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user3010322
12:02 PM
Names = PRUNED
 
WOW
> Support for Cilk Plus has been added
TIL GCC has Cilk
that's pretty cool
I always thought it was a bit obscure
 
user3010322
Hm.
 
user3010322
I need to know how much stack space exists for the lua user data values you can create.
 
user3010322
The manual ain't tellin' me the default space....
 
That information sounds like the sort of thing you shouldn't want to know.
 
12:09 PM
what on earth are you talking about?
the Lua stack does not have a notion of "how much space".
 
user3010322
It's an early precaution, I guess. I'm just trying to figure out why every example in the universe for lua_newuserdata always allocates a pointer and then new's something up in its place.
 
because that's what you're supposed to do.
 
user3010322
Why not ask a newuserdata that just has enough space for the T in general?
 
user3010322
(Robot asked this yesterday)
 
er
why would you over-allocate the userdata in the first place?
 
user3010322
12:12 PM
? Over-allocate?
 
Xeo
Whoo. I'm on top of the technology. Connecting to the iOS app with the commandline flash debugger
for USB debugging
 
it's pretty fuckin' simple, just call lua_newuserdata with sizeof(T), then placement new into the storage.
 
Xeo
to check "missing interwebs" code
 
Sounds like the best of both worlds.
 
what's complicated or problematic about that?
 
user3010322
12:13 PM
That's... that's what I was saying...
 
user3010322
Oh... nevermind.
 
right
 
user3010322
I'm bad at explaining myself. :c
 
well every example does it that way because that's what you're supposed to do.
and it's super simple.
 
user3010322
Every example I've come across does void* user_data = lua_newuserdata( sizeof( T* ) ) and then goes and does a fresh casted_user_data = new T();, actually...
 
12:14 PM
@DeadMG He says that every example allocates a T* and then assigns new T to it.
 
eh
that's pretty much irrelevant really.
it's your space and you can place in it whatever you happen to need.
 
there is something wrong with my email server - it is a shared server so I am not sure it is not caused by someone else's doing
 
user3010322
Hoookay.
 
probably the example authors are just too stupid to conceive of the idea of constructing something without new T().
 
@DeadMG can I place a refrigerated chicken there?
 
12:16 PM
@telkitty.exe post a testcase
@DeadMG Or, they lack knowledge. No need to go around calling them "stupid".
 
I had sent an email to myself but I have not received on the other account
 
@telkitty.exe check your spam box
 
not there and not in trash
 
user3010322
Can a static function pointer be assigned to a void* pointer with no issues?
 
user3010322
Or is that UB / violation of somebody's rules?
 
12:18 PM
@ThePhD no
 
@telkitty.exe Where's your server hosted? Has your ISP decided to start blocking the SMTP port?
 
@ThePhD it's ill-formed
 
user3010322
(static_cast into void*, static_cast out to int (*)( int ) or whatever)
 
user3010322
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Oh. That bites.
 
actually no maybe it's not
 
12:18 PM
it's platform-specific.
 
conclusion: I don't remember
 
I think it's ok as long as it's not a member function pointer
?
 
technically, the Standard does not permit it to support platforms with different data/code pointer sizes.
but in reality, no such platforms are in common usage as far as I know.
 
user3010322
I know member function pointers can't be cast to void* because they're really just giant thunks and not really pointers.
 
ok, 4.10 doesn't say anything about function pointers so it's illformed
 
12:19 PM
@Xeo 'Whoo. I'm on top of the technology', with 'commandline flash debugger'. It's the latest thing! No more GUIs with panes of stack trace, source line, visible breakpoints, watches, tooltip inspection and all that irrelevant stuff!
 
POSIX recommends against it.
POSIX recommends using something that is not dubious, but instead is flat-out UB.
 
@ThePhD function pointers are not (data) pointers
 
@MartinJames burp
@BartekBanachewicz nobody said they were, Mr Strawman
 
user3010322
This may be weird, but perhaps I dump the function pointer's bits with a memcpy into an appropriately sized char[ n ], serialize, and then pull them back out of the byte array on the other side?
 
@ThePhD they're a pointer + offset of some sort usually, afaik?
 
12:21 PM
What.
If you want to do that use a reinterpret_cast.
 
@ThePhD Noooooooo!
 
@ThePhD what if your Lua code deserializes on another machine?
 
imagine you're a code and someone deserializes you on Amiga
now that would be fucked up
 
> imagine you're a code
 
12:22 PM
> Converting a function pointer to an object pointer type or vice versa is conditionally-supported. The meaning of such a conversion is implementation-defined, except that if an implementation supports conversions in both directions, converting a prvalue of one type to the other type and back, possibly with different cv-qualification, shall yield the original pointer value.
 
user3010322
@BartekBanachewicz The serialization is in-memory: it doesn't last beyond the program's execution...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes chapter and verse plz
5.2.10/8
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes and of course you can't reliably query for support, right?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit [expr.reinterpret.cast]
@BartekBanachewicz Name an implementation doesn't.
 
that's under reinterpret_cast, though. I don't consider it to say anything meaningful about semantic conversions
 
12:23 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes what are we not pedants now?
 
@BartekBanachewicz s/pedants/purveyors of fyne robust code fer ye gentrie/
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Oh, I quoted that as a follow-up to this: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/16071871#16071871
 
user3010322
func_ptr_t myfunc = ...;
void* erasedmyfunc = reinterpret_cast<void*>( myfunc );
lua_stores_this( erasedmyfunc, ... );

// Later ...

void* erasedmyfunc = lua_get_this( myfunc_id, ... );
func_ptr_t myfunc = reinterpret_cast<func_ptr_t>( erasedmyfunc );
 
user3010322
12:25 PM
^ That's the jist of it, really.
 
you'll get away with it
 
user3010322
Welp, that's all I need to hear then.~
 
I'm all you'll ever need
 
user3010322
Ah, Lightness-sama... ♥
 
@ScarletAmaranth Usually pointer to the member function entry point and 'this', ie. double the size of void* on common architectures.
 
12:26 PM
POSIX recommends: void* the_void_ptr; fun* the_fun_ptr; *(void**)(&the_fun_ptr) = the_void_ptr;
That's nonsense and fuck POSIX.
 
user3010322
o.0
 
user3010322
That's, uh.
 
user3010322
That's very bizarre.
 
@MartinJames mmm; do you actually need 'this'? isn't it an offset to some table of 'this'-es? (I mean, not need but - is not not the most common implementation?)
 
And void* the_void_ptr; fun* the_fun_ptr; *(fun**)(&the_void_ptr) = the_fun_ptr; for the other way around, I guess.
@ThePhD It's UB!
 
12:28 PM
@MartinJames what
pointers-to-members don't include an object handle, pally.
 
@ScarletAmaranth Not sure that thisses get kept in a table?
 
@MartinJames No.
 
@MartinJames what?!
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Normally @ThePhD would be jumping in joy at this. Something must be wrong.
 
12:29 PM
a member function pointer is an offset, and a function pointer.
 
@MartinJames Thisses are supplied only later.
 
the offset is to offset "this" for base-to-derived conversions.
then to call the MFP you offset "this" by the given offset, then call the function.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG two offsets, potentially, IIRC
 
lol
 
12:29 PM
@DeadMG thanks puppy
 
@DeadMG Not enough!
 
@Xeo Well, depends on the implementation.
that's the basic model anyway
ISTR that if virtual inheritance is involved and some other funsies then you can pay more, especially on MSVC.
 
@MartinJames aren't they? I'm not sure either : - / I've always somehow... been under the impression there's offset of some sort involved :P
 
Xeo
MSVC has 3 or 4 different structures for member pointers
 
12:30 PM
@DeadMG An implementation cannot work with just the offset and the function pointer.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes dis link is much amaze
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit damnit, screwed it up again. just wait, the next pic will be 100% brand new!
 
Don't post pics of your genitals.
 
lol
 
OK, maybe this and vtable offset.
 
user3010322
12:31 PM
Unless they're covered in cherry pie.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Absolutely it can, unless there's virtual inheritance involved.
oh, oh, what's this?
oh, it's a pointer and offset to this.
 
user3010322
to... from?
 
user3010322
From to.
 
user3010322
Either way we're going, as long as I'm traveling with you, baby~
 
Fromage
 
12:33 PM
@DeadMG It's not just a pointer to a function.
 
Seems like the structure may be different - the class may, or may not, have a VMT/vtable?
 
not sure how the compiler is supposed to know whether or not the MFP points to a virtual function or not.
 
@DeadMG Yeah.. ??
 
Xeo
@DeadMG It doesn't have to. The MFP structure changes depending on if the class has any virtual functions
and does stuff the same in all cases
 
There must be more in the MFP that tells it at runtime how to call the MF.
Maybe..
 
12:38 PM
@Xeo That's only MSVC. The section I linked to from Itanium does not mention any such.
 
user3010322
Delegating Constructors TOO GOOD. ♬~
 
@DeadMG Is there a limit to vtable size?
 
nope
 
user3010322
I thought vtable offsets were a property of the object itself?
 
user3010322
Wouldn't the MFP not have to include that information and instead take it from the instance it's invoked on?
 
12:40 PM
and at 1 pointer-size entry per virtual function, it's not going to grow to a large size any time soon
plus some other gunk which is also low-size.
@ThePhD You can't take a vtable offset from an object. They don't have vtable offsets. Only types have vtable offsets.
and also, you wouldn't know what offset to take if you don't know what function you're trying to find.
 
MFP is like 2*sizeof(void *) with GCC. Dunno about MSVC.
 
Report: Google to end forced G+ integration, drastically cut division resources
Report says 1000-1200 employees will be moved from Google+ to other divisions. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/04/report-google-to-end-forced-g-integration-drastically-cut-division-resources/
sounds good to me
 
user3010322
Wait a second.
 
@VáclavZeman this is consistent with what @MartinJames says
 
user3010322
The reason they tried to force Google+ into everything was because Google+ was trying to justifying it's existence as a 1.2K+ employee army? o.0
 
12:46 PM
I think it was just an attempt at getting the thing to be used by everyone but as the article says
> As Google gets bigger and bigger, it faces harsher scrutiny, and few things the company has done have been more disliked than Google+. According to the report, Google+'s YouTube takeover was seen as "a rocky move" even inside the company.
 
WTF was that? Robot vomited briefly.
 
@DeadMG It seems to look at the LSB to pick between virtual and non-virtual.
LSB is 1? virtual.
Makes sense.
> For a virtual function, it is 1 plus the virtual table offset (in bytes)
The offset in bytes will be a multiple of 8, and so will a function pointer address.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah - it would indeed be annoying if an extra boolean was needed just for that:)
 
hmm
 
12:49 PM
Adding one not only distinguishes from the null pointer, but also marks it as a virtual function offset.
 
that does seem to be assuming that a function pointer address is aligned to 8 bytes.
 
@DeadMG Well, as long as it's aligned to at least two bytes...
 
@AlexM. Why is it disliked that much? I can see it G+ could be improved but I do not hate it. I quite like it.
 
@VáclavZeman Because they're trying to force it upon us, essentially.
want to use youtube? MUST HAVE GOOGLE PLUS ACCOUNT UNDER REAL NAME
fuck that shit, I'd rather just not have a youtube account
 
12:52 PM
the only reason I use Google+ is because I use YouTube and Google Play
 
@DeadMG I thought they have left the "real name" policy already.
 
thus, because I'm forced to
 
Hm...
 
@VáclavZeman Don't know, don't care.
 
user3010322
@VáclavZeman They made sure my name "The Phantom Derpstorm" couldn't be used. :c
 
12:53 PM
all I care about is when I visit youtube after logging in to my emails, it has my real name in the corner.
 
Virtual test in lines 5-7. .L8 loads the pointer from the vtable, and .L9 adjusts the this pointer before the actual call.
 
Fuck Google+. I'm just pissed off with changing interfaces all the fucking time. The fucking stupid ribbon controls on MS Office were bad enough.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ack. Thanks:)
 
oh boy, I just scrolled down on Itanium ABI and I saw "Virtual table layout" again.
PTSD triggered
 
user3010322
There, there.
 
user3010322
It's alright. It can't hurt you anymore.
 
12:57 PM
yes, yes it definitely can.
 
lol, what trauma have you endured with VMT or Itanium?
 
implemented virtual functions for Wide
 
I think he's still in the process of enduring Itanium trauma
 
Itraumium.
 
but
soon I will not have to be able to write Itanium-compatible stuff, only read it.
 
12:59 PM
'Note: Itanium based systems are not supported'. There, job done.
 
Itanium ABI is the one followed by GCC on virtually all platforms.
same for Clang
 
@MartinJames I believe it's more like "only Itanium based systems supported".
 
well, until Clang finishes up their support for Microsoft ABI, I can't even begin work on supporting it.
 
user3010322
At one point, I remember VS being able to compile for IA64
 
user3010322
Then, the option disappeared.
 
1:02 PM
yeah, Itanium as a processor family is pretty much dead.
 
user3010322
But the ABI is still used?
 
like I said, the Itanium ABI is the one used for virtually all platforms.
even Windows on x86/64 by MinGW.
 
@ThePhD That's different. The processor doesn't really care about calling conventions and vtables and whatnot.
 
user3010322
Ah.
 
there's a difference between the Itanium ABI as in, the C ABI employed by all applications on the Itanium processor, and the Itanium ABI, as in, the C++ ABI family.
 
1:04 PM
o_O
wat
 
personally, the Wide ABI will have a lot less to say than the Itanium ABI does.
but I've got a shitload of refactoring to do before then
 
1:32 PM
10
Q: Does std::function allow an implicit cast from reference to copy in its return type?

Jacek SiekaIn the code snipped below, the compiler silently casts the return-by-copy function pointer into a return-by-const-reference std::function. When the std::function instance is called, a reference to the copy is returned and the application crashes (most of the time ;). By the way of comparison, o...

 
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That title is backwards.
 
user3010322
I always get the abrasive vibe from Nicol Bolas...
 
user3010322
I'm not sure why.
 
That's an interesting issue
 
1:46 PM
'Oasis are threatening to reunite, may ruin Glastonbury' :((
 
@Xeo I agree. I think the last paragraph is backwards in the same way.
@ThePhD e.g.?
 
user3010322
0
A: Sandboxing Embedded Lua in 5.2 / Set Envirenment for Functions from lua.file

Nicol Bolas both define an init function and other functions with similar names. First of all, why are those functions global? They should be local to the script. If you're going to require them in other files, they should create and return a table containing the functions that they wish to expose. The...

 
user3010322
And other places, I guess.
 
user3010322
But these are from a long time ago.
 
user3010322
It's not like he's OVERTLY harsh.
 
user3010322
1:50 PM
Just kind of rough.
 
user3010322
It's certainly not downvote worthy.
 
user3010322
It's... it's like being sneered at, I guess.
 
user3010322
A cocksure, condescending half-grin.
 
user3010322
I dunno, I'm probably thinking waay too hard.
 
You seem to be on to something
I know this, because reading that answer it might as well have been one of mine
Did you not spot that it is very badly formatted? And think "hey, I should do something about that"? — Lightness Races in Orbit 25 secs ago
 
user1804599
1:57 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit if only more people had formatting OCDs.
 
user1804599
I had a nice vlampijp and a nice sitostick today.
 
Then, can you check that my program works "right"? Subsequently introduce more things that resemble your application, right until the problem occurs. Then you'll either know the problem, or exactly what to ask. — sehe 7 secs ago
@rightfold 2 kroketten
@ThePhD OVERTLY hard
 
@sehe "in succession" would be better than "subsequently"
subsequently implies doing something after some other thing, but only once. it's not really a repetitive "one after the other" idiom.
 
user1804599
@sehe dat is ook yumyum.
 
2:06 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ikr "right until" implies the repetition
 
@sehe "and continue doing so right until", then
 
@ThePhD She wasn't just thinking it.
 
too late for editz. if it takes this amount of tuning, I'm happy if the OP misses the point, though :/
@LightnessRacesinOrbit what? I fail to see /any/ logical line of reasoning there. What is the point?
 
user1804599
Zero is exactly the amount of logical lines of reasoning you would expect from a non-atheist.
 
@sehe I'm sorry, did you think that religious arguments usually had logical lines of reasoning?
 
user1804599
 
@rightfold That's a bit of a generalization
 
user1804599
@TonyTheLion I like generalisation; easier reuse.
 
@rightfold You're not writing code
 
user1804599
There is no such thing as "not writing code."
 
2:11 PM
oh you nerd
 
user1804599
Oh my.
 
user1804599
How many languages do you need to know to make a web application?
 
All of them.
 
user1804599
My Emacs frame currently has four windows all with different languages. :v
 
2:12 PM
Shame none of them is "sense"
 
I'm currently only doing C#
@LightnessRacesinOrbit hehe
 
user1804599
I'm currently only doing HTML, LiveScript, Python and PHP.
 
Eeek HTML and PHP
Python <3
 
user1804599
LiveScript (<3)
 
user1804599
Sections (<3)
 
2:13 PM
@rightfold Maybe, one day, you will compile something.
 
user1804599
@MartinJames I compile LiveScript and LESS each day!
 
user1804599
Hihi, I have a LESS file open in a buffer.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit was it religious? I thought it was something about obscenities
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't get it. :c
 
Xeo
@sehe The "atheist's worst nightmare" part should've tipped you off
 
2:15 PM
@sehe The implied question is 'how can such a well-adapted thing not have been designed?'.
 
@Xeo It did. But then it only referenced how pleasurable and ergonomic it all was. It didn't make sense except if obscenities were considered
 
@sehe huh
what obscenities?
did you see an image about a banana and immediately think about someone shoving it up their bum? :/
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ahahahaha. Last week I sat in the park with my kids (having a bit of a picknick for lunch) and I actually wondered at the beauty of things. Silly old me of course starts explaining to his kids that nature has a marvelous way of encouraging diversity and "esthetically pleasing" (read: attention-grabbing/differentiating) appearance/behaviour
 
Actually it's more accurate to say that we evolved to find the stuff beautiful. It's all in the eye of the beholder.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Don't you ever wonder how it could - spontaneously - have evolved to afford this very operation so delightfully? The gods have trully blessed you with this creation!
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's what the quotes were for.
 
2:18 PM
@sehe Thanks Gods!
 
The 'Shepherds Crook' shape of the Ebola virus looks aesthetically pleasing.
 
O meh gewd, if the next++ cpp conference is during the Oktoberfest, I would totally be tempted into attending it
 
Xeo
... I think I like the commandline flash debugger
It must be the fact that it sits inside a terminal, and I like terminals.
 
2:22 PM
Biology is fucking amazing
@Xeo Departures at Larnaca is great
 
@Xeo The higher the potential difference and the lower the impedance, the better.
@telkitty.exe Only 3/4 months after the June unconference? I won't have recovered enough.
 
@Xeo Saving this message for future use.
 
or 15/16 months :p
 
Xeo
hehe
I'm sure I will be complaining about it soon enough
 
kek
(inb4: "is it sad that I recognise 'kek' off-hand?" yes, it is)
 
Xeo
2:25 PM
but for now it lets me debug the app without needing a LAN connection, which is really handy to test connection failures.
Of course, on the other hand, FlashDevelop plain sucks for not letting you set up the debugger options so it does the same
 
Oktoberfest... I bet all hotels already booked up.
 
Xeo
all it really does is start the commandline flash debugger and forward input / output. but it only starts it in listen mode
 
that's true
One reason why I am so reluctant to travel overseas is because I am awful at learning foreign langauges
and I feel inferior for not be able to speak the local language
 
@telkitty.exe You would be OK - I'm sure you have lots of lightweight camping gear - there must be sites around the city.
 
user1804599
@LightnessRacesinOrbit kek
 
2:30 PM
@telkitty.exe It's Oktoberfest. Point at beer and wave money.
 
@MartinJames I was thinking the same thing :p ... then I thought 'would that be too cheapskating?'
ship my gear to robot's place beforehand for extra convenience :p
 
@telkitty.exe Not if hotels full and you have also the excu.. reason of a 'professional conference that you HAD to attend at short-notice'.
 
user3010322
@ScarletAmaranth A+, she passes.
 
2:32 PM
@ThePhD yup; well played by her
 
Xeo
@MartinJames Professional beer drinking conference?
 
'Robot's place' is becoming an international letter/parcel pickup :)
@ThePhD ..and martial arts:)
 
people might get all suspicious when robot start receving large parcels every day
 
@Xeo Something like that, (I hope).
@telkitty.exe Especially when the packages have a 'Right Side Up' logo of a cartoon bomb with the fuse at the top.
 
I won't be joining you in Berlin this time. @R.MartinhoFernandes, you can take me off the FILE_NOT_FOUND list
 
2:45 PM
@ScarletAmaranth that's what happened to H2CO3.
@TonyTheLion cmon
 
hahahah
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ?
 
@MartinJames ??
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ???
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit What happened to H2CO3?
 
2:47 PM
@TonyTheLion ????
@MartinJames He reacted to give carbonate salts.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Such an acid tongue you have..
 
@TonyTheLion LOL - what soccer match was that?
 
@MartinJames some Russian football match apparently
 
@TonyTheLion Oh, that's a surprise.
 
2:54 PM
> By any sort of commercial scale, Grand Theft Auto is easily Scotland’s largest cultural export ever.
 
@EtiennedeMartel lolwat
 
It's true (and quite clearly so)
 
@EtiennedeMartel Larger than Whiskey?
 
It's fitting than Scotland's largest cultural export is a thing where you beat people up.
 
"culturel" haha
 
2:57 PM
Scotch exports are about £2bn; GTA has 150+ million sales ever, and if you sell a title for £20 a piece, then that's over £3bn.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sssshhhh.
My French shows up sometimes.
 
I don't know anyone who plays GTA, but 'double Bells' and 'large Highland Park' are quite familiar to me.
 
@MartinJames GTA V made a thousand million dollars in three days.
 
@EtiennedeMartel teehee
@EtiennedeMartel Canadian*
 
No other entertainment property has ever grossed so much in so little time.
 
2:59 PM
Oh yes, my figures don't even include GTA V, which assuredly has at least $1.8bn to its name from the first four days of sales alone; that's obviously not an annual figure, though. In fact, none of them are.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Well, I do have an arrogant side. Properly my French ancestry.
 
Scotch quite clearly kicks GTA's arse commercially, with £2bn per year in exports.
 

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