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3:11 AM
I wrote this FRP-style Property class that automatically emits a signal when its updated. Thus when a user sets a property, it will emit a signal that in turn updates some Data. The Data is also operated on in tandem by a Worker, which also causes the Property to be updated. Which emits another signal. Which applies the update that just happened with a delay.... FML
 
that if statement never gets triggered
I was curious because the context of the advice was casting within same types (hence comparing typeid being equal).
not upcasting or downcasting
 
@Rapptz The program doesn’t compile.
 
if you remove the if you remove the compile-time error and add something else to the body the if statement will never trigger at runtime
I see your point but we were discussing same-type-casting through type erasure :s
 
Ugh
Freaking projects suck when you're not doing anything.
"Working with graphene RF detectors" sounds really nice, right?
Under a PhD and grad. student, etc etc etc
 
3:22 AM
@Rapptz I was misled by the 'always'.
@Rapptz I don’t follow.
If I remove the if statement then presumably it has no body to begin with?
 
nvm I'm being dumb
I should probably replace typeid with something else.
 
@Prismatic Could we get friends somehow, lazy Leopard? Otherwise I'd pee on you :-P ...
 
I don't want the polymorphic behaviour or name().
 
@Rapptz Need a dragon swat?
 
?
I don't know what's up with my obsession with type erasure lately.
 
3:28 AM
^ Just joking ...
 
I barely use it.
 
@Rapptz Mixing ranges made me okay with my reinventing Boost.TE. It helps that I didn’t spent too much time on the thing.
 
I am attempting to link a program with 'pdcurses' for Windows, which mostly progressed without errors with MSVC, except for the redefinition of '__time64', which stops the linking process.
 
how'd you do Boost.TE?
The hardest part I can think of is that transparent reference thing it does
 
I don’t actually know the full set of features it supports. I cribbed the general 'declare an interface like so and so and the boilerplate is filled for you' idea.
So if you want the any<…> to hold a reference then you have to put a reference wrapper in it.
 
3:31 AM
At the moment, I cannot find the conflicting library ('LIBCMT.lib') which is causing this conflict. Any ideas on resolving this linking issue?
 
user3010322
HLSL is a mess.
 
@LucDanton don't know if I misread the docs but any<..> can convert to the type erased type.
or tries to
idr
 
aren't double underscore variable names reserved
 
yes
 
@Rapptz As in you add a 'facet' whatever to enable a conversion operator on the specialization?
 
3:36 AM
I guess
like having incrementable<> as a concept allows you to use operator++ on it or something
not sure how2magic that
 
You can maybe do the same, one of the customization hooks I left is a mixin-like backdoor.
 
any<
    mpl::vector<
        copy_constructible<>,
        typeid_<>,
        incrementable<>,
        ostreamable<>
    >
> x(10);
++x;
std::cout << x << std::endl; // prints 11
 
I haven’t really tried it though, I’m happy to stick to named functions.
 
that magic right there
 
Oh right, I have a thing for std::function<Sig>-like behaviour. So if it works for operator() I figure it can work for other stuff, too.
 
3:39 AM
I thought of cool ways to convert any to T& but none worked
 
As in writing your facet or however it’s called?
 
not using Boost.TE
I mean in general
 
I don’t get it. Isn’t target erasure 101?
or unerasure I guess
 
is it
then I must be at class 98
oh I missed an important step
I meant implicitly not explicitly
 
Then name it operator T& instead of target
 
3:42 AM
not sure that'd work very well
I guess I was thinking more intelligently rather than hastily.
 
If it doesn’t, then the difference is more than just implicit vs explicit.
 
well you can implicitly convert to anything and crash and burn but that doesn't seem like a great idea :v
 
1 min ago, by Luc Danton
If it doesn’t, then the difference is more than just implicit vs explicit.
Then what is it that you want?
What T is that in T&?
Is some_any_spec a = "hello"s; int& i = a; the sort of stuff you’re after?
 
Nop
Sorry I thought I mentioned earlier T was the type erased type
I tried many clever tricks but I can't fuck with the type system that much
 
Well, have a look at dependent types then.
 
3:47 AM
yeah that was one of my attempts
didn't know how to make it work in my favour though
 
… in C++?
 
:v
yes
 
Sort of the C++ part being a quasi-compiler for a DTed system, you’re fucked.
 
@LucDanton s/Sort/Short?
 
can't say I succeeded
I'm bored
 
3:51 AM
that was supposed to be 'Short of'
 
2 mins ago, by Borgleader
@LucDanton s/Sort/Short?
boost.te has a type safe printf example
but I can't see why you'd use boost.te for it
I guess it's cleaner than fucking around with tuples
 
@Rapptz One of the tutorial papers that started to make DT click for me was a safe serialization/deserialization example.
 
I have to do stupid windows key + n and then keep doing it to alternate
 
user3010322
4:07 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit awdawdwakdw char* for data :((
 
std::less<T*> works for function pointers too right?
 
@Rapptz dunno, better check
 
> For templates greater, less, greater_equal, and less_equal, the specializations for any pointer type yield a total order, even if the built-in operators <, >, <=, >= do not.
is the only thing it says
I'm going to guess 'any pointer type' includes function pointers
 
You could double check :) It’s in types, right after the basic stuff.
Composites perhaps? Pointers are a composite type anyway.
 
4:12 AM
 
I'm thinking it's legal
 
mmmm, dinner
 
4:26 AM
@Cinch Looks yummy! What is it in particular?
 
4:37 AM
Macaroni, Chicken, Rice and Cabbage?
 
@πάνταῥεῖ BBQ Chicken, Macaroni Salas (w/ mayonnaise), Rice, and Cabbage Shavings
Product of L&L
(also featured in Las Vegas, where many Hawaii residents like to emigrate)
#platelunchftw
@Rapptz OF COURSE IT'S LEGAL this food is excellent
 
4:52 AM
I played Insurgency again yesterday
Was fun.
There was a guy that went like "allah hu akbar" in my team and someone responded with "wrong team you stupid fuck" and I laughed pretty hard (we were marines)
 
@Rapptz ugh more fps
 
Insurgency is gr8
 
I'm sort of against FPS merely because of CoD.
 
lmao
 
CoD is good. It's just it's been overdone over and over again.
I mean, I used to play Combat Arms and have played a lot of stuff.
I think Battlefield is an awesome game.
 
4:56 AM
Insurgency is not really close to CoD/Battlefield
it's an objective based shooter
killing comes second to the objective
 
@Rapptz It's just I really don't care about the genre unless it can manage to do more than just have guns and stuff I guess.
It does seem interesting.
 
I wanna post on /r/gamesale but I'm afraid of getting scammed
I wanna get Witcher 3 off someone for $30
 
I guess I'm all into the fantasy thing where I'm like, "I'm going to shoot a metal cablewire to come rappel and use a force field to stop your bullets and then electrocute the air to make your tank's oil supply explode."
 
do you have a Wii U
 
"And then I'm going to teleport and shank your people while your other superhero's gonna come and fight me too"
@Rapptz No.
I don't own consoles.
 
5:31 AM
Holy smokes
I hate spiders
 
 
1 hour later…
6:48 AM
Hey, what formatting do we use for engineering?
MLA, APA, CMS?
 
Depends on the department and journal.
 
@SeçkinSavaşçı lol it's an undergrad response paper to a project we did
Bah ima just use MLA since that's what I know. I don't think he cares too much
 
If I were you, I would find the department style guidelines for thesiswork.
 
7:08 AM
@Rapptz :D
 
@SeçkinSavaşçı Meh.
 
@Cinch I hope you will use Latex.
 
@SeçkinSavaşçı No. I'm pretty sure they don't care at this point.
I'm at a 4-year, but a pretty... bohunk 4-year for undergrads?
It's a sophomore paper. It's not even a paper, it's a response piece.
2 pages lol
 
I just had to help someone fix the page numbering of their bachelor's thesis in MS Word. fun.
 
But I guess that would be important for senior/junior/graduate level work.
@melak47 They have theses for bachelor's?
I mean we have a senior project and stuff but eh...
 
7:12 AM
we do here (Germany), dunno about the rest of the world :p
 
@Cinch Start using latex as early as possible. It will ease your job a lot compared to WYSIWYG editors.
 
@melak47 ...Now that I think about it, I should probably try to apply to internships internationally.
@SeçkinSavaşçı Well, I can use Markdown.
 
and then render to html? :D
then to jpeg, then to pdf, then fax it
 
@melak47 Well panda can do that right?
or something like that, whatever.
Actually, I'm not sure what to do this summer.
I'm too young to participate in Google SoC
Couldn't even apply to the big companies.
 
hello there
 
7:22 AM
@Rapptz who's going to sell witcher 2 days before it unlocks?
 
a lot of people have
 
why :o
 
nvidia promotion
 
buy an nvidia card and return it, minus the game key :p
 
is witcher 3 going to be released for linux?
 
7:27 AM
not on the 19th. dunno if ever.
 
7:43 AM
Anybody tried the new VS stuff for Linux?
Gentoo is having linking problems running it
 
the text editor thing?
 
Maybe, I was just poking around
A text editor that can open .sln is also fine
 
could you be more specific about the "stuff" you mean? VS Code open's .sln files as XML for me :p
 
The dream was to open a VS .sln and have it build with GCC, looks like we can't do that yet
 
VS Code is pretty much just sublime text on valium :p
 
7:48 AM
I would assume valium makes things worse?
 
I was trying to say that its not very good, yes
 
What about VS2015, do all my constexpr dreams come true?
 
maybe
though right now it doesn't look like it
 
lol Visual Studio
Btw does anyone know hth the Rasp. Pi can run Windows 10?
 
well they already target ARM, so stripping out enough crap to run on that should only be moderately difficult :p
 
7:58 AM
why would you run windows 10 on raspi?
 
because you can! :p
 
not a good reason
 
Yeah, but can you run anything?
 
I'm going to buy a Raspberry Pi 2 and an Arduino for engineering
It's about time I start doing.
 
buy arduino
you dont need raspi for engineering
 
7:59 AM
Also go buy a project idea
Can somebody recommend electroswing music?
 
I don't even know what that is, so no
 
sounds smart though
 
@khajvah Uh dude.
Although I might be a computer engineer I have a strong interest in software.
 
software>hardware
 
One of my ideas is to create my own computer from more basic components and then implement a programming language on it.
That way I'll be able to demonstrate I have a hard grasp on the skills needed to produce firmware (maybe?)
 
8:12 AM
@Cinch If you really want to do this, get an FPGA kit. You can program up a CPU in VHDL or Verilog, then implement a language of your choice on it.
 
@JerryCoffin Honestly, I don't know if I'm even ready for that.
 
@Cinch I imagine, that is gonna be hard goal to achieve
 
I think I'll do that after my next digital design class.
I had this heavily-accented Chinese teacher who was kind of lazy this semseter. He was okay but the lab and class were disorganized and disjointed.
Like, "Okay here's VHDL."
"What?"
"Yeah okay. Now we'll talk about RAM."
"But what about VHDL?"
...
Friend: "Oh yeah we use Verilog in the next class."
"Do they even have VHDL on my final?"
"No"
@JerryCoffin But thanks. I wasn't even aware these existed.
 
first rule of college: if it is not in the final, you don't learn it.
 
@khajvah ikr
Our final was... hm...
One was to create a Mealy state diagram from a circuit diagram
 
On the other finals, one of them had a diagram of a binary counter and told them to create a modulo-48 counter.
The answer was drawing one line.
Or two.
 
lol
 
Thats why I'm in Physics
 
The answer was that if you have a 128 counter, you tie the 32 and 16 bits together to the reset
@Mikhail What do they even do?
 
Maths>Physics
 
8:17 AM
Like, what kinds of jobs do you get?
 
@Cinch Well, you can build rockets in NASA
which seems interesting
 
Idk why I'd hire a mathematician besides for cryptology, maybe space calculations, programming models, and etc.
 
> space calculations
 
My friend who's double majoring in EE and Math says that his EE classes are harder.
 
but that's physics! :D
 
8:19 AM
I've had bad experience working with Mathematicians, they give me general cases when I want solutions
 
@melak47 What do you guys even learn?
 
@Cinch because your math department is shit
 
Kinematics, electrophysics, quantum.
 
I'm in CS :p
 
@khajvah Meh. Probably.
@melak47 Comp Eng. > CS
XD
 
8:20 AM
seriously, at this level, there are not "easier" or "harder" subjects.
 
@khajvah lol, math is definitely harder, physics somewhat harder
 
depends on who the teacher is
 
Well, I'm considering switching to EE/Systems
 
Seriously? Math is a harder field...
 
@Mikhail Drop some topics on me, please.
You guys talk about "harder" and I don't hear any names
 
8:21 AM
@Mikhail It might be but in undergraduate level, you don't study crazy stuff
 
@khajvah No, engineering > American Studies.
 
@khajvah Umm, I'm talking about academia, I'm no longer in undergraduate
 
@Mikhail We are undergrads.
 
@Cinch grow up
 
college is undergrad level
 
8:22 AM
@Mikhail I'm 17. What do you expect?
 
today I made an image sampler
 
@orlp From what?
For what?
 
from images
:p
 
23
Q: Draw an Image as a Voronoi Map

Martin BüttnerCredits to Calvin's Hobbies for nudging my challenge idea in the right direction. Consider a set of points in the plane, which we will call sites, and associate a colour with each site. Now you can paint the entire plane by colouring each point with the colour of the closest site. This is called...

 
@melak47 So it takes pixels or something every X stuff?
 
8:24 AM
still have to finish
@Cinch much more complicated
@Cinch click on the picture - every dot is one sample
@Cinch it detects where it needs to sample a lot, and where it doesn't need to sample as much
 
@orlp Oh it's a Voronoi Map.
 
@orlp overall I'd say it needs more samples! :p
 
@orlp interesting
 
8:39 AM
Hi
 
hello
 
You guys missed me?
I missed you guys :)
 
Cinch did miss you
was talking about you all the time
 
@orlp it's a bear!
 
8:56 AM
@Coldplay I'm not the scientist on the matter but all the clocks say it's time to hear you now.
 
What are the techniques to optimize IO? I'm dumping files using libtiff with a producer consumer, where the consumer writes files. How can I make it go faster?
 
@Mikhail maybe alignment??...
JIT instructions?
i.e. compile file changes into an intermediate format and have a thread write the changes?
 
9:12 AM
How do I make that thread faster
 
@Mikhail Well, from what I've heard, I/O is a gated operation. It's already much slower than internal calculations and the CPU itself waits from read/write operations. If the computer writers in words, then maybe you need to align writes to a word
i.e. a struct that is 65 bytes wide will garner two writes on a 64-byte wide write
 
FILE_FLAG_NO_BUFFERING seems to be the best I can do, but OS start/end time is contributing to latency. I wonder if there is a way to tell the OS exactly how many files, and the bandwidth I plan on using...
 
@Mikhail bandwidth?
wtf?
Bandwidth? I thought you're doing Read/Write?
 
@Mikhail The best way to improve IO is to not write as much :) (e.g. using compressed formats or stuff). Also, changing buffer sizes or using memory-mapped files are the usual answers to this question, which may or may not improve performance, depending on your scenario.
@Cinch Yeah, and you can measure read/write time by measuring throughput.
 
@milleniumbug "Bandwidth," to me, has nothing to do with I/O unless its EM transmission
Does it?
 
9:16 AM
@Mikhail maybe you could try something crazy like dumping all the stuff to one huge preallocated file, then split them afterwards :D
 
@milleniumbug Hmm, don't memory mapped files require an extract copy? I compared Boost to just dumping them using FILE_FLAG_NO_BUFFERING boost lost...
 
@khajvah Oh, I see now.
Silly EE/CompE
I'm considering going into Systems
 
what you mean by systems?
 
I have this feeling that WriteFile comes with an extra allocations if certain conditions aren't met...
 
9:19 AM
@khajvah That's what they call the track at my school
"Math," they say
 
@Mikhail dunno, I'm just spitting out keywords :P
 
I wish my university was MIT
> One quiz: in class
> No final, but project and project conferences
 
Ohhhh, so FPGAs are just PROMs unlimited
 
Ell
@Cinch programmable read only memory?
They ain't that at all
 
@Ell No what I mean is that supposedly their units hold a "logic look-up table," a flip-flop, and a "pass-through" bit or something
 
9:32 AM
I just woke up after 16 hours of sleep. Wtf. 17h32 here.
 
Ell
@Cicada well done
I just woke up after 10 hours of sleep
 
I'm still awake
 
@Cicada googe morning
 
But then again it's only 11:33pm
 
I had 10 hours last night
but I slept around 12 midnight so did not wake up too late
 
9:34 AM
Waaaaahhh why can't we have async reads?
 
uh?
 
@Ell Same here give or take
 
If only you could async read and write with physical locks
With different rams
 
Cinch pls
 
lol @cinch, why can't you have async read?
 
9:37 AM
@chmod711telkitty lol I'm just talking
 
trolling you mean?
 
But isn't there some sort of prohibition against async write and read if there's only 1 ram bus or something?
like if I have a multicore system but only 1 R/W line async is pretty... useless.
 
next topic: deadlock with 1 thread program
 
what is going on here?
 
@khajvah I'm being an idiot
 
9:40 AM
as opposed to any other time?
 
@Puppy Exactly, I am the idiot.
I am always the being idiot
amirite or Am I right?
(or left?)
 
certainly somethin
 
Don't listen to puppy
 
@khajvah But his profile picture is too damn cute.
 
Ell
I think I'll make pancakes for breakfast
 
9:44 AM
anybody want to give me a copy of PVS studio?
 
oh did you unplonk me khajvah?
 
Anyways, I'm trying to reconcile my basic digital design knowledge with async I/O.
 
Basic is kind of a grandiose word for "inexistent".
 
Like, isn't there a way to split ram so that we can have async R/W? Like, even if we have one processor, can't we have it queue up writes to different R/W pipelines?
 
9:48 AM
What the fuck
That's not I/O
 
@Cicada I mean RAM I/O, sorry.
Or R/W
I mean, if I can create a wire that can send the same signal to multiple gates, why can't I have a processor write to multiple RAM partitions at once?
 
because parallel buses are bitches to get right and you can issue more serial writes in the same time.
 
What's a "RAM partition"
 
@Cicada Say I have a piece of RAM.
 
"RAM I/O" is already reasonably asynchronous because processors have pipelines
 
9:51 AM
@Cicada But don't they usually have to wait?
 
But if you manage to get the processor to a stall then it does behave as synchronous
 
Ell
They're called "slices". Like "can I have a slice of ram? Just a small one, I'm watching my weight."
Joking :P
 
@Cinch Typically no
 
cinch seems to be really confused
 
Cinch is the embodiment of confusion
 
9:53 AM
@Cicada Wait what?
 
CPUs do their best to hide RAM requests latency
That's what their whole design is for you know
 
DDR4 runs at a max of 3200 MHz?
 
Pipelines, caches, etc
 
i7 runs at Ghz?
 
that was completely irrelevant
 
9:54 AM
Look, usually read can be async, but write is synced.
 
CPU writes are typically "async" and batched together by the write buffer
 
read is required to be synced when it has to be updated to the latest value
 
This asynchronism is why we need fences and such
 
@chmod711telkitty it depends on the design decision, even if it is widely used today. There are alternatives to that behaviour.
 
@Cicada "write buffer" Hm?
Why can't we have more than 1?
 
9:56 AM
There are more than 1
 
@Cinch it is a very bad idea to compare raw frequencies. Your typical CPU has many features to reduce latency, e.g. Branch prediction.
 
@SeçkinSavaşçı But we're not talking about CPU. I'm talking about CPU vs RAM R/W speed.
 
@Cinch have you heard about level X cache?
 
Cinch is very confused
 
@SeçkinSavaşçı A bit. They're in the CPU and have extremely fast R/W time right?
Different levels, we move outward, we get slower, but we have larger sizes.
 
9:58 AM
@Cinch Your argument doesn't make sense because memory is designed around CPU architectures.
 
@SeçkinSavaşçı I'm not savvy on this, which is why I'm on here anyways.
 
so if you become savvy one day, you are gonna forget everybody here?
 
@khajvah Well, no. There's always something more to learn.
 

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