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12:02 AM
I also heard bismuth alloys work well too.
 
123
sry i'm here for science ...
 
123
@Griwes i have question, why c++ have not any web framework?
 
I can't answer your question, because it assumes something that is not true.
Now get lost.
Also your question rapes the English grammar.
 
123
12:17 AM
:D
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit OK, I got home. That's embarrassing to dog owners.
@JerryCoffin That's what I have in my office. I also have a 140W solder gun for quick service repairs.
@123 'Cos that's the job of libraries, not core language.
 
@MartinJames I guess 140W should be quick, but I can't quite imagine trying to use it on anything very small at all (but maybe it's not as huge as it sounds--I guess a 140W heating element doesn't necessarily mean the tip can't be reasonably fine).
 
@JerryCoffin No, your instinct is correct. It's a soldering sledgehammer.
 
thank you @MartinJames
 
@MartinJames I'm sure I've seen worse--like a guy trying to do soldering with a cutting torch.
 
12:30 AM
@JerryCoffin Yeah.. gas-axe doesn't work that well for soldering/brazeing.
 
@MartinJames Yeah--he was trying to re-attach the strip of metal between the barrels of a double-barrel shotgun. I'm pretty sure he completely destroyed it instead.
 
@JerryCoffin It would fuck up the hardening/tempering of the barrel steel. Pretty stupid.
 
@MartinJames Yes--even if he'd managed to get it reattached, I'd have been more than a little worried about its safety. The only (minor) consolation being that it was toward the end of the barrels, where the pressure is comparatively low. Sad to see a nice gun ruined that way.
 
@Griwes sigh Being a complete dickwad again, I see..
 
vOv
 
12:41 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's written by that person that got doxxed and fired from their job for writing stuff like that.
 
@JerryCoffin Indeed. Anyone who tried that around here would prolly end up with a more intimate encounter with a shotgun than they really wanted.
 
ooh-ah
wtf it's quarter to one
 
@MartinJames I'd probably have helped with that, but was somewhere around 12 years old at the time, and he was an adult (and a pretty large one at that, if memory serves).
 
i've literally been sat here in my hotel room for over three and a half hours doing nothing but reading imgur posts -.-
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit What? The hotel bar has been closed?
..or are you getting Directors on room service?
 
12:56 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That sounds depressing.
 
I just didn't bother
never got around to it
peculiar....
been really tired lately maybe that's why
speaking of.... OBAI
 
> Adware found:
C:\Program Files (x86)\LLVM\uninstall.exe
ಠ_ಠ
 
@Borgleader A clear mistake. LLVM is known subtract-ware.
 
Good morning.
lol so the Lounge just became 4chan?
 
No
Jalf is being melodramatic and overexaggerating.
 
1:11 AM
I thought it would be aligned by default (when using new) unless you purposefully made sure it wasn't? — Borgleader 23 secs ago
@Rapptz what else is new :P
 
@Borgleader It's also a keyword in C++ (but you "new" that already).
 
1:29 AM
Hm...that one doesn't seem to have gotten the audience very excited.
 
lol
 
I would try one of the standard lines about "I'll be here all week. Be sure and tip your waitress", but apparently that would cause a stampede for the doors, and complaints asking for the place to be shut down permanently. :-(
 
1:48 AM
On a different note, given the routine complaints about crappy questions, when a good question is asked, we should make a special effort to get it the up-votes it deserves.
 
@JerryCoffin Woah... Mr.Kuhl asked a question? o.O
 
@Borgleader Yup--and quite an interesting one that's sparked a number of equally interesting answers (at least IMO).
 
@Borgleader Cool thing huh?
 
@MarkGarcia A really smart, well-informed guy who's well aware that he doesn't know everything. If I'm allowed to say so: seems to be nearly the diametric opposite of Vlad.
 
None of these answers are really new.
 
2:02 AM
:-O Oh, did I say that out loud?
 
Columbo's answer is basically a tl;dr of this blog by @Xeo flamingdangerzone.com/cxx11/2013/03/11/overload-ranking.html
40
Q: How to safely read a line from an std::istream?

Dietmar KühlI want to safely read a line from an std::istream. The stream could be anything, e.g., a connection on a Web server or something processing files submitted by unknown sources. There are many answer starting to do the moral equivalent of this code: void read(std::istream& in) { std::string li...

 
@Rapptz Bragging are we now? ;)
 
lol
 
2:18 AM
QCamera *Qamera raise your hand if you thought the variable and the type name were the same. — Borgleader 9 secs ago
 
@Borgleader I C the difference immediately.
 
@JerryCoffin I had to do a double take, in fact, i was in the middle of commenting about them being the same when i realized they weren't.
 
@Borgleader I didn't mistake them for identical, but certainly agree that having two names that similar is a lousy idea (and even if you didn't have any similar names, Qamera seems to me like a lousy name, regardless).
 
2:49 AM
oh jeez
what do you mean by signature? Sorry, im really new to all of this and am just learning! :) — user2972324 17 mins ago
 
@Borgleader Be gentle! Once upon a time, we were all beginners. For most of us, it's happened a lot more than once. :-)
 
@JerryCoffin I know, I'm just afraid this might turn into one of those endless loops of me answering one question which spawns a new one.
 
@Borgleader It might--and yes, those can be really frustrating.
 
3:05 AM
hm if I have a crash address, how can I tell visual studio to show me the estimated source code file/line?
 
@Gizmo you need the symbols, if theyre not loaded, load them. if you dont have the symbols youre pretty much boned afaik
 
@Borgleader it's my source so yes I have the .pdb file :)
but like doing offline analysis?
when someone reports the crash address
 
get a dump file and load it if you can
 
hm will need to see how one can be auto generated
 
anyway, bed time for me
gotta be up at 5:30
 
3:08 AM
good night
 
@Borgleader Sleep well.
 
@Gizmo You can re-link with the same settings otherwise, but also create a .map file. This contains a list of what routines mapped to what addresses. You can find your address in there, and at least map it back to the correct routine. That won't tell you the exact line in the routine, but with reasonable-size routines is still usually a decent starting point.
Warning: for a large program, the .map file can be quite large.
@Borgleader G'night.
 
@JerryCoffin hehe thanks for the info :D and well as long as I can debug any crashes that might occur I am happy
 
@Gizmo To debug crashes, you probably want to add a call to something like MiniDumpWriteDump. That'll get you something you can run the debugger on, to see the state of the program immediately before it detected that things had gone south (though exactly how useful that will be can depend heavily on things like how much the optimizer did to your code).
 
ah that would require a other monitoring tool, I think i have one
don't know it's name but it can monitor a process and create a dump :)
 
3:20 AM
@Gizmo It doesn't (necessarily) have to be external to your program. You can embed code to do a minidump or a stack trace directly into your program. For what it's worth, here's code for stack trace stackoverflow.com/a/15373451/179910 that I posted some time ago.
 
ah lucky me does already have the stack trace as my code is a plugin inside another application
the application just doesn't make any dumps :x
of the memory
 
@Gizmo Assuming it's competently done, the stack trace should tell you exactly what functions were called before it crashed.
 
@JerryCoffin yeah that's always handy to know when debugging, though sometimes users do the most unexpected stuff so i'll go figure out how to get the memory dump going
 
@Gizmo Yup--that's usually a worthwhile addition.
 
last time I discovered a bug in the host application, a user typed his email as %s@%s.com and it crashed, though debug logs showed it wasn't my code I exactly knew how to patch it :D
if I didn't know that was the input I would've been going all day long testing.. probably
 
3:38 AM
I'm wondering if there is any big difference in performance when using a console application in wine on a proxmox machine
compared to windows
(which just processes incomming packets and spits out some data back into the network)
 
4:01 AM
codergears.com/Blog/?p=1313 lol // cc @Borgleader
 
Hmm...I seem to have come up with a fairly interesting rep score.
2
If I could just get one more gold and one more silver badge without changing the rep, it'd be just about perfect.
 
@JerryCoffin Just need one more silver badge!
And one more gold badge!
 
wrong kind of parrot?
 
@JerryCoffin lol, didn't see that message.
 
@MarkGarcia Great Silly minds think alike! :-)
@chmod711telkitty You'll have to talk to the SOverlords about that.
 
4:13 AM
Hi.
Oooh. 5am.
 
@JerryCoffin I'm flattered! :)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Are you up early or late?
 
Both?
I woke up at 00.30
 
@MarkGarcia So am I. Oh wait, you said "flattered", not "tattered". My apologies.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Good lord. That sounds awful.
 
Is it a good or a bad sign when the bartender gives you free shots?
(I'm still sober. Ish.)
 
4:15 AM
good for your wallet, bad for your brain?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Usually bad. If said bartender is female (and hot) it could be all right though.
 
She is indeed female and hot.
 
Oh, and single, obviously. Otherwise, it could be really bad.
 
Also married and 44.
 
That pretty much ruins it.
 
Xeo
4:19 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Why the fuck are you in a bar at 5am?
 
Because I like that bar?
 
You have drinking problems
 
Xeo
wait, has your vacation already started?
 
I'm not drunk.
@Xeo yes.
 
Xeo
ah
are you alone in that bar?
 
4:21 AM
No.
 
Xeo
good good
 
I never drink alone.
 
gud
 
Xeo
Yeah, that's why I asked. Being in a bar at 5am still strikes me as odd, but okay
 
What's wrong with it?
 
Xeo
4:23 AM
Dunno, just seems weird.
 
5 AM and sober, that is.
 
My friend was telling me a story about a married cougar the other day, but the cougar didn't know that the hot guy she was hitting on was gay
 
I'm not gay.
 
homophobic!
 
4:26 AM
@JerryCoffin Hey, now it’s my turn waking up!
 
Waning gibbous.
Would have been perfect to go see the auroras.
Fuck tourists.
I mean, tourists that are not me.
 
That movie was awful
 
@Jefffrey What movie?
 
@LucDanton You wake up at ridiculously early hours often enough that it's no longer a surprise though.
 
4:31 AM
@Xeo what are you doing up at 5am?
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Backing a project on KickStarter that I've been waiting for
I'll go back to napping in a second
 
Are you kidding?
 
Xeo
Nope.
 
Maybe German government is testing something on the citizens & making them wake up early, it's possible
 
@chmod711telkitty Maybe your government is testing something on you and all of what you are experiencing right now is just a dream.
 
4:33 AM
I love my sleep
 
WAKE UP
 
better than be insomnious
 
Xeo
SHEEPLE
 
Nothing like freshly baked bread.
 
@Xeo Please don't wake it up again!
 
4:35 AM
@bfavaretto At this point I've just accepted the fact that my inbox will be sheer noise until the end of WB. — abby hairboat ♦ 10 hours ago
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes oooh, now I want some
 
Go back to sleep :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You cruel person, making me think of that at a time like this when I definitely can't get any such thing.
 
When are you coming to Berlin again?
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm surprised I'm actually awake, not really sleepy and not in a zombie-like state at the moment
@R.MartinhoFernandes Monday at 1am
 
4:37 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I wish I could...
 
Xeo
is when I'll arrive at Hirschgarten
0:20 at Ostbahnhof or so?
 
@Mysticial sometime ago I emailed abby hairboat telling her about my lunch
 
lol
 
Missed my stop.
 
@Jefffrey lol wat
 
Xeo
4:40 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes surprise surprise
 
@MarkGarcia wat wat
 
@Jefffrey Should have a reference to a hat to make it less Jehovah's-y.
Don't know if they wear hats at that time.
 
It was just temporary ;)
 
user1646075
@AlexM. "mancati-as gura" may be related to the Judas Kiss. Gypsies are primarily followers of a christian faith, aren't they?
 
user1646075
or - kiss your mouth as an insult added to injury.
 
user1646075
4:49 AM
interesting transcript out there from the last several hours. Lounge seems to follow a regular cycle. Is it a full moon?
 
user1646075
also lebanese women are famous for exclaiming "I want to eat you!" when, eg a child has been especially cute, followed by an almost assault-like smothering of kisses. Although this is never used in an aggressive way, the kids often cringe in the corner muttering quietly in shock for some minutes.
 
user1646075
@Jefffrey Helllooooo christmas! I'll be gorging on similar delights in the very near future.
 
I have been making salmon soups, the salmon was great. But I was think maybe salmon chowder would be even more delicious ... & fattening
 
ugh I hate patching closed source applications
always ugly code
 
user1646075
5:02 AM
until mid-january at least, nothing should be cooked other than upon a barbeque
 
Damnit. Now I'm hungry.
 
 
user1646075
you know how to improve the tenderness of prawns on the bbq? wrap them in bacon
 
Stahp
 
user1646075
so you don't want my tips for perfect crackling on the weber kettle bbq?
 
user1646075
5:17 AM
Has anyone used sdelete to zero the space in a win VM's virtual drive prior to compacting? Is sdelete -z the relevant and sufficient usage for this task?
 
user1646075
... it would appear so. hope it doesn't smash anything. Hard to trust software from ms
 
@rightføld Holy shit. Perl is so awful.
Name 1 thing they did right.
 
user1646075
@Jefffrey they had fun and considered the value of getting shit done?
 
Why every time someone discusses how bad a language is, "getting things done" always come up?
 
user1646075
I can't defend the shambolic mess that it is, however ;-)
 
user1646075
5:32 AM
because, like, getting shit done is important?
 
It's irrelevant to how badly designed a language is.
 
user1646075
Pascal is pure. Was never much use for real work though. No wonder C shit upon it on the great race
 
user1646075
@Jefffrey oh, i thought your sub-text was wondering why it was popular
 
user1646075
@Jefffrey all of nature is a shambolic mess. why should programming escape completely?
 
Honestly. I can't think of 1 thing they did right.
 
5:37 AM
How would I go about optimising my I/O bound functions?
 
user1646075
hmmmm. let me think about it a bit. give me some time please.
 
user1646075
1/ the so-called OO is comedic. Can't praise that.
 
Global by default, global function parameters... wat, dynamic typing, global regex variables, the CGI module (end_html... seriously), ...
 
user1646075
2/ references introduced in version 5 were a desperate kludge which hoped to avoid breaking backwards compatibility. can't defend that
 
They were even able to fuck up functions. How can you fuck functions up, seriously.
 
user1646075
5:39 AM
what are you thinking of specifically wrt functions?
 
arguments
 
user1646075
yes, exploiting and exposing pre-existing internal structures (arrays) to capture args is cheap.
 
AFAIKS you don't retrieve the arguments of a function like non-retarded languages do, you access them via some global hash or specific global variables like $first or $second.
 
user1646075
also the aliasing that goes on can cause problems at times.
 
user1646075
never seen $first $second etc, unless that's a Perl-6-ism
 
5:41 AM
nah, I might be mistaken
 
user1646075
the global 'default array' @_ is what you're thinking of. it's common to write my ($x, $y) = @_;
 
user1646075
to capture them
 
Ok, so I guess they did pattern matching right at least.
 
user1646075
oh yeah, that's true. In the realm of regex it's definitely the best available in class. I positively despise having to do POSIX regex
 
@Rapptz 'Can the input be memory-mapped' is the extent of my knowledge in the area.
 
5:45 AM
Something that bugs me is my HDD's speed :(
 
user1646075
CPAN is Perl's biggest asset. The communal supply of packages is outstanding, and often saves a shit-load of time.
 
Pfft.
0
A: C++ Getting compilation error while insert string into a map

capsYou need to pay attention to your compiler warnings. In a couple of your classes you had std::vector<Comparable_2> members where I think you meant to have just plain old Comparable_2 members. I couldn't get your code to compile without changing that. As far as I can tell, that was your main issu...

 
I've profiled my HDD and it's supposed to be 140 MB/s but I'm barely getting 26 MB/s.
 
The guy couldn't figure out that he was using a std::vector<T> where he wanted just a T.
Took me like an hour to get his stuff to compile.
 
Haven't tried my SSD yet.
 
user1646075
5:49 AM
@Rapptz the wierd thing about HDD is that you can't get full performance by reading from a single thread. I've tested disks for many years and the best total throughput invariably comes when you have 5-8 threads hammering the disk independently. Beyond that, the total throughput slumps to a basline that is identical to single-thread performance.
 
I tried the whole "let's destroy this thing with threads" approach to no avail.
So I stuck to single threaded for the actual I/O part.
 
user1646075
this has repercussions when setting up db servers; you actually want 5-8 active chunks so that checkpoints can achieve least time flushing by trying to flush the optimal number of spaces. It's counter-intuitive but that's the way it worls.
 
user1646075
i used to get performance improvements in the order of 20 times by analysing people's table traffic, and redistributing the tables across their 2-4 disks so that the load was spread evenly across 6*NDISK chunks. The hardest part was then trying to explain why it was so much better
 
user1646075
apart from checkpoints, general 'foreground writes' and normal read activity also profited identically
 
user1646075
hmmm - i thought i had my little test program on github, but no.
 
6:07 AM
Do bandicoots attack chickens?
 
user1646075
ummm probably their eggs at least. not sure they're big enough to overcome a raging chicken.
 
user1646075
my impression of the dramas of the last day in the lounge:
 
user1646075
1/ Jalf is probably suffering from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection - all the shit he provoked with me could have been avoided if he had first started with: Jalf) Do you really think that? Me) No, not really, I'm actually totally opposed to the idea, but I'm a bit distraught, and anyway I'm just chatting with rightfold.
 
user1646075
2/ see also en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False-consensus_effect regarding the hypothetical discussion of a round table of cat lovers, dog lovers and their opinions of abstinence voters.
 
user1646075
"why can't we all just get along" ??
 
6:18 AM
@caps Well done :)
 
See you all later
 
user1646075
ciao. where go?
 
@GuruAdrian IME, you can usually get full performance in a single thread, provided you bypass most of the "help" the OS tries to give you. On Windows, for example, you generally want to start by opening the file with FILE_FLAG_NO_BUFFERING, and then read in relatively large chunks. For example: ideone.com/Lui25S
This technique probably isn't nearly as useful for things like databases though, since they rarely transfer single chunks of data nearly this large.
 
user1646075
that's only step one. For the db engine I used it was standard practice to avoid any O/S buffering, scheduling or even layout through the use of raw space on the disk - bypassing even filesystems. This because the engine was an O/S in itself, insofar as it was highly tuned for the purpose of getting data in and out on behalf of typical SQL activity.
 
user1646075
but beyond that, proper choices could make a huge difference. I would always test upon raw chunks and it got to the point where I just couldn;t be bothered.
 
user1646075
6:29 AM
There was one very interesting anomaly though. Clariion arrays had outstanding and identical performance for anything from 1 to 100 threads. One day I had access to a new unformatted clariion and it was a real surprise. Those things obviously had some hard-core performance code inside them.
 
@GuruAdrian That you think this only means that you missed his point (which isn't necessarily your fault)
 
user1646075
@JerryCoffin many of the DB engines use a checkpoint concept. Assuming that the pre-image of all pages are saved off to a physical log, and the logical log records ongoing change in a sussinct manner, then memory is allowed to get as dirty as it likes for many minutes. At a nominated schedule, memory was flushed, timestamp markers updated and on it went.
 
user1646075
Checkpoints are prepared by sorting the pages in sequential order as best as possible, and flushed at high speed. Several parallel flushes per disk were optimal.
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes his point is that I shouldn't even say this out loud in a public forum. which is a fair call. sometimes you forget how public this world is. If his point is that you shouldn't even pretend to think that, even in private conversatoin (which it wasn't), however morbidly facetious it is, then I can't agree with that stance. What, in your opinion, is the point?
 
@GuruAdrian That you don't agree with it is a different matter.
 
user1646075
6:35 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes so teh point is the 2nd point?
 
Your hypothetical scenario that would avoided whatever would not.
 
user1646075
if so i can agree with that, and perhaps a simple reminder of the public room would have been sufficient. As it was, he ended up actually expressing lack of care as to the life of the recent gunman, and that in itself is extraordinary after his 10 minutes of relentless criticism
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes sorry, this is a confusing sentence, I can't interpret.
 
@GuruAdrian The exchange you outlined above as something that would have avoided "all the shit he provoked with [you]", would not have avoided it.
 
damn it reference assignment is at it again, what is variant<int&&, …> supposed to do?
 
user1646075
6:40 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes how so? if he was concerned about my opinion being real, then a quick, polite clarification whould easily have made me check myself. I seriously am against that red-dot position i joked about in poor taste, and I doubt you could ever back me into a corner where I ended up accepting a death penalty, for example, as acceptable response.
 
user1646075
instead he painted me as some rampaging beast without any attempt to reach proper understanding. So I think he's dealing with his own demons every time he goes off like this. But that's just a guess
 
Funny that you admit it was in poor taste, but still think his rant was completely unwarranted.
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes not unwarranted, just unnecessary. He could have managed his position far more effectively, and I could have easily corrected myself publicly and humbly
 
user1646075
i have no shame admitting I'm wrong or acting stupid. I call that a strength.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes took me a while to parse that sentence
 
6:48 AM
@GuruAdrian I have no idea what distinction you are trying to draw in that first sentence.
@GuruAdrian You didn't back then, though.
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes he didn't like my stupid comment. He went into full abuse without any hope of coming back to reasno.
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes because see previous line.
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes at first I tried to brush him off because he was being violent. Then it went downhill from there.
 
@GuruAdrian Yeah, pretty much the same as using your strength of admitting you're wrong, right?
Also, funny that you call him out for assuming malice from you, and then "because he was being violent".
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes at first I didn't see it necessary, given his violent approach, who is he to attack me?
 
6:52 AM
Yep, violent, and attacking you.
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, he was getting fairly angry, don't you think? if he was full of love and compassion, I did not read it in his words
 
@GuruAdrian At first?
When you "tried to brush him off"?
 
user1646075
deary-me is this going to go the same way?
 
This time with only mild violence.
 
user1646075
enlighten me as to his stance. Obviously I'm totally misunderstanding where he was coming from, and the openings he offered for me to correct myself in his eyes and apparently the rest of the world.
 
6:55 AM
@GuruAdrian You really want this?
yesterday, by jalf
I just think it's kind of tasteless, and that this isn't the place for it
And his "opening":
yesterday, by jalf
@GuruAdrian could we maybe not use this chat to discuss people we'd like to murder? That'd be cool.
 
user1646075
and ....
 
So violent.
 
user1646075
keep going.
 
user1646075
yesterday, by Guru Adrian
yes, that's exactly what I'm doing, because i'm serious
 
user1646075
facetious
 
user1646075
6:56 AM
but also illustrative
 
I don't have to keep going to show that saying he started out angry and violent and attacking you is not an honest representation.
 
user1646075
let me correct and say "then he got nasty." does that help?
 
user1646075
yesterday, by jalf
@GuruAdrian I'd rather my regular spaz-outs than yours. At least mine don't encourage murder
 
user1646075
that's a bit unfair!
 
user1646075
but gosh, i'm a murderer.
 
user1646075
6:58 AM
yesterday, by Guru Adrian
@AlexM. well spoken. if i must be serious, I hope he is peacefully extracted and faces justice. I am pleased that australia does not impose a death sentence
 
@GuruAdrian See, you're still going on with the wrong point.
 
user1646075
the thing is, I'm not sure what exactly he wanted. If he's only concerned about me expressing a stupid idea publicly, I've already addressed that with you.
 
> After 38 years of glory, the long run of Dr. Dobb's has come to an end.
 
@GuruAdrian Good then. Maybe you want him to know that.
He made it clear back then that that was what he was concerned with. (chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/10?m=20464566#20464566)
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes i don't think so. it actually feels different to be on the receiving end than being a bystander, and he disregarded my response above which clearly clarifies my position, and effectively retracts the stupid comment
 
user1646075
7:02 AM
so since that didn't satisfy him... also I've noticed that he has a history of carrying on like this, and I can only ponder.
 
@GuruAdrian I missed the response where you agreed with him that it was in bad taste.
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes ok, that's ok, it's hard to track sometimes. stand by, ids have arrives home.
 
@GuruAdrian But yes, it's easier to see things properly from the outside, and maybe this is something you should consider next time.
 
7:16 AM
Holy shit
I've almost gone to an exam 6 hours early
@R.MartinhoFernandes Remember to vote for #331, before you get one of those dangerous penalties.
 
user1646075
ids have arrives home => KIDS have arriveD home
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh I do, I do try to interpret where someone is coming from. The internet is notoriously difficult to read at the best of times, given that it's only letters on a screen, and there is no availability of vocal tone, facial expressions and other body language to feed-back and tune an interaction. I like to believe that if we were sitting around a table anxiously watching something unpleasant, Jalf would have easily seen what I was really saying, and would have been a bit more forgiving.
 
user1646075
just wrapping up. so sorry. I don't want this shit hanging around.
 
He objected to you saying it. He said it was tasteless, something which you have agreed with, post hoc. You didn't see that.
 
user1646075
7:31 AM
and you think it's all happy now? anyway, I was cool with the wrap-up, i bear no grudge. In my opinion it's pointless trying to correct the internet. It never ends well. Also, actually, i agreed virtually on the spot, and THAT was apparently missed. So be it.
 
It was missed because it's not there.
That simple.
 
user1646075
yesterday, by Guru Adrian
@AlexM. well spoken. if i must be serious, I hope he is peacefully extracted and faces justice. I am pleased that australia does not impose a death sentence
 
user1646075
he ALSO needed me to say DIRECTLY that I said a tasteless thing? Oh well, i guess I didn't retract far enough
 
You didn't.
You defended you saying it on the basis of not being serious.
 
user1646075
"Jalf, I said a tasteless thing, and I do not actually believe that stupid position. I do understand that a lot of grieving people might think that, also in references to the attack on school children in Pakistan [on the same day] and I will conscientiously discuss those feelings with anyone who is distressed by the current situation"
 
user1646075
7:36 AM
the reference to serious was simply to the little bit of jocular back and forth that was going on, including Alex, that was a light-hearted but futile attempt to defuse Jalf's apparent anger.
 
Which we already established is a dishonest representation.
 
user1646075
have we? how so?
 
You decided to correct yourself above by saying "then it got nasty".
 
user1646075
my quote is my formal apology NOW and clarification to Jalf, should he care, that I am not wanting murderous acts perpetrated on even a guilty assailant.
 
You still think people think you want that.
 
user1646075
7:39 AM
no, no I don't.
 
You keep telling us that you don't think it.
 
user1646075
so?
 
So I think it's the source of the problem.
 
user1646075
go on...
 
He objected to your message and you thought he was calling you a murderer or something and then became defensive, against something you openly admit to agree with.
And then, as you said, "things got nasty".
 
user1646075
7:42 AM
yes, with you so far
 
user1646075
and ....
 
That was when you two started talking past each other.
 
user1646075
yes, it was beyond hope almost from the start.
 
No, it was not.
 
user1646075
please enlighten me as to how it should have been resolved.
 
7:43 AM
Good morning (evening for Adrian)
 
user1646075
morning. Stand by
 
user1646075
seriously, I'm curious to know how this conflict could have been avoided or resolved in your opinion.
 
A simple "yeah that was in poor taste" (as you said above) after he called it "tasteless" would have worked better than attempting to defend a position you don't agree with.
Jalf thinks trivializing things like that has a negative impact. I doubt he thinks you're a murderer or actually want someone dead.
 
user1646075
well, see, i don't think I was trying to defend that position. But I was being cheeky and dismissive about him choosing to be nanny to us, at first, and for him to think we needed correction. My personal approach would have been to engage later, more gently, and more leadingly if i felt someone really had a poor stance on something.
 
user1646075
hence my claim that he mis-managed. Maybe for him, that is good management. I'll let the results speak for themselves
 
user1646075
7:49 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes this is interesting ..... because
 
You do know that being cheeky and dismissive is what made him angry, right?
(Attacking his character, as in "dare to be a complex human being", doesn't help either, especially if you think he was angry by then)
 
Hello
 
user1646075
I think that it is fair and worthwhile to sometimes address the dark side, at least to allow some sort of understanding, some sort of refreshing of humanity, because you can realise, yes, although that's a simple primitive response, we need to be civilised. I never burn someone for facing the darkness
 
Today my operating systems professor said "C is better used than C++ to study operating systems as it's more powerful". Is there any element of truth in that statement?
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes sure, now I do. Some people react that way, some don't, Once again, if we were all around a table, I know that I most likely wouldn't have picked teh wrnog approach with hhim, because I'd have been able to see him more clearly.
 
user1646075
7:52 AM
some people have a moment of insight and pull themselves up, and connection is again made.
 
@Celeritas No. There’s very little you can do in C that you cannot in C++. (Which is not to say that C++ would always be preferable to C for teaching such a class though.)
 
Fait enough. I was concerned mostly with the way you painted the way it turned out as being his fault.
It takes two to tango, etc.
 
Is there a chance you misunderstood the professor?
 
FWIW, I make similar jokes all the time.
 
user1646075
having this chance to vent about his position is allowing me to feel more forgiving to him. I know where he's coming from. Just re-reading and seeing jefffry's apparent small-h homophobic stance, for example, makes me feel some concern. If jefff is shit-stirring that's one t hing, but otherwise, I'm not going to beat on him - I might, however, address his position, softly at times...
 
7:55 AM
I don't think I misunderstood, he said it has to do with historic reasons that operating systems are written in C because it's more powerful than C++. I guess it's true that more OSs were written in C but maybe because C++ wasn't invented yet.
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes definitely. and reference back to the internet being only words, and very difficult to interpret feels though it. THAT misreading also goes both ways here.
 
I should go to work now.
 
user1646075
enjoy! I think we've cleared some air? How are you feelign right now, if i may ask?
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wait, didn't you say your vacation already started?
 

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