I don't like C/C++'s behavior for signed integer division.
The one that I need is almost always Mathematica's definition.
 
Whats the difference?
 
When the divider is positive (which is the case for me in 99.9% of the cases), it floors the result rather than truncate.
 
4:39 AM
In computing, the modulo operation finds the remainder after division of one number by another (sometimes called modulus). Given two positive numbers, a (the dividend) and n (the divisor), a modulo n (abbreviated as a mod n) is the remainder of the Euclidean division of a by n. For example, the expression "5 mod 2" would evaluate to 1 because 5 divided by 2 leaves a quotient of 2 and a remainder of 1, while "9 mod 3" would evaluate to 0 because the division of 9 by 3 has a quotient of 3 and leaves a remainder of 0; there is nothing to subtract from 9 after multiplying 3 times 3. (Note that doing...
 
user406009
IIRC, the behavior used to be implementation defined for C and C++
 
Arithmetic right-shift behaves exactly as I need except for the IB part.
 
user406009
Which is just so horrible.
 
I’ve posted and used that article many times, I really like the graphic
 
@Mysticial Does floor have a computational cost? I don't actually know what the ALU/FPU does...
Basically we solve every problem by having the division operator return an object that is evaluated in whatever way you need to.
 
4:41 AM
@Mikhail SSE4.1 has a rounding instruction that lets you choose the direction. But that's not sufficient as a band-aid on top of a floating-point divide since you have two roundings which can purturb the result in the wrong direction.
Most of the integer division cases that I deal with involve splitting up a # of tasks among a number of resources (i.e. threads). So the most common operation I need is ceil(a/b).
In those cases, I'm only dealing with positive numbers. So C/C++ division works perfectly.
Furthermore, correctness of rounding isn't essential either.
But when I'm mapping a disk I/O address to a sector or a RAID lane, the division needs to be exact.
In those cases, I don't need signed support since all the addresses are positive.
 
So, in ceil(a/b) you need to cast one of them?
 
Offsets may be negative, but they turn positive after transforming them into physical addresses.
@Mikhail No. (a - 1) / b + 1
If a can be zero, then I use: (a + b - 1) / b
 
That sounds worse
At the end of the day you're doing terrible stuff because division is broken. Division is a different operation for different use cases.
 
@Mikhail But ceil((double)a/b) is incorrect.
It doesn't always give you the right answer.
 
Yeah, dude. I'm arguing that division is broken and you keep telling me about all the crazy, crazy stuff you're doing to coupe.
 
4:50 AM
Which is the crazy stuff? The applications? Or the tricks like (a - 1) / b + 1 ?
 
Tricks, and also errors with the ceil command doing a double round...
 
@Mysticial that sort of stuff is really annoying to review months or even years down the line
 
@LucDanton I agree, but unfortunately, the alternative doesn't work. So it's a good usecase for a comment.
Or an inline function named appropriately.
 
__fuck_it(a,b)
#define
 
@Mysticial writing a function goes without saying
 
user406009
4:53 AM
(a + b - 1) / b is much more obvious
 
overlfow
 
@Lalaland I use that often enough where it's obvious and I recognize it instantly.
@Mikhail Can't have your cake and eat it too. Fortunately, file offsets and task decomposition ids don't get anywhere near the 64-bit limit.
 
Just make a division object with well documented behavior
result.roundUp(), result.roundDown()
 
From a performance perspective, if the divider isn't a compile-time constant, you're fucked.
It's much worse than floating-point division, since the hardware needs to do extra shit to make it round/truncate correctly.
Come to think of it, I don't think that reasoning is correct.
The floating-point divide instruction rounds correctly all the time.
Integer division is slower probably because it has 64 bits of precision as opposed to 53 for DP.
 
std::vector<Fuck>::iterator it
 
5:14 AM
I wouldn't fuck a vector with stds
10
 
5:29 AM
beautiful
 
Ven
5:43 AM
Hi
 
Hey!
 
Ven
How r y'all?
 
I'm all right
you?
 
6:33 AM
$ sour
zsh: command not found: sour
how do you think that makes me feel
 
6:50 AM
I know!
It makes you determined doesn't it
that is definitely the emotion you were referring to
I am a genius
 
7:38 AM
his mustache curls and uncurls as he talks
 
8:33 AM
for someone who makes a big deal of generic programming, I certainly write a lot more the b version over the a version. what do I make of that, treat rvalue-ref members as pathological while hypocritically using std::tuple<…> with rvalue-refs still? cc @Xeo
(I don’t like the a version because of the redundancy, every time I review I have to double-check that the right type is being used for forwarding)
 
Cheap Air flight prediction app has raised 60 mln .. and it's quite profitable. it charges 5 $ per "cheap" flight ticket..
http://venturebeat.com/2016/12/15/airfare-prediction-app-hopper-raises-61-2-million-to-go-global/
 
8:52 AM
Happy hat hunting
 
finally found out what makes our typescript build at work slow
19.5 seconds to run, 12.5 seconds writing out the output files
use a single output file, 0.23 seconds
 
Somebody help me to get jump into running process?
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Feels to me like the forwarding logic should reside within generic_data
 
@Puppy the 12.5 sec counts in the 19.5 or it adds up
 
counts in
 
9:01 AM
@xeo My application running. But i want to jump back into to the process linux. How to do that?
 
so how much does the build actually runs? 7sec
 
Xeo
Don't randomly ping people. If they want to help you, they will tell you.
 
@LucDanton Don't pass in explicit arguments for perfect forwarding?
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix yep
 
Xeo
@LucDanton (Remember my perfect_storage thingy?)
 
Not that bad, I think I had worse bundling simple javascript into javascript
you're not compressing minimizing optimizing etc?
 
9:03 AM
nope
that's literally just I/O.
 
@Xeo well, typically the non-member functions are part of the API
 
well might be somewhat slow but not that bad. I'd be happy if the server I work on booted up in that much time
It's depressing when you fix something in 1 minutes or less but have to wait around 5 to 10 min to actually see if it works
 
@Xeo I did not select random. Your profile is very good.
 
Xeo
I don't care
@LucDanton I just meant the one I wrote and linked in here, sometime ago
 
@Xeo dunno where and when that took place, but I feel like you’re missing the point
you don’t want me to replace Var generic_member; by something_or_other<Var> generic_member;, do you?
 
9:14 AM
@набиячлэвэли heyo, been afk most weekend (gigidty) so only just getting chance to look at github :P
 
9:31 AM
@gnzlbg as luck would have it, I remembered I had a Forwardable concept around. Although I needed it for the opposite situation i.e. construction, it’s a close match still. it’s certainly given me more food for thought, I’m considering something like the following
 
lol, trying to install rust dev packages at work.. taking ages just to connect to the package servers :P
@набиячлэвэли hmm... what version rustc you using? I installed it there in this vm and it pulled 1.10 and then 'calp' seems to have a compilation error...
 
Ell
okay I have 2.25 hours
 
Ven
10:08 AM
@jaggedSpire better now that i've slept!
 
According to this study gov.uk/government/publications/…, cotton bags require over 300 uses to offset their production and distribution footprint and become "greener" than plastic ones. This means that if you're not going to hold on to and use that cotton grocery bag every week for four years, you're better off getting a plastic bag and recycling it.
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes :<
 
At my place, we have accumulated some ten such bags, which means I should have enough bags to last me a lifetime.
 
nwp
@R.MartinhoFernandes That assumes that plastic bags will not be reused?
 
just go to the store more often, duh
 
10:21 AM
@nwp That value is without reuse of the plastic bags, yeah.
> **Without secondary use** the global warming potential of the convent ional HDPE bags required to achieve the reference flow increased to 2.08 kg CO2 eq.
This reduced the number of times the heavier bags needed to be used to drop below this baseline to 3 uses for the paper bag, 4 uses for the LDPE bag, 11 uses for the PP bag and 131 uses for the cotton bag. However, if all conventional HDPE bags were reused as bin liners the number of uses would rise to 7 for the paper bag, 9 for the LDPE bag, 26 for the PP bag and 327 for the cotton bag.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes is that factoring in things like damage to wildlife?
 
@nwp Sorry, I meant with.
Without it's still 131 (two years)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, 131 usages...
 
@thecoshman Two years at ~1.5 shopping trips per week.
 
10:28 AM
I think it's a fair estimate.
 
that's not that muhc shopping imo
Those 're-usable' bags also tend to hold more
but hey, I use a back pack for the most part
my last one lasted for about ten years I think... I just got bored of it so got a new one :P
 
@thecoshman You mean the big ones?
I guess they hold as much as the big plastic ones.
 
The big ones indeed
 
@thecoshman Only toxicity and shit.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes so erm... yes?
 
10:31 AM
Not things like getting trapped and whatnot, but I guess that happens as well with cotton.
 
but I think cotton rots away 'properly', whilst plastic just breaks down into small and small bits
 
Yay. The "I hate hats" link still works without a nag
 
I think I should re-boot... my computer is slow as tar
 
nwp
tar isn't that slow, just leave out the v option
 
@thecoshman Biodegradable plastics are a thing.
However...
> For the impacts categories considered, the HDPE bag with prodegradant additives increased the environmental impacts from those of the conventional HDPE bag.
FWIW, I think we'll soon be at a point where it's justifiable to minimize carbon footprint at the expense of some seagulls.
 
10:39 AM
seagulls are either not the best animals you could have picked to make your point, or they are
 
oh no, not the boobies :(
4
 
sigh
 
Also, it appears that goods send by ship can be massively better in that respect than goods sent by land. E.g. this study researcharchive.lincoln.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10182/4317/… found out that lamb from New Zealand, shipped 17000km+ to England, has a smaller carbon footprint than lamb from the UK.
 
11:03 AM
Ah. Gotta love the sudden parse error when you typo the name of a function template. sigh
Ambiguous grammars are the worst.
 
11:32 AM
@Griwes Man, wtf is going on in Poland?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Turkey.
Kind of.
Brace for something very similar in the US, though. :P
 
but thanksgiving already passed?
next year maybe
 
That's the worst joke I've heard today.
:P
 
the day is not yet over so that may not be as bad as it sounds
 
I've heard my dad's just-after-waking-up attempts at making a joke today.
Can't get much lower.
 
nwp
11:48 AM
I'm so exhausted from doing nothing all weekend.
Maybe I should start drinking coffee or something.
 
12:00 PM
@Griwes best get a sheep dog to round it up
 
C++17 deprecated stossc
 
the hell is stossc
 
^
 
@Griwes Can you guess?
I think it's an easy one.
Well, at least guessing where it belongs to.
It's clearly something in streambuf.
What else, right?
 
> basic_streambuf::stossc
Move past the current element in the stream.
> Remarks
The member function calls sbumpc. Note that an implementation is not required to supply this member function.
(...quoting MSDN which is the first thing that came up.)
 
12:12 PM
It's the same as sbumpc, but discarding the result.
 
-.-
 
Because C++ doesn't have a good way to call functions while discarding their results.
Duh.
 
The names make it so obvious.
 
cppreference lists it as deprecated but without link.
 
12:28 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes (void)fn()
 
@набиячлэвэли thank you for your insight
 
Ell
@набиячлэвэли whoosh
 
12:47 PM
I hate reading depressing novels, but I have already started this one and it's a good novel. Partly I am hooked, partly I don't want to read because it depresses me.
 
@thecoshman newest (1.13.0), use rustup.rs
 
1:10 PM
@набиячлэвэли yeah, I'll try that at home, this VM is struggerling to get through network issues ¬_¬
 
Programming in OCaml is getting to me.
Sometimes, I need to go back and add some extra information a function needs to do something, like e.g. for codegen.
So I try to go back and do that.
Then I realize that I have to start returning more crap too, because all changes done are immutable to the data structure I applied them on.
So now I have these functions where I'm taking 5, 6, 7 parameters (and counting), and if I have to modify even a single one in a call much further down in my callstack of codegen or otherwise,
I have to generate a new value, and then return it, and then modify the fifty functions and bajillion lines of code to handle that change.
Is there a way to make this constant propogation of immutable things less... painful?
Having to take, return, and then modify the usage sit of every function to include + 1 more parameter is kind of annoying, especially in the face of records also holding to this same immutability and thing.a = new_value; not being a thing I'm allowed to do without declaring the whole structure... mutable.
 
nwp
make a map/list/kv-store named universe or state and pass that to every function and have every function return the modified universe
 
.... Yeah, that's it. I'll just declare every field in my record mutable.
 
nwp
and lose the advantages of FP in the process
 
Okay, well.
I'm not multithreading anything
and I'm not dealing with concurrency or parallelism any time soon
 
nwp
1:25 PM
Why can't recursive lambdas just work? -.-
I even explicitly specified the return type.
 
So I really don't see how I'm gaining any advantage for something that's constantly requiring me to
{
    a = new_a;
    b = old_b;
    c = old_c;
    d = old_d;
    e = old_e;
    (* This goes on for some 8 more fields *)
}
Maybe I can write a function that updates a single field or a few fields at a time for when I need to? That might be less of a headache.
 
nwp
hence the list, where you say something like l = old_l[except a = new_a]
 
I don't think OCaml has that syntax... does Haskell?
I don't see anything like it in this OCaml reference... goddamnit that would save me
So much fucking effort.
 
8k bit key ¬_¬ yes, yes I do feel this not enough
 
1:34 PM
@ThePhD { expr with field1 = expr1 ; … ; fieldn = exprn }
2
 
@CatPlusPlus Holy shit you're right
HALLELUJAH
Of course this isn't mentioned in the lectures notes...
Why did I even bother reading the lectures notes.
There, that's where it is in the Real World OCaml tutorial.
Shit, this'll save my buckets of time.
 
@ThePhD Sounds like any textbook state monad motivating example.
 
1:58 PM
@набиячлэвэли what testing can be added to help verify pull requests don't break stuff?
open rhetorical question really, just consider them features to add :P
 
2:25 PM
Fuck, it's -1F outside. And I have to go work. (-1F is -18C)
 
thanks
 
you welcome
 
You know your scale is stupid when you automatically convert to a system people know
 
^^^ aaaaiiight
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
^ @wilx
 
@rightfold :D
 
> OSS should support a welcoming environment. this code is hosted on github, after all.
That someone probably wrote that comment from a Linux. :D
that butthurt in the comments xD
 
user1804599
2:56 PM
@Griwes XD
 
Quick, someone write a PR for replacing Make with MSBuild
that said, calling Make "sensible"...
 
@milleniumbug kek
 
@набиячлэвэли Ne idea for a project... not sure what it'll do... some sort of gating system for something... but it'll be called Sphincter
 
nwp
@thecoshman It will only produce shit, don't do it.
 
well, actually, there are many sphincters in the body, only you are, as could be expected, obsessed with the rectum
 
nwp
3:08 PM
being readily accessible can be an advantage
 
Contains 100% of your recommended daily allowance!
9
 
@nwp lol, "Sphincter, a readily accessible build system that has the only draw back of mostly producing shit"
You know, it would be a lot nicer if more tools had an option to invalidate a users password so that they have to reset it next time
 
> Ça fait 10,60 euros d'augmentation par mois, soit quand même 53 pains aux chocolats.
 
@LucDanton Chocolatines*
 
nwp
@thecoshman Here is what our customers say: Jenna K. from Alabama: "After the initial pain it feels good to use it."
 
 
1 hour later…
4:39 PM
@Mysticial that's the only advantage working from home. They announce -30Celcius tomorrow here, but I'll still have to refill my coffee stash.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix I get distracted when I work from home. Likewise, I'm not sure I can get the clearance to do that anyway. My solution is to move closer to work.
 
I understand that
Unfotrunately for me, home is the closest I can realistically get to work.
 
Kill me.
Alright. I'm going to cut structs from my language, but make it so I can return functions and other things.
This also means I lose the ability to dynamically allocate memory, so that kind of sucks a lot, but.
 
lol
 
Constructors and Destructors and Member Functions and space layouts are a bit too much to handle right now, since I'm doing this solo.
The good news is my SemAST seems to have everything I need, which is a breath of fresh fucking air.
 
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